/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2015-06-23 / end

Options:

Previous day, Next day

  1. # Session Start: Tue Jun 23 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:09] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
  4. # [00:12] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
  5. # [00:31] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  6. # [00:31] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  7. # [00:38] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  8. # [00:42] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  9. # [00:46] * Joins: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak)
  10. # [00:49] * Quits: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  11. # [00:49] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  12. # [00:56] * Joins: renoirb_ (renoirb@public.cloak)
  13. # [00:56] * Quits: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  14. # [01:10] * Joins: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  15. # [01:10] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  16. # [01:14] * Quits: lajava (~javi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  17. # [01:20] * Quits: renoirb_ (renoirb@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  18. # [01:23] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  19. # [01:23] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  20. # [01:29] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  21. # [01:56] * Joins: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak)
  22. # [01:56] * Quits: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak)
  23. # [02:01] * Joins: logbot (~logbot@public.cloak)
  24. # [02:01] * Quits: logbot (~logbot@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  25. # [02:10] * Joins: logbot (~logbot@public.cloak)
  26. # [02:10] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
  27. # [02:26] * Quits: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  28. # [02:58] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  29. # [03:54] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  30. # [04:00] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  31. # [05:02] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) ("")
  32. # [05:03] * Quits: myles (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  33. # [07:33] * Joins: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak)
  34. # [07:38] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
  35. # [08:19] * Quits: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak) ("My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  36. # [08:51] * Joins: Guest53 (~textual@public.cloak)
  37. # [08:52] * Guest53 is now known as Kurisu
  38. # [08:54] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  39. # [09:36] * Joins: lajava (~javi@public.cloak)
  40. # [09:43] * Joins: quadcore (~quadcore@public.cloak)
  41. # [09:45] * Quits: quadcore (~quadcore@public.cloak) ("")
  42. # [10:17] * Quits: Kurisu (~textual@public.cloak) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
  43. # [10:21] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  44. # [10:27] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
  45. # [10:46] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  46. # [12:13] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  47. # [12:34] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  48. # [12:51] * Quits: lajava (~javi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  49. # [13:29] * Joins: lajava (~javi@public.cloak)
  50. # [14:05] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
  51. # [14:07] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  52. # [14:19] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  53. # [14:33] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  54. # [15:06] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  55. # [15:26] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  56. # [15:53] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  57. # [15:53] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  58. # [16:29] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  59. # [16:31] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  60. # [16:44] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
  61. # [16:46] * Joins: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  62. # [16:46] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  63. # [17:16] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  64. # [17:21] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
  65. # [17:31] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  66. # [17:45] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  67. # [17:47] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  68. # [17:47] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  69. # [17:59] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  70. # [18:01] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  71. # [18:06] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  72. # [18:06] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  73. # [18:17] * Joins: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak)
  74. # [18:21] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  75. # [18:32] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  76. # [18:35] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  77. # [18:39] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  78. # [18:54] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  79. # [19:29] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  80. # [19:36] * Quits: lajava (~javi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  81. # [19:38] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  82. # [19:39] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  83. # [19:46] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  84. # [19:48] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  85. # [19:49] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  86. # [20:00] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  87. # [20:14] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  88. # [20:17] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  89. # [20:29] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  90. # [20:30] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
  91. # [20:32] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  92. # [20:32] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  93. # [20:32] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  94. # [20:33] * Joins: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak)
