/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-07-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 12 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  8. # [00:42] <Philip`> http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/parser/tokeniser_js.html - the amazingly useful Live Token Stream Viewer
  9. # [00:43] <Philip`> Now almost correct, except it doesn't even attempt to handle entities
  10. # [00:44] <Philip`> (Also it ignores duplicate attributes and it doesn't emit parse errors for non-permitted slashes or for attributes in end tags, and it doesn't do any input stream processing stuff, but otherwise it should be bug-free)
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  17. # [01:21] <jgraham> Philip`: I just realised I do have changes in my local tree that break the tokenizer tests. I accidentally checked in the changed test_tokenizer.py this morning.
  18. # [01:27] <jgraham> Philip`: All being well, it should be fixed now
  19. # [01:28] <heycam> is it necessary to send regrets for the telcon? or is it immaterial since hundreds of people aren't going to send regrets anyway...
  20. # [01:31] * jgraham will try to observe on IRC but won't be able to dial in, sadly
  21. # [01:36] <MikeSmith> heycam - no need to send regrets
  22. # [01:46] <heycam> 3am on a friday morning is just too inconvenient to make it :)
  23. # [01:48] <Philip`> Oh, entity tokenisation is almost easy in JS, at least when you completely don't care about efficiency and use a 2KB regular expression
  24. # [01:51] <Philip`> http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/parser/tokeniser_js.html - now with entities
  25. # [01:51] <Philip`> (almost totally untested)
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  29. # [02:19] <Philip`> JS tokeniser now can run tests - it passes 157, fails 51
  30. # [02:20] <Philip`> The lack of UTF-32 in JS is a bit annoying, since it would mean I'd have to do some work if I was going to bother making the tests pass
  31. # [02:33] <Philip`> Now it passes 202 and fails 6, and those 6 are just annoying Unicode issues
  32. # [02:38] <Philip`> Oops, only 2 are annoying
  33. # [02:38] <Philip`> and 3 are fixed
  34. # [02:39] * Philip` thinks that's probably good enough for now
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  70. # [08:03] <hsivonen> wow, <h a='&noti'> is hard
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  73. # [08:23] <karl> http://boagworld.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2400
  74. # [08:26] <hsivonen> karl: how could the evidence part be communicated better?
  75. # [08:27] <hsivonen> (clearly, it hasn't been communicated clearly enough)
  76. # [08:27] <karl> I intend to write a blog post. I think there is a problem of perception from some people added with a problem of tone on the list from the most vocal group.
  77. # [08:27] <karl> challenging :)
  78. # [08:28] <karl> hsivonen: I have to reply to your email
  79. # [08:28] <karl> but I'm preparing slides for a conference on sunday in Tokyo. Days of Web standards
  80. # [08:29] <karl> http://www.w3.org/News/2007#item149 - http://days2007.cssnite.jp/
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  82. # [08:33] <hsivonen> Philip`: fix for <h a='&noti'> checked in
  83. # [08:37] <hsivonen> hmm. what the commenter on the above forum sees as evidence supporting profile='' is exactly what Hixie sees as evidence that profile='' has failed
  84. # [08:37] <hsivonen> the commenter goes "See WordPress uses it" and Hixie goes "See, it is almost always used incorrectly, like WP."
  85. # [08:41] <mjs_> analysis of existing web content is primarily applicable to studies of existing language features
  86. # [08:41] * mjs_ is now known as mjs
  87. # [08:42] <mjs> so it's not exactly right to say "For something to become part of the HTML WG's recommendation it has to be in use."
  88. # [08:42] <mjs> on the other hand, there is a presumption that features from existing specs that are almost never used or almost always used wrong are probably flawed
  89. # [08:43] <hsivonen> mjs: analysis of existing content also shows demand for certain use cases that could be addessed by the core spec instead of scripts and plugins
  90. # [08:43] <mjs> sure
  91. # [08:43] <mjs> it's a different kind of evidence
  92. # [08:44] <mjs> obviously we do have things in the spec that aren't in use
  93. # [08:44] <mjs> personally I don't see what profile gets you that you couldn't put in a <meta> or <link> tag, for something like GRDDL
  94. # [08:45] <mjs> and for microformats profile is clearly unhelpful and indeed useless
  95. # [08:45] <hsivonen> mjs: if GRDDL does foo, anything that's not foo is an inconvenience to the GRDDL users
  96. # [08:45] <hsivonen> anything that's not foo but replaces foo that is
  97. # [08:45] <mjs> there are so few GRDDL users that inconveniencing them is irrelevant
  98. # [08:46] <hsivonen> mjs: the interesting part is that the GRDDL reason to have profile is to deal with microformats but we've seen that otherwise profile is unhelpful and useless for microformats
  99. # [08:47] <mjs> what exactly does wordpress do with the profile attribute anyway?
