/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2015-06-29 / end

Options:

Previous day, Next day

  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 29 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:39] * Joins: unix1234 (~unix@public.cloak)
  4. # [01:01] * Joins: Kurisu (~kurisubrooks@public.cloak)
  5. # [02:16] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  6. # [02:58] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  7. # [03:16] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  8. # [03:23] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  9. # [03:54] * Quits: Kurisu (~kurisubrooks@public.cloak) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
  10. # [04:24] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak)
  11. # [04:38] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  12. # [04:47] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  13. # [05:01] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  14. # [05:52] * Quits: rego (~smuxi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  15. # [05:54] * Joins: rego (~smuxi@public.cloak)
  16. # [06:01] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  17. # [06:03] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  18. # [06:16] * Joins: SimonSapin_ (~simon@public.cloak)
  19. # [06:19] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@public.cloak) ("Bye")
  20. # [06:20] * SimonSapin_ is now known as SimonSapin
  21. # [06:20] * Joins: heycam|away (~cam@public.cloak)
  22. # [06:23] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  23. # [06:30] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  24. # [06:30] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  25. # [06:40] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  26. # [06:50] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  27. # [07:03] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  28. # [07:04] * Quits: unix1234 (~unix@public.cloak) ("")
  29. # [07:07] * Joins: tommyjt__ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  30. # [07:09] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  31. # [07:13] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  32. # [07:14] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  33. # [07:14] * Quits: tommyjt__ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  34. # [07:16] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  35. # [07:22] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  36. # [07:28] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  37. # [07:28] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  38. # [07:42] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  39. # [07:50] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  40. # [07:51] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  41. # [07:56] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  42. # [07:56] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  43. # [07:58] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  44. # [08:04] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  45. # [08:21] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  46. # [08:21] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  47. # [08:22] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  48. # [08:23] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  49. # [08:29] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  50. # [08:40] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  51. # [08:41] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  52. # [08:50] * Quits: myles (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  53. # [08:54] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  54. # [08:54] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  55. # [09:09] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  56. # [09:24] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
  57. # [09:34] * Joins: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak)
  58. # [09:43] * Joins: lajava (~javi@public.cloak)
  59. # [10:49] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  60. # [11:04] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  61. # [11:12] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  62. # [12:18] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  63. # [12:34] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  64. # [13:51] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  65. # [14:02] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  66. # [14:15] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  67. # [14:21] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  68. # [14:21] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  69. # [14:24] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  70. # [14:39] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  71. # [14:44] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  72. # [14:49] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  73. # [14:49] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  74. # [14:52] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  75. # [14:52] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  76. # [14:53] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
  77. # [14:55] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  78. # [15:39] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  79. # [15:42] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  80. # [15:42] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
  81. # [15:45] * Joins: tommyjt__ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  82. # [15:45] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  83. # [15:46] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  84. # [16:01] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  85. # [16:05] * Joins: shepazu_ (schepers@public.cloak)
  86. # [16:08] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  87. # [16:12] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  88. # [16:18] * Quits: tommyjt__ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  89. # [16:20] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
  90. # [16:24] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  91. # [16:24] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  92. # [16:24] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  93. # [16:28] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  94. # [16:28] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  95. # [16:54] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  96. # [16:59] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  97. # [17:17] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
  98. # [17:19] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  99. # [17:28] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  100. # [17:36] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  101. # [17:46] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  102. # [17:59] * shepazu_ is now known as shepazu
  103. # [18:03] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  104. # [18:03] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  105. # [18:04] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  106. # [18:07] * Joins: Punga3 (~Punga@public.cloak)
  107. # [18:07] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  108. # [18:07] <Punga3> Hello, I would like to ask about CSS 3 columns.
  109. # [18:08] <Punga3> I have this problem of background of elements overflowing to another column creating ugly looking lines.
  110. # [18:08] <Punga3> Is there any CSS workaround to this problem?
  111. # [18:09] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  112. # [18:09] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  113. # [18:14] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) ("Ex-Chat")
  114. # [18:14] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  115. # [18:15] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  116. # [18:20] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  117. # [18:21] <TabAtkins> Punga3: This is a channel for the CSSWG and the development of CSS specs, not CSS help. Try #css on freenode.
