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- # Session Start: Wed Apr 01 00:00:01 2015
- # Session Ident: #css
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- # [00:39] <shepazu> leaverou, any chance you can make the 2pm time this Friday? right now it's a choice between you and Greg Whitworth, and I'd rather you were both there
- # [00:55] * plinss changes topic to 'Agenda confcall 2015-04-01 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Mar/0557.html'
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- # [01:31] <myles> hello hober
- # [01:32] <hober> myles: hi
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- # [09:20] <Florian> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/ is down
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- # [09:21] <Florian> Proxy Error
- # [09:21] <Florian> The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
- # [09:21] <Florian> The proxy server could not handle the request GET /csswg/css-egg/.
- # [09:21] <Florian> Reason: DNS lookup failure for: drafts.csswg.org
- # [09:21] <Florian> Apache/2.2.22 (Debian) Server at dev.w3.org Port 80
- # [09:23] <Florian> it's back
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- # [09:48] <Florian> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-egg/ stuck on bikeshed pending...
- # [09:55] <Florian> fixed. took about 15 minutes to generate...
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- # [10:08] <SimonSapin> Florian: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/pull/15
- # [10:10] <Florian> merged. (now let's just pray that bikeshed doesn't take yet another half hour to update)
- # [10:11] <SimonSapin> I started using the Edit button, but I wasn’t sure how the hg bridge deals with non-master branches in w3c/csswg-drafts
- # [10:17] <Florian> merged branches should be fine. The rest I don't know.
- # [10:17] <Florian> (and bikeshed is taking forever :(
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- # [10:28] <Florian> plinss: +1 to the feature request by SimonSapin from a while back about not showing the "bikeshed pending" page and instead showing the old version until regeneration is done.
- # [10:32] <Florian> 20+ minutes...
- # [10:33] <Florian> is it really taking that long, or does the server need to be kicked in some way?
- # [10:36] <Florian> back up.
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- # [14:02] * Topic is 'Agenda confcall 2015-04-01 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Mar/0557.html'
- # [14:02] * Set by plinss on Wed Apr 01 00:51:41
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- # [17:10] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/01-css-irc
- # [17:10] <glazou> Zakim, this will be STyle
- # [17:10] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 53 minutes
- # [17:11] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
- # [17:11] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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- # [17:38] <glazou> welcome myles
- # [17:38] <myles> thanks glazou!
- # [17:38] <glazou> and sorry again for the late announcement
- # [17:39] <myles> no problem :)
- # [17:55] * liam Florian++
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- # [17:57] * Florian is not sure how to increment himself
- # [17:58] * liam liked the timbl but not sure you can add fortnight-based units without also adding furlongs.
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- # [18:00] * gsnedders wonders what a "CSS timbl" is
- # [18:00] * dauwhe liam: font-weight: 14stone
- # [18:01] <Florian> liam: You have a valid point. But I think we should not just strive for theoretical consistency, and need to consider use cases first.
- # [18:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- # [18:01] <Florian> liam: but if you have some, please send to www-style. I can look it up after the call.