  100. # [08:47] <mjs> I couldn't find it on the few wordpress blogs I looked at
  101. # [08:47] <hsivonen> to me this suggests that if GRDDL wants to be successfull at working with microformats *on the Web scale*, GRDDL should figure out how to do it without profile
  102. # [08:48] <hsivonen> mjs: profile="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11" as seen on blog.whatwg.org
  103. # [08:49] <hsivonen> mjs: so basically, whenever a WP blog uses a non XFN microformat, the theory says that the other formats don't mean anything
  104. # [08:50] <hsivonen> mjs: so it would be useless to let the profile value constrain what microformats you look for
  105. # [08:51] <mjs> GRDDL requires the document to have more markup in the document than just the profile attribute, right?
  106. # [08:52] <hsivonen> I don't know what exactly GRDDL requires
  107. # [08:52] <mjs> it has to be, first of all, the GRDDL profile, not the relevant microformat profile(s)
  108. # [08:52] <hsivonen> whoa. that would be *so* not Web scale
  109. # [08:52] <mjs> and then a <link rel="transformation" ...> to the GRDDL xsl stylesheet
  110. # [08:52] <mjs> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#grddl-xhtml
  111. # [08:52] <mjs> if I'm reading this right
  112. # [08:53] <hsivonen> so the publisher has to participate in a GRDDL-specific way instead of merely using a microformat
  113. # [08:54] <mjs> the profile attribute says that rel="transformation" should be interpreted as a GRDDL transformation
  114. # [08:54] <mjs> it doesn't say anything about what microformats you use and afaict GRDDL doesn't care about that
  115. # [08:54] <mjs> but I could be misunderstanding this
  116. # [08:56] <mjs> although one of them links to GRDDL transforms for FOAF, CC and Geo, without profile markup for any of those
  117. # [08:56] <hsivonen> I quick glance over the GRDDL spec suggests to me that we should just add transformation to the list of known rel values
  118. # [08:56] <mjs> so yeah, the idea of GRDDL is that your document's data can only be extracted by GRDDL-aware processors if you have marked it up in several GRDDL-specific ways, the most relevant ones not being the profile attribute
  119. # [08:58] <hsivonen> I wonder if there's a quotable about XSLT similar to the jwz regexp quotable...
  120. # [08:59] <mjs> XSLT requires use of XPath as well, so you have at least three problems
  121. # [09:00] <hsivonen> :-)
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  123. # [09:24] <hsivonen> jgraham: in the html5lib test cases there's an error message "mismatched body element end tag (premature end of file?)" if html5lib itself emits this, it could be rephased to something that better reflects the situation. e.g. "The body element closed but there were unclosed elements. (premature end of file?)"
  124. # [09:31] <hsivonen> jgraham: in the document fragment test cases, the harness would be greatly simplified if the fragment came before #data
  125. # [09:31] <hsivonen> jgraham: will your harness break, if I reorder the test case chunks?
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  127. # [09:32] <hsivonen> jgraham: in general, I'm of the opinion, that the test format should be as simple to process as possible at the expense of format flexibility
  128. # [09:38] <hsivonen> jgraham: since I'm writing Java, any buffering if the test stream chunks is a PITA so, I have an UntilHashInputStream that reads directly from the aggregate test stream. hence, I need to know the fragment context before I consume the fragment data
  129. # [09:39] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - jwz regexp quotable?
  130. # [09:40] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: "Some people, when confronted with a problem, think ``I know, I'll use regular expressions.'' Now they have two problems."
  131. # [09:40] <MikeSmith> heh
  132. # [09:40] <MikeSmith> who's jwz?
