/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2015-02-28 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Feb 28 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:01] <TabAtkins> shepazu: That was about styling arbitrary spans of text? Yeah, something like that.
  4. # [00:04] <shepazu> TabAtkins, and what the spec this sort of thing is defined in?
  5. # [00:05] <TabAtkins> Pseudo-Elements, probably.
  6. # [00:08] <shepazu> TabAtkins, this one? http://www.w3.org/TR/css-pseudo-4/
  7. # [00:08] <Ms2ger> LolTR/
  8. # [00:10] <shepazu> Ms2ger, blame google, not me
  9. # [00:11] <shepazu> don't be a hater
  10. # [00:11] <plinss> in this case, /TR is actually up to date
  11. # [00:12] <shepazu> who's going to be editing the JS interface for that, plinss?
  12. # [00:13] <plinss> presumably the spec editors
  13. # [00:14] * shepazu needs to find the minutes where it was discussed, I guess
  14. # [00:14] <shepazu> later!
  15. # [00:28] <TabAtkins> shepazu: yes
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  26. # [04:09] <fantasai> plinss: Is there a way to have the commit messages from pull requests be the actual commit message? Maybe concatenate them all if there's multiple, but "pull request #X" isn't very useful in the logs.
  27. # [04:10] * fantasai doesn't really understand how the git<->hg mirroring works, but this seems like a flaw in the mirroring concept
  28. # [04:20] <shepazu> fantasai, I have a question about pseudo-classes and javascript
  29. # [04:20] <shepazu> if you have time
  30. # [04:26] <shepazu> at TPAC, Tab gave me some advice about "registering named ranges" in CSS...something like this: window.CSS.namedRanges.set("foo", [rangeObject, ...]);
  31. # [04:27] <shepazu> but I don't know where that was agreed upon
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  37. # [05:16] <shepazu> astearns, ping
  38. # [05:55] <fantasai> shepazu: No, we didn't formally discuss it IIRC
  39. # [05:56] <fantasai> shepazu: the idea's been tossed around
  40. # [05:56] <fantasai> shepazu: as a generalization of ::selection, if I'm understanding correctly
  41. # [05:56] <fantasai> shepazu: Based on what's in the spec right now, it'd take the form ::highlight(<identifier>)
  42. # [05:57] <fantasai> shepazu: You'd want the interface to have some ability to order the named ranges
  43. # [05:58] <fantasai> shepazu: since types of highlights are an ordered set (for painting order reasons)
  44. # [05:58] <fantasai> shepazu: By default, I'd order it in the order set, that's the most likely to be helpful
  45. # [05:58] <fantasai> shepazu: since people can easily control that without arguing over indexes
  46. # [05:59] <fantasai> shepazu: in that case you'd want to be able to modify a named range
  47. # [05:59] <fantasai> shepazu: so that you could set it empty, and then set it to some DOM range, then set it to a different DOM range, then set it to nothing again...
  48. # [05:59] <fantasai> shepazu: without affecting the order
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  50. # [06:03] <shepazu> fantasai, ok, thanks for the info
  51. # [06:03] <fantasai> np
  52. # [06:03] <fantasai> shepazu: Work on the formatting model is being done for ::selection in css-pseudo
  53. # [06:03] <fantasai> shepazu: it will have the same model
  54. # [06:04] <fantasai> shepazu: which is an extremely limited set of rendering adjustments
  55. # [06:04] <shepazu> fantasai, this one? http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-pseudo-4/
  56. # [06:04] <fantasai> yep
  57. # [06:04] <shepazu> k
  58. # [06:04] <shepazu> can I help?
