/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2015-09-09 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Sep 09 00:00:01 2015
# Session Ident: #css
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# [16:55] <Ms2ger> r? https://github.com/w3c/csswg-test/pull/850
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# [17:07] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger: r+
# [17:08] <SimonSapin> r? https://github.com/w3c/csswg-test/pull/852
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# [17:15] * glazou changes topic to 'CSS WG conf call - 2015-sep-09 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Sep/0057.html'
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# [17:15] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
# [17:15] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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# [17:16] <glazou> salut Florian :)
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# [17:42] <Florian> glazou: Salut
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# [17:59] <dael> present+ dael
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# [18:04] <dael> glazou: Let's start
# [18:05] <fantasai> present+ fantasai
# [18:05] <dael> glazou: I noticed two extra items outside what's in the agenda. First was a request from fantasai to transition CSS Break to CR. Sorry, three items. Second was prefixing polify.
# [18:05] <dael> glazou: fantasai, how much time do you need for Fragmentation?
# [18:05] <dael> fantasai: NOt much.
# [18:05] <dael> glazou: So since it's pub let's start there.
# [18:06] <dael> Topic: Fragmentation
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# [18:06] <dael> fantasai: Let me grab to DoC
# [18:06] <glazou> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-break-3/issues-lc-2015
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# [18:06] <glazou> http://www.w3.org/mid/55E7486C.9050004@inkedblade.net
# [18:06] <dael> fantasai: I also sent an e-mail. Let me get that URL. That summerizes.
# [18:07] <dael> fantasai: WE have a DoC. Chris wants it formatted differently, but hasn't said exactly how. The changes list is minimal.
# [18:07] <ChrisL> q+
# [18:07] * Zakim sees ChrisL on the speaker queue
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# [18:07] <dael> ChrisL: The specific thing I would like, but won't obj if you don't, is to more clearly show if the commentor has accepted the working group's rejection. You asked me for a good one, but I couldn't find a recent one, but I have to explain them and it adds time.
# [18:08] <dael> ChrisL: If you don't have it or it's not easy that's okay.
# [18:08] <dael> ChrisL: So have one color for if the WG agrees and have a different color for if the commentor has areed with the resolution. maybe a border.
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# [18:08] <dael> fantasai: I can make that happen. Most of them were accepted and the commentor didn't respond. I can go around and try and accumulate responses, but I just agreed with everything or defered.
# [18:09] <dael> ChrisL: I agree it's not always easy to get a commentor to respond.
# [18:09] <ChrisL> s/respond/respond, if we already did what they asked
# [18:09] <dael> fantasai: There was follow-up tot he NY resolution we discussed but didn't conclude formally so I'd like a resolution or that people don't care. People wanted to look at it more.
# [18:09] <dael> fantasai: If they haven't looked, we can delay another week while people look.
# [18:09] <dael> fantasai: I don't know. The chairs are responcible to make sure we have a resolution for the things in the e-mail.
# [18:10] <TabAtkins> present+ TabAtkins
# [18:10] <dael> glazou: So...
# [18:10] <gregwhitworth> present+ gregwhitworth
# [18:10] <dael> Florian_: Who wanted extra time and more do they feel about it now?
# [18:10] * TabAtkins Sorry for the delay, Webex was being confusing.
# [18:10] <dael> s/more/how
# [18:10] * gregwhitworth same here tab
# [18:10] <dael> glazou: Nobody apperently.
# [18:10] <dael> fantasai: Florian_
# [18:10] <dael> Florian_: Oh, it was me?
# [18:10] * dauwhe LOL
# [18:11] <dael> Florian_: Has the thing happened? I said I was okay witht he prose, but wanted to see examples. Have they been put up?
# [18:11] <dael> fantasai: No, they haven't.
# [18:12] <dael> fantasai: The issue is I have a box with borders and margin and padding and it has box-decoratin: break. Inside, several levels deep, there's a heading that forces a break. Should there be a margin at the top of the page due to the cloning of the outer box.
# [18:12] <dael> Florian_: I remember the discussion. It still makes sense to me. if it's just me don't block. I wasn't sure which way to go because there wasn't a use case to help me decide. The arguement made sense in general. If it's just me, go ahead.
