/irc-logs / w3c / #fx / 2012-02-20 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Mon Feb 20 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #fx
  3. # [03:14] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  4. # [04:01] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  5. # [08:27] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  6. # [20:40] * Joins: Tav (tbah@82.233.243.137)
  7. # [22:04] <ed> hmm... so, holiday today
  8. # [22:06] * Joins: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150)
  9. # [22:08] <ed> if we don't get enough participation within 10 minutes, let's cancel this week's call... didn't know beforehand about the holiday :/
  10. # [22:08] <ed> trackbot, start telcon
  11. # [22:08] * trackbot is preparing a teleconference
  12. # [22:08] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  13. # [22:08] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-irc
  14. # [22:08] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
  15. # [22:08] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  16. # [22:08] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  17. # [22:08] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3983
  18. # [22:08] <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_FXTF()4:00PM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
  19. # [22:08] <trackbot> Meeting: CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference
  20. # [22:08] <trackbot> Date: 20 February 2012
  21. # [22:09] <hober> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  22. # [22:09] <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, hober
  23. # [22:09] <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, cabanier, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
  24. # [22:09] * Joins: krit (Adium@24.6.231.253)
  25. # [22:10] <shepazu> Zakim, code?
  26. # [22:10] <Zakim> the conference code is 3983 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shepazu
  27. # [22:10] * ed wonders why zakim doesn't list the callers automatically
  28. # [22:10] * Quits: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150) (Connection reset by peer)
  29. # [22:10] <krit> zakim, who's here
  30. # [22:10] <Zakim> krit, you need to end that query with '?'
  31. # [22:11] <krit> zakim, who's here
  32. # [22:11] <Zakim> krit, you need to end that query with '?'
  33. # [22:11] <krit> 1:04
  34. # [22:11] <krit> ?
  35. # [22:11] <ed> present+ ed, hober
  36. # [22:11] <krit> zakim, who's here?
  37. # [22:11] <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, krit
  38. # [22:11] * Joins: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150)
  39. # [22:11] <krit> :)
  40. # [22:11] <Zakim> On IRC I see krit, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
  41. # [22:12] * krit Interesting that a bot teaches grammar
  42. # [22:12] * ed :)
  43. # [22:12] <ed> present+ shepazu
  44. # [22:12] <ed> present+ rik
  45. # [22:13] <krit> I fear that my microphone is not working
  46. # [22:13] <krit> I have to rely on IRC
  47. # [22:13] <cabanier> zakim, who is on the phone
  48. # [22:13] <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', cabanier
  49. # [22:13] * Joins: dino (dino@17.202.47.208)
  50. # [22:13] * dino zakim, passcode?
  51. # [22:13] * Zakim the conference code is 3983 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dino
  52. # [22:14] <ed> present+ dirk
  53. # [22:14] <ed> present+ tav
  54. # [22:14] <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0100.html
  55. # [22:15] <cabanier> zakim, who is on the phone?
  56. # [22:15] <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has not yet started, cabanier
  57. # [22:15] <krit> The only open issue on Transforms for SVG is how to animate CSS transform property with SMIL
  58. # [22:15] <Zakim> On IRC I see dino, cabanier, krit, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
  59. # [22:15] <dino> zakim, this is fx
  60. # [22:15] <Zakim> ok, dino; that matches GA_FXTF()4:00PM
  61. # [22:16] <dino> zakim, who is here?
  62. # [22:16] <Zakim> On the phone I see [Apple], [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a], +1.206.734.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, Tav, +1.408.881.aabb
  63. # [22:16] <Zakim> On IRC I see dino, cabanier, krit, Zakim, RRSAgent, Tav, ed, krijnh, stearns, shepazu, heycam|away, vhardy, plinss, trackbot, hober, paul___irish, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai
  64. # [22:16] <hober> Zakim, Apple has me
  65. # [22:16] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  66. # [22:16] <dino> zakim, i am aabb
  67. # [22:16] <Zakim> +dino; got it
  68. # [22:16] <cabanier> zakim , +1.206.734.aaaa is me
  69. # [22:16] * ed did get a reply from Jen (microsoft) about attending the call
  70. # [22:17] <ed> Zakim, pick a victim?