- # [18:01] * gsnedders wonders if it's the speed of timbl's speech when delayed to a standardised rate
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +dauwhe
- # [18:01] * liam :)
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +??P14
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +??P17
- # [18:01] <zcorpan> Zakim, ??P14 is me
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +zcorpan; got it
- # [18:01] <glazou> Zakim, ??P17 isme
- # [18:01] <Zakim> I don't understand '??P17 isme', glazou
- # [18:01] <zcorpan> Zakim, mute me
- # [18:01] <Zakim> zcorpan should now be muted
- # [18:01] <glazou> Zakim, ??P17 is me
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [18:02] <glazou> plinss: dael sent regrets, we’ll need a scribe
- # [18:02] <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aaaa
- # [18:02] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
- # [18:02] <astearns> zakim, aaaa is me
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +astearns; got it
- # [18:02] <Zakim> + +1.479.764.aabb
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +plinss
- # [18:02] <Florian> Zakim, I am probably aabb
- # [18:02] <Zakim> I don't understand 'I am probably aabb', Florian
- # [18:03] <Florian> Zakim, I am aabb
- # [18:03] <Zakim> +Florian; got it
- # [18:03] * Joins: bcampbell (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
- # [18:03] * sanja has troubles with her audio settings, Lync is being nasty. will join the call a few mins too late
- # [18:03] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
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- # [18:04] <bcampbell> Zakim [IPcaller] is me
- # [18:04] <zcorpan> Zakim, unmute me
- # [18:04] <Zakim> zcorpan should no longer be muted
- # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.631.398.aacc
- # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Apple]
- # [18:04] <zcorpan> Zakim, mute me
- # [18:04] <Zakim> zcorpan should now be muted
- # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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- # [18:05] <gregwhitworth> Zakim, Microsoft is me
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +gregwhitworth; got it
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +??P38
- # [18:05] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P38 is me
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
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- # [18:05] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg]
- # [18:06] <Zakim> + +43.134.001.00aadd
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
- # [18:06] <sanja> Zakim, aadd is me.
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +sanja; got it
- # [18:06] <alex_antennahouse> im ipcaller a
- # [18:07] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
- # [18:07] <Zakim> +dbaron
- # [18:08] <Zakim> +??P20
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- # [18:09] <Zakim> +BradK
- # [18:09] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P20 is me
- # [18:09] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
- # [18:09] <SimonSapin> I think
- # [18:09] <Zakim> +??P53
- # [18:09] <tantek> zakim, ??p53 is me
- # [18:09] <Zakim> +tantek; got it
- # [18:10] <tantek> zakim, mute me
- # [18:10] <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
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- # [18:10] * dauwhe LOL
- # [18:10] <Zakim> +Bert
- # [18:10] <glazou> florian: css-egg?
- # [18:10] <glazou> ScribeNick: glazou
- # [18:11] * tantek egg? I thought sheep was the logo.
- # [18:11] <Zakim> +fantasai
- # [18:11] <glazou> plinss: first topic, TPAC? pick dates
- # [18:11] <glazou> plinss: first part of week ok ?
- # [18:11] <SimonSapin> tantek, http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-egg/
- # [18:11] * dauwhe Monday-Tuesday is good
- # [18:11] <tantek> zakim, unmute me
- # [18:11] <Zakim> tantek should no longer be muted
- # [18:11] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
- # [18:12] <glazou> tantek: I’ll be chairing a WG myself and will try to avoid overlap
- # [18:12] <Bert> (I'll be there the whole week anyway, so no pref.)
- # [18:12] * Joins: BradK (~bradk@public.cloak)
- # [18:12] <glazou> glazou: let’s stick to mon-wed
- # [18:12] <glazou> Florian: agreed
- # [18:12] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
- # [18:12] <glazou> tantek: sunday too ?
- # [18:12] <glazou> plinss: not for now
- # [18:12] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (36%), plinss (60%), tantek (12%)
- # [18:12] <glazou> plinss: we’ll see
- # [18:13] <glazou> plinss: involves W3C planning and spaces
- # [18:13] <BradK> Zakim, who is here?