# [18:13] <dael> glazou: Objections to the proposed change?
# [18:13] <dael> glazou: [reads minutes] It sounds like consensus but we were waiting on a final decision.
# [18:13] <dael> RESOLVED: Accept the change.
# [18:13] <dael> fantasai: That's it.
# [18:13] <dael> fantasai: We need a resolution for CR
# [18:13] <dael> glazou: Transition request and edits and everything, yeah. We need a resolution. Everyone okay with moving the doc to CR?
# [18:14] * Rossen_web yay!
# [18:14] * fantasai yay
# [18:14] <dael> RESOLVED: Publish Fragmentation as CR
# [18:14] * gregwhitworth :)
# [18:14] * dauwhe woo-hoo!
# [18:14] <dael> glazou: Who will handle it?
# [18:14] <dael> fantasai: Prob. me.
# [18:14] <dael> glazou: Thank you.
# [18:14] * fantasai needs to make the DoC more colorful, then will hand over to ChrisL
# [18:14] <dael> Topic: Prefixing policy
# [18:14] <glazou> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-2015/#experimental
# [18:14] <dael> glazou: I reviewed it and I have a few comments as a regular member.
# [18:15] <dael> glazou: In section 3.3.1 you don't mention prefixing, but it is in .2 and .3 but it doesn't say what prefixing is.
# [18:15] <dael> glazou: I didn't understand the difference in prefixing between the other sections and this one. Overall I think it's good enough.
# [18:15] * ChrisL prefixing is *so* deprecated, the definition has been removed
# [18:15] <dael> fantasai: I can take an action for those clarifications.
# [18:15] * fantasai lol
# [18:16] <dael> ACTION fantasai make clarifications of what prefixing is in 3.3.2 and 3.3.3
# [18:16] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
# [18:16] <trackbot> Created ACTION-721 - Make clarifications of what prefixing is in 3.3.2 and 3.3.3 [on Elika Etemad - due 2015-09-16].
# [18:16] <dael> glazou: Any other comments on that section?
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: I think MS and Apple wanted to take it back for review. If they need more time we need to give it.
# [18:17] <dael> ??: I'll send it around. most of the stuff we had concerns on we had addressed, but I'll send it around and say I need it for next week.
# [18:17] <glazou> s/??/greg
# [18:17] <dael> glazou: I'm not sure we have anyone from Apple, but can you drop a message to smfr to do the same?
# [18:17] <dael> fantasai: I can.
# [18:17] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Aug/0348.html
# [18:17] <dael> Topic: a11y requirements on authoring tools
# [18:17] <bkardell_> q+
# [18:17] * Zakim sees ChrisL, bkardell_ on the speaker queue
# [18:17] <dael> fantasai: I had an action to come up witht he wording. I sent it to the list. If people are happy with it we can add it to grid and flexbox.
# [18:18] <dael> bo: I like the wording and I'd like to run it by a couple people. I can do that really quickly and get back on that.
# [18:18] <dael> s/bo/bcampbell
# [18:18] <dael> glazou: Can it wait for bcampbell?
# [18:18] * gregwhitworth this is going in as a note right?
# [18:18] <dael> fantasai: Yes, ut I'd like to hear from the rest of the group. If everyone else is okay we can maybe do a resolution pending Bo's feedback.
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# [18:18] * fantasai no, it's normative against authoring tools
# [18:18] <dael> glazou: I have no problem witht he wording.
# [18:19] * gregwhitworth I agree with the wording as well
# [18:19] <dael> Florian_: I agree witht he intent.
# [18:19] <dael> dauwhe: I like the wording.
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# [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm fine witht he wording.