  133. # [09:41] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: XEmacs hacker, early Netscape employee
  134. # [09:41] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: http://www.jwz.org/
  135. # [09:43] <hsivonen> s/buffering if/buffering of/
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  138. # [09:51] <hsivonen> Hmm. if Dmitry's new email address is any indication, he is now doing CSS 4, too
  139. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> we can perhaps hope for IPV7
  140. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> think I'll suggest it to him
  141. # [09:54] <MikeSmith> or IPVn+1 of whatever the hell the current not-deployed version of IP protocol is
  142. # [09:55] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: is IPv6 really deployed in mobile networks in Japan and Korea?
  143. # [09:56] <hsivonen> (over here, I get told that IPv6 is already big in Japan)
  144. # [09:57] <jgraham> hsivonen: The error message in the test case and the error message html5lib emits are not necessarily the same
  145. # [09:58] <hsivonen> jgraham: ok
  146. # [10:00] <jgraham> hsivonen: We currently have an assumption that testcases start with the string #data so moving #document-fragment to the start will cause problems
  147. # [10:00] <hsivonen> jgraham: :-(
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  149. # [10:02] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - I'm told there are some practical reasons why there's more of need for IPV6 in Japan and rest of Asia then elsewhere
  150. # [10:03] <MikeSmith> olivier mentioned something about IBM having more IPV4 addresses than all of Japan
  151. # [10:03] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: yeah, and Helsinki University of Technology has more than Saudi Arabia
  152. # [10:03] <MikeSmith> heh
  153. # [10:04] <mjs> IBM has a /8 , does Japan really have less than that?
  154. # [10:04] <MikeSmith> mjs - dunno, actually
  155. # [10:04] <mjs> HP has two /8s
  156. # [10:05] <mjs> I would guess at some point IANA may take away address space for individual organizations who have more addresses allocated than they could ever need
  157. # [10:05] <MikeSmith> anyway, the mobile operators here are deploying support for IPV6, I believe ... but I don't know if that's because they really need -- if there is a real business need for it now -- or if it's because of other pressure
  158. # [10:05] <MikeSmith> the Japanese Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications (Soumushou) heavily promotes IPV6 and has been putting a lot of money behind it, as has NTT ... and personal influence of Jun Murai (who still teaches here are Keio Univ. where I work) is a big factor in it getting extra attention here in Japan
  159. # [10:05] <MikeSmith> I think
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  161. # [10:29] <hsivonen> hmm. I have lots of bugs relating to implicit head and body
  162. # [10:29] <hsivonen> or lots of test failures perhaps caused by one or two bugs
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  164. # [10:36] <hsivonen> hohum. they are spec bugs
  165. # [10:37] <jgraham> hsivonen: Where?
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  167. # [10:38] <hsivonen> jgraham: EOF in main phase
  168. # [10:38] <hsivonen> jgraham: the spec says: "This fails because it doesn't imply HEAD and BODY tags. We should probably expand out the insertion modes and merge them with phases and then put the three things here into each insertion mode instead of trying to factor them out so carefully."