- # [18:13] <Zakim> On the phone I see dauwhe, zcorpan (muted), glazou, astearns, Florian, plinss, [IPcaller], +1.631.398.aacc, [Apple], gregwhitworth, [Bloomberg], sanja, [IPcaller.a], dbaron,
- # [18:13] <glazou> plinss: next topic, box sizing
- # [18:13] <Zakim> ... SimonSapin, BradK, tantek, Bert, fantasai
- # [18:13] <Zakim> On IRC I see BradK, arronei, alex_antennahouse, arybka, gregwhitworth, bcampbell, tantek, zcorpan, antenna, myles, Florian, RRSAgent, Zakim, dauwhe, sanja, dbaron, svillar, hgl,
- # [18:13] <Zakim> ... Ms2ger, lajava, Bert, dwim, liam, plh, rego, fantasai, sylvaing, projector, rbyers, lmclister______, stryx`, Hixie, shans, SimonSapin, decadance, paul___irish, achicu_____,
- # [18:13] <Zakim> ... gsnedders, plinss, logbot, ed, panzana`, Rossen, leaverou, CSSWG_LogBot, ato, koji, ElijahLynn, iank, slightlyoff, sgalineau, amtiskaw, dstockwell, astearns, mvujovic______,
- # [18:13] <Zakim> ... shane
- # [18:13] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Feb/0445.html
- # [18:13] <tantek> latest message on: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Mar/0405.html
- # [18:13] <glazou> florian: no feedback
- # [18:13] <glazou> tantek: thread with fantasai and tab
- # [18:13] <Zakim> +??P58
- # [18:13] <glazou> Florian: right but nothing else
- # [18:13] <glazou> tantek: would like to move forward with this ASAP
- # [18:14] * Joins: dj2 (~dj2@public.cloak)
- # [18:14] <glazou> tantek: still some issues where you agree with tab but…
- # [18:14] * Joins: vollick (~vollick@public.cloak)
- # [18:14] <glazou> Florian: a couple wording points I agree with Elika
- # [18:14] <glazou> Florian: one diff between browsers I did not see when I spec’d that
- # [18:14] <zcorpan> Zakim, who is noisy?
- # [18:14] <glazou> tantek: the IE difference ?
- # [18:14] <glazou> Florian: yes
- # [18:14] <Zakim> zcorpan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (14%), Florian (100%), plinss (15%), tantek (10%)
- # [18:15] <glazou> Florian: IE returns the content width whil others return the width
- # [18:15] <glazou> Florian: I think I agree with not-IE here
- # [18:15] <glazou> gregwhitworth: we just got some edits on that this week
- # [18:15] <tantek> this example:
- # [18:16] <tantek> <div id="d" style="box-sizing:border-box; position:absolute; padding: 10px;"></div>
- # [18:16] <tantek> <script>console.log(getComputedStyle(document.getElementById("d")).width);</script>
- # [18:16] <tantek> Firefox/Chrome/Safari/Presto --> 20px
- # [18:16] <glazou> Florian: ok, I will update the text then
- # [18:16] <tantek> IE --> 0px
- # [18:16] <glazou> Florian: my prose is probably correct although not elegants
- # [18:16] <gregwhitworth> yeah, we don't want that since custom layouts will need interop
- # [18:16] <glazou> tantek: I can help with that
- # [18:16] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak)
- # [18:17] <glazou> Florian: 2.1 is ambiguous here
- # [18:17] <glazou> Florian: elika suggested dealing with input and output
- # [18:17] <glazou> Florian: please help if you can
- # [18:17] <glazou> tantek: ok
- # [18:17] * fantasai would also like to review the new wording
- # [18:17] <glazou> Florian: I need reviews from implementors
- # [18:18] <glazou> tantek: we already gave 3 weeks
- # [18:18] <glazou> tantek: we heard from tab and elika
- # [18:18] <glazou> tantek: nothing from others, including msft excluded what greg just said
- # [18:18] <glazou> tantek: greg, did you review the rest of proposed text?
