/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-05-29 / end

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  62. # [12:56] <anne> MikeSmith, there is http://html456.blogspot.com/
  63. # [12:56] * anne moves over to #html-wg as freenode is annoying from here
  64. # [12:57] <anne> MikeSmith, where will you host it?
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  66. # [13:17] <MikeSmith> anne - will host it under http://people.w3.org/mike/planet/ for now
  67. # [13:18] <MikeSmith> but I don't suggest linking to that yet (or planets there) because I'm still need to play around with it a bit more
  68. # [13:19] <MikeSmith> I notice planet/venus doesn't generate atom:subtitle
  69. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> So I need to hack it to add that
  70. # [13:20] <anne> got to go
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  79. # [15:43] <anne> hsivonen, didn't Maciej say that that Unicode was also affected by this Windows-1252 quirk?
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  84. # [16:09] <jmb> which reminds me: given that the meta charset parser in the charset detection algorithm is ASCII-only; surely it should ignore any meta charset claiming the document's in a non-ASCII-compatible encoding (i.e. utf-16/32)?
  85. # [16:10] <anne> what do user agents do?
  86. # [16:10] <anne> #whatwg has a topic appropriate for this: "Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!"
  87. # [16:11] <jmb> ;)
  88. # [16:11] <anne> (no offense, btw :) )
  89. # [16:12] <jmb> none taken ;)
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  106. # [18:12] <zcorpan_> jmb: UAs ignore <meta charset=utf-16> when that is encoded in something us-ascii compatible
  107. # [18:13] <zcorpan_> (or well, they always ignore it)
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  109. # [18:20] <jmb> zcorpan_: that's what my testing shows, yes
  110. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> Question for Dutch speakers: is Eeuwe typically a male or a female name?
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  114. # [18:49] <zcorpan_> MikeSmith: male
  115. # [18:54] <MikeSmith> zcorpan_ - thanks
  116. # [18:54] <zcorpan_> np
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  128. # [20:27] <MikeSmith> FYI, I've set up beginnings of a simple "Planet HTML5" aggregator -
  129. # [20:27] <MikeSmith> http://people.w3.org/mike/planet/html5/
  130. # [20:28] <hasather> MikeSmith: cool
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  132. # [20:28] * tH_ is now known as tH
  133. # [20:30] <MikeSmith> it is currently set up to check each subscribed feed and filter out any entries that aren't tagged html5|HTML5 or entries whose content doesn't contain the string html5|HTML5
  134. # [20:31] * Parts: asbjornu (asbjorn@84.48.116.134)
  135. # [20:32] <MikeSmith> if anybody else on the channel has been blogging about (or planning to blog about) HTML5/WHATWG/HTMLWG and wants me to add your feed to the aggregator, just let me know
  136. # [20:32] <MikeSmith> either just paste in a URL here or /msg me or e-mail me at mike@w3.org
  137. # [20:32] <MikeSmith>
  138. # [20:33] <MikeSmith> part of the intent of setting up the aggregator is for people are not members and/or who may not have time to read and follow public-html discussions
  139. # [20:34] <MikeSmith> so having people write blog entries that summarize current discussions on the list would be a big help
  140. # [20:34] <MikeSmith> Lachy's posting from a few days back is a model example -
  141. # [20:35] <MikeSmith> http://lachy.id.au/log/2007/05/htmlwg
  142. # [20:42] <xover> Ah, so it's a tool for spinning then?
  143. # [20:44] <MikeSmith> xover - don't know what you mean by spinning
  144. # [20:47] <xover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_relations#Spin
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  148. # [21:07] <NiColasS> There will be HTML 5 ?
  149. # [21:08] <NiColasS> Will you create html 5 ?
  150. # [21:10] <NiColasS> because www.w3schools.com says that : W3C will not continue to develop HTML. Future W3C work will be focusing on XHTML.
  151. # [21:10] <NiColasS> Is it right ?
  152. # [21:11] <tH> it /was/ right, it's out of date now
  153. # [21:12] <NiColasS> but if html 5 be created , xhtml2 will not exists
  154. # [21:12] <Philip`> It never was right, since that statement is predicting the future and the future didn't agree :-)
  155. # [21:13] <Philip`> (Not that they could have known any better at the time, so it wasn't their fault)
  156. # [21:13] <NiColasS> so there will be html 5
  157. # [21:13] <NiColasS> what about xhtml ?
  158. # [21:13] <Philip`> XHTML2 development is still continuing, separately from the HTML5 development
  159. # [21:13] <tH> Philip`: when this working group started, it created an alternate timeline ;)
  160. # [21:14] <Philip`> and HTML5 includes XHTML5, which is the same language but written with XML syntax
  161. # [21:15] <Philip`> tH: But w3schools didn't specify any particular timeline, so one has to assume their prediction applied to all possible timelines, so they're still wrong :-)
  162. # [21:15] <tH> haha
  163. # [21:17] <NiColasS> ok thanks a lot
  164. # [21:20] <hsivonen> NiColasS: note that w3schools in general isn't a good source of information
  165. # [21:21] <NiColasS> yeah ? w3schools.com is the place where i have learnt html xhtml and css
  166. # [21:22] <hsivonen> NiColasS: yeah.