  71. # [22:17] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, ed.
  72. # [22:17] <ed> Zakim, pick a victim
  73. # [22:17] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [pple]
  74. # [22:17] <ed> Zakim, pick a victim
  75. # [22:17] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [IPcaller.a]
  76. # [22:17] <dino> people?
  77. # [22:18] <ed> Zakim, [IPcall is me
  78. # [22:18] <Zakim> sorry, ed, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcall'
  79. # [22:18] <krit> I try to call in from another phone...
  80. # [22:18] <ed> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
  81. # [22:18] <Zakim> +ed; got it
  82. # [22:18] <cabanier> scribenick: cabanier
  83. # [22:18] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
  84. # [22:18] <cabanier> zakim , 1.206.734.aaaa is me
  85. # [22:18] <cabanier> zakim, +1.206.734.aaaa is me
  86. # [22:18] <Zakim> +cabanier; got it
  87. # [22:19] <cabanier> topic: linearRGB vs sRGB for filter effects
  88. # [22:19] <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2012JanMar/0078.html
  89. # [22:19] <cabanier> cabanier: I wanted Chris to be here to have this discussion
  90. # [22:19] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  91. # [22:20] <ed> Zakim, [IPcaller] is dirk
  92. # [22:20] <Zakim> +dirk; got it
  93. # [22:20] <cabanier> cabanier: I understand why it's there, I don't think it's the default
  94. # [22:20] <cabanier> ed: should we postpone?
  95. # [22:20] <cabanier> cabanier: let's postpone
  96. # [22:21] <cabanier> topic: SVG attributes to presentation attributes
  97. # [22:21] <cabanier> krit: did you get my email about how to animate CSS attributes with SMIL
  98. # [22:22] <cabanier> krit: ed, you said you needed feedback from the development team
  99. # [22:22] <krit> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute
  100. # [22:22] <krit> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal
  101. # [22:24] <ed> ed: yes, sent offlist, but basically in agreement with the proposal
  102. # [22:24] <cabanier> krit: SMIL animation would be on top of the current CSS animations
  103. # [22:25] * Joins: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.231)
  104. # [22:25] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aacc
  105. # [22:25] <cabanier> ed: the computed style would reflect animval
  106. # [22:26] <smfr> Zakim, aacc is me
  107. # [22:26] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
  108. # [22:26] <ed> s/ animval/ animval?
  109. # [22:27] <cabanier> ed: what is your recommendation?
  110. # [22:27] <cabanier> krit: 1. override style reflects current animations
  111. # [22:27] <cabanier> krit: 2. Introduce a new style for SVG animations
  112. # [22:28] <cabanier> krit: and the computed style would reflect this new style. could be called SMIL style
  113. # [22:29] <cabanier> cabanier: do you think the model are compatible?
  114. # [22:29] <cabanier> krit: yes, I think so
  115. # [22:30] <cabanier> cabanier: so they run independantly?
  116. # [22:30] <cabanier> krit: yes
  117. # [22:30] <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Current_presentation_attributes_in_the_CSS_cascading
  118. # [22:30] * Quits: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150) (Connection reset by peer)
  119. # [22:31] <ed> ed: so is that image i just linked to correct now?
  120. # [22:31] * Joins: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150)
  121. # [22:33] <cabanier> ed: do we want to wait for corrections to the proposal?
  122. # [22:33] <cabanier> krit: the wiki is up to date
  123. # [22:34] <cabanier> cabanier: do you know what the new style is?
  124. # [22:34] <cabanier> krit: it's an abstract style that is implemented by the browser
  125. # [22:35] <cabanier> ed: animVal becomes a shorthand for getcomputedstyle but with typing. You skip the string serialization
  126. # [22:35] <cabanier> ed: that is fine with me
  127. # [22:36] <cabanier> resolution: issue #4 is accepted from wiki: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/SVG_attribute_to_presentation_attribute#Issue_4:_Which_style_should_be_represented_by_SVG_DOMs_animVal
  128. # [22:38] <ed> to be clear, the solution is to introduce a new style for SVG animations, as described there
  129. # [22:38] <cabanier> ed: are there other transform issues?