- # [18:18] <glazou> gregwhitworth: unfortunately no
- # [18:18] * fantasai really doesn't want to monkey-patch 2.1
- # [18:19] * fantasai is pretty sure that'll create bugs in all of our specs
- # [18:19] <glazou> Florian: my proposal was posted end of feb, ahem
- # [18:19] <glazou> tantek: I’d like to suggest you go ahead, make the changes
- # [18:19] <glazou> tantek: make the change explicit in the text
- # [18:19] <glazou> tantek: and ship
- # [18:20] <glazou> Florian: eliak mentions not being happy about monkey-patching 2.1
- # [18:20] <glazou> s/eliak/elika
- # [18:20] <fantasai> s/elika/fantasai/g
- # [18:20] * glazou sorry fantasai
- # [18:20] * fantasai np
- # [18:21] <glazou> tantek: unforrtunately, we take the least worst approach at this time
- # [18:21] * fantasai thinks you should check in the changes, and we can clean it up afterward
- # [18:21] <glazou> tantek: fantasai just said she’s ok with moving fwd the proposal
- # [18:21] <glazou> Florian: let’d do it then
- # [18:22] <glazou> s/let’d/let's
- # [18:22] * fantasai thinks we need to clean it up, but we should start from something more solid than ML discussions
- # [18:22] <glazou> tantek: sounds like a plan
- # [18:22] <glazou> Bert: what exactly needs to change in 2.1
- # [18:22] <glazou> Florian: the sizing section in 2.1 refers ambiguously to the value of the width propertty and the width of the content box because it was the same thing in 2.1
- # [18:23] <glazou> Florian: so no clear how 2.1 works
- # [18:23] <glazou> Florian: I made a clarification about that
- # [18:23] <glazou> Bert: yeah ok thanks
- # [18:23] <glazou> Bert: makes sense
- # [18:23] <glazou> Florian: same thing for height and min-/max- properties
- # [18:24] <glazou> tantek: agreed that if can errata 2.1…
- # [18:24] <glazou> tantek: but probablt better to get a wider review in CSS 3 UI
- # [18:25] <glazou> tantek: taking a wild guess TabAtkins would be ok
- # [18:25] <glazou> tantek: other objections ?
- # [18:25] <glazou> Florian: no objection obviously but I got rare feedback so does it mean nobody reviewed it ?
- # [18:25] <glazou> plinss: wait
- # [18:25] <glazou> plinss: update and ask for WD ?
- # [18:26] <glazou> plinss: hearing no objection
- # [18:26] <fantasai> +1
- # [18:26] <glazou> tantek: publish early publish often
- # [18:26] <glazou> plinss: obj?
- # [18:26] <glazou> RESOLVED: new WD of CSS 3 UI, accepting changes to box-sizing
- # [18:27] <glazou> RESOLVED: then another WD
- # [18:27] <glazou> tantek: the new publishing system was still creashing so we still use the older one
- # [18:27] <glazou> next topic, Motion Path
- # [18:28] <glazou> glazou: shane sent regrets
- # [18:28] <astearns> +1 to fpwd
- # [18:28] <glazou> plinss: objections to FPWD ?
- # [18:28] * shane is here in spirit
- # [18:28] <tantek> Bert, http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-ui-3/ is good to go for WD publication now.
- # [18:28] <glazou> RESOLVED: Motion Path FPWD granted
- # [18:28] <glazou> next topic, WebVTT feedback
- # [18:28] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2015JanMar/0239.html
- # [18:28] <glazou> plinss: anyone having feedback
- # [18:29] <glazou> plinss: ?
- # [18:29] <glazou> astearns: we need to collect what’s in the list and send it ASAP
- # [18:29] <glazou> plinss: fine by me
- # [18:29] <glazou> plinss: anyone nedding more time
- # [18:29] <glazou> Bert: can you do it?
- # [18:30] <glazou> RESOLVED accept feedback coming from mailing-list as WG review
- # [18:30] <glazou> ACTION Bert to collect and send WebVTT feddback
- # [18:30] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [18:30] <trackbot> Created ACTION-677 - Collect and send webvtt feddback [on Bert Bos - due 2015-04-08].
- # [18:30] <glazou> next topic, MQ
- # [18:30] <glazou> Florian: followup of the should/must discussion
- # [18:31] <glazou> Florian: MSFT,w e were waiting for you
- # [18:31] <glazou> gregwhitworth: initial worries about pointer events… and we could not review
- # [18:31] <glazou> Florian: we cand efinitely improve the prose there
- # [18:32] <Zakim> -zcorpan
- # [18:32] <Zakim> +??P7
- # [18:32] <zcorpan> Zakim, ??P7 is me
- # [18:32] <Zakim> +zcorpan; got it
- # [18:32] <zcorpan> Zakim, mute me
- # [18:32] <Zakim> zcorpan should now be muted
- # [18:32] <glazou> gregwhitworth: I don’t have a strong knowledge of that
- # [18:33] <glazou> Florian: with the statement I’m willing to work on your pointers’ concern, we should be ok with the general feeling
- # [18:33] <glazou> plinss: ok with that gregwhitworth or need another week?
