/irc-logs / w3c / #fx / 2011-07-27 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Wed Jul 27 01:08:25 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #fx
  3. # 02[01:08] * Logging for #fx started
  4. # [01:08] <smfr> ok
  5. # 04[01:08] * hober ChrisL: sure, but krijn's logs are way nicer. :)
  6. # 04[01:08] <anne> krijnh, yeah
  7. # [01:09] <ChrisL> the problem with this is that it removes sRGB as a baseline and replaces 'dio what you want' as the baseline
  8. # 10[01:09] <krijnh> And offline once in a while :)
  9. # [01:09] <nimbu> tantek: do u have doc of support somewhere?
  10. # [01:09] <nimbu> smfr: will check.
  11. # 04[01:09] <anne> krijnh, if you can handle that :)
  12. # [01:09] <nimbu> tantek: post url to doc if it exists.
  13. # 10[01:09] <krijnh> anne: fixing the auto cache refresh thing right now
  14. # [01:10] <nimbu> Topic: SVG parameters in CSS in relation to CSS Variables
  15. # [01:10] <ChrisL> s/throwing stuff/throwing stuff at the screen/
  16. # [01:10] <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_2011/Agenda/SVGParamsUrlSyntax
  17. # 02[01:10] * Quits: tantek (tantek@72.254.90.199) (Quit: tantek)
  18. # 03[01:11] * Joins: tpod (tpod@72.254.63.62)
  19. # [01:12] <nimbu> shepazu: we would like to consider csswg want to do smthing like this.
  20. # [01:12] <nimbu> TabAtkins: in ref to combining efforts, csswg is interested in pursuing vars.
  21. # 10[01:13] <krijnh> anne: done, every night around 00:10
  22. # [01:13] <nimbu> TabAtkins: params can work in with concept of vars such that you would put params and they would create vars.
  23. # 10[01:13] <krijnh> Windows Task Scheduler ftw :')
  24. # 03[01:14] * Joins: tpod_ (tpod@66.87.4.241)
  25. # [01:14] <nimbu> shepazu: i thought you would decl. canonical what is the var, and explicitly say this would be the param for that var
  26. # [01:14] <nimbu> TabAtkins: urs is probably a better idea.
  27. # [01:14] <anne> s/urs/yours/
  28. # 10[01:15] <krijnh> anne, hober: logging this channel as well, will add them to my site somewhere this week
  29. # [01:15] <nimbu> shepazu: # syntax has been overloaded by media fragments.
  30. # [01:15] <nimbu> shepazu: 3rd syntax is x-pointer style function that enclose vars in would be best way forward.
  31. # [01:16] <nimbu> shepazu: imagine those are .css files. you are passing in a list of parameters within paranthesis
  32. # [01:16] <smfr> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/param/master/SVGParamPrimer.html
  33. # 02[01:16] * Quits: tpod (tpod@72.254.63.62) (Ping timeout)
  34. # 03[01:16] * tpod_ is now known as tpod
  35. # [01:16] <shepazu> fill="param(color) blue"
  36. # [01:17] <nimbu> shepazu: if param is not passed in, use this keyword
  37. # [01:17] <shepazu> x="calc(param(coordx)+10%)"
  38. # [01:18] <tpod> Thanks everyone. I'll keel lurking as long as this connection holds.
  39. # [01:18] <nimbu> shepazu: is there any problem with this?
  40. # [01:18] <tpod> *keep
  41. # [01:18] <nimbu> heycam: for vars you know ahead of time.
  42. # [01:20] <nimbu> florian: csswg did not express interest in variables but only allow tab to work on his draft.
  43. # [01:20] <nimbu> florian: vars were global to the page, but params are stylesheet local and would make people who hate variables hate them more
  44. # [01:22] <nimbu> shepazu: my q is given this is smthing we are interested in adding in svg. if you want to add this in the future in css, is this acceptable in broad terms
  45. # [01:22] <nimbu> TabAtkins: some of the qs raised against my proposal are valid here. are they changable by script?
  46. # [01:22] <nimbu> shepazu: yes
  47. # [01:22] <nimbu> shepazu: the HTML WG is not interested in changing the params thing
  48. # [01:23] <nimbu> TabAtkins: presumably there would some script based api to easily handle them rather than parse them urself
  49. # [01:23] <nimbu> shepazu: smone proposed a url parsing api.
  50. # [01:23] <nimbu> anne: adam barth is working on that.
  51. # [01:23] <nimbu> shepazu: maybe we just plug this into abarth's thing
  52. # [01:23] <nimbu> anne: is this not like param elms?