  130. # [22:38] <cabanier> krit: we want to move to WD as soon as possible
  131. # [22:38] <cabanier> krit: I believe it will be done this week
  132. # [22:39] <cabanier> smfr: are we going to remove the DOM access methods?
  133. # [22:39] <smfr> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/#dom-interfaces
  134. # [22:39] <cabanier> krit: yes
  135. # [22:39] <cabanier> smfr: CSS matrix, CSS transform value
  136. # [22:40] <cabanier> krit: and we'll have another discussion on FX, or SVG
  137. # [22:40] <cabanier> krit: it doesn't affect CSS any more
  138. # [22:40] <cabanier> ed: how so?
  139. # [22:41] <cabanier> krit: that is because CSS matrix is removed
  140. # [22:41] <cabanier> and we no longer have to describe how SVG and CSS interface
  141. # [22:42] <cabanier> cabanier: and the new keywords are accepted by the CSS people? (such as rotate(alpha, a, b)
  142. # [22:42] <cabanier> krit: yes
  143. # [22:42] <cabanier> krit: the discussion on that has stopped
  144. # [22:42] <cabanier> smfr: and transform-origin is defined for SVG?
  145. # [22:43] <cabanier> krit: yes, for SVG it will be (0, 0)
  146. # [22:43] <cabanier> smfr: the rotate with two parameters gives the author more to think about
  147. # [22:44] <cabanier> smfr: these 2 optional arguments may make it less clear about what is happening
  148. # [22:44] <cabanier> smfr: the rules are already complex
  149. # [22:44] <cabanier> smft: and no browsers currently implement it yet
  150. # [22:45] <cabanier> krit: these are just 2 arguments to align the CSS and SVG models
  151. # [22:45] <cabanier> krit: for current authors, it might be new
  152. # [22:46] <cabanier> krit: but it's needed for backward compatibility with SVG parsing rules?
  153. # [22:46] <cabanier> ed: when is the WD ready?
  154. # [22:46] <cabanier> krit: depends on the CSS WG
  155. # [22:46] <cabanier> ed: yes, I pinged them when they can make their resolution
  156. # [22:47] <cabanier> ed: let's skip the next topics since we need input from Microsoft and they are not here
  157. # [22:48] <cabanier> shepazu: about the transform spec, there were 12 topics called out, are we going to resolve it?
  158. # [22:49] <smfr> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=CSS&component=Transforms&;resolution=---
  159. # [22:49] <cabanier> krit: the WG draft spec doesn't say that all issues have to be resolved
  160. # [22:49] <cabanier> shepazu: yes, but we better get start on this
  161. # [22:50] <cabanier> shepazu: I've been talking to authors and they want different origins with a set of transforms
  162. # [22:50] <cabanier> krit: I don't think we want to support that for CSS3 transforms
  163. # [22:50] * Quits: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150) (Connection reset by peer)
  164. # [22:50] * Joins: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150)
  165. # [22:51] <cabanier> shepazu: that means it won't be there for 2-3 years at least
  166. # [22:51] <cabanier> krit: correct
  167. # [22:51] <cabanier> shepazu: what about tests? Aria has some test I believe
  168. # [22:51] <hober> s/Aria/Aryeh/
  169. # [22:52] <cabanier> krit: Adobe is working on SVG inside of webkit and we're working on some tests
  170. # [22:52] <cabanier> Tav: but you need 2 working implementations for the tests
  171. # [22:52] <cabanier> ed: do you have the test working in a web template or using the CSS WG testing harnass?
  172. # [22:53] <cabanier> krit: no, they are just WebKit test but we can move them to W3C tests
  173. # [22:54] <cabanier> ed: the guidelines say that they don't accept SVG test. You need a HMTL wrapper
  174. # [22:54] <cabanier> ed: the tools don't support straight SVG
  175. # [22:54] <cabanier> krit: inline SVG should be possible
  176. # [22:54] <ed> s/the guidelines/the csswg testsuite guidelines
  177. # [22:54] <cabanier> shepazu: we should have both: inline and straight SVG
  178. # [22:55] <cabanier> shepazu: do we need 2 passing tests for HTML but do we need 2 passing test for SVG as well?