- # [18:33] <glazou> gregwhitworth: I’d prefer having time to get internal review but I don’t disagree necessarily with you Florian but
- # [18:34] <glazou> plinss: ok let’s give them another week
- # [18:34] <glazou> DEFERRED to next week: MQ4
- # [18:34] <glazou> next topic, cursor image formats
- # [18:34] * tantek has not had his coffee yet - everyone is talking so fast. ;)
- # [18:34] <glazou> Florian: we were waiting for 2 different answers from MSft
- # [18:35] <glazou> Florian: are you ok with mandating image types, PNG and SVG, must be supported and everything supported as an image must also be as a cursor ?
- # [18:35] <glazou> plinss: rossen sent regrets and mentioned discussions and asked for another week
- # [18:35] <glazou> gregwhitworth: I got in touch with the standards people
- # [18:35] <glazou> gregwhitworth: ball rolling now
- # [18:36] <glazou> gregwhitworth: asked yesterday and they said stuff is in MSDN and they’re investigating legal issues
- # [18:36] <glazou> gregwhitworth: rossen was investigating tech issues and he found nothing at this point
- # [18:36] * shepazu "Everything that is not forbidden is compulsory"
- # [18:36] <glazou> tantek: that’s good
- # [18:36] * shepazu "Everything that is not MUST NOT is MUST"
- # [18:37] <glazou> tantek: one concrete proposal request: would it be possible to contribute the cursor formats as a member contribution?
- # [18:37] <glazou> gregwhitworth: well ok
- # [18:37] <glazou> tantek: MSFT has done it before
- # [18:37] <Florian> +1 to what Tantek said.
- # [18:38] <glazou> glazou: I said it too in www-style
- # [18:38] <glazou> gregwhitworth: will send the suggestion
- # [18:39] <glazou> gregwhitworth: let’s put that on agenda every week
- # [18:39] <glazou> all: :-)
- # [18:39] <glazou> tantek: count on us :-)
- # [18:39] <glazou> next topic, ::marker
- # [18:39] <glazou> plinss: fantasai yt ?
- # [18:40] <Florian> quite a bit of echo
- # [18:40] <zcorpan> Zakim, who is noisy?
- # [18:40] <Zakim> zcorpan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (29%), tantek (53%), fantasai (31%)
- # [18:40] <tantek> "If you found this page, you might be wondering… "(WHAT WAS THAT)
- # [18:40] <glazou> fantasai: xidorn’s message is about font variants
- # [18:41] <glazou> fantasai: we want to add that as a requirement on UAs
- # [18:41] <fantasai> ::marker { font-variant: tabular-nums; }
- # [18:41] <glazou> fantasai: ::marker {font-variant-numeric: tabular-nums;}
- # [18:41] <glazou> fantasai: add it to default stylesheet for better results
- # [18:41] <glazou> Florian: ok
- # [18:41] <glazou> Bert: you can still override it
- # [18:41] <glazou> fantasai: yes
- # [18:41] <glazou> Bert: ok fine
- # [18:42] <glazou> RESOLVED add the ::marker rule above to the default stylesheet
- # [18:42] <glazou> next topic, intrinsic sizes and multicol elements
- # [18:42] <fantasai> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Mar/0333.html
- # [18:42] <glazou> fantasai: rossen reported an error in one of the bullets
- # [18:43] <sanja> fantasai: so basically we're looking at the intrinsic sizes of multicolumn element
- # [18:44] * glazou sorry folks, sound terrible here when fantasai speaks
- # [18:44] * glazou captures only 60% of what fantasai says
- # [18:44] * Florian it's a bit difficult here as well, but I can mostly follow.