  59. # [06:04] <shepazu> fantasai, btw, http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-pseudo-4/#selectordef-after is wrong
  60. # [06:05] <fantasai> haha
  61. # [06:05] <fantasai> it sure is
  62. # [06:05] <shepazu> :D
  63. # [06:07] <shepazu> fantasai, I'd like to help with this aspect of the spec
  64. # [06:07] <liam> mmm range algebras
  65. # [06:07] <fantasai> shepazu: Okay. Figure out what needs fixing and propose how to fix it :P
  66. # [06:07] <fantasai> shepazu: The goal is to finish up what's in the draft right now, and have that be L3
  67. # [06:08] <fantasai> shepazu: custom ranges will be in the next level
  68. # [06:08] <fantasai> er, L4
  69. # [06:08] <shepazu> fantasai, ok, you mean besides having after be before?
  70. # [06:08] <shepazu> :P
  71. # [06:08] * fantasai keeps forgetting Selectors L3 already hit rec
  72. # [06:08] <fantasai> shepazu: yeah. Cuz I just fixed that one :)
  73. # [06:08] <shepazu> fantasai, then in that case, I think I want to help on L4
  74. # [06:08] <fantasai> shepazu: you mean L5
  75. # [06:08] <fantasai> ?
  76. # [06:09] <shepazu> oh, I see
  77. # [06:09] <shepazu> yes
  78. # [06:09] <shepazu> is that in draft anywhere?
  79. # [06:09] <fantasai> nope
  80. # [06:09] <fantasai> We can make a section on it, with a note that it's expected to move to L5
  81. # [06:10] <fantasai> But draw up a solid proposal first
  82. # [06:10] <fantasai> and post it to www-style
  83. # [06:10] <shepazu> fantasai, in the CSS WG, does each level repeat and build on what the earlier level specs?
  84. # [06:10] <fantasai> Also, if you can review the OM section that'd be great
  85. # [06:10] <fantasai> shepazu: yes
  86. # [06:10] <shepazu> k
  87. # [06:10] <fantasai> shepazu: Although we maintain diff specs until the previous level stabilizes enough that we don't worry about backporting fixes
  88. # [06:10] <shepazu> I'm concerned that I don't know the preferred nomenclature
  89. # [06:11] <shepazu> but I'll try to draw something up
  90. # [06:11] <shepazu> it might take me a while to get up to speed
  91. # [06:11] * fantasai not worried about that
  92. # [06:11] * fantasai worried about describing the rendering of this thing in a way that makes sense
  93. # [06:11] <fantasai> The things blocking here are
  94. # [06:11] <fantasai> a) have a sane description of ::selection rendering, right now it's a pretty terrible rough draft
  95. # [06:12] <fantasai> b) Clean up all of the ::first-line/::first-letter definitions, which are sad
  96. # [06:12] <fantasai> c) Review / improve the CSSOM section
  97. # [06:12] <fantasai> d) Add more examples
  98. # [06:12] <fantasai> I've no clue about the OM section
  99. # [06:12] <liam> hmm, getting a provincial government property/tax statement, the pop-up said, "formatted using PRINCEXML software"
  100. # [06:14] <shepazu> fantasai, ok, that's a good list
  101. # [06:14] <shepazu> I'll see what I can do
  102. # [06:14] <fantasai> Help with c) would be great
  103. # [06:15] <fantasai> I suspect you don't have the background knowledge for a) or b), but you can give it a shot if you want
  104. # [06:15] <fantasai> I know you can help with c) or d), though :)
  105. # [06:18] * fantasai is terrible about examples
  106. # [06:18] <fantasai> jdaggett writes really good ones.
  107. # [06:18] <fantasai> If I spent a day pretending to be jdaggett while writing examples, I'd have a much nicer spec.