  179. # [22:56] <cabanier> smfr: we talked about different conformance classes in the spec. Not sure what the status is.
  180. # [22:56] <cabanier> shepazu: what is the status of the 2d/3d spec?
  181. # [22:56] <cabanier> smfr: I agree with tantek
  182. # [22:56] <cabanier> smfr: the major interop issues should be resolved
  183. # [22:57] <cabanier> smfr: agree that we should move to last call
  184. # [22:57] <cabanier> shepazu: not sure what LC accomplishes if we still have open issues
  185. # [22:57] <cabanier> smfr: tantek believes that they want to drop prefixes as soon as possible
  186. # [22:58] <cabanier> shepazu: but we don't have conforming implementations right?
  187. # [22:58] <cabanier> shepazu: what does dropping prefixes have to do with LC?
  188. # [22:58] <cabanier> smfr: well, the sooner you do LC the faster you can go the CR
  189. # [22:59] <cabanier> shepazu: isn't it more reasonable to agree on when to drop prefixes than to rush the spec?
  190. # [22:59] <cabanier> ed: I agree
  191. # [23:00] <cabanier> shepazu: if there is a full test suite that tests each feature and everyone passes is, at that point you can drop prefixes
  192. # [23:00] <cabanier> shepazu: his goal is putting the horse behind the cart.
  193. # [23:01] <cabanier> smft: this was discussed at length. It's been covered already
  194. # [23:01] <dino> read the thousands of emails
  195. # [23:02] <cabanier> smfr: I believe tantek's proposal was similar to yours
  196. # [23:02] <cabanier> shepazu: I will read up on the process and take it to the list
  197. # [23:03] <smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Feb/0528.html
  198. # [23:03] <cabanier> shepazu: I want to move this forward faster
  199. # [23:03] <cabanier> shepazu: we've been talking about this at w3c and we want to move forward on this spec asap too
  200. # [23:04] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  201. # [23:04] <cabanier> shepazu: let us know if you need help
  202. # [23:04] <Zakim> -smfr
  203. # [23:04] <Zakim> -ed
  204. # [23:04] <Zakim> -dino
  205. # [23:04] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  206. # [23:04] <Zakim> -Tav
  207. # [23:04] <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
  208. # [23:04] <Zakim> -cabanier
  209. # [23:04] * Quits: krit (Adium@24.6.231.253) (Quit: Leaving.)
  210. # [23:05] <Zakim> -dirk
  211. # [23:05] <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has ended
  212. # [23:05] <Zakim> Attendees were Doug_Schepers, Tav, +1.408.881.aabb, hober, dino, ed, cabanier, dirk, +1.408.636.aacc, smfr
  213. # [23:05] * ed rik, will you send out the minutes?
  214. # [23:05] <cabanier> yes
  215. # [23:05] <ed> Zakim, end telcon
  216. # [23:05] <Zakim> I don't understand 'end telcon', ed
  217. # [23:05] <cabanier> RRSAgent, make minutes
  218. # [23:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/20-fx-minutes.html cabanier
  219. # [23:06] * ed wishes the bots could figure out which commands were to which bot automatically... oh well
  220. # [23:09] * Parts: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.231)
  221. # [23:10] * Quits: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150) (Connection reset by peer)
  222. # [23:13] * Joins: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150)
  223. # [23:13] * Quits: dino (dino@17.202.47.208) (Quit: dino)
  224. # [23:31] * Quits: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150) (Connection reset by peer)
  225. # [23:33] * Joins: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150)
  226. # [23:51] * Quits: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150) (Connection reset by peer)
  227. # [23:52] * Joins: cabanier (IceChat77@192.150.22.150)
  228. # Session Close: Tue Feb 21 00:00:01 2012

The end :)