  53. # [01:23] <nimbu> shepazu: at one point it was, but they didnt like that.
  54. # [01:24] <nimbu> heycam: as in specify value of params in the url.
  55. # [01:24] <nimbu> shepazu: there are param elements. if only thing we can do is url syntax that is okay with me
  56. # [01:24] <nimbu> shepazu: this is a diff kind of param passing
  57. # [01:25] <nimbu> heycam: adam barth proposed to get query string, this is stuff embedded in frame.
  58. # [01:25] <nimbu> heycam: its going to hit the network every time.
  59. # [01:25] <nimbu> TabAtkins: i dont like the way u are defining right now to use a param with default val.
  60. # [01:26] <nimbu> TabAtkins: u cannot use the syntax if you use fill property in css.
  61. # [01:27] <nimbu> TabAtkins: if u want default values on params pre decl them
  62. # [01:28] <nimbu> shepazu: that was in org version of spec, but dropped as people didnt like
  63. # [01:28] <nimbu> shepazu: what would be better for css
  64. # [01:29] <nimbu> TabAtkins: anything where u have space separated value becomes ambiguous with what is there right now. this is problem in css and maybe for future svg things
  65. # [01:29] <ChrisL> %20 is your freind
  66. # [01:29] <ChrisL> url escaped space
  67. # [01:29] <nimbu> ACTION: shepazu propose a couple of diff syntax and submit them for wider review and see what people think about them and ping csswg
  68. # 06[01:29] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  69. # 06[01:29] * RRSAgent records action 26
  70. # [01:29] <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Propose a couple of diff syntax and submit them for wider review and see what people think about them and ping csswg [on Doug Schepers - due 2011-08-02].
  71. # [01:30] <nimbu> TabAtkins: nothing to do with spaces in param decl but in param use
  72. # [01:30] <nimbu> TabAtkins: param blue foo is ambiguous if you are specifying fallback or another value
  73. # [01:31] <ChrisL> syntactic spaces considered harmful. syntactic spaces as ancestor selectors, doubly so
  74. # [01:31] <nimbu> TabAtkins: if u use param in a path, it would be THE example.
  75. # [01:31] <plinss_> param(name, default)
  76. # [01:33] <ed> Topic: FX transforms
  77. # [01:33] <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_2011/Agenda/FXTransforms
  78. # [01:33] <nimbu> vhardy: agree on how we can go about doing this. I can help with editing the doc.
  79. # [01:33] <nimbu> heycam: who are editors of current doc?
  80. # [01:34] <nimbu> vhardy: dean chris simon and we also had anthony
  81. # 06[01:34] * ChrisL heard my name but little else
  82. # [01:34] <nimbu> vhardy: what we want here is to understand what we need as next step.
  83. # 06[01:34] * dbaron is having trouble hearing too
  84. # [01:34] <nimbu> vhardy: i just want to know how we go about producing a new document.
  85. # [01:34] <nimbu> dino: you run into issue of how to combine with svg if u call it css transforms
  86. # 02[01:35] * Quits: tpod (tpod@66.87.4.241) (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
  87. # 02[01:35] * Quits: shans (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  88. # [01:35] <nimbu> vhardy: soln is to say its css transform. there are only 2 ways to combine them.
  89. # [01:35] <nimbu> heycam: i seem to be the only one in fav of turning into a property
  90. # [01:36] <nimbu> heycam: the fact that transform dom attr does not translate to property names…
  91. # [01:36] <nimbu> heycam: arg against turn into property is what svg dom access to transform stuff means. i dont think its impossible to design smthing
  92. # [01:37] <nimbu> vhardy: if we agree on putting together a doc. we agree on intent to combine them.
  93. # [01:37] <nimbu> smfr: want a time frame as we already have implementations of css transforms
  94. # [01:37] <nimbu> vhardy: is it okay if we try to advance 2d first and then 3d
  95. # [01:38] <nimbu> smfr: it is simple to have 1 doc, but we have multiple impl. of 2d transforms.
  96. # [01:38] <nimbu> dbaron: we are getting a few pieces of 3d transforms in
  97. # [01:38] <nimbu> shepazu: by the time we finish this spec would we not have 2 impl.
  98. # [01:38] <nimbu> vhardy: is that not likely?
  99. # [01:38] <dbaron> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505115
  100. # [01:39] <nimbu> smfr: for 3d transforms the impl would be more widely varied.
  101. # [01:39] <nimbu> smfr: there are no obv conflicts in om.
  102. # 03[01:39] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@72.254.90.148)
  103. # [01:39] <nimbu> sylvaing: i wouldnt want to take risk of doing 3d if smthing changes in 2d.
