/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-06-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jun 23 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  14. # [01:37] <Philip`> Hmm, testing pattern rendering is hard, since precisely no browsers even get anywhere slightly near following the spec, so I can't check that my tests are sane :-(
  15. # [01:37] <Hixie> heh
  16. # [01:37] <Hixie> i have some tests
  17. # [01:37] <Hixie> that might help
  18. # [01:37] <Hixie> on hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/something/canvas
  19. # [01:37] <Hixie> something might be "html"
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  21. # [01:39] <Philip`> I can just about get something to work sort of properly in WebKit, but if I try moving the filled rectangle one pixel to the left then the whole image disappears
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  24. # [02:18] <Philip`> Hixie: Yep, that helps - I've now got a script that replaces the browser's functions with ones that actually work (just by doing lots of drawImage), and it passes your tests, so I can use that to make sure I'm not writing anything stupid :-)
  25. # [02:28] <Hixie> :-)
  26. # [02:28] <Hixie> let's just hope my tests are valid!
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  79. # [15:36] <anne> Philip`, area@target?
  80. # [15:37] <anne> I'm a bit confused by some of the entries in "@style @accesskey area@target area@rel area@media @hreflang caption@char caption@charoff colgroup@span img@name object@codebase object@name td@scope"
  81. # [15:38] <anne> char and charoff are mentioned
  82. # [15:39] <anne> added codebase, style and accesskey so far
  83. # [15:40] <Philip`> Oops, I was going to do stuff about this yesterday but I forgot :-(
  84. # [15:41] <anne> also added a bunch of elements for the name attribute
  85. # [15:41] <anne> np
  86. # [15:41] <anne> I believe span is not dropped
  87. # [15:41] <anne> on colgroup
  88. # [15:42] <Philip`> html4-differences talks about base@target and a@target, both of which were in HTML4 Transitional but not in Strict
  89. # [15:42] <Philip`> and area@target is in the same category, but isn't mentioned
  90. # [15:42] <Philip`> "char and charoff attributes on col, colgroup, tbody, td, tfoot, th, thead and tr." - doesn't mention caption
  91. # [15:44] <Philip`> ...but I don't see where I saw caption@char(off)
  92. # [15:44] <Philip`> Hmm, that was probably a bug in my old DTD parser
  93. # [15:44] <Philip`> so ignore that one :-)
  94. # [15:45] <anne> added area@target
  95. # [15:45] <Philip`> Argh, and colgroup@span was probably a bug in my old HTML5 spec parser
  96. # [15:45] <Philip`> (It didn't like attribute definitions with comments after them)
  97. # [15:46] <Philip`> (Those bugs should be fixed in the http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/htmldiffs.txt version)
  98. # [15:48] <anne> area@rel is new?
  99. # [15:48] <anne> hmm
  100. # [15:49] <anne> and media and hreflang are too?
  101. # [15:49] <anne> interesting
  102. # [15:49] <anne> td@scope was allowed?
  103. # [15:49] <anne> interesting
  104. # [15:51] <zcorpan> anne: yeah, it made the cell be both data cell and header cell
  105. # [15:53] <anne> so yeah, they are now for area
  106. # [15:54] <anne> HTML4 had so many bugs
  107. # [15:55] <zcorpan> indeed
  108. # [16:00] <anne> I think I fixed stuff
  109. # [16:05] <Philip`> Why "The base element can now have a target attribute as well mainly for consistency with the a element and because it was already widely supported.", when base@target was already in non-Strict HTML4 so it's not any more of a new feature than a@target?
  110. # [16:08] <Philip`> Also, "the target attribute for the a and area elements is no longer deprecated" - nothing in HTML4 says it was deprecated
  111. # [16:10] <Philip`> Looks like target and the iframe-specific attributes were non-deprecated but Transitional-only, since iframe itself was non-deprecated but Transitional-only
  112. # [16:11] <anne> transitional == deprecated iirc
  113. # [16:11] <Philip`> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/index/attributes.html - it has no D in the Depr. column
  114. # [16:11] <Philip`> (All the other non-iframe-related Transitional-only attributes do, though)
  115. # [16:12] <anne> hmm
  116. # [16:12] <anne> I wonder if I should care to fix it
  117. # [16:12] <Philip`> I guess that's because iframe/frame things are still legitimate in Frameset documents
  118. # [16:12] <anne> I suppose I need to explain that we no longer have Transitional, Strict, profiles, subsets, modules
  119. # [16:13] <anne> and why we are all going to like it that way
  120. # [16:13] <anne> :)
  121. # [16:13] <Philip`> It'll make the HTML6 differences document easier to write :-)
  122. # [16:20] <Philip`> Looks like body@alink is missed
  123. # [16:23] <Philip`> Also missing that font attributes are removed (color, face, size)
  124. # [16:28] <anne> I think we should keep <font> low-profile
  125. # [16:28] <anne> also, it's a dropped element
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  127. # [16:28] <Philip`> Oops, my HTML5 parser doesn't like the definition of li@value
  128. # [16:29] <Philip`> iframe@longdesc
  129. # [16:29] <Philip`> iframe@width
  130. # [16:31] <Philip`> menu@{type,label,autosubmit}
  131. # [16:31] <Philip`> script@{event,for}
  132. # [16:32] <Philip`> table@datapagesize
  133. # [16:32] <Philip`> Those are the only differences I can see which aren't listed
  134. # [16:32] <Philip`> (ignoring all the WF2 stuff)
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  136. # [16:34] <Philip`> Uh, maybe event/for/datapagesize should be ignored since they're in the DTD but "reserved for possible future use"
  137. # [16:34] <Philip`> (along with datasrc/datafld/dataformatas)
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  139. # [16:37] <anne> <menu> changes, right
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  141. # [16:42] <DanC> hmm... in http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/html5/html4-differences/Overview.html , "HTML5 is implementation driven"; I wonder if now is the time to push that statement.