# [18:19] <Florian_> s/the intent/the intent and the wording/
# [18:19] <dael> Rossen_web: I LOVE the wording.
# [18:19] * ChrisL group hug!!!!
# [18:19] * fantasai yay! :D
# [18:19] <bradk> I want to have the wordings baby.
# [18:19] <dael> glazou: Objection?
# [18:19] <tantek> present+ tantek
# [18:19] * tantek is sharing speakerphone with Rossen
# [18:19] <dael> RESOVED: accept the new wording pending bcampbell's feedback.
# [18:19] <bkardell_> can we ack the folks on the speaker queue tho?
# [18:19] <dauwhe> q?
# [18:19] * Zakim sees ChrisL, bkardell_ on the speaker queue
# [18:20] <ChrisL> q-
# [18:20] * Zakim sees bkardell_ on the speaker queue
# [18:20] <fantasai> s/RESOVED/RESOLVED/
# [18:20] <glazou> Zakim, ack bkardell_
# [18:20] <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
# [18:20] <dael> bkardell_: There were some related discussions on the ML about the a11y.
# [18:20] * glazou tantek MSFT contaminated you again ?-)
# [18:20] * tantek glazou just here for the AB meeting ;)
# [18:20] <dael> bkardell_: Effectively I guess...do we need to strongly pusht he same sort of understanding to authors that we're pushing to the tooling? Even just today Moz hacks posted an article saying that the order of content in HTML markup isn't important anymore
# [18:21] * glazou tantek don’t ask to tell you what I think of last AB election ;)
# [18:21] <dael> bkardell_: Everyone I've spoken to that is there impress and their want/desire, but it isn't true.
# [18:21] * glazou tantek and say koalie hello
# [18:21] * Rossen_web glazou, of course that's what he'd say :)
# [18:21] * tantek glazou will do!
# [18:22] <dael> fantasai: We've done as much as we can in the spec to emphasize to athors. This is for authoring tools. We have warnings to authors in every section. I think what people have an impression of depends on who you're talking to. The authors that speak at conferences understand it's so you can give the source order in a logical manner.
# [18:22] <dael> fantasai: The problem is the people teaching the ordering aren't viewing it as important. I think we can do some evangelizing on that. I don't see how much else we can do in the spec.
# [18:22] <dael> bkardell_: Yes. And make sure all the examples demostrate good source order and call it out in the examples.
# [18:23] <dael> fantasai: If you see anywhere we need to call it out more, please let us know, but I think in all the cases where we used order we explained it. If you find specific places where we forgot, please send us feedback on that.
# [18:23] <dael> glazou: Okay. We have a resolution. We can move on.
# [18:23] <fantasai> bkardell_, send me a link to the Mozilla Hacks article?
# [18:23] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Aug/0345.html
# [18:23] * fantasai needs to smack someone with a fish
# [18:23] <dael> Topic: baselines of flex and grid containers.
# [18:23] <bkardell_> moz hacks article https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/09/the-future-of-layout-with-css-grid-layouts/
# [18:24] * glazou flying wet trout warning
# [18:24] * TabAtkins Whew, finally back on internet. Cleaners showed up so I had to leave house and head to Starbucks.
# [18:24] * tantek mmmmm Starbucks
# [18:24] * glazou TabAtkins poor man, forced to drink bad espresso
# [18:24] <dael> fantasai: This was an issue of what do we do to find the baseline of a flex container. If you have a flex container that has stuff inside it and that iself is being baseline-aligned because it's in a table cell or whatever, it needs to have a position that it's baseline.
# [18:24] * TabAtkins Nah, I'm drinking a frappucino. ^_^
# [18:25] * glazou still, bad coffee
# [18:25] * TabAtkins Sugar makes it not matter.
# [18:25] <dael> fantasai: The rule we have now is if some of the items are baseline aligned, we use that. If none of them do, we take the baseline of the first item. If that doesn't have any text we synt a baseline by taking hte bottom of the content box. timeless pointed out that instead of taking hte first item and giving up, why not keep looking for an item with text and use that.
# [18:25] * dauwhe sugar solves most problems
# [18:25] * glazou TabAtkins I could not enter a starbucks any more after astearns took me to the coffee bar not far away from Adobe SF offices
# [18:26] * tantek mmmm sugar ... goes to forage in the MSFT 112 cafeteria.
# [18:26] <dael> fantasai: I don't have a strong opinion. Just using the first item is prob slightly easier to impl. The other is slightly more logical. I'd like to hear from the group what they'd like to do. It's all summerized in the e-mail.
# [18:26] * Rossen_web glazou, don't blame you... we have Stumptown now
# [18:26] <dael> glazou: Opinions?
# [18:26] <dael> dbaron: If an author wants an item to be the baseline, they can baseline-align that so it doesn't seem worth the complexity in the defaults.