  118. # [18:22] <Punga3> Oh, I'm sorry, thanks!
  119. # [18:25] <TabAtkins> Punga3: no problem!
  120. # [18:30] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  121. # [18:33] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  122. # [18:37] * Joins: renoirb (renoirb@public.cloak)
  123. # [18:38] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  124. # [18:46] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  125. # [18:55] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  126. # [18:55] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  127. # [18:57] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  128. # [19:03] * Quits: rego (~smuxi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  129. # [19:03] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  130. # [19:05] * Joins: rego (~smuxi@public.cloak)
  131. # [19:44] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
  132. # [19:45] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
  133. # [19:51] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
  134. # [19:53] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
  135. # [19:54] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  136. # [20:14] * Joins: hober (~ted@public.cloak)
  137. # [20:15] * Joins: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  138. # [20:15] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  139. # [20:16] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  140. # [20:28] * Joins: myles (~Adium@public.cloak)
  141. # [20:37] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  142. # [20:38] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  143. # [20:46] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  144. # [20:54] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  145. # [20:58] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  146. # [21:01] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  147. # [21:01] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  148. # [21:01] * Quits: tommyjtl_ (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  149. # [21:15] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  150. # [21:36] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  151. # [21:38] * Joins: florian (~yaaic@public.cloak)
  152. # [21:44] * Joins: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  153. # [21:44] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  154. # [21:51] * Quits: florian (~yaaic@public.cloak) ("")
  155. # [21:51] * Joins: shepazu_ (schepers@public.cloak)
  156. # [21:52] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  157. # [21:53] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  158. # [21:55] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  159. # [22:03] * Quits: lajava (~javi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  160. # [22:21] * Quits: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  161. # [22:22] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  162. # [22:23] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
  163. # [22:34] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  164. # [22:38] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) ("")
  165. # [22:40] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  166. # [22:49] * shepazu_ is now known as shepazu
  167. # [23:19] * Joins: Kurisu (~kurisubrooks@public.cloak)
  168. # [23:26] <leaverou> TabAtkins: ping?
  169. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> leaverou: pong
  170. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> You're making some very weird assumptions. ^_^
  171. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> That I don't udnerstand
  172. # [23:27] <leaverou> please, elaborate
  173. # [23:27] <leaverou> what are the weird assumptions?
  174. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> Default inner radius is 0, outer radius is infinity.
  175. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> So you get a conic filling the entire image area, same as today.
  176. # [23:28] <leaverou> the default value needs to be something you can specify in CSS, not magic
  177. # [23:28] <leaverou> infinity is not a valid <length>
  178. # [23:28] <TabAtkins> ??? So?
  179. # [23:28] <TabAtkins> It's a keyword.
  180. # [23:28] <TabAtkins> syntax for the outer radius would be [ <length> | <percentage> | infinity ] or something
  181. # [23:28] <leaverou> so we'll add a keyword of infinity for the radius, that is not available in any other <length>?
  182. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> Probably throw in the other sizing keywords from radial gradiants.
  183. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> ...yes? That's fine?
  184. # [23:29] <SimonSapin> `max-width: none` is infinity in disguise
  185. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> Most lengths can't reasonably be infinite.
  186. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  187. # [23:29] <leaverou> hmmmm so cover would give the current behavior
  188. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> "contain" is also a keyword we'd accept that's not valid anywhere else that accepts a lenght.
  189. # [23:30] <TabAtkins> Hm, yeah, I guess so.
  190. # [23:30] * Joins: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak)
  191. # [23:30] <TabAtkins> For a sec I wasn't sure if cover was large enough, but yeah, it is.
  192. # [23:30] <leaverou> contain/cover != infinity
  193. # [23:30] <TabAtkins> What distinction are you drawing between them?
  194. # [23:31] <TabAtkins> All three are just keywords with some defined behavior for the context.