  167. # [21:29] <NiColasS> bye
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  171. # [21:38] * DanC_lap waves from SFO
  172. # [21:39] <Dashiva> SFO = the place they keep kids after school in Norway :)
  173. # [21:40] <DanC_lap> I'm 2250 messages behind and climing... it's always a question of whether to try to catch up a little or just jump in.
  174. # [21:41] <Dashiva> I'm thinking Anne's latest message might merit jumping in
  175. # [21:42] <DanC_lap> merit who jumping in? you or me?
  176. # [21:42] <Dashiva> You
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  178. # [21:43] <DanC_lap> kinda frustrating that Anne writes about moving forward, after turning down my requests to manage issues.
  179. # [21:43] <DanC_lap> (or maybe my memory is fuzzy)
  180. # [21:45] <Dashiva> So there's need for issue coordinators?
  181. # [21:45] <DanC_lap> yes, as I said in my last message to the WG: "I'd like a few more volunteers to help with "issue tracking, summarization, and clustering"
  182. # [21:45] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tasks83/ "
  183. # [21:46] * DanC_lap extends the deadline of http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tasks83/
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  186. # [21:48] * DanC_lap thought he contacted Chris Wilson about breadth-first vs depth-first review, but can't find the email; hmm... maybe it was sms...
  187. # [21:53] <DanC_lap> the "Unscoped <style> found outside the <head>" thread looks kinda interesting... I'd sure like somebody to collect a few test cases
  188. # [21:53] <mjs> I don't think test cases are really directly relevant to that discussion, mostly people seem to be misunderstanding what was proposed
  189. # [21:54] <hyatt> there was massive misunderstanding of my post
  190. # [21:54] <DanC_lap> test cases seem quite likely to clarify what's proposed
  191. # [21:54] <hyatt> i should have referenced the draft in my initial post so that people would actually go learn about the new scoped style feature
  192. # [21:55] <hyatt> people also still have no idea what conformance means
  193. # [21:55] <mjs> DanC_lap: the proposal was solely about what would be considered conformant and not about changing behavior, so the only kind of test cases possible would be test cases for a validator
  194. # [21:56] <mjs> (conformant for documents)
  195. # [21:56] <DanC_lap> such test cases seem likely to reduce the odds that people would misread the proposal
  196. # [21:56] <mjs> and perhaps also people didn't realize that scoped style is a new feature in the draft
  197. # [21:56] <DanC_lap> I sure didn't
  198. # [21:58] <DanC_lap> Daniel G. writes "I also perfectly understood Dave's original point." is it clear that he does?
  199. # [21:58] <mjs> I think I will take a shot at explaining it better with English instead of with markup first
  200. # [21:58] <mjs> I'm pretty sure Daniel doesn't understand it, given his objection
  201. # [21:59] <mjs> his objections seemed to be based on assuming behavior of existing content would change, which is not the case
  202. # [21:59] <hsivonen> mjs: I think glazou objected to hyatt's proposal where the scope was for the rest of the doc and didn't end when the parent ended
  203. # [21:59] <hyatt> yeah i rejected that too :)
  204. # [22:00] <DanC_lap> yes, that does seem to what Daniel G (mis)understood
  205. # [22:01] <DanC_lap> which is/are the relevant sections of the spec, hyatt ? (I was thinking of starting review somewhere else, probably, but it's pretty arbitrary...)
  206. # [22:02] <hyatt> for style?
  207. # [22:02] <DanC_lap> yes, especially your proposal re style
  208. # [22:02] * hsivonen is going to start review at encoding sniffing and proceed to tokenization (since those are on my implementation plate)
  209. # [22:03] <DanC_lap> kingryan told me something very similar, hsivonen . But I got pushback from Hixie and mjs on starting that way. hmm.
  210. # [22:04] <hyatt> i linked to it in one my emails
  211. # [22:04] <hyatt> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-style
  212. # [22:04] <hyatt> i basically have two proposals now rather than one
  213. # [22:04] <hyatt> which may be some of the confusion
  214. # [22:04] <hsivonen> DanC_lap: well, the two issues I've raised so far would probably have required more diligent testing on my part before I started raising issues...
  215. # [22:04] <hyatt> (1) was just to make something nonconforming
  216. # [22:04] <hyatt> (2) was to improve the definition of scoped
  217. # [22:05] <DanC_lap> citing the copy of the spec in w3.org would be more convenient for me. maybe it doesn't matter much.
  218. # [22:05] <DanC_lap> do you have write access yet, hyatt ?