- # [18:44] <glazou> ScribeNick: sanja
- # [18:45] <sanja> column-count, column-widht, try to set as many columns as you can, it will try to give you ... (talking about cases) ... column-widht, specify height on the element, the columns will fill down and it will overflow on the next side
- # [18:45] * sanja hopes that is correct, some stuff missing, not used to scribing
- # [18:45] <sanja> fantasai: ... so the minimum is the number of columns multiplied by the minimum or maximum size of the content
- # [18:46] * Florian sanja this specific bit is particularly difficult.
- # [18:46] <Florian> q+
- # [18:46] * Zakim sees Florian on the speaker queue
- # [18:46] * glazou #fantasai { voice-rate: 0.1timbl}
- # [18:47] * Florian it's specced as "tmbl" not "timbl"
- # [18:47] <sanja> fantasai: take the min content but max out at the width of the column (is all I got that makes sense without tons of ...)
- # [18:47] * glazou Florian you need aliases then
- # [18:47] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
- # [18:48] * astearns summarizing the email is useful why?
- # [18:48] <fantasai> fantasai: col-width + col-count case
- # [18:48] * tantek WG member, scribe thyself. ;)
- # [18:48] <dbaron> I strongly disagree with the height case.
- # [18:48] * glazou we’re not equal in front of Zakim
- # [18:48] <fantasai> fantasai: The last case is controversial
- # [18:49] <fantasai> fantasai: Don't think we can get resolution on it
- # [18:49] * sanja nah, I just have an awesome gamer headset that captures fantasai perfectly
- # [18:49] <dbaron> It would take me half an hour to load this stuff into my head again; I don't know if this is the same as what the proposal was the last time fantasai and I discussed it.
- # [18:49] <fantasai> florian: I think Morten's position is probably right, since he's usually right
- # [18:49] <fantasai> fantasai: He didn't have anything much to say except for the last case.
- # [18:50] <Florian> (in general, and specifically about multicol)
- # [18:50] * glazou wants the headset sanja has
- # [18:50] <fantasai> fantasai: I would like to get a resolution on the first three. happy to discuss on ML, but would like to know whose reviews to wait for
- # [18:50] <zcorpan> i can ask morten for opinions about those
- # [18:50] <astearns> agree with getting Morten's opinion
- # [18:50] * sanja no. my preciousss.
- # [18:51] <fantasai> plinss: Anyone?
- # [18:51] <fantasai> [silence]
- # [18:51] <fantasai> Bert: not sure I understand anything, but I suspect height shouldn't have an influence here
- # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: last case is what happens if you have col-width + height
- # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: some impl use intrinsic size as col-width
- # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: resulting one column
- # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: for the width of the multicol element
- # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: when you fill it with the content
- # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: more columns are generated
- # [18:52] <fantasai> fantasai: and the content overflows to the side
- # [18:53] <fantasai> fantasai: the goal of the proposal was to ahve the intrinsic width be large enough to fit all of the content
- # [18:53] <fantasai> fantasai: because that's what an intrinsic width usually does, that is its goal
- # [18:53] <fantasai> fantasai: the problem with this is it requires layout
- # [18:54] <fantasai> fantasai: except for multicol and orthogonal flows, we don't require layout for finding intrinsic inline-size
- # [18:54] <fantasai> fantasai: that would avoid overflow
- # [18:54] <fantasai> fantasai: so layout engines are unhappy that they would have to do layout
- # [18:55] <fantasai> Bert: Don't think I can have an opinion in 5 min
- # [18:55] <fantasai> Bert: But looks pretty straightforward
- # [18:55] <fantasai> plinss: Maybe get a resolution on first 3
- # [18:55] <fantasai> fantasai: Chrome is the only one that would need to change, since IE and Firefox agree on those
- # [18:56] <fantasai> plinss: No one from Chrome, come back next week
- # [18:57] <fantasai> [discussion of what to discuss]
- # [18:57] <glazou> ScribeNick: glazou
- # [18:57] * Joins: johanneswilm (~johannes@public.cloak)
- # [18:57] <glazou> next topic, selectors 4
- # [18:57] <glazou> dbaron: needs tab
- # [18:57] <fantasai> Topic: Baselines of inline blocks
- # [18:57] <dbaron> (if it needs teleconference time at all)
- # [18:57] <glazou> next topic, Baselines of inline blocks
- # [18:57] <Florian> welcome
- # [18:57] * dauwhe hello!