  104. # [01:40] <nimbu> dino: that relies on css om. we removed that css values have still been deprecated.
  105. # [01:40] <nimbu> sylvaing: we need a better def for 3D anyway.
  106. # [01:40] <nimbu> vhardy: goes into direction of might as well have one spec.
  107. # [01:40] <nimbu> shepazu: is anyone not using 2d transforms coz its not standardized?
  108. # [01:41] <nimbu> dbaron: it is a pain for the authors coz of prefixes
  109. # [01:41] <nimbu> shepazu: bigger pain if we get it wrong
  110. # [01:41] <nimbu> sylvaing: do i prefix only 3d?
  111. # [01:41] <nimbu> smfr: fair point as you can mix 2d & 3d functions
  112. # [01:41] <nimbu> heycam: are there no more open issues on 2d?
  113. # [01:41] <nimbu> smfr: there are def issues w.r.t svg and css
  114. # [01:42] <nimbu> smfr: the issue with dropping prefix on 2d and not on 3d might have a workaround.
  115. # [01:42] <nimbu> smfr: it is possible to pass 3d transform functions, and throw away the z parts.
  116. # [01:42] <nimbu> dino: if they wanted to do 3d they can use prefix and the prefixed one beats the unprefixed one.
  117. # [01:43] <nimbu> smfr: you wouldnt want to do that.
  118. # 02[01:43] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@72.254.90.148) (Ping timeout)
  119. # [01:43] <nimbu> vhardy: my pref is to make it one doc and work out the issues we have and move forward.
  120. # [01:43] <nimbu> smfr: ideally that would be mine too, but i think it would take 2 years
  121. # [01:43] <nimbu> vhardy: it does not hurt to have one spec if its the hold up.
  122. # [01:44] <nimbu> dino: we say we want to know what it should be.
  123. # [01:44] <nimbu> anne: the thing with om you cant really pull transforms in front of designing the value api.
  124. # [01:45] <nimbu> smfr: transforms are a good test case for value api
  125. # [01:45] <nimbu> sylvaing: try to drop prefixes on the property but the om can have the prefixes.
  126. # [01:45] <nimbu> smfr: probably apply the same for gradients
  127. # 03[01:45] * Joins: tpod (tpod@66.87.4.241)
  128. # [01:46] <nimbu> anne: webkit still has the old value api. all the new apis are designed around premise of keeping around that api.
  129. # [01:46] <nimbu> anne: that seems bad as we abandonded it around 2003 or 4
  130. # [01:46] <nimbu> shepazu: this does not resolve question of svg and css
  131. # [01:46] <nimbu> smfr: does resolve prefix droppping on 2d and not on 3d
  132. # [01:47] <nimbu> anne: why cant we drop for 3d.
  133. # [01:47] <nimbu> smfr: we dont have more than 1 impl and there will be lots of issues when there are more.
  134. # [01:47] <nimbu> dbaron: i would be interested in figuring out what you do wrong.
  135. # [01:48] <nimbu> dino: would property change even if impl is undefined.
  136. # [01:48] <nimbu> smfr: the values and property are fairly stable. svg might add a few things.
  137. # [01:48] <nimbu> smfr: there is an issue with units in matrix
  138. # [01:48] <nimbu> dbaron: issue of whether we want px as base unit, or get unit right in "some sense"
  139. # [01:49] <nimbu> dbaron: i am less confident in the stability of other properties in 3d transforms.
  140. # [01:49] <nimbu> smfr: we should start filing issues somewhere
  141. # [01:50] <nimbu> shepazu: it seems like people think this is priority. is that right?
  142. # [01:50] <nimbu> smfr: i think so.
  143. # [01:50] <nimbu> shepazu: we can make lot of progress if we start pushing this.
  144. # [01:50] <nimbu> dino: the progress is all being in stuff thats stable and existing, the work to be done to merge the two specs is how does svg become transform properties
  145. # [01:51] <nimbu> ChrisL: it is better that way to style if we multiply together
  146. # [01:52] <nimbu> dino: it becomes harder if you want to make all svg attr properties then you would have two properties
  147. # [01:52] <nimbu> heycam: convert to property and use css one.
  148. # [01:52] <ChrisL> "we dont need to keeparound SVG transforms" uh huh, make every single piece of svg non conformant at a stroke ....
  149. # [01:52] <nimbu> heycam: what do others think about turning svg transform attr into a property
  150. # [01:52] <ChrisL> turning it into a property makes it apply to all elements
  151. # [01:53] <nimbu> shepazu: deal with legacy transform attr deal with it as we did, going forward use css transforms
  152. # [01:53] <nimbu> heycam: i dont want to put transform inside style.