  95. # [20:33] <glazou> hi plinss
  96. # [20:45] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  97. # [20:57] <Florian> Woohoo. 100 issues in CSS3-UI's DoC
  98. # [20:58] <tantek> amazing
  99. # [20:58] <Florian> To be fair, we've been in last call since 2012, so that gave a bit more than the typical 4 weeks to gather issues.
  100. # [20:58] <Florian> :)
  101. # [20:59] <tantek> and we have cut the feature set significantly (which is a good thing)
  102. # [20:59] <Florian> yes, and yes.
  103. # [20:59] <tantek> oh that reminds me - has there been any more follow-up discussion about box-sizing:padding-box ?
  104. # [21:00] <Florian> yeah, mozilla has dropped it, so we confirmed killing it, and I've dropped it from the spec.
  105. # [21:00] <tantek> great
  106. # [21:00] <Florian> There is one ongoing thread on the ML with one person wishing we'd keep it around (and maybe add margin-box while we're at it), but so far no new use case has been presented.
  107. # [21:01] <Florian> (I have not yet listed that thread in the DoC)
  108. # [21:01] <tantek> I think we can leave the door open to adding it in CSS4-UI *IF* a use-case is presented for it
  109. # [21:01] <Florian> sure
  110. # [21:01] <tantek> but I think having that requirement is a good pragmatic barrier
  111. # [21:01] <Florian> it's easy to spec (now that the basics are in place), and I have nothing against the feature. I just don't want to spec fiction, so if UA vendors don't want it, then it doesn't go into the spec
  112. # [21:02] <tantek> right
  113. # [21:02] <Florian> "It's not a priority + good use cases" => can go into a spec, we'll get to it eventually
  114. # [21:03] <Florian> "We do not want to implement + vague requests" => not
  115. # [21:11] * Quits: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  116. # [21:11] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  117. # [21:13] <Florian> By the way, if you want to put your AB hat on, preparing such a big DoC made me realize it's a bit antiquated as a process. I do think there is value in demonstrating wide review. But DoC the way we do it might not be the best way to do that anymore, given that 1) we work in the open, 2) don't have an actual LC phase anymore, and 3) should publish WD frequently with small increments . I'll probably write a mail about that.
  118. # [21:19] <TabAtkins> Florian: The reason it's so big is because you *haven't* published in a long while. And it functions as a pretty decent opportunity to catch mails that slipped through the cracks, at least if you take it seriously.
  119. # [21:21] <Florian> Tab: No, we published recently. Last WD is from May. But making a disposition of comments since there would be silly, since all the review happened before it.
  120. # [21:21] <Florian> DoC are there to demonstrate wide review. If it's not big, it's not good.
  121. # [21:23] <Florian> but when you publish WD every month (or more!), if you do a DoC since the last draft, it will always be tiny, which seems to me to miss the point
  122. # [21:25] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  123. # [21:25] <Florian> I think we should be showing 2 things: 1) this spec has got a ton a reviews, including from people who're not core members of the working group. 2) The last draft has been out for a bit, we've requested reviews, and it has *not* gathered many comments, showing that things are pretty good now.
  124. # [21:25] <Florian> 2) needs to be tied to a specific (most recent) draft
  125. # [21:25] <Florian> 1) should not, and should instead cover a long period of time. Not sure how long
  126. # [21:27] <Florian> For CSS-UI, if I do a DoC since the 2012 LC (what I did), I succeed at point 1(wide review), but that doesn't answer point 2 (stability). If I do it on the last working draft, which was an unofficial last call, I can demostrate 2 (stability), but not 1 (wide review)
  127. # [21:29] <Florian> TabAtkins: So I think the DoC was devised when work was done in private, so wide review could only be gathered on the (infrequent) public drafts.
  128. # [21:29] <Florian> We can still make do with it, but I hardly feels like the right tool.
  129. # [21:32] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  130. # [21:35] * Joins: renoirb_ (renoirb@public.cloak)
  131. # [21:36] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
  132. # [21:36] * Quits: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  133. # [21:37] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  134. # [21:43] * Quits: renoirb_ (renoirb@public.cloak) ("My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  135. # [21:43] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
  136. # [21:49] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  137. # [21:55] * Joins: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  138. # [21:55] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  139. # [21:58] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  140. # [21:59] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  141. # [22:00] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
  142. # [22:03] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
  143. # [22:10] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  144. # [22:11] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  145. # [22:13] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
  146. # [22:31] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  147. # [22:33] * Joins: myles (~Adium@public.cloak)
  148. # [22:53] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
  149. # [23:00] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  150. # [23:00] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  151. # [23:04] <tantek> agreed with Florian's points
  152. # [23:04] <tantek> yes Florian - I think that's good input for AB / process
  153. # [23:08] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  154. # [23:24] * Joins: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak)
  155. # [23:31] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  156. # [23:33] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
  157. # [23:33] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  158. # [23:35] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  159. # Session Close: Wed Jun 24 00:00:00 2015

Previous day, Next day

Think these logs are useful? Then please donate to show your gratitude (and keep them up, of course). Thanks! — Krijn