  142. # [16:43] <DanC> I have been thinking about adding status info to this html4-differences document, but now I'm inclined to stick to more factual matters.
  143. # [16:43] <anne> isn't that a fact?
  144. # [16:43] <anne> <canvas>, <video>, parsing
  145. # [16:43] <anne> all very much implementation driven and vice versa
  146. # [16:44] <anne> I think it's a difference from HTML4 worth mentioning
  147. # [16:44] <Philip`> Judging by the datasrc/datafld stuff, HTML4 was driven to some extent by implementations too, so maybe there's not that much difference :-)
  148. # [16:45] <DanC> <video> was implemented before it was specified?
  149. # [16:45] <anne> in Opera it was
  150. # [16:45] <anne> just experimental so far though
  151. # [16:46] <anne> but that's with most new stuff
  152. # [16:46] <DanC> I'd be happy to push for a constraint that new features should have code and a handful of tests before it goes in the spec.
  153. # [16:47] <DanC> anne, are you sure "HTML5 is implementation driven" adds much over "The HTML5 draft reflects an effort, started in 2004, to study contemporary HTML implementations and deployed content." ?
  154. # [16:47] <anne> it's more that if features don't get implemented before the spec becomes rec they will be dropped
  155. # [16:48] <DanC> that you have already said.
  156. # [16:48] <DanC> but "HTML5 is implementation driven" suggests that, for example, user requirements don't count.
  157. # [16:48] <anne> that's not really how it's intended...
  158. # [16:49] <DanC> then don't say it like that.
  159. #
  160. # Session Start: Sat Jun 23 16:50:09 2007
  161. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  162. # [16:50] * Now talking in #html-wg
  163. # [16:50] * Topic is 'HTML WG http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
  164. # [16:50] * Set by Zeros on Mon Apr 30 23:38:28
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  166. # [17:00] <anne> ok, commented out for now
  167. # [17:01] <anne> didn't mention transitional stuff either as that's already covered implicitly
  168. # [17:06] <anne> Philip`, I made the <menu> changes and the others too
  169. # [17:06] <anne> I hope, anyway :)
  170. # [17:13] <DanC> anne, I like to have the $Revision$ and $Date$ of editors drafts visible. pls add them? (and/or $Id$)
  171. # [17:13] <DanC> you can change "Editor's draft 23 June 2007" to "Editor's draft $Date$"
  172. # [17:14] <DanC> or add "This version: $Revision$ of $Date$"
  173. # [17:14] <DanC> you might consider putting $Log$ at the bottom too
  174. # [17:14] <DanC> see http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec for example
  175. # [17:15] <anne> $Revision$ is a macro?
  176. # [17:18] <DanC> yes
  177. # [17:18] <DanC> it's a CVS keyword
  178. # [17:18] <anne> the "23 June 2007" bit is also done by some script btw
  179. # [17:19] <DanC> oh? is the script checked in? I prefer to have all the sources that the editor works with checked in
  180. # [17:20] <anne> the script is from the CSSWG
  181. # [17:20] <anne> I'm just curling it
  182. # [17:20] <DanC> by the way... "This document may not provide accurate information ..." belongs better under "Status" than "Abstract"
  183. # [17:20] <anne> I suppose I could check in my source file
  184. # [17:20] <DanC> ok, so it's checked in somewhere.
  185. # [17:20] <DanC> I'd appreciate it if you'd check in your source file.
  186. # [17:22] <anne> done both
  187. # [17:26] <anne> I didn't use $Log$ btw as the already available log tool is more usable
  188. # [17:26] <anne> (did add a pointer to that log tool)
  189. # [17:28] <DanC> ok, I just sent a "ready to publish?" msg re 1.22
  190. # [17:28] * DanC heads out...
  191. # [17:28] * anne too
  192. # [17:52] <Philip`> toDataURL is an excellent way to crash browsers
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  204. # [20:02] <Philip`> anne: "alink, link, text and vlink attributes on body." is no longer in alphabetical order in that list
  205. # [20:21] <zcorpan> anne: "following the rules set forth by the XML specification. [XML]" -- s/specification. [XML]/specifications. [XML] [XMLNS]/
  206. # [20:31] <zcorpan> anne: i mean s/specification/specifications/
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  208. # [20:35] <Philip`> s/The above also means that there is no longer need marking things "deprecated"./The above also means that there is no longer a need for marking things "deprecated"./
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  211. # [21:18] <NickName> Do you know if I can make my pc a web server ?
  212. # [21:20] <NickName> ?
  213. # [21:22] <NickName> Do you know ?
  214. # [21:24] <Dashiva> Yes, but that's not exactly a question for this channel
  215. # [21:25] <NickName> Yeah , sorry! I couldn't find the appropriate channel
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  219. # [23:12] <Dashiva> "An HTML editor which is widely used at Stanford prompts users to enter alt and longdesc when inserting images etc."
  220. # [23:12] <Dashiva> longdesc is supposed to be an URL, right? What do you do when even the people trying to be accessible do it wrong?
  221. # [23:13] <Philip`> Maybe it magically creates a new page with the longdesc in it?
  222. # [23:14] <Dashiva> Sounds like a job for RDF
  223. # [23:15] <Philip`> Or maybe it does <img longdesc="data:text/plain,This is a pointlessly complex way of adding a description">
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  228. # Session Close: Sun Jun 24 00:00:00 2007

The end :)