  169. # [10:39] <hsivonen> jgraham: the html5lib tests expect this spec bug to be fixed
  170. # [10:39] <jgraham> Ah, OK. I remember Anne made html5lib do the right thing here
  171. # [10:40] <jgraham> where "right thing" is defined to mean "what the spec will presumably eventually say"
  172. # [10:40] <jgraham> I suggest you copy us :)
  173. # [10:40] <hsivonen> yeah
  174. # [10:44] <hsivonen> jgraham: you guys have some serious tail recursion going on there
  175. # [10:45] * hsivonen doesn't know if tail recursion is Pythonic
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  178. # [10:55] <jgraham> hsivonen: I'm pretty sure it's not
  179. # [10:55] <jgraham> We should probably change it to iteration
  180. # [10:59] <jgraham> Though it's not a big perf issue compared to the slow-as-molasses inputstream/tokenizer
  181. # [10:59] * jgraham has to run now
  182. # [11:10] <hsivonen> jgraham: I think html5lib guess about EOF in InFramesetPhase has a bug (or then I just don't know the codebase well enough)
  183. # [11:12] <hsivonen> jgraham: specifically, I think it should do parse error plus switch to after frameset
  184. # [11:19] <Hixie> the live tokenstream thingy doesn't work in safari
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  203. # [13:47] <Philip`> Hixie: Fixed the tokeniser in Safari now
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  239. # [18:48] <DanC> Zakim, this will be html
  240. # [18:48] <Zakim> ok, DanC; I see HTML_WG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
  241. # [18:49] <DanC> agenda + Convene HTML WG meeting of 2007-07-12T17:00:00Z
  242. # [18:49] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  243. # [18:49] <DanC> agenda + Detailed Spec Reviews, progress update
  244. # [18:49] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
  245. # [18:49] <DanC> agenda + Test suite organization
  246. # [18:49] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
  247. # [18:49] <DanC> agenda + Email traffic shaping
  248. # [18:49] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
  249. # [18:50] <DanC> agenda + Tutorial Development
  250. # [18:50] * Zakim notes agendum 5 added
  251. # [18:50] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  252. # [18:50] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-html-wg-irc
  253. # [18:50] * Joins: CarolK (CarolK@69.155.218.184)
  254. # [18:52] <Zakim> HTML_WG()1:00PM has now started
  255. # [18:52] <Zakim> + +49.251.280.aaaa
  256. # [18:54] * DanC Zakim, call DanC-BOS
  257. # [18:54] * Zakim ok, DanC; the call is being made
  258. # [18:54] <Zakim> +DanC
  259. # [18:54] <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
  260. # [18:55] <DanC> Zakim, aaaa is Julian
  261. # [18:55] <Zakim> +Julian; got it
  262. # [18:55] * DanC munches a little lunch...
  263. # [18:55] <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/26-html-wg-minutes previous teleconference, 26 April
  264. # [18:56] <DanC> ACTION: ChrisW to try to find a Seattle/OZ/Asia time [CONTINUES]
  265. # [18:56] * RRSAgent records action 1
  266. # [18:57] <DanC> ACTION: DanC to call for forms tf volunteers (with review from John B.) [DONE]
  267. # [18:57] * RRSAgent records action 2
  268. # [18:57] <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007May/0280.html forms task force volunteers? (tasks survey)
  269. # [18:57] <DanC> ACTION: DanC to put the HTML spec baseline discussion by WBS in the next day or so [DONE]
  270. # [18:57] * RRSAgent records action 3
  271. # [18:58] <DanC> ACTION: DougS to review http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ProposedDesignPrinciples and advise the WG on whether to publish for community review, or whether critical problems remain [DONE]
  272. # [18:58] * RRSAgent records action 4
  273. # [18:58] <DanC> ACTION: IanH to review http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ProposedDesignPrinciples and advise the WG on whether to publish for community review, or whether critical problems remain [DONE]
  274. # [18:58] * RRSAgent records action 5
  275. # [18:58] <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
  276. # [18:58] <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene HTML WG meeting of 2007-07-12T17:00:00Z" taken up [from DanC]
  277. # [18:58] <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  278. # [18:58] <Zakim> On the phone I see Julian, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita
  279. # [18:58] <Zakim> +??P3
  280. # [18:59] <hsivonen> this is hsivonen
  281. # [18:59] <DanC> Zakim, ??P3 hsivonen
  282. # [18:59] <Zakim> I don't understand '??P3 hsivonen', DanC
  283. # [18:59] <DanC> Zakim, ??P3 is hsivonen
  284. # [18:59] <Zakim> +hsivonen; got it
  285. # [19:00] <DanC> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0635.html
  286. # [19:00] <DanC> (see also http://www.w3.org/html/wg/il16 )
  287. # [19:00] <Zakim> + +49.208.829.0.aabb
  288. # [19:00] * Joins: jgraham_ (jgraham@81.86.223.178)
  289. # [19:01] <DanC> Zakim, aabb is Marcin_Hanclik
  290. # [19:01] <Zakim> +Marcin_Hanclik; got it
  291. # [19:01] <DanC> (found the name in http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=40318&public=1&order=org )
  292. # [19:02] <DanC> regrets: mjs, Hickson, AnnevK
  293. # [19:03] <oedipus> is anyone else going to call into the telecon? there are only 5 of us on the phone
  294. # [19:03] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  295. # [19:03] <Zakim> agendum 2. "Detailed Spec Reviews, progress update" taken up [from DanC]
  296. # [19:04] <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jun/0282.html review schedule
  297. # [19:04] <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  298. # [19:04] <Zakim> On the phone I see Julian, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, hsivonen, Marcin_Hanclik
  299. # [19:05] <oedipus> Zakim teleconference bridge: +1.617.761.6200 or +33.4.89.06.34.99 or +44.117.370.6152 confernce code: HTML#
  300. # [19:05] <oedipus> HTML# equals 4865#
  301. # [19:06] <DanC> DanC: I'm still hoping to review the intro by 15 June, but it's somewhat at risk
  302. # [19:06] <DanC> hsivonen: the namespace section is one sentence; I did that. I'm on schedule for the other stuff.
