/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2015-10-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Oct 02 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  20. # [04:42] <dauwhe> fantasai: maybe sometime later in week of Oct 12, or early in the next week.
  21. # [05:09] * liam books a flight :)
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  61. # [19:32] <TabAtkins> plinss: Yo, I'd like to chat with you about exposing and scraping propdef table info, so I can compile propdef indexes across specs.
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  68. # [20:30] <fantasai> dauwhe: I can do the week of the 12th, but not that Friday; or I can do the Monday after if necessary. Flying out Tuesday.
  69. # [20:34] <dauwhe> fantasai: How about Wednesday the 14th? It seems traditional to meet on CSS day :)
  70. # [20:35] <fantasai> I think I can swing that
  71. # [20:35] <fantasai> Let me know if schedule changes, etc. I'm fairly flexible, since I've got no scheduled commitments except being in RI by noon that Friday
  72. # [20:36] <fantasai> (and, of course, flying out on Tuesday)
  73. # [20:38] <dauwhe> It's exciting to think of making progress on CSS Content :)
  74. # [20:51] <plinss> TabAtkins: hit me
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  77. # [21:03] <TabAtkins> plinss: So, um, what I said. Can we start scraping propdef/descdef/elementdef tables for their information, so I can retrieve it and generate cross-spec propdef indexes?
  78. # [21:04] <TabAtkins> We can either do this with the existing markup, or I can start outputting stuff in special attributes for you.
  79. # [21:06] <plinss> TabAtkins: yeah, I can add it, looking at the current markup now…
  80. # [21:14] <TabAtkins> plinss: Cool. All I really need is to be able to tell what spec it came from, so I can tell which propdefs to put into a given index.
  81. # [21:15] * fantasai back
  82. # [21:15] <plinss> do you want a different api call to get propdef data or should it be bundled into the anchor data?
  83. # [21:16] <plinss> TabAtkins: scraping the tables looks straightforward without extra markup
  84. # [21:16] <TabAtkins> That's what I thought.
  85. # [21:16] <fantasai> probably should be a different call, or at least different options; we already schlepping around a lot of data no?
  86. # [21:16] <TabAtkins> I don't care whether it's in the anchor data or another call.
  87. # [21:16] <TabAtkins> fantasai: It's only relevant when running `bikeshed update`
  88. # [21:17] <TabAtkins> And I'll want to normally pull all of that data anywya.
  89. # [21:17] <fantasai> fair
  90. # [21:17] <plinss> should I just store the data in the <td> as a string or parse it (like the value)
  91. # [21:17] <fantasai> that does take awhile though :)
  92. # [21:17] <TabAtkins> plinss: what do you mean by "parse"?
  93. # [21:17] <plinss> take https://drafts.csswg.org/css-grid/#track-sizing as an example
  94. # [21:18] <plinss> for the ‘value’ do you want: “none | <track-list> | <auto-track-list> | subgrid <line-name-list>?”
  95. # [21:18] <plinss> or a structure with the values broken out somehow
  96. # [21:18] <fantasai> string should be fine
  97. # [21:18] <TabAtkins> Ideally I'd like something I can still autolink with
  98. # [21:19] <plinss> (note that simply storing it as a string loses the links)
  99. # [21:19] <fantasai> the links will break if they're local anyway
  100. # [21:19] <fantasai> it needs to be reparsed by Bikeshed
  101. # [21:19] <TabAtkins> Yeah, this is why I was wondering about handing you the data manually in an attr, so I could preserve the markup appropraitely for autolinking.
  102. # [21:20] <fantasai> At the moment, we do need to pull data from old specs, though
  103. # [21:20] <fantasai> ones that aren't on bikeshed
  104. # [21:21] <plinss> fantasai: I can always fall back to the string value
  105. # [21:21] <TabAtkins> That's fine/irrelevant here.
  106. # [21:21] <plinss> so, yeah, putting structured data like that into an attr would help a lot, avoid parsing errors
  107. # [21:21] <plinss> s/attr/attrs
  108. # [21:22] <TabAtkins> Okay, so how about, if there's a data-original-markup on the <td>, use that, otherwise just use the string?
