/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-06-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jun 17 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  38. # [13:23] <anne> I think I've addressed most requests so far: file://localhost/home/annevk/projects/dev.w3.org/html5/html4-differences/Overview.html
  39. # [13:25] <anne> Non localhost version: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/html5/html4-differences/Overview.html
  40. # [13:29] <Philip`> It says "HTML 5" once (and in the references), and "HTML5" everywhere else - should that be made consistent?
  41. # [13:32] <anne> I suppose
  42. # [13:32] <anne> I guess it should be "HTML&nbsp;5" everywhere except when talking about a syntax...
  43. # [13:32] <anne> or maybe just make it HTML5 everywhere
  44. # [13:35] <Philip`> "Documents using this syntax need to be served with the text/html MIME type." - that might sound better as "must be"
  45. # [13:36] <Philip`> (...since "must" doesn't have any special magic in this document, as far as I can tell)
  46. # [13:37] <anne> yeah, no conformance criteria :)
  47. # [13:37] <Philip`> (or maybe it's best to avoid using it anyway, to prevent confusion)
  48. # [13:37] <Philip`> (but then it says "XHTML5 documents must have an XML MIME type")
  49. # [13:38] <anne> I'll use it
  50. # [13:38] <anne> in case people try to extract meaning out of this document...
  51. # [13:38] <anne> which I suspect they will
  52. # [13:41] <Philip`> That "must have an XML MIME type" bit seems to be duplicating the previous paragraph's "need to be served with an XML MIME type"
  53. # [13:41] <anne> yeah, on purpose
  54. # [13:42] <anne> can't say it often enough
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  56. # [13:42] <hasather_> anne: there's a spelling error under 3.3: contraints
  57. # [13:42] <Philip`> Ah, okay
  58. # [13:42] <anne> 3.3 being?
  59. # [13:43] <hasather_> New Attributes
  60. # [13:45] <anne> fixed
  61. # [13:45] <anne> locally
  62. # [13:46] <Philip`> "XML triggers standards mode by design" - not sure what the "by design" is referring to; it's not like XML was specially designed to cause standards mode in browsers
  63. # [13:47] <Philip`> (except to the extent that every standard is designed around the idea that implementations actually follow the standard, even if that eventually doesn't happen in reality)
  64. # [13:47] <anne> "XML is always handled in standards mode"?
  65. # [13:49] <Philip`> Since it can't be said often enough, maybe "documents with an XML MIME type are always handled in standards mode"?
  66. # [13:50] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@74.103.208.221) (Ping timeout)
  67. # [13:50] <anne> :)
  68. # [13:51] <Philip`> It'd be annoying if everyone started writing 'XHTML5' documents without doctypes and then carried on sending them as text/html
  69. # [13:53] <anne> I could include a DOCTYPE in the example, but I'm not sure if that would help much
  70. # [13:53] <Philip`> "The DOCTYPE string is <!DOCTYPE html>" is inconsistent with the example's "<!doctype html>" - but maybe that's useful for demonstrating the case-insensitivity
  71. # [13:54] <Philip`> "The reason it is shorter than previous DOCTYPEs ..." might be clearer if it said why previous DOCTYPEs were trying to do more than simply trigger standards mode
  72. # [13:55] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@74.103.208.221)
  73. # [13:55] <Philip`> (because the difference isn't obvious now)
  74. # [13:56] <Philip`> "several sub sections" - 'subsections' seems to be the usual spelling
  75. # [13:57] <anne> oh, I missed some enhancements jgraham wanted me to make...
  76. # [13:59] <hasather_> it should say "The DOCTYPE declaration ..." instead of "The DOCTYPE string ..."
  77. # [13:59] <Philip`> "datagrid represents an interactive representation of a tree list or tabular data" - represents a representation?
  78. # [14:02] <anne> that's what HTML5 says iirc...
  79. # [14:06] <Philip`> "In addition to the above the input element's type attribute can now have the following new values which enable several new native controls people can use:" - that sentence seems to run on a bit too long without getting very far - maybe it could be like "The input element's type attribute can now have the following new values:" (and the next paragraph already mentions the native UI controls)
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  81. # [14:09] <Philip`> "the user agent can provide the user interface" - maybe it would be helpful to give examples, like "..., such as a calendar date picker or a link to the user's address book, ..." or something
  82. # [14:10] <Philip`> (so that it's clearer what it's talking about in terms of the UA providing UI, and being more powerful than just writing JS code)
  83. # [14:14] <Philip`> "The a and area elements have a new attribute called ping that specifies a space separated list of URIs which have to be pinged when the hyperlink is followed." - I thought part of the justification for 'ping' was that UAs could let privacy-conscious users switch it off (whereas they can't switch off the old redirection-based link tracking), in which case they don't have to be pinged
  84. # [14:15] <Philip`> (HTML5 uses "should" for pinging)
  85. # [14:16] <Philip`> (Oh, and it explicitly says "Based on the user's preferences, UAs may either ignore the ping attribute altogether, or selectively ignore URIs in the list (e.g. ignoring any third-party URIs).")
  86. # [14:18] <Philip`> Maybe the Differences document should say something like "... a space separated list of URIs which are pinged when the hyperlink is followed, unless the user has chosen to disable tracking for those URIs."
  87. # [14:18] <anne> I elaborated a bit more on it than that
  88. # [14:18] <anne> let me know what you think
  89. # [14:19] <Philip`> Aha, it changed
  90. # [14:19] <anne> yeah, like a few seconds ago :)
  91. # [14:20] <Philip`> Sounds fine now
  92. # [14:22] <Philip`> "The script element has a new attributes" - s/s//
  93. # [14:23] <anne> ah, right
  94. # [14:23] <anne> defer was once mentioned there
  95. # [14:23] <anne> but defer is not actually new
  96. # [14:27] <Philip`> "align attribute on caption, iframe, img, input, object, legend, table, hr, div, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, p, col, colgroup, tbody, td, tfoot, th, thead, tr and body." - is there a reason for ordering the element names in that way?
  97. # [14:28] <anne> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/index/attributes.html
  98. # [14:29] <Philip`> meaningfull - s/ll/l/
  99. # [14:29] <Philip`> Ah, okay
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  101. # [14:32] <Philip`> elements's -> element's
  102. # [14:33] <Philip`> "Olivier Gendrin Philip Taylor" -> "Olivier Gendrin, Philip Taylor"
  103. # [14:34] <Philip`> Oh, it finished :-(
  104. # [14:36] <Philip`> Might it be useful to describe some of the higher-level spec differences, like the lack of deprecation (and how it's replaced by explicit author-vs-UA conformance)?
  105. # [14:37] <anne> yeah, maybe
  106. # [14:38] <Philip`> I can't think of anything else, though
  107. # [14:39] <anne> I think that would be good to add and also add something about the implementation process
  108. # [14:39] <anne> explaining the incremental development model
  109. # [14:42] <anne> and more examples and such I suppose
  110. # [14:44] <anne> mentioning the beta conformance checker
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  127. # [19:27] <hsivonen> anne: the conformance is at the moment earlier than beta. I call it a "technology preview".
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The end :)