  303. # [19:07] <DanC> ... I sent some comments on the parsing section. see msgs with subject "detailed review"
  304. # [19:07] <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tasks83/
  305. # [19:07] <oedipus> Henri's Review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0575.html
  306. # [19:09] <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fhtml%2Fwg%2Fwhowhat.xsl&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F40318%2Ftasks83%2Fresults&content-type=&submit=transform
  307. # [19:10] <DanC> # 2007-06-30 Debi Orton
  308. # [19:10] <DanC> 2007-06-30 Marco Neumann
  309. # [19:10] <DanC> 2007-06-30 Robert Burns
  310. # [19:10] <DanC> I think I saw some from Robert Burns
  311. # [19:10] <hsivonen> I've seen detailed review from myself, zcorpan, gsnedders and Rob Burns
  312. # [19:11] <gsnedders> I'm just converting the number tests over to JSON as we speak
  313. # [19:11] * DanC q?
  314. # [19:11] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  315. # [19:12] <DanC> DanC: goal is to have each section read by at least 2 WG members by the end of July or August
  316. # [19:13] * Joins: rburns (rburns@68.73.93.71)
  317. # [19:13] <DanC> ... I don't expect we'll fix the issues that get raised before publishing, but we'll have some knowledge of what we're publishing
  318. # [19:13] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  319. # [19:13] <Zakim> agendum 3. "Test suite organization" taken up [from DanC]
  320. # [19:13] <DanC> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HtmlTestMaterials
  321. # [19:14] <hsivonen> q+
  322. # [19:14] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  323. # [19:15] <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results
  324. # [19:15] <DanC> ack hsivonen
  325. # [19:15] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  326. # [19:16] <DanC> hsivonen: Anne and [forgot already] have done a bunch of good stuff; it would be nice to have a manifest. then the html5lib has the best parser tests; that's where contributions are going
  327. # [19:16] <DanC> s/[forgot already]/Simon Peters/
  328. # [19:17] <hsivonen> q+
  329. # [19:17] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  330. # [19:17] * Quits: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145) (Ping timeout)
  331. # [19:17] <DanC> ack hsivonen
  332. # [19:17] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  333. # [19:20] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241)
  334. # [19:22] <DanC> hsivonen: perhaps a simple manifest, conforming.txt that lists good files
  335. # [19:25] <DanC> DanC: there's collaboration logistics... and I'm obliged to bring up copyright/license issues sooner rather than later
  336. # [19:25] <DanC> hsivonen: some html5lib stuff is MIT/expat, some from google is Apache license
  337. # [19:25] <DanC> ... copyright by individuals, I suppose
  338. # [19:25] <DanC> (goodness, philip taylor?)
  339. # [19:27] <Philip`> (There's two Philip Taylors - the one doing tests is not the one doing, er, whatever he's doing on the list)
  340. # [19:27] <DanC> DanC: in order for this WG to use these tests, they should be contributed to the WG
  341. # [19:27] <Zakim> +??P5
  342. # [19:27] <DanC> Zakim, ??P5 is Arun
  343. # [19:27] <Zakim> +Arun; got it
  344. # [19:28] <hsivonen> DanC, the Philip Taylor I mentioned just showed up
  345. # [19:28] <jgraham_> If there's anything in html5lib that isn't MIT licensed it should be removed
  346. # [19:28] <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/testgrants2-200409/
  347. # [19:28] <DanC> Grant II: Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published Outside a W3C Recommendation
  348. # [19:29] <DanC> DanC: and write access to the html5lib stuff?