  109. # [21:22] <TabAtkins> That way I can control which fields get the treatment based on whether they need it or not.
  110. # [21:22] <plinss> TabAtkins: fine by me if that’s all you need
  111. # [21:23] <TabAtkins> I *think* so. I'll make the changes on my side, and we'll see how well it works.
  112. # [21:23] <plinss> do you need to know if I used the data-original-markup value?
  113. # [21:23] <TabAtkins> No.
  114. # [21:23] <plinss> ok
  115. # [21:23] <TabAtkins> I do need escaping to be consistent, though.
  116. # [21:23] <TabAtkins> So I guess if you take the string, html-escape it?
  117. # [21:23] <plinss> how about no?
  118. # [21:24] <plinss> :-)
  119. # [21:24] <TabAtkins> I mean, I obviously can't have both "<a ...>foo</a>" and "<track-list>" coexisting in the dataset.
  120. # [21:24] <plinss> I was thinking if I take the string I’d be stripping all the markup
  121. # [21:25] <TabAtkins> Yes.
  122. # [21:25] <TabAtkins> But that doesn't help "<track-list>"
  123. # [21:25] <plinss> you’d get that as literally: “<track-list>”
  124. # [21:25] <plinss> so why do you need it escaped?
  125. # [21:25] <TabAtkins> And that's the problem I'm pointing to. That's not okay, because I'll *also* have raw HTML (when you take a data-original-markup value)
  126. # [21:26] <TabAtkins> So I can't tell whether a < is supposed to be a less-than sign or a tag start.
  127. # [21:26] <fantasai> why not pull the data and relink it?
  128. # [21:26] <fantasai> plaintext
  129. # [21:26] <fantasai> You know it's a value
  130. # [21:26] <fantasai> you know what property it's for
  131. # [21:26] <fantasai> That's all the information you usually have to generate a link
  132. # [21:26] <TabAtkins> Because people sometimes have to specify autolinking details to disambiguate things.
  133. # [21:27] <fantasai> sure, but the thing you're specifying is what property it's for
  134. # [21:27] <fantasai> and that's information you have already
  135. # [21:27] <TabAtkins> Not always, no.
  136. # [21:27] <TabAtkins> Autolinks can exist in more than just the Values: line!
  137. # [21:27] <fantasai> no?
  138. # [21:27] <fantasai> oh, you mean in the rest of the propdef table
  139. # [21:27] <fantasai> That's a lot less important
  140. # [21:28] <fantasai> If you don't link anything in the rest of the propdef table for the index
  141. # [21:28] <fantasai> that's fine
  142. # [21:28] <TabAtkins> Doesn't matter, it's still important imo.
  143. # [21:28] <TabAtkins> No reason to fall down here.
  144. # [21:28] <fantasai> It's not. It's an index table
  145. # [21:28] <fantasai> just click on the property to get the full definition
  146. # [21:28] <fantasai> Most people will be looking to click on either the property name or a value name
  147. # [21:28] <fantasai> they don't care about Computed Value or other things like that
  148. # [21:29] <fantasai> not on a propindex table
  149. # [21:29] <TabAtkins> That's cool, but again, there's no reason for me to fall down on this. It's not more difficult to handle than not.
  150. # [21:29] <fantasai> We don't even include those in the table
  151. # [21:29] <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS/#properties
  152. # [21:30] <fantasai> It's the name, value, applies to, inherited, percentages, and media
  153. # [21:30] <TabAtkins> And anyway, I'm not super-enthused about having to reparse possibly-ambiguous naked text with the assumption that it'll reverse in a simple way.
  154. # [21:30] <TabAtkins> "Applies to" matters too
  155. # [21:31] <plinss> So, back to escaping, not sure why you need html escaping on my end
  156. # [21:32] <TabAtkins> plinss: Because someone can write, in their markup, "&lt;foo>", which when you grab the plain text, will look like "<foo>", which when fed back to Bikeshed, will look like markup.
  157. # [21:32] <TabAtkins> And Bikeshed will have other fields which *do* contain markup (via the data-original-markup attribute), so it needs to be able to tell consistently whether something is markup or not.