  153. # [01:54] <nimbu> shepazu: whats the downside
  154. # [01:54] <nimbu> heycam: we need to make sure the syntax is compat and make sure existing one would work
  155. # [01:54] <nimbu> heycam: needto define what access to SVG transform means
  156. # [01:55] <nimbu> heycam: i think we can come up with smthing reasonable.
  157. # [01:55] <nimbu> heycam: i was hoping we would resolve syntax comat problems anyway.
  158. # [01:55] <nimbu> ??: would 3d apply to svg.
  159. # [01:55] <nimbu> heycam: there are plans to.
  160. # [01:56] <nimbu> vhardy: smfr u were talking about applying 3d transforms to svg right?
  161. # [01:56] <nimbu> smfr: yep
  162. # [01:56] <stearns> s/??/Jennifer
  163. # [01:58] <smfr> ChrisL: you're rustling
  164. # 06[01:58] * ChrisL sorry
  165. # [01:58] <nimbu> ed: look at … in svg tiny
  166. # 06[01:58] * shepazu ChrisL, do you have enough to share with everyone?
  167. # 06[01:58] * ChrisL will eat his mint Magnum mor quietly
  168. # [01:59] <ed> s/look at … in svg tiny/look at TraitAccess in svg tiny 1.2, it allows fetching both baseVal and animVal for properties as well as for normal attributes/
  169. # [02:01] <nimbu> RESOLVED: Turn transform attribute into a CSS property and heycam to investigate and write a proposal to what SVG DOM does in this situation
  170. # [02:01] <nimbu> ACTION: heycam to investigate and write a proposal to what SVG DOM does when svg transform attribute becomes a css property
  171. # 06[02:01] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  172. # 06[02:01] * RRSAgent records action 27
  173. # [02:01] <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Investigate and write a proposal to what SVG DOM does when svg transform attribute becomes a css property [on Cameron McCormack - due 2011-08-02].
  174. # [02:01] <nimbu> dino: we still got the question on merging the spec.
  175. # [02:02] <nimbu> dino: the transforms spec requires units in translations.
  176. # [02:02] <nimbu> smfr: transform-origin changes
  177. # [02:02] <nimbu> heycam: u still worried about slight differences in svg and css.
  178. # [02:02] <ChrisL> yeah lets kill the units requirement
  179. # 06[02:02] * ChrisL drops off skype for a moment before his icecream melts
  180. # [02:02] <nimbu> dino: making one unified spec isnt just adding 3d stuff but also combining unitless and united transform fns and maybe differences in transform origin
  181. # [02:04] <nimbu> heycam: we should try to resolve any diff we can and put the restl as slight differences between presentation and property
  182. # [02:04] <nimbu> ed: some of the issues have been resolved in fx transforms draft e.g. transform-origin has been resolved.
  183. # [02:05] <nimbu> dino: the most dangerous difference is smthing like transform scale(2) and expect it to apply to a bunch of elms some of which are svg and html.
  184. # [02:05] <nimbu> heycam: hows origin resolved?
  185. # [02:05] <nimbu> ed: i think svg elements it was moved to smthing else.
  186. # [02:05] <nimbu> anne: svg elms can have different origin specified
  187. # [02:06] <nimbu> heycam: are u saying it could be confusing?
  188. # [02:06] <nimbu> dino: yeah
  189. # [02:06] <nimbu> anne: svg has diff co-ordinate model than css anyway
  190. # [02:06] <nimbu> ed: we can specify same co-ordinate model as svg.
  191. # [02:07] <nimbu> dino: next step is to find someone who wants to do it.
  192. # [02:07] <nimbu> heycam: i have to look at transforms stuff and look at impact to svg
  193. # [02:07] <nimbu> vhardy: i am willing to help.
  194. # [02:08] <dbaron> Sounds like there are at least some :hover editors :-)
  195. # [02:09] <nimbu> dino: i am oaky if you(vhardy) took it over
  196. # [02:09] <nimbu> vhardy: heycam has a bunch of items that anthony had.
  197. # [02:09] <nimbu> smfr: i am willing to edit some of the 3d parts
  198. # [02:09] <nimbu> vhardy: i am not ready to do it just by myself.
  199. # [02:10] <nimbu> dino: the stuff that needs to be done is the difficult part.