# [18:26] * glazou Rossen_web espresso is now way better in the US than here in FR
# [18:27] <dael> fantasai: Anybody else with an opinion? If not we'll no change.
# [18:27] <dael> Rossen_web: The proposal is no change?
# [18:27] <dael> fantasai: We're proposing no change.
# [18:27] <dael> Rossen_web: I'm for no change.
# [18:27] <dael> glazou: Other opinions?
# [18:27] <fantasai> fantasai^: timeless is proposing a change
# [18:27] <dael> glazou: It's hard to declare consensus with one opinion.
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# [18:27] <TabAtkins> I'm fine with no change
# [18:28] <dael> fantasai: Everyone that has spoken is for no change.
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# [18:28] <dael> glazou: Objections to no change?
# [18:28] <dael> RESOLVED: no change for baselines and flex and grid containers
# [18:28] <dael> Topic: reverting '0' -> '0%' change
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# [18:29] * Rossen_web glazou, totally agree about the espresso being much better here... especially in Seattle
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# [18:29] <tantek> %s have all kinds of weird behavior :P
# [18:29] <dael> fantasai: In the distant past we took flexbox to CR and got a comment from dholbert where if you have a column-flex container and the container is auto: height it can become 0 which isn't useful. We changed how the keyword works where instead of flex-basis of 0 we changed it to 0% because it gets treated as auto when in a box with unconstrained dimentions
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# [18:30] <dael> fantasai: There's another section that defined intrinisc sizes of flex containers, though, and it handles this better. You do the max-content size calculation and that preserves the height. So this is taken care of in a way that makes sense so we should revert the change for how we expand the shorthand.
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# [18:31] <dael> fantasai: What would change are the cases where someone set flex: 1 or flex: 3 and hasn't done flex-basis in an auto-height flex container. I believe that was broken in some earlier impl so in those cases it wouldn't have been useful.
# [18:31] <dael> fantasai: Also with the 0% change it gives you the same results as if you had spec auto or not anything. So it seems unlikely authors would have done this intentionally. So switching back won't cause compat concern, but it willg et us better behavior going forward.
# [18:32] * astearns Café Lomi is the best espresso I've found in Paris so far
# [18:32] <dael> fantasai: It allows for a useful behavior that authors might want whichi s I want all the items of equal height but at least tall enough to contain the tallest item which is the behavior from the intrinisc sizing rule.
# [18:32] * glazou astearns interesting...
# [18:32] <TabAtkins> I can no longer reason about it, but when I did have this loaded into my head, I agreed with it.
# [18:33] <dbaron> Which implementation is willing to make the change first?
# [18:33] <dael> fantasai: I discussed this with TabAtkins and Rossen_web and we think this is the right change to make. But this is substantal so I want to hear if the rest of the group is okay. Christian Biesinger has concerns that this might cause web compat if authors ar using the behavior. I haven't measured that, but it's unlikely they're using these in this context since it's not sign. different than the auto behavior.
# [18:33] <dael> glazou: Opinions?
# [18:34] <dael> Rossen_web: This is one of those things that's going to be hard to measure based on querying web content. We can see if people are using it as specified values. My guess is people aren't. I want to echo fantasai summary that it was a terrible hack and now we have a better way to do it so there's no reason to keep the hack.
# [18:34] <dael> Rossen_web: Any tools currently using it will change as soon as the impl changes.
# [18:34] <fantasai> The situation that triggers this is *column* flex container with auto height, flex items with 'flex: <integer>' as a declaration
# [18:35] <dael> Rossen_web: To dbaron question as to which impl will go first, whomever is shipping the soonest.
# [18:35] <dael> Florian_: So you don't have an issue with being first if releases happen that way?
# [18:35] <dael> Rossen_web: If we have a shipping vehichle where we can put it out there soon, we don't mind.
# [18:36] <dael> Rossen_web: There's usually other impl that ship quicker than we do, so we'll see who beats us to the punch.
# [18:36] <dael> Florian_: But you're not waiting for someone to get to market.
# [18:36] <dael> dbaron: I'm inclined to think we should wait until someone else does it first.
# [18:36] <dael> Rossen_web: At the least we can do a pro with a modified version of our platform and see if any breakage comes back.