  195. # [23:31] <timeless> TabAtkins: ping
  196. # [23:31] <TabAtkins> timeless: pong
  197. # [23:31] * timeless hopes this isn't being minuted :)
  198. # [23:32] <timeless> so, i'm reading https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Jun/0110.html
  199. # [23:32] <leaverou> timeless: there is an archive
  200. # [23:32] <timeless> do you care about typos in the minutes? :)
  201. # [23:32] <timeless> > Florian: Anyone form Microsoft here?
  202. # [23:32] <timeless> s/form/from/
  203. # [23:32] <TabAtkins> timeless: We do not, unless it's a typo that significantly changes the meaning of a resolution or something.
  204. # [23:32] <timeless> leaverou: i can live w/ that today (disclosure appreciated)
  205. # [23:33] <leaverou> TabAtkins: there's also the question about whether these are useful enough, as they add even more complexity to the implementation
  206. # [23:33] <Florian> timeless: haven't been following IRC. What's going on?
  207. # [23:33] <timeless> TabAtkins: so, reading the section Issue #95
  208. # [23:33] <timeless> i can't tell what you're saying
  209. # [23:33] <TabAtkins> leaverou: Right, what I'm saying is that inner radius seems to be useful from observation of conics in the wild, and outer is useful given all the border-radius being thrown around in the examples.
  210. # [23:34] <timeless> Florian: i'm being a pedant, just noting that your scribe transposed `from` as `form`
  211. # [23:34] <ChrisL> infinity, and the radius of the bounding circle that fits the box being filled with a gradient, are not the same
  212. # [23:34] <ChrisL> no need to bring in infinity when it is radially symmetrical, it just needs to be big enough
  213. # [23:34] <Florian> timeless: right. No typos would be better, but I think we'll survive that one without a major misunderstanding.
  214. # [23:34] <TabAtkins> timeless: I was saying that I've had to deal with the "what word to use for 'omit with ellipsis'" issue, and just invented "ellipsized" according to normal english rules.
  215. # [23:35] <timeless> Florian: ^^
  216. # [23:35] <timeless> that's not what you interpreted it to mean!
  217. # [23:35] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Yeah, didn't realize at first that "cover" was sufficient to cover the box. Lea pointed that out. No need for "infinity" then.
  218. # [23:35] <timeless> TabAtkins: thanks. Florian ^, i think i'll rest my case :/
  219. # [23:36] <TabAtkins> timeless: But Google sees "ellipsed" much more commonly, so wtv.
  220. # [23:36] <leaverou> TabAtkins: in the examples, what they really need is to be able to say (cover minus <length>), which is not exactly inner radius
  221. # [23:36] <ChrisL> so you are wanting an inner radius, like a circular clip?
  222. # [23:36] <timeless> TabAtkins: yeah, i saw that, but i'm unconvinced that the word is being used for that purprose
  223. # [23:36] <TabAtkins> leaverou: What examples are trying to do that?
  224. # [23:36] <timeless> purpose
  225. # [23:36] * timeless didn't analyze all the uses of the tiny word
  226. # [23:36] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: inner-radius defines where the rays start. outer is where they stop.
  227. # [23:36] <ChrisL> I don't see that much/ever from what I remember of conical gradients in the wild. it seems like just an extra complication
  228. # [23:37] <leaverou> TabAtkins: how is the result different from clipping?
  229. # [23:37] <timeless> TabAtkins: i think you're running into `Ellipsed-winged` creatures
  230. # [23:37] <timeless> (which are basically creatures with elliptical wings)
  231. # [23:37] <TabAtkins> leaverou: It's a form of clipping a la SVG clipping, if you feel like defining a clip that cuts out the center. It's completely different from normal CSS clipping, which just limits how *big* something is.
  232. # [23:38] <timeless> and similar things
  233. # [23:38] <leaverou> TabAtkins: I was referring to clipping as a graphics concept, not SVG or CSS clipping
  234. # [23:39] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  235. # [23:39] <TabAtkins> leaverou: As the *general* concept, yes, this is just clipping to a donut shape that is symmetrical with the gradient shape.