  200. # [02:10] <nimbu> vhardy: i like someone to work with me on editing an wording the svg stuff
  201. # 03[02:10] * Joins: tpod_ (tpod@66.87.4.241)
  202. # 02[02:10] * Quits: tpod (tpod@66.87.4.241) (Ping timeout)
  203. # 03[02:11] * tpod_ is now known as tpod
  204. # [02:11] <nimbu> smfr: i would like other implementors to start filing issues
  205. # [02:11] <ed> s/we can specify same co-ordinate model as svg./you can specify transform-origin:50%,50% explicitly for svg to get the same origin as for other elements/
  206. # [02:11] <nimbu> dbaron: whats the tracking mechanism?
  207. # [02:11] <nimbu> vhardy: we have a wiki page.
  208. # [02:11] <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Seattle_2011/Agenda/FXTransforms
  209. # [02:11] <nimbu> smfr: wiki is fine.
  210. # [02:12] <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/FX-Taskforce/2DTransformsToDoList
  211. # [02:13] <nimbu> vhardy: we agree to do one spec and call it 'css transforms'?
  212. # [02:13] <nimbu> smfr: there is confusion with xslt transform
  213. # [02:13] <nimbu> smfr: so we need a prefix
  214. # 06[02:13] * ChrisL smiles at mention of xsl transforms
  215. # 02[02:14] * Quits: tpod (tpod@66.87.4.241) (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
  216. # [02:14] <nimbu> RESOLVED: The CSS 2d, 3d, SVG 2d and 3d, FX transforms spec are going to be combined into one CSS Transforms spec.
  217. # [02:15] <nimbu> ACTION: vhardy to work with heycam dino smfr to work on the new spec for CSS Transforms.
  218. # 06[02:15] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  219. # 06[02:15] * RRSAgent records action 28
  220. # [02:15] <trackbot> Created ACTION-52 - Work with heycam dino smfr to work on the new spec for CSS Transforms. [on Vincent Hardy - due 2011-08-03].
  221. # [02:15] <nimbu> dbaron: i have mixed feelings, as 2d is more stable than 3d.
  222. # [02:15] <nimbu> dbaron: last TPAC we had a resolution to get css 2d get to CR more quickly
  223. # 02[02:16] * Quits: alexmog (alexmog@72.254.92.49) (Ping timeout)
  224. # [02:16] <nimbu> dino: boris, dbaron and sylvaing had comments on css 2d
  225. # [02:16] <nimbu> vhardy: i will work with you smfr dino to figure out what would be the best base to start from.
  226. # [02:17] <nimbu> dbaron: we can still advance the current specification
  227. # [02:17] <nimbu> florian: so combined spec becomes css 4
  228. # [02:18] <dbaron> dbaron: I think we should keep the option open to advance 2-D, but I'm ok with going ahead with this approach.
  229. # [02:18] <nimbu> dino: it is just interesting that we have a spec that could possibly enter cr and we are not progressing it.
  230. # [02:18] <nimbu> shepazu: do we have tests for it?
  231. # [02:19] <nimbu> smfr: we have some test cases that are being worked on
  232. # [02:19] <nimbu> shepazu: if people want to push css2d before css2d and 3d go for it.
  233. # [02:19] <nimbu> heycam: i dont think its a problem
  234. # [02:19] <nimbu> heycam: its only a problem if we need to make changes to css2d spec.
  235. # [02:20] <nimbu> heycam: i dont see how spec organization impacts 3d.
  236. # [02:21] <nimbu> smfr: how do u ship a browser that supports prefixed or unprefixed.
  237. # [02:21] <nimbu> heycam: thats a q regardless of whether they are in same spec or not
  238. # [02:21] <nimbu> smfr: if in same spec u can drop prefixes at once.
  239. # [02:21] <nimbu> heycam: is that the convention?
  240. # [02:21] <nimbu> smfr: yeah one module yeah.
  241. # [02:22] <nimbu> shepazu: having a 2d spec does not resolve the issue
  242. # [02:22] <nimbu> smfr: thats true.
  243. # [02:22] <nimbu> heycam: is the convention to drop prefix once we get to CR?
  244. # [02:23] <nimbu> dbaron: convention is to drop prefix once u go to CR and get the test suite
  245. # [02:23] <nimbu> shepazu: we have no problems with anyone pushing 2D stuff, even putting it into CR.
  246. # [02:23] <nimbu> smfr: i think thats fine. we will figure out how to deal with prefix issue when it comes up.
  247. # [02:25] <nimbu> smfr: the combined spec is a good thing in long term, if we decide we want to we can accelerate the 2d spec separately and we will figure out internally issues related to dropping the prefix smhow.
  248. # [02:27] <nimbu> vhardy: we could have a draft by TPAC for transforms
  249. # [02:27] <nimbu> ed: for filters how long it would take?