# [18:37] <dael> Florian_: TabAtkins since your'e in favor and ship frequently, is there a chance you'd be testing how well this goes?
# [18:37] <dael> s/your'e/you're
# [18:37] <Rossen_web> s/pro/crawl/
# [18:37] <dael> TabAtkins: We'd be willing to test it.
# [18:38] <dael> glazou: Do I hear correctly we want to wait until an impl ships?
# [18:38] <dael> Florian_: I think the 'we' was Mozilla.
# [18:38] <dael> Rossen_web: Why do they want to wait?
# [18:38] <dael> Florian_: Concerns on webcompat. I heard that we're willing to resolve, but they want to wait to make the change until someone else does.
# [18:39] <dael> Rossen_web: I think this was something we added in Sophia last year. Given that impl have only done this for fairly short period of time, do we really believe that there will be that big of a compat hit?
# [18:39] <dael> fantasai: If we agree this is right, our only concern is webcompat, we shouldr esolve to make the change and note in the spec there's a chance there might be a webcompat issue.
# [18:39] <dael> Florian_: Sounds good.
# [18:40] <fantasai> s/Florian_/Rossen/
# [18:40] <dael> Rossen_web: Sounds good to me. I don't wnat to hold the spec for that one issue.
# [18:40] <Rossen_web> present+ Rossen_web
# [18:40] * fantasai oops
# [18:40] <dael> glazou: So any objection to that proposal?
# [18:40] <dael> glazou: dbaron?
# [18:40] <dbaron> I'm fine with it
# [18:40] <fantasai> fantasai^: This gives implementers the go ahead to make the change, and we can revisit if it turns out to be a problem
# [18:40] <dbaron> and I just hit the end-call button instead of the unmute button
# [18:40] <dael> glazou: Thanks dbaron. No objections?
# [18:40] <dael> RESOLVED: make the change and note in the spec there's a chance there might be a webcompat issue
# [18:41] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Aug/0342.html
# [18:41] <dael> Topic: Simplification of auto-repeat
# [18:41] * TabAtkins Sorry, I could have taken this one, but it's too noisy around me to speak well. >_<
# [18:41] <dael> fantasai: The auto-repeat sntax allows for repeating an entire track listing. Most use cases would be handled by a single track which might be worth simplifying to for level one. So the proposal is to restrict auto-fill and auto-fit to only take a single track size as an arguement.
# [18:41] <Rossen_web> what happens with something like repeat(auto-fill, 100px) auto
# [18:41] <TabAtkins> As responded in the list, I'm fine with this restriction; I think most use-cases are addressed with it. I have no problem with keeping it unrestricted as well, tho.
# [18:42] <TabAtkins> Rossen_web: That's illegal at the grammar level.
# [18:42] <Rossen_web> what about repeat(auto-fill, min-content
# [18:42] <dael> fantasai: I don't know many cases where you would need multiple track sizes now that we have gutters. The only case that's come up is if you have items with sub grids in which case being able to repeat a track listing would be helpful.
# [18:42] <Rossen_web> what about repeat(auto-fill, min-content)
# [18:42] <TabAtkins> The repeat(auto*) functions are only allowed in a "definite lengths only" variant of the track-list grammar.
# [18:42] <dael> fantasai: track listings inside the auto-repeat can only be fixed sizes.
# [18:43] <dael> Rossen_web: What happens when...It will have a non-trivial interaction with auto-placement, but also when you have auto-fill min-content where the size depends on the last piece of content.
# [18:43] <TabAtkins> Read your replies, Rossen_web ^_^
# [18:43] <fantasai> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-grid/#repeat-notation
# [18:43] <dael> fantasai: We forbid that. The way the algo works is you need to know how many columns you have before you can do placement. So if you're going to do as many columns will fit, you have to give a concrete size.
# [18:44] <dael> Rossen_web: Okay, that makes sense.
# [18:44] * Rossen_web TabAtkins, replies shmiplies
# [18:44] <fantasai> s/can do placement./can do placement, and you need to do placement before you can size the columns./
# [18:44] <dael> glazou: Objections to the proposal? To restrict auto-fill and auto-fit to onlu take single track sizes as an arguement.