  236. # [23:39] <TabAtkins> timeless: I mean, maybe. But I'd never heard of ellipsed-winged before. ^_^
  237. # [23:39] <leaverou> TabAtkins: clipping backgrounds seems to be the general use case here, and has waaaaay more uses than clipping conical gradients to a donut shape
  238. # [23:40] <TabAtkins> leaverou: I don't understand what you mean, unless you think that (a) we should add an ability to do general clipping of background-images and (b) such an ability would be capable of relatively easily clipping a conic gradient to a donut shape that's symmetrical to the gradient shape.
  239. # [23:40] <timeless> "ellipsized" (computer or javascript or c++)
  240. # [23:40] <timeless> "ellipsed" (computer or javascript or c++)
  241. # [23:40] <ChrisL> we don't have that sort of doughnut clipping for other backgrounds, such as tiled images. why add it for this one gradient type?
  242. # [23:41] <timeless> seem to give proportions more closely matching what i'd expect (roughly 2:1 in favor of the former)
  243. # [23:41] <leaverou> TabAtkins: I think that adding clipping specifically to conic gradient is awkward, inconsistent with the other gradient types and will give UAs even more of an excuse not to implement them.
  244. # [23:41] <leaverou> TabAtkins: the actual use case you're trying to solve is clipping backgrounds, and that comes up way more often than clipping conical gradients
  245. # [23:41] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: ...because other types of backgrounds don't intrinsically need that sort of donut clipping?
  246. # [23:41] <TabAtkins> leaverou: Not really, no.
  247. # [23:41] <leaverou> so if you care that much about clipping backgrounds, we should look into that, not add hacky special cases to image generating functions
  248. # [23:41] <ChrisL> nor does this one :)
  249. # [23:42] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Like I said, I disagree. When I was researching conics a bit, I saw a number of examples of conics that started some distance out from the center.
  250. # [23:42] <TabAtkins> And a few of the examples in Lea's gallery use that already.
  251. # [23:42] <ChrisL> yes, avoid this special case; for clipping, there is already a clip feature
  252. # [23:43] <TabAtkins> There is no clipping feature that currently exists in the context we're discussing.
  253. # [23:44] <leaverou> TabAtkins: in many of these cases it's not clipping per se, it's overlaying a circle on top of it
  254. # [23:44] <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/css-masking-1/
  255. # [23:45] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Not relevant to what we're discussing; that applies to entire elements, not images. (Unless you move the entire background layer into an SVG somehow.)
  256. # [23:45] <leaverou> TabAtkins: in other cases it's clipping, but I've seen clipping needed for other types of backgrounds as well. Heck, my book includes an entire sub-chapter about how to fake clipping to the border-box (i.e. without the padding box)
  257. # [23:45] <TabAtkins> leaverou: I disagree that that's common. For example, a common use-case for conics is pie charts; donut charts are a common pie-chart variant.
  258. # [23:45] <TabAtkins> And Ana provided at least one example of an inner-radius that she had to fake.
  259. # [23:45] <leaverou> TabAtkins: and like I said, in all these cases where it's common, what the author cares is not the inner radius, it's the thickness of the donut
  260. # [23:46] <leaverou> so your solution wouldn't 100% solve their use case either
  261. # [23:46] <TabAtkins> Ah, is *that* what you were talking about before?
  262. # [23:46] <ChrisL> TabAtkins: agreed clip/mask currently can't apply to background. My point being if you want that feature, that is where to add it
  263. # [23:46] <leaverou> agreed with ChrisL
  264. # [23:47] <TabAtkins> Welp, strongly disagree, and think that both of you are overly generalizing a feature in a way that will destroy its usability (or else greatly jack up the complexity of the more general feature), for a relatively common case.
  265. # [23:47] <leaverou> we already have background-clip btw, we could extend it to accept <shape> for instance
  266. # [23:47] <leaverou> TabAtkins: if you are right, we can always add this in the future
  267. # [23:47] <leaverou> we shouldn't overcomplicate conic-gradient() if we want to get any implementations
  268. # [23:48] <leaverou> adding from <angle> is super easy to implement, inner/outer radius is a bit more complicated (not hard, but still)
  269. # [23:48] <ChrisL> on the other hand, you could be over complicating a feature that will hinder it's adoption (and since th polyfil does not support inner radius, its clear that the examples that appear to you to use it have been done another way)
  270. # [23:49] <ChrisL> iirc most graphics libraries do not provide an inner and outer radius. they generate a paint that covers the entire shape
  271. # [23:49] <leaverou> exactly, thanks ChrisL!