  250. # [02:28] <nimbu> dino: i can have it done by the week.
  251. # [02:28] <ed> topic: publishing schedule
  252. # [02:28] <nimbu> dino: everyone has agreed we can publish it as first WD
  253. # 03[02:30] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@72.254.92.49)
  254. # 03[02:30] * Joins: tantek (tantek@64.141.94.226)
  255. # [02:30] <nimbu> vhardy: discuss on friday how much progress we can make w.r.t compositing
  256. # [02:31] <nimbu> cabanier: how 3d transforms work with compositing and filters. as compositing assumes 2D.
  257. # [02:31] <nimbu> dino: we do specify some form of flattening in the 3D spec. it is a bit of mlack magic at this moment.
  258. # [02:31] <nimbu> vhardy: can u discuss this smtime tomorrow?
  259. # [02:32] <nimbu> ed: thats all on the agenda i could squeeze a bit about the testing
  260. # [02:32] <nimbu> ed: plinss currently the svg test suite is not using the test harness, it could be useful.
  261. # [02:32] <plinss_> test.csswg.org/harness
  262. # [02:33] <ed> topic: testing harness overview
  263. # 06[02:33] * ChrisL mutter mutter quiet mutter
  264. # [02:33] <bradk> I have to take off. I wish all travelers a bon voyage.
  265. # [02:33] <nimbu> plinss: it presents all the test in a test suite
  266. # [02:33] <bradk> bye!
  267. # [02:33] <nimbu> plinss: it computes what order …
  268. # 02[02:34] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  269. # [02:34] <nimbu> plinss: there are metadata embedded in the test which links back to the url.
  270. # [02:34] <nimbu> plinss: presents your test in an iframe,. test can be multiple formats in a tabbed interface.
  271. # [02:34] <nimbu> plinss: upper right hand corner you have current results known by rendering engine
  272. # [02:34] <nimbu> plinss: it is doing manual testing visual.
  273. # [02:35] <nimbu> plinss: it has a bunch of reporting system.
  274. # [02:35] <nimbu> plinss: shows detailed results gathered thro that particular tests, user agent.
  275. # [02:35] <nimbu> plinss: full flushed out test file.
  276. # [02:36] <nimbu> you can also see results by portions of the spec.
  277. # [02:36] <plinss_> http://test.csswg.org/annotations/css21/
  278. # [02:36] <nimbu> plinss: there is a spec annotation system
  279. # [02:37] <nimbu> plinss: tests show up for each section
  280. # [02:38] <nimbu> plinss: it injects that annotation mark.
  281. # [02:38] <nimbu> plinss: annotations link back to the harness
  282. # [02:39] <nimbu> plinss: the title for each annotation takes u to the test itself.
  283. # [02:39] <nimbu> shepazu: how do u put this into the spec?
  284. # [02:39] <nimbu> plinss: 1 line of script
  285. # [02:39] <nimbu> alan: how does it display if a section does not have tests? maybe it should display red.
  286. # [02:40] <nimbu> plinss: not every section needs tests
  287. # [02:41] <nimbu> plinss: there are some features that are exposed in the ui, you can enter another UA string.
  288. # [02:41] <nimbu> plinss: I run a cron that takes all the results and figures out where tests are needed most to get to CR
  289. # [02:43] <nimbu> plinss: there is an instance of this running on 23c server
  290. # [02:43] <nimbu> plinss: its all open source.
  291. # 02[02:43] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169) (Client exited)
  292. # [02:43] <nimbu> shepazu: so in svg i cant tell can u do side by side comparisons?
  293. # [02:43] <plinss_> http://test.csswg.org/harness/test/CSS21_DEV/flag/reftest/
  294. # 02[02:44] * Quits: anne (annevk@72.254.83.34) (Ping timeout)
  295. # [02:44] <florian> s/i/I/
  296. # [02:44] <nimbu> plinss: you can do back and forth side by side.
  297. # [02:44] <florian> s/cant/can't
  298. # [02:44] <florian> s/u/you/
  299. # [02:45] <nimbu> plinss: can specify it must look like this page, AND this page and NOT like this page.
  300. # [02:45] <nimbu> plinss: the reference can be plain reference file or another test.
  301. # [02:45] <nimbu> shepazu: can we resolve to move to this in SVG 2?
  302. # [02:46] <nimbu> ed: i am most interested is the ability for sections to have their own tests
  303. # [02:46] <nimbu> shepazu: even if u dont do tests in this harness you can post reports.