  158. # [21:32] <TabAtkins> Either with an indicator in the data, or with the data just being self-consistent.
  159. # [21:34] <plinss> ok, got it, so when I don’t have a data-original-markup you just need anything that looks like markup to be entities instead
  160. # [21:34] <plinss> (after I strop all the actual markup)
  161. # [21:34] <TabAtkins> Yes.
  162. # [21:34] <plinss> s/strop/strip/
  163. # [21:34] <plinss> I’m good with that
  164. # [21:34] <TabAtkins> Which is just the &< conversion.
  165. # [21:34] <plinss> right
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  168. # [22:36] <fantasai> plinss: pushing seems to hang a lot atm, fwiw
  169. # [22:43] <TabAtkins> *pushing to hg
  170. # [22:43] <fantasai> yeah, it's totally hung up now
  171. # [22:43] <fantasai> and github mirror is behind >_<;
  172. # [22:56] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) ("")
  173. # [23:16] <fantasai> Discussing scroll-snapping
  174. # [23:16] <fantasai> Map case is clear use case for 2D
  175. # [23:16] <fantasai> but most cases will want 1D snapping
  176. # [23:16] <fantasai> should make that easy to get, easiest to get
  177. # [23:17] <fantasai> because don't want authors to get 2D snapping unless they think about it and want it in
  178. # [23:17] <fantasai> should not be dependent on how the alignment is specified
  179. # [23:17] <fantasai> because 1D start snapping and center snapping ar both legit uses
  180. # [23:17] <fantasai> so need some other way to distinguish....
  181. # [23:17] * fantasai is dumping notes into IRC from discussion with Tab
  182. # [23:19] * Quits: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak) ("Leaving...")
  183. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> align: <position-1d> | [ block <position-1d> || inline <position-1d> ] | align <position-2d>
  184. # [23:30] <fantasai> <p> | [ x <p> || y <p> ] | xy <p>
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  186. # [23:34] <fantasai> <position-1d> = start | end | center | <percentage> | <length> | edges
  187. # [23:35] <fantasai> <position-1d> = start | end | center | edges | <percentage>
  188. # [23:37] <fantasai> <position-2d> = <position-1d>{1,2}
  189. # [23:37] <fantasai> ?
  190. # [23:41] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  191. # [23:41] <fantasai> Discussiong bgposition syntax vs alignment syntax
  192. # [23:41] <fantasai> Allowing <length>s here is harmful, because we have the scroll-snap margin for adjusting the scroll snap area box
  193. # [23:41] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
  194. # [23:42] <fantasai> <length> here would duplicate the functionality
  195. # [23:42] <fantasai> We resolve the conflict on the UA side by adding, that's easy, but it creates a cascading problem
  196. # [23:42] <fantasai> complicates the model for authors because 2 ways to do the same thing
  197. # [23:42] <fantasai> that interact in unexpected ways if different bits of code try to do it with different techniques
  198. # [23:43] <fantasai> scroll-snap margin gives better behavior because it affects the scrollable area
  199. # [23:43] <fantasai> the common thing (show more space) is positive
  200. # [23:43] <fantasai> and it handles overflow better, which helps the user
  201. # [23:43] <fantasai> So it's best to not provide <length>, and to guid the author down the path of scroll-snap-margin
  202. # [23:43] * plinss fantasai: server/pushing should be sorted now
  203. # [23:44] <fantasai> <position-1d> aligns with the alignment properties
  204. # [23:44] <fantasai> <percentage> is new, but would totally make sense there inasmuch as it makes sense here
  205. # [23:44] <fantasai> the cases where you'd use it are similar
  206. # [23:44] <fantasai> it represents a percentage between start and end
  207. # [23:45] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  208. # [23:45] * fantasai plinss thanks
  209. # [23:51] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  210. # [23:55] <fantasai> +longhands for padding: trbl
  211. # [23:56] <fantasai> +longhands for area; trbl
  212. # [23:57] <fantasai> drop scroll-snap-group
  213. # [23:57] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) (estellevw)
  214. # Session Close: Sat Oct 03 00:00:00 2015

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