  108. # [06:19] * fantasai however has not ever put aside the time for such roleplaying
  109. # [06:22] <shepazu> fantasai, I think since he lives in Japan, that would be cosplay
  110. # [06:22] <shepazu> maybe you should dress like him
  111. # [06:22] <shepazu> method acting
  112. # [06:23] <shepazu> I would like to come up to speed on A) and B), but I'm happy to help with C), especially if you can point me to some good jdaggett examples
  113. # [06:23] <shepazu> wait, I mean, D)
  114. # [06:23] <shepazu> I can also help with C)
  115. # [06:24] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-text-3/#letter-spacing-property
  116. # [06:24] <fantasai> I'm not sure how much that helps
  117. # [06:24] <fantasai> I'm not sure how to bring you up to speed on a)
  118. # [06:25] <fantasai> given that I also need to be brought up to speed on a)
  119. # [06:25] <fantasai> b) involves a deep understanding of the cascading model
  120. # [06:25] <fantasai> Best I can offer is pointers to css-cascade and css-scoping
  121. # [06:25] <fantasai> and of course, reading the existing text that needs cleanup
  122. # [06:26] <fantasai> anyway, I'm going to go see about catching the train
  123. # [06:26] <fantasai> since I can't stay here much longer
  124. # [06:26] <fantasai> (this place is actually closed)
  125. # [06:27] <shepazu> nn
  126. # [06:35] <astearns> shepazu: pong
  127. # [06:35] <shepazu> hi, astearns
  128. # [06:36] <shepazu> I had a good long talk about my question with fantasai
  129. # [06:36] <astearns> Ah, OK
  130. # [06:36] <shepazu> but there's some other stuff, about the JS / OM aspect
  131. # [06:37] <astearns> OM for pseudos?
  132. # [06:37] <shepazu> basically, I have a need to style ranges, which would be like ::selection, and to "register" ranges in script
  133. # [06:37] <shepazu> at TPAC, Tab gave me some advice about "registering named ranges" in CSS...something like this: window.CSS.namedRanges.set("foo", [rangeObject, ...]);
  134. # [06:38] <shepazu> astearns, and I was wondering the best way to go about this, what the right terminology is, and how I can help
  135. # [06:39] <astearns> Hmm, at the Houdini meeting people were unhappy about building out more functionality on top of ranges
  136. # [06:40] <astearns> They didn't like the live aspect of ranges
  137. # [06:40] <shepazu> astearns, hmm, who was unhappy?
  138. # [06:40] <astearns> How do you think the named ranges would/should react to changes?
  139. # [06:41] <astearns> (Typing slowly on a phone)
  140. # [06:42] <shepazu> astearns, interesting question. depends on what kind of changes, changes to the range, or to the context the range is in? and are there minutes from that meeting?
  141. # [06:42] <astearns> Several people suggested static DeadRange for any new development
  142. # [06:43] <astearns> There are minutes, but I think there needs to be some list discussion on this
  143. # [06:43] <shepazu> static ranges might be fine for me, but I'd need to know more details
  144. # [06:44] * shepazu is fearful of the CSS list firehose
  145. # [06:44] <astearns> If the endpoint of a named range is deleted, then the named range could either be invalid or truncated
  146. # [06:44] <astearns> The Houdini list might be more hospitable to craziness like this ;)
  147. # [06:45] <shepazu> houdini list?
  148. # [06:46] <astearns> Search the public archive list for Houdini. I think it's css-Houdini
  149. # [06:47] <shepazu> k
  150. # [06:47] <shepazu> thanks!
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  153. # [07:20] <astearns> ah, no - it's public-houdini https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-houdini/
  154. # [07:21] <astearns> shepazu: ^
  155. # [07:21] <shepazu> astearns, thanks!
  156. # [07:22] <astearns> and SimonSapin's post about the meeting has links to the IRC logs: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev-servo@lists.mozilla.org/msg01131.html
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  160. # [07:52] <liam> yeah, i still haven't finished reading the logs
  161. # [07:53] <liam> which is a pain ebcasue houdini seems close to a route towards the reason why i joined the css wg in the first place, to try & get css up to the level of xsl-fo for books
  162. # [08:03] * Joins: gregwhitworth (~gregwhitworth@public.cloak)
  163. # [08:03] * fantasai waves to jdaggett
  164. # [08:04] <fantasai> Somebody asked me on twitter about my invoicing methods today. I kindof want to write a blog post now to demonstrate that they're insane and no one in their right mind would copy me.