  304. # [02:47] <ed> s/ ability for sections to have their own tests/ ability to see the test+results in each spec sections/
  305. # [02:47] <nimbu> plinss: i believe mozilla and webkit have their own systems to run automated tests and they can export it to the harness.
  306. # 03[02:47] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@24.42.93.245)
  307. # [02:48] <plinss_> http://w3c-test.org/framework/
  308. # 02[02:49] * Quits: vhardy (vhardy@72.254.89.196) (Quit: vhardy)
  309. # [02:50] <nimbu> TabAtkins: mainly for csswg, could people respond to thread of background-print property
  310. # [02:50] <TabAtkins_> >
  311. # [02:50] <TabAtkins_> > --
  312. # [02:50] <TabAtkins_> > Joshua Ganderson | Front End Software Engineer | jganderson@google.com | 512.627.1539
  313. # [02:50] <plinss_> http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/nightly-unstable/report/
  314. # [02:51] <TabAtkins_> >
  315. # [02:51] <TabAtkins_> > --
  316. # [02:51] <TabAtkins_> > Joshua Ganderson | Front End Software Engineer | jganderson@google.com | 512.627.1539
  317. # [02:51] <TabAtkins_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jul/0341.html
  318. # 03[02:53] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  319. # [02:54] <nimbu> TabAtkins: soln suggested by glazou to have authors override default UA stylesheets is not feasible as browsers do not want authors to override UA styles
  320. # 02[02:54] * Quits: glazou (glazou@72.254.60.179) (Quit: glazou)
  321. # 03[02:55] * Joins: anne (annevk@72.254.83.34)
  322. # [02:55] <nimbu> plinss: i have no problem to override it, the default needs to be auto. we need smthing in css when user pref is auto.
  323. # [02:56] <nimbu> glazou: in your opinion auto is do not print bg until the author says print background
  324. # [02:56] <nimbu> plinss: there is no way to change default.
  325. # [02:56] <nimbu> TabAtkins: background-print is just an element property.
  326. # [02:58] <nimbu> ed: adjourned.
  327. # 06[02:58] * nimbu yays
  328. # 02[02:59] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@72.254.63.25) (Quit: stearns)
  329. # 03[02:59] * Joins: stearns (anonymous@72.254.63.25)
  330. # 02[02:59] * Quits: birtles (chatzilla@72.254.87.44) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
  331. # 02[02:59] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@72.254.63.50) (Client exited)
  332. # 02[02:59] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@72.254.63.25) (Quit: stearns)
  333. # 02[03:00] * Quits: anne (annevk@72.254.83.34) (Client exited)
  334. # 02[03:00] * Quits: smfr (smfr@72.254.59.80) (Quit: smfr)
  335. # 06[03:00] * fantasai thinks an element property is overkill and a document property would do, except we don't have those
  336. # 02[03:00] * Quits: plinss_ (plinss@72.254.86.78) (Quit: plinss_)
  337. # 02[03:00] * Quits: dino (dino@72.254.59.25) (Quit: dino)
  338. # [03:00] <tantek> safe travels everyone
  339. # 06[03:00] * tantek is on a train to Portland.
  340. # 02[03:03] * Quits: cyril (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  341. # 02[03:03] * Quits: florian (florianr@72.254.59.60) (Ping timeout)
  342. # 02[03:03] * Quits: sylvaing (sylvaing@72.254.56.201) (Quit: sylvaing)
  343. # 02[03:03] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.169) (Quit: shepazu)
  344. # 02[03:05] * Quits: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@72.254.58.122) (Ping timeout)
  345. # 02[03:07] * Quits: alexmog (alexmog@72.254.92.49) (Ping timeout)
  346. # 02[03:07] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@72.254.60.133) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  347. # 03[03:15] * Joins: dino (dino@24.22.134.28)
  348. # 02[03:15] * Quits: dino (dino@24.22.134.28) (Client exited)
  349. # 03[05:26] * Joins: arron (Arron@24.17.123.244)
  350. # 03[05:35] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@207.225.246.217)
  351. # 02[06:01] * Quits: tantek (tantek@64.141.94.226) (Ping timeout)
  352. # 02[06:28] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: miketaylr)
  353. # 03[06:55] * Joins: tantek (tantek@76.105.159.199)
  354. # 03[07:15] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35)
  355. # 03[07:18] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@72.254.115.174)
  356. # 03[07:19] * Joins: plinss_ (plinss@72.254.115.185)
  357. # 02[07:33] * Quits: arron (Arron@24.17.123.244) (Quit: arron)
  358. # 03[07:34] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  359. # 03[07:43] * Joins: arron (Arron@24.17.123.244)
  360. # 02[07:43] * Quits: arron (Arron@24.17.123.244) (Quit: arron)
  361. # 02[07:49] * Quits: tantek (tantek@76.105.159.199) (Quit: tantek)
  362. # 02[08:14] * Quits: plinss_ (plinss@72.254.115.185) (Quit: plinss_)
  363. # 03[08:59] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  364. # 03[09:38] * Joins: tantek (tantek@76.105.159.199)
  365. # 02[10:21] * Quits: tantek (tantek@76.105.159.199) (Quit: tantek)
  366. # 02[10:24] * Quits: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@72.254.115.174) (Ping timeout)
  367. # 02[11:26] * Quits: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35) (Ping timeout)
  368. # 06[11:48] * RRSAgent excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  369. # 03[11:48] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  370. # [11:58] <Strengths> Rootable Revenue Service?
