/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-07-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jul 03 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:01] <MikeSmith> myakura - if you don't already have lunch plans, we should meet for lunch. たけだ place across from the Square Tower has una-don for 900 yen...
  4. # [00:02] <myakura> MikeSmith: cool :) should i tell kidachi-san about this?
  5. # [00:03] <DanC> mjs and everybody, pls take a look at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/dprv/ , draft in progress
  6. # [00:03] <mjs> can't see it
  7. # [00:04] <DanC> what happens when you try?
  8. # [00:04] <myakura> says "This questionnaire is not yet open."
  9. # [00:04] <DanC> I know it's not yet open. but can't you see the text?
  10. # [00:05] <mjs> that's all it shows
  11. # [00:05] <myakura> i only see a paragraph saying "This questionnaire~."
  12. # [00:06] <DanC> ok, I changed the starting date to today, running the risk that people will answer it before I really want them to. take a look now?
  13. # [00:06] <MikeSmith> myakura - yeah, ping kidachi-san. If you guys are busy today, some other day this week is fine, except for Thursday.
  14. # [00:07] <mjs> DanC: my opinion is that it's premature to vote on those principles
  15. # [00:07] <mjs> DanC: I'd like the people with objections to articulate them, and then we can make summary pages of arguments pro/con
  16. # [00:07] <DanC> darn; wrong impression already. "this survey is a non-binding, informational-gathering excercise, not a formal proposal to publish the document."
  17. # [00:08] <DanC> would <blink> help? ;-)
  18. # [00:08] <mjs> DanC: those are also some of the design principles that would be considered least negotiable by browser vendors
  19. # [00:09] * Parts: hasather (hasather@80.203.71.22)
  20. # [00:10] <mjs> so I'd rather take a shot at adjusting them to remove objections (if any) than to reconsider their inclusion
  21. # [00:10] <mjs> also I think some others have seen some degree of objection, though possibly based on misunderstanding
  22. # [00:11] <mjs> (like "Pave the Cowpaths" - it's not intended to ever be a justification for dropping any language features)
  23. # [00:12] <DanC> I'd like to think this survey could run in parallel. I moved "This survey is a non-binding, informational-gathering excercise." to the top and put it in bold
  24. # [00:13] <DanC> hmm... updating the "30 April draft" during the poll would lead to dirty data.
  25. # [00:13] <DanC> some have claimed that we'd get more consensus around publishing the principles than the differences document. I'm willing to test that hypothesis.
  26. # [00:14] <myakura> MikeSmith: alright, i'll ping you back then :)
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  29. # [00:16] * hsivonen notes a Freudian slip "sue case" in www-archive when discussion is about use cases and accessibility
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  36. # [00:35] <DanC> mjs, take one more look at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/dprv/ ? I'd like to issue that as a way of saying "yes, we're working on the design principles too"
  37. # [00:35] <DanC> but I'm on the fence
  38. # [00:35] <DanC> I can see reasons to not start it yet
  39. # [00:36] <DanC> "I imagine there's already a a Wiki page on this, but I thought I'd post this here first." <- what a way to start a message. I'm not going to read past there.
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  42. # [00:48] <Philip`> Hmm, I was getting all optimistic and thinking that there was interoperability with the canvas lineTo function - but, alas, Firefox let me down
  43. # [00:48] * Philip` continues his quest for a single correctly-implemented feature
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  46. # [00:57] <Dashiva> Philip`: Could you mention some of the bugs in save/lose?
  47. # [00:57] <Dashiva> *load
  48. # [00:58] <Philip`> Do you mean save/restore?
  49. # [00:59] <Dashiva> Yeah
  50. # [01:00] <Philip`> The ones I've seen are that Safari appears to save/restore the path, and Firefox throws an exception when you underflow the state stack
  51. # [01:02] <Philip`> (Also, excanvas doesn't save globalAlpha/globalCompositeOperation)
  52. # [01:03] <Philip`> (though I don't think excanvas is interesting in terms of hoping for interoperable implementations)
  53. # [01:08] <mjs> DanC: can you give me a shot at organizing some review on the mailing list before posting a survey?
  54. # [01:08] <mjs> DanC: I'll send an email by this evening
  55. # [01:08] <Philip`> I suppose moveTo works alright if you count Opera 9.5 instead of 9.2
  56. # [01:09] <DanC> shot... ok, will do
  57. # [01:09] * DanC set the start date to after the end date, for now
  58. # [01:09] * DanC is done for the day...
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  67. # [02:19] <karl> http://www.w3.org/2007/03/XHTML2-WG-charter
  68. # [02:19] <karl> Initial Chairs Roland Merrick, IBM; Steven Pemberton, W3C/CWI
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  98. # [07:22] <Hixie> good lord, what are all these empty pages on the wiki
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  117. # [10:55] <anne> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/html5/html4-differences/Overview.html
  118. # [10:55] <anne> can people quickly scan it please?