  219. # [22:05] <hyatt> i have a cvs account
  220. # [22:05] <DanC_lap> have you committed any changes?
  221. # [22:06] <hyatt> but i have to go figure out how to use it
  222. # [22:06] <hyatt> i've never edited anything in the w3c before
  223. # [22:06] <hyatt> so e.g., i don't really know what to do yet
  224. # [22:06] <hyatt> telnet in, ssh in somewhere, etc.?
  225. # [22:06] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@86.34.246.154) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  226. # [22:06] <DanC_lap> is the source and what the readers read the same document? or is there some build process? I get the impression hixie uses some code from Bert
  227. # [22:07] <hsivonen> hyatt: I bet Hixie has a solution for keeping SVN and CVS in sync
  228. # [22:07] <hyatt> yeah i think there's a build process
  229. # [22:07] <hsivonen> DanC_lap: there's a build process
  230. # [22:07] <hyatt> i may need whatwg access instead or something
  231. # [22:07] <hyatt> i don't know where the original material is
  232. # [22:07] <DanC_lap> I trust you'll figure that out soonish.
  233. # [22:07] * hyatt basically needs to sit down with hixie
  234. # [22:07] <DanC_lap> yeah; please do.
  235. # [22:07] <hyatt> DanC_lap: soonish yes
  236. # [22:07] <hyatt> wwdc is keeping me pretty busy though :(
  237. # [22:07] <Philip`> http://svn.whatwg.org/webapps/ - 'source' is the source, 'index' is the processed one
  238. # [22:07] <hyatt> preparing for it etc.
  239. # [22:07] <Dashiva> There's a source file which is parsed and turned into the full document with references and all
  240. # [22:07] <DanC_lap> understandable.
  241. # [22:07] <DanC_lap> (wwdc)
  242. # [22:10] <hyatt> i have actually been working (with hixie) on a new template/repetition model
  243. # [22:10] <hyatt> something a bit closer to xforms and xul
  244. # [22:11] <mjs> I really want an issue tracker
  245. # [22:12] <mjs> there are a number of things I would file with good write-ups if we had one
  246. # [22:12] * hyatt desperately needs some lunch
  247. # [22:12] * hyatt is now known as hyattFOod
  248. # [22:12] <mjs> even if we did not have an immediate review focus topic
  249. # [22:12] <xover> File `em in the Bugzilla, they can be mined out later if needed.
  250. # [22:14] <xover> DanC_lap: I put yod on the case of finding “tracker”'s source, see if it can be made public, etc.
  251. # [22:14] <mjs> these are mostly things raised by other people in other forums, so I'm not that interested in putting them in another maybe-temporary place
  252. # [22:14] <mjs> if bugzilla is it, then I am happy to use it
  253. # [22:14] <mjs> I actually think bugzilla would be fine and we can tack on mailing list integration later
  254. # [22:15] <mjs> but someone should configure bugzilla to have the right components for the HTML product (and perhaps also milestones, at least "HTML 5" and "post-HTML 5")
  255. # [22:16] <xover> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueTrackerRequirements
  256. # [22:16] <xover> There's a quick setup there for this purpose.
  257. # [22:16] <xover> If it needs changes, it can probably be arranged.
  258. # [22:17] <mjs> xover: ok, added to my task queue for the day to look at that
  259. # [22:17] <xover> Also, feel free to edit that WikiPage; e.g. Anne pointed out that “Web Apps 1.0 Review” is probably the wrong label, etc.
  260. # [22:19] * xover wanders off to bed...
  261. # [22:23] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@74.103.208.221) (Ping timeout)
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  267. # [22:39] * DanC_lap responded to "Anne's latest message". that only took... what... 2 hours?
  268. # [22:39] <DanC_lap> 1 hour.
  269. # [22:40] <DanC_lap> mjs, did you see xover's work on an HTML product in w3c's bugzilla instance? is that likely to satisfy your needs for an issue tracker?
  270. # [22:40] <DanC_lap> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueTrackerRequirements ->
  271. # [22:41] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG
  272. # [22:42] <DanC_lap> ah... "ok, added to my task queue for the day to look at that"
  273. # [22:43] <DanC_lap> xover, did you consider volunteering for the "issue tracking, summarization, and clustering" task? I find it ironic that you didn't volunteer, but you've made more of a tangible contribution than anybody else
  274. # [22:43] <DanC_lap> (in case you're not quite yet asleep ;-)
  275. # [22:50] * Joins: asbjornu (asbjorn@84.48.116.134)
  276. # [22:52] <mjs> DanC_lap: I'll take a look soon, but I need to deal with some other email things first
  277. # [22:53] <mjs> DanC_lap: thanks for following up
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  284. # [23:52] * DanC_lap wanders off to find ground transportation from SFO...
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  289. # Session Close: Wed May 30 00:00:00 2007

The end :)