# [18:45] <TabAtkins> Havne't identified? They were presented in the emails that asked for the feature.
# [18:45] * fantasai couldn't hear
# [18:45] <dael> astearns: I'm concerned we haven't IDed a use case for this. Gutters was certainly the most present one, but I think this might be prematurely restricting the expressivity of auto-repeat
# [18:45] <dael> Rossen_web: We can always decide to move this to level 2 if it happens to be not very useful or hard to impl.
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# [18:46] <astearns> sorry, expressed that badly. I'm concerned that there may be use cases for repetitions of multiple track sizes that we aren't considering
# [18:46] <dael> fantasai: I can call it out as an issue. There's two ways to handle it. Right now the spec says we could simplify this down. I could switch so that the spec says the single track and put in an issue that the WG isn't aware of sign. use cases for multiple track listings and if you have any, please make us aware. We have a few months before CR so we can put a call out.
# [18:47] <dael> fantasai: If people come back with test cases we can expand out the spec. If nobody comes back with anything we can turn the issue into a note that in a future level it may be expanded. Or we leave the spec as-is and keep asking for use cases to make it more interesting.
# [18:47] <fantasai> s/test cases/use cases/
# [18:47] <dael> glazou: Does that sound like a plan? Any preference?
# [18:47] <dael> Rossen_web: Any preference to...
# [18:47] <astearns> I'm fine with leaving multiple track size repetitions as a future expansion
# [18:47] <dael> glazou: There are two ways to handle it, she said, and highlighted the two ways.
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# [18:47] <fantasai> a) Ask for use cases, leave spec with full track-listing
# [18:48] <dael> Rossen_web: I prefer the second. Don't clutter the spec.
# [18:48] <fantasai> b) Simplify spec. Leave issue open asking for use cases, and switch back if needed. Turn the issue into a note at CR saying a future level might expand.
# [18:48] <dael> glazou: So fantasai Just typed in IRC [reads IRC]
# [18:48] <astearns> b sounds good to me
# [18:48] <Rossen_web> B
# [18:48] <gregwhitworth> B
# [18:48] <dael> glazou: So astearns and Rossen_web say B. Other opinions?
# [18:48] <TabAtkins> B
# [18:49] <dael> glazou: A few opinions for B.
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# [18:49] <Bert> abstain
# [18:49] <dael> glazou: objections to B?
# [18:49] * ChrisL b is okay
# [18:49] <dael> RESOLVED: Simplify spec. Leave issue open asking for use cases, and switch back if needed. Turn the issue into a note at CR saying a future level might expand.
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# [18:49] <dael> glazou: The next item might require someone from apple.
# [18:50] <dael> myles: I'm from Apple, but I'm not comfortable discussing this.
# [18:50] <TabAtkins> I'm fine with dropping; I think it's valuable, but not necessary for level 1.
# [18:50] <dael> fantasai: Can we get a resolution to republish Grid?
# [18:50] <TabAtkins> In favor. ^_^
# [18:50] <Bert> +1 publish
# [18:50] <ChrisL> +1
# [18:50] <dauwhe> Yep
# [18:50] <dael> glazou: Absolutely. In favor? Against?
# [18:50] <astearns> +1
# [18:50] <dael> Florian_: Sure.
# [18:50] <glazou> +1
# [18:50] <dael> RESOLVED: Republish Grid with the changes discussed above.
# [18:51] <dael> fantasai: There's a couple of things we need to clean up in the internals, but we're pretty much done so we're going to issue a last call for review and hopefully get everything wrapped up for TPAC.
# [18:51] <dael> ACTION everyone review Grid
# [18:51] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
# [18:51] <trackbot> Error finding 'everyone'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
# [18:51] <bkardell_> q?
# [18:51] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
# [18:51] <dael> Florian_: In general I think discussing scroll snap is good. With regards to dropping group snapping, it''s not something anyone hass.
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# [18:52] <dael> Florian_: Details of snapping if Apple needs time, let's take time. In regards to dropping group snapping, I don't think we should be gated since that was introduced in the new model as something we can do, but not something we had to do.