  119. # [10:55] <mjs> hey anne
  120. # [10:55] <anne> morning mjs
  121. # [11:01] <hsivonen> wow. Robert Burns suggests that people outside the WG go read WHATWG stuff instead of the WG publishing WDs
  122. # [11:01] <anne> yeah, just replied
  123. # [11:06] <hsivonen> anne: you left "To keep the authoring language relatively simple for authors several elements and attributes have been *removed*" in.
  124. # [11:07] <anne> ah
  125. # [11:07] <anne> ok, i'm done with rb i think
  126. # [11:07] * anne will just ignore his flames without arguments
  127. # [11:07] <mjs> hsivonen: it's pretty clear that the whatwg page wasn't enough to inform the HTML WG itself about the differences
  128. # [11:08] <mjs> let alone the outside
  129. # [11:08] <hsivonen> mjs: yeah.
  130. # [11:09] <hsivonen> anne: "Using a special Unicode Byte Order Mark (BOM)" I'd drop "special"
  131. # [11:09] <anne> hsivonen, hmm, actually, shouldn't that just stay in?
  132. # [11:09] <anne> the "removed" bit
  133. # [11:09] <anne> or should i make it "not included"
  134. # [11:10] <anne> made it that
  135. # [11:10] <hsivonen> anne: "not included" sounds better
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  139. # [11:46] <anne> hmm, a guy from webrepair.org proposes a versioning mechanism in comment syntax
  140. # [11:46] <anne> that's not nice
  141. # [11:48] <krijnh> <!-- HTML 5.01--
  142. # [11:48] <krijnh> Would that be HTML 4.01 ? :)
  143. # [11:48] <anne> <!--[lt crazy]> false <]-->
  144. # [11:48] <krijnh> 400 unread messages :(
  145. # [11:49] <anne> I'm also not sure why I would use that horrible construct over <img alt src=foo>
  146. # [11:55] <mjs> conditional comments!
  147. # [11:55] * mjs stabs himself in the eye
  148. # [11:56] <krijnh> Another person who can test AT seriously!
  149. # [11:56] <mjs> it was only a flesh wound
  150. # [11:57] <krijnh> Ah
  151. # [11:57] <anne> hehe
  152. # [11:58] <krijnh> http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2007/07/gilde_van_front.html - yay
  153. # [11:58] <anne> What's the average velocity of a male swallow?
  154. # [11:59] <anne> s/average/average air speed/
  155. # [11:59] <krijnh> 24 miles per hour
  156. # [11:59] <anne> the correct answer is: "An African or European swallow?"
  157. # [11:59] <anne> iirc
  158. # [11:59] * anne loves that movie
  159. # [12:00] <krijnh> I was talking about an unladen swallow ;)
  160. # [12:00] <krijnh> Whatever that is
  161. # [12:00] <anne> one that doesn't carry a coconut together with another swallow?
  162. # [12:00] <krijnh> Ah, makes sense
  163. # [12:06] <hsivonen> anne: what's the swallow in this case? XHTML? and the correct question being 5 or 2?
  164. # [12:07] <anne> hehe
  165. # [12:07] <anne> go see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail
  166. # [12:08] <hsivonen> anne: I know where the question is from. I meant what's the relevance to the HTML WG.
  167. # [12:09] <hsivonen> I was unable to read PPK's Dutch
  168. # [12:09] <anne> oh, I was just continuing what mjs started
  169. # [12:09] <hsivonen> oh. flesh wound
  170. # [12:10] * hsivonen is slow
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  172. # [12:13] <krijnh> Doh
  173. # [12:13] * krijnh even slower
  174. # [12:14] <anne> lol
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  178. # [12:55] <anne> DanC, btw, after Thursday I won't be able to make any changes to the document until July 21
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  191. # [16:12] <hsivonen> jgraham++
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  195. # [16:53] <anne> it bothers me that people just say: "Why not introduce this?"
  196. # [16:54] <anne> without clearly thinking it through (besides the fact that the particular example already works without the additional functionality)
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  202. # [17:50] * tH wonders if the DL discussion will improve if there's a wiki page for it
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  228. # [23:25] <MikeSmith> myakura - you're up early
  229. # [23:26] <myakura> :)
  230. # [23:26] <myakura> sleepy though :(
  231. # [23:28] <MikeSmith> you see the thread about accesskey on public-html?
  232. # [23:29] <MikeSmith> same thing we were talking about at lunch yesterday
  233. # [23:30] * myakura is checking
  234. # [23:41] <myakura> interesting. i should check them later again so that i can read them carefully with my finally-woke-up brain (yawns)
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  237. # Session Close: Wed Jul 04 00:00:00 2007

The end :)