  371. # 03[14:52] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
  372. # 02[14:52] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: Linkinus is updating...)
  373. # 03[14:53] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
  374. # 02[15:58] * Quits: heycam|away (cam@203.98.73.35) (Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5)
  375. # 03[16:09] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@72.254.87.254)
  376. # 02[16:58] * Quits: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@72.254.87.254) (Ping timeout)
  377. # 03[17:23] * Joins: tantek (tantek@76.105.159.199)
  378. # 02[17:23] * Quits: tantek (tantek@76.105.159.199) (Quit: tantek)
  379. # 02[17:36] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@207.225.246.217) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  380. # 03[18:02] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@71.39.129.225)
  381. # 03[18:03] * Joins: dino (dino@71.39.129.225)
  382. # 03[18:05] * Joins: stearns (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  383. # 02[18:05] * Quits: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@71.39.129.225) (Ping timeout)
  384. # 02[18:06] * Quits: dino (dino@71.39.129.225) (Ping timeout)
  385. # 03[18:09] * Joins: TabAtkin1_ (tabatkins@71.39.129.225)
  386. # 02[18:10] * Quits: cabanier (cabanier@192.150.22.150) (Quit: cabanier)
  387. # 03[18:10] * Joins: cabanier (cabanier@192.150.22.150)
  388. # 03[18:11] * Joins: birtles (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  389. # 02[18:16] * Quits: stearns (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  390. # 03[18:19] * Joins: tantek (tantek@66.87.7.30)
  391. # 03[18:20] * Joins: dino_ (dino@71.39.129.225)
  392. # 03[18:20] * Joins: tantek_ (tantek@67.23.204.2)
  393. # 02[18:22] * Quits: tantek (tantek@66.87.7.30) (Ping timeout)
  394. # 03[18:22] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  395. # 02[18:26] * Quits: tantek (tantek@67.23.204.2) (Quit: tantek)
  396. # 03[18:36] * Joins: tantek (tantek@66.87.0.228)
  397. # 03[18:42] * TabAtkin1_ is now known as TabAtkins__
  398. # 03[18:42] * dino_ is now known as dino
  399. # 03[18:46] * Joins: tantek_ (tantek@67.23.204.2)
  400. # 02[18:49] * Quits: tantek (tantek@66.87.0.228) (Ping timeout)
  401. # 03[18:49] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  402. # 03[18:57] * Joins: plinss_ (plinss@72.254.60.20)
  403. # 02[19:23] * Quits: dino (dino@71.39.129.225) (Ping timeout)
  404. # 02[19:23] * Quits: plinss_ (plinss@72.254.60.20) (Quit: plinss_)
  405. # 03[19:27] * Joins: dino (dino@71.39.129.225)
  406. # 02[19:27] * Quits: tantek (tantek@67.23.204.2) (Quit: tantek)
  407. # 03[19:47] * Joins: tantek (tantek@67.23.204.2)
  408. # 02[19:54] * Quits: dino (dino@71.39.129.225) (Ping timeout)
  409. # 03[19:58] * Joins: dino (dino@71.39.129.225)
  410. # 03[20:04] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172)
  411. # 02[20:10] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
  412. # 02[21:25] * Quits: tantek (tantek@67.23.204.2) (Quit: tantek)
  413. # 02[21:47] * Quits: birtles (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  414. # 03[22:06] * Joins: plinss_ (plinss@12.1.204.2)
  415. # 02[22:34] * Quits: plinss_ (plinss@12.1.204.2) (Quit: plinss_)
  416. # 02[22:36] * Quits: dholbert (dholbert@76.102.13.41) (Quit: dholbert)
  417. # 02[23:32] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: miketaylr)
  418. # Session Close: Thu Jul 28 00:00:00 2011

The end :)