  272. # [23:52] <ChrisL> i have seen the problems with attempting to go beyond what the underlying libraries support. it requires special case code or even re-implementation, and typically has a chilling effect.
  273. # [23:52] <ChrisL> SVG tried to do that several times and had to back off
  274. # [23:52] <leaverou> TabAtkins: also, re:usability, if making a <shape> that is a circle with the dimensions of the border-box minus <length> is hard, then the issue lies in Shapes. Solving it in conic gradients is a hack.
  275. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> I don't even know what the underlying libraries support today. When I put it in the spec, no browser graphics libraries supported conics at all.
  276. # [23:52] <leaverou> TabAtkins: they support mesh gradients now, at least many of them (Cairo does)
  277. # [23:52] <leaverou> and conic gradients are just a special case of mesh gradients
  278. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> leaverou: I disagree because conic has information built into it that makes it very easy to talk about its clipping, versus a general clip functionality that has to duplicate a bunch of information.
  279. # [23:53] * TabAtkins still doesn't understand how conics can be done with meshes, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  280. # [23:53] * timeless wonders how TabAtkins manages those japanese smilies
  281. # [23:53] <leaverou> I don't even know how you would define a mesh gradient that is a conic gradient with inner radius WITHOUT clipping as a separate step
  282. # [23:53] <TabAtkins> timeless: google + copy/paste
  283. # [23:53] <timeless> figures
  284. # [23:53] <timeless> have a good day
  285. # [23:53] <TabAtkins> leaverou: You clip *in the implementation*.
  286. # [23:53] * timeless goes to investigate the real world
  287. # [23:54] <leaverou> so, conceptually it's clipping, implementation-wise it's clipping, but in the interface it's "inner radius"? This makes no sense
  288. # [23:54] <TabAtkins> Rather than having to do something weird like "background-image: clip(conic-gradient(...), ...);" where the two ... duplicate a bunch of information.
  289. # [23:54] <TabAtkins> leaverou: lol ok
  290. # [23:55] <leaverou> I never suggested a clip() function
  291. # [23:55] <leaverou> we have background-clip, clipping should be done there
  292. # [23:55] <TabAtkins> Sure, but whatever you were intending would be equivalent.
  293. # [23:55] <leaverou> the usaiblity would not be equivalent (hopefully!!)
  294. # [23:56] <leaverou> and that was your entire point, wasn't it?
  295. # [23:56] <leaverou> that the usability of this would be bad
  296. # [23:56] <TabAtkins> I highly doubt you can get anywhere near the same usability!
  297. # [23:56] <ChrisL> except that with clip() it could also be asymmetric while inner radius is limited to centered clips
  298. # [23:56] <TabAtkins> I mean, prove me wrong, but I think it's *super* unlikely.
  299. # [23:56] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Yes, *when you want to do arbitrary clips* you want an arbitrary clip functionality.
  300. # [23:56] <leaverou> ChrisL: Not necessarily, I presume inner radius would work for whatever the center is
  301. # [23:57] <leaverou> ChrisL: oh nevermind, I see what you meant
  302. # [23:57] <TabAtkins> When you want to clip a la "inner/outer radius", you can build that in so you don't have to overcomplicate clipping to have the same positioning/sizing functionality and require the author to duplicate information between background images and background clips.
  303. # [23:57] <leaverou> TabAtkins: even about the usability of it, experience has proven that authors rarely use the most advanced function arguments for gradients
  304. # [23:57] <leaverou> most don't even know you can size a radial gradient
  305. # [23:57] <leaverou> whereas if we had a general background clipping concept
  306. # [23:58] <leaverou> they would learn it once and would be able to apply it for all their cases
  307. # Session Close: Tue Jun 30 00:00:00 2015

Previous day, Next day

Think these logs are useful? Then please donate to show your gratitude (and keep them up, of course). Thanks! — Krijn