- # [18:57] <fantasai> Miles, from Apple
- # [18:57] <tantek> Welcome Miles!
- # [18:57] <glazou> ScribeNick: fantasai
- # [18:57] <glazou> s/Miles/Myles
- # [18:57] <fantasai> miles: Proposal is regarding inline block elements
- # [18:57] <fantasai> miles: Spec says if you have overflow: hidden;, you use the bottom of the block
- # [18:58] <fantasai> miles: Would prefer the baseline of the last line or bottom of block, whichever is higher
- # [18:58] <fantasai> miles: If you have without overflow: hidden, then use baseline of text
- # [18:58] <glazou> s/miles/myles/g
- # [18:58] <fantasai> miles: if you add overflow: hidden, the baseline jumps up
- # [18:58] <astearns> I like this change. fewer surprises
- # [18:58] <fantasai> myles: Putting overflow: hidden shouldnt' cause it to jump around like this
- # [18:59] <dbaron> I'm fine with this change as long as it's based on the initial scroll position, and that overflow auto/hidden/scroll are consistent.
- # [18:59] <fantasai> myles: So would like to change baseline of the inline-block to be whichever is higher, last baseline or bottom of block
- # [18:59] <fantasai> Florian: I'm fine with the proposal, but is it Web-compatible?
- # [18:59] <fantasai> myles: Currently all browsers except WebKit implement the spec
- # [18:59] <fantasai> myles: WebKit has shipped this behavior for many releases?
- # [18:59] <fantasai> dbaron: I'm fine with this. We get bugs about this at a decent frequency, so I think the current behavior does bug people
- # [19:00] <fantasai> dbaron: I'm fine as long as we define it as initial scroll position
- # [19:00] <fantasai> dbaron: And also if all of overflow: hidden / scroll are affected
- # [19:00] <tantek> sounds like an improvement to me too. assuming web-compat.
- # [19:00] * fantasai agrees
- # [19:00] <fantasai> fantasai: By "bottom of box" do you mean the content-box, border-box, padding-box, margin-box?
- # [19:01] <fantasai> Florian: The content-box?
- # [19:01] <fantasai> fantasai: scrollable area is the padding-box
- # [19:01] <fantasai> myles: spec right now says bottom margin edge
- # [19:01] <fantasai> myles: That part I'm not proposing changin
- # [19:01] <fantasai> fantasai: That's kindof weird then, because you might have a baseline that you can't see that it's aligning to
- # [19:02] <fantasai> dbaron: I think the margin edge is used to make it behave like a replaced element, since those baseline-align to their bottom margin edge as well
- # [19:02] <Zakim> -??P58
- # [19:02] <fantasai> myles: Boris and Tab have said this is a reasonable thing to do
- # [19:02] <Zakim> -zcorpan
- # [19:03] <fantasai> Florian: Since alinging to baseline, maybe should be base don whether baseline is visible
- # [19:03] * zcorpan dropped off but i suppose it's not worth calling in again
- # [19:04] <fantasai> fantasai: Wouldn't that cause a jump? If I increase the font size by 3px and [...]
- # [19:05] <fantasai> Florian: No, I meant take lower of baseline or padding-box.
- # [19:05] <dbaron> fantasai: We should take Myles's proposal, and then maybe try to change margin-box to padding-box later depending on Web compat.
- # [19:05] <fantasai> fantasai: Okay. I think that definitely makes more sense, if the idea is to align to the content.
- # [19:05] <fantasai> fantasai: But [see dbaron's script]
- # [19:05] <fantasai> plinss: Do we have a resolution?