# [18:53] <dael> MaRakow: Group snapping isn't in level 1 currently. There was thought we wanted to put in before formalizing the proposal.
# [18:53] <dael> Florian_: The one I'm speaking of is the proposal from TabAtkins and fantasai to replace the current level 1.
# [18:53] <Rossen_web> http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/image/127627542697
# [18:53] <dael> fantasai: We can sort it out later. It's not controversial.
# [18:53] <dael> Topic: TTA
# [18:54] <dael> glazou: We need to make progress on that front. I got the messages about what needs to be done and what's going to be done. I wanted to say these are very visable specs and we need to move one with them. I'm going to review the other specs on our radar to see if we're lagging on any other specs and what has to be done. We can discuss that at TPAC.
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# [18:54] <dael> glazou: We have 5 minutes left. Anyone want to discuss something?
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# [18:55] <dael> Florian_: As a quick note I don't think there's an official message on the ML. We discussed the official Japanese industry meeting during TPAC and from what I've heard they're looking at Sunday afternoon. I think an offical responce is pending soon, but you may want to take that into account in your plans.
# [18:56] <dael> Florian_: The idea is that Japanese companies are interested in things like layout and writing-mode and they'd like to meet us. We're setting up a time for that and it's prob. Sunday afternoon before TPAC.
# [18:56] * fantasai lastlog bkardell_
# [18:56] <dael> glazou: Anything else?
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# [18:56] * fantasai sorry
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# [18:56] <dael> glazou: Okay. It's a shorter call. Thank you very much and see you next week.
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# [18:56] * MaRakow beedoop
# [18:56] <bkardell_> fantasai: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/09/the-future-of-layout-with-css-grid-layouts/
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# [18:56] <TabAtkins> 56 minutes "shorter call" ^_^
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# [18:57] <glazou> TabAtkins: eh
# [18:57] * dael fantasai- Just to check, did you get the Wednesday and Thursday e-mails? i.e. they didn't end up in your spam /again/?
# [18:57] <glazou> worst we did was 75 minutes TabAtkins
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# [18:57] <fantasai> yes, got them
# [18:57] * dael Thank you!
# [18:57] * fantasai needs to deal with that soon
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# [18:58] <TabAtkins> dael: I guess I can review the Houdini minutes?
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# [18:58] * dael TabAtkins That would be lovely if you would. I just started them this morning, so I likely won't have the first set to you before tomorrow or maybe Friday if that works okay for you.
# [18:59] <TabAtkins> No problem here.
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# [18:59] <dael> Sounds good! Thank you both.
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# [19:08] <fantasai> bkardell_: Message sent
# [19:09] <fantasai> bkardell_: Need to work on a11y warnings in Grid; we have a bunch in Flexbox, but haven't added equivalent sections to Grid
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# [19:10] <bcampbell> still on here, have task to review before Friday.
# [19:10] <bcampbell> grid, that is
# [19:11] <fantasai> bcampbell: ?
# [19:11] <bcampbell> Grid for a11y, sorry.
# [19:12] <bcampbell> btw, first eyes approve for the wyswyg... sent along to one more.
# [19:12] <fantasai> oh, I'm just saying, I have to add a11y text similar to what we have in Flexbox to the Grid spec -- it's missing currently.
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# [19:13] <bcampbell> about reordering?
# [19:13] <bcampbell> or about all a11y
# [19:14] <bcampbell> I was just piping in that I will help review it. But if you're adding the a11y and it hasn't happened, yet, maybe should wait?
# [19:14] <fantasai> about reordering
# [19:14] <bcampbell> oh
# [19:14] <bcampbell> ok
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# [19:48] <fantasai> dael: s/people teaching the ordering/writing tutorials and articles on 'order'/
# [19:49] <dael> fantasai: got it. Thanks.
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# [21:59] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Up for working on scroll-snap sometime this week?
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# [22:15] <TabAtkins> fantasai: This week is bad for me.
# [22:15] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Okay. Next week?
# [22:15] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I can do sometime next week.
# [22:15] <fantasai> I'm completely open, so how about Monday?
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# [22:18] <TabAtkins> Works for me.
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# Session Close: Thu Sep 10 00:00:00 2015

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