  165. # [08:04] <jdaggett> hmmm, shouldn't you be in bed...
  166. # [08:05] <fantasai> you are right, I should be in bed...
  167. # [08:05] <jdaggett> heh
  168. # [08:05] * fantasai was just catching up on scrollback
  169. # [08:05] <jdaggett> girls are at swim class, enjoying a quiet house... :P
  170. # [08:05] <fantasai> :P
  171. # [08:05] <fantasai> my place... is always quiet
  172. # [08:06] * fantasai needs to find roommates
  173. # [08:06] * fantasai is not a person who is happy living alone
  174. # [08:07] <fantasai> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20150228#l-93
  175. # [08:08] <gregwhitworth> Does anyone know how to see a changelog of WHATWG specs?
  176. # [08:08] <gregwhitworth> Or view older versions of the same spec on WHATWG?
  177. # [08:08] <fantasai> I should also document my Ion3 config. That might actually be useful to someone.
  178. # [08:09] <fantasai> Given people's obsession with GitHub lately, I'd check there.
  179. # [08:10] <jdaggett> roommates == goodness
  180. # [08:10] <jdaggett> roommates with strange pets == funkaville
  181. # [08:10] <jdaggett> be careful what you wish for...
  182. # [08:11] <fantasai> heh
  183. # [08:11] <fantasai> my last experience with roommates' pets was a cat who thought he was a dog
  184. # [08:12] <TabAtkins> gregwhitworth: Ugh,you left respimg but stayed here. >_<
  185. # [08:12] <gregwhitworth> lol
  186. # [08:12] <TabAtkins> gregwhitworth: The spec should link to its version history in the header. If it doesn't, yell at the spec author.
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  189. # [08:16] <gregwhitworth> hmmmm, I'm looking here: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/embedded-content.html#adaptive-images
  190. # [08:17] <gregwhitworth> I see the changelist for HTML on the root
  191. # [08:17] <gregwhitworth> but nothing more specific for this section, and I'm sure there have been sizes and srcset changes
  192. # [08:17] <gregwhitworth> Those are not listed in the HTML root changelist
  193. # [08:18] <TabAtkins> Ask zcorpan about that; the setup with the picture section is weird.
  194. # [08:19] <gregwhitworth> ok, thanks
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  230. # [19:18] <shepazu> hmmm.... who is esprehn in the CSS minutes?
  231. # [19:20] <shepazu> plinss, yt?
  232. # [19:21] <plinss> yes
  233. # [19:21] <shepazu> plinss, sorry I'm arriving so late, we can hang out tomorrow, too
  234. # [19:22] <plinss> no problem
  235. # [19:22] <plinss> fantasai: the pull request mechanism is entirely on the github side, not much I can do about it’s commit messages
  236. # [19:23] <shepazu> plinss, who is esprehn?
  237. # [19:23] <plinss> not sure, context?
  238. # [19:24] <shepazu> plinss: http://log.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/houdini/2015-02-07/#e518187
  239. # [19:26] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  240. # [19:26] <plinss> I believe that’s Ojan Vafai
  241. # [19:26] <plinss> from Google
  242. # [19:27] <plinss> http://log.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/houdini/2015-02-07/#e518002
  243. # [19:28] <shepazu> hmmm, I'm not sure, because they are both referenced in one message: http://log.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/houdini/2015-02-07/#e518205
  244. # [19:30] <Ms2ger> * [esprehn] (sid10445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-szvtprkqnroofrbh): Elliott Sprehn
  245. # [19:30] <shepazu> TabAtkins, do you know who esprehn (possibly from Google) is?
  246. # [19:31] <plinss> right, sorry, it’s Elliott Sprehn
  247. # [19:31] <shepazu> Elliott Sprehn
  248. # [19:31] <shepazu> hah
  249. # [19:35] <shepazu> thanks, guys
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  254. # [21:33] <fantasai> plinss: Figured it out, nm. Was seeing the merge commit instead of the actual commit.
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