- # [19:05] <fantasai> [...]
- # [19:05] <Florian> s/lower of/higher of/
- # [19:05] <Zakim> -dbaron
- # [19:05] <Zakim> -astearns
- # [19:06] <Zakim> -gregwhitworth
- # [19:06] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [19:06] <Zakim> -BradK
- # [19:06] <Zakim> -dauwhe
- # [19:06] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
- # [19:06] <Zakim> -tantek
- # [19:06] <Zakim> -[Apple]
- # [19:06] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
- # [19:06] <Zakim> -sanja
- # [19:06] * Quits: alex_antennahouse (~458c94ae@public.cloak) ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
- # [19:06] <Zakim> -Bert
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- # [19:06] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
- # [19:06] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Accept Myle's proposal to make baseline of overflow non-visible inline blocks the higher of the actual baseline (at initial scroll position) and the margin-box bottom. Separately investigate whether to switch from margin-box bottom to padding-box bottom for sanity. (requries web-compat check)
- # [19:07] <Zakim> - +1.631.398.aacc
- # [19:07] <Zakim> -fantasai
- # [19:07] <Zakim> -plinss
- # [19:07] <Zakim> -Florian
- # [19:07] <fantasai> myles: was that all clear for you?
- # [19:07] <fantasai> ACTION: TabAtkins and fantasai to update Box Alignment spec per resolution, propose wording for CSS2.1 errata
- # [19:07] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [19:07] * RRSAgent records action 1
- # [19:07] <trackbot> Created ACTION-678 - And fantasai to update box alignment spec per resolution, propose wording for css2.1 errata [on Tab Atkins Jr. - due 2015-04-08].
- # [19:08] <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
- # [19:09] <myles> fantasai: yes
- # [19:09] * Quits: dj2 (~dj2@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [19:10] <Zakim> -[Bloomberg]
- # [19:10] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- # [19:10] <Zakim> Attendees were dauwhe, zcorpan, glazou, +1.206.675.aaaa, astearns, +1.479.764.aabb, plinss, Florian, [IPcaller], +1.631.398.aacc, [Apple], gregwhitworth, SimonSapin, [Bloomberg],
- # [19:10] <Zakim> ... +43.134.001.00aadd, sanja, dbaron, BradK, tantek, Bert, fantasai
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- # [21:52] <Florian> dbaron: MDN claims "-moz-user-modify: read-only | read-write | write-only" exists (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/-moz-user-modify)
- # [21:53] <Florian> using the inspector confirms that this property and these values are recognized.
- # [21:53] <Florian> But they don't seem to do anything.
- # [21:54] <Florian> The webkit equivalent on the other hand does work, and "-webkit-user-modify: read-write" appears to do the same thing as putting contenteditable on an element
- # [21:54] <Florian> Am I misunderstanding how the -moz- version is supposed to work, or does it not work?
- # [22:02] <dbaron> Florian, the only thing it does is that read-only apparently suppresses something about the caret
- # [22:02] <dbaron> Florian, https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/base/nsCaret.cpp#496
- # [22:04] <Florian> dbaron: Do you think it used to do more, and this is just a leftover of a removal, or that it never got implemented beyond this? I tried looking around in bugzilla, and couldn't find evidence either way.
- # [22:04] <dbaron> Florian, not sure
- # [22:04] <dbaron> Florian, in the early days people mass-added parsing/computation of properties before implementing any support for them
- # [22:06] <Florian> dbaron: It could be one of these, then.
- # [22:08] <Florian> dbaron: Thanks. I should learn my way around the gecko source, that'd be better than bothering you.
- # [22:08] <dbaron> Florian, not worth it for questions like that, but there might be other reasons to do so
- # [22:10] <Florian> dbaron: intellectual curiosity is probably a sufficient reason (to be balanced against available time), but maybe I could write some patches sometimes too, although that takes time too...
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- # Session Close: Thu Apr 02 00:00:01 2015
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