  349. # [19:29] <DanC> hsivonen: Anne and James handle that
  350. # [19:30] * Joins: arun (chatzilla@64.236.139.157)
  351. # [19:31] * Joins: Sander (svl@80.60.87.115)
  352. # [19:31] <jgraham_> html5lib write access is on an as-required basis at the moment.
  353. # [19:31] * DanC nak, can't hear you, gregory
  354. # [19:31] <jgraham_> But the tests could always be hosted somewhere else
  355. # [19:32] <DanC> I'm interested in decentralized hosting using hg/bzr/git
  356. # [19:32] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  357. # [19:32] <Zakim> agendum 4. "Email traffic shaping" taken up [from DanC]
  358. # [19:33] <oedipus> use [test] as a subject-line marker, results posted to the list as part of the thread; one test per post
  359. # [19:34] <hsivonen> q+
  360. # [19:34] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  361. # [19:36] <DanC> ack hsivonen
  362. # [19:36] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  363. # [19:40] <hsivonen> I find a mailing list easier to keep track of than wikis
  364. # [19:40] <hsivonen> q+
  365. # [19:40] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  366. # [19:40] <Julian> The noise ratio is a big problem; it's really easy to miss important announcements.
  367. # [19:41] <arun> heiki, are you able to follow all threads? are there threads you're watching more than usual?
  368. # [19:41] <DanC> ack hsivonen
  369. # [19:41] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  370. # [19:41] <arun> sorry, heiki = henri
  371. # [19:41] <arun> s/heiki/henri
  372. # [19:42] * Quits: Sander (svl@80.60.87.115) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  373. # [19:42] <arun> +1 henri
  374. # [19:42] <jgraham_> Big announcements could go on the homepage feed
  375. # [19:42] <oedipus> convergence of wiki materials -- ESW and WHAT WG wikis need to at least be able to map to one another, running 2 wikis working on the same project sounds to me like a recipie for a migraine
  376. # [19:43] <hsivonen> arun: I read all the messages to public-html.
  377. # [19:43] <DanC> big announcements do go on the WG homepage, but with a latency of ~1 week
  378. # [19:44] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  379. # [19:44] <Zakim> agendum 5. "Tutorial Development" taken up [from DanC]
  380. # [19:44] <Julian> DanC: I guess the WG homepage needs an Atom feed, then :-)
  381. # [19:44] <DanC> DanC: 40+ ppl indicated interest, but we don't have a draft. I wonder if a mailing list would help.
  382. # [19:45] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  383. # [19:45] <Zakim> I do not see any non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, DanC
  384. # [19:46] <DanC> Topic: next teleconference?
  385. # [19:47] <Zakim> -Julian
  386. # [19:47] <Zakim> -Arun
  387. # [19:47] <Zakim> -hsivonen
  388. # [19:47] <Zakim> -Marcin_Hanclik
  389. # [19:48] <Zakim> -DanC
  390. # [19:48] <DanC> next teleconference maybe in a week. i.e. the WG is hereby given its 7 day notice. An agenda or cancellation notice will go out by T-24hrs.
  391. # [19:48] <DanC> ADJOURN.
  392. # [19:48] <DanC> Meeting: HTML WG Teleconference
  393. # [19:48] <DanC> Chair: DanC
  394. # [19:48] <DanC> Scribe: DanC
  395. # [19:48] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  396. # [19:48] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  397. # [19:55] <jgraham_> hsivonen: Do you have a testcase for the frameset bug in html5lib you mentioned this morning?
  398. # [19:56] <hsivonen> jgraham_: not yet :-)
  399. # [19:56] <jgraham_> OK, I'm just likely to forget to look at it unless some testcase fails :)
  400. # [20:01] <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
  401. # [20:01] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, DanC
  402. # [20:02] <DanC> Zakim, list participants
  403. # [20:02] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +49.251.280.aaaa, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, Julian, hsivonen, +49.208.829.0.aabb, Marcin_Hanclik, Arun
  404. # [20:02] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  405. # [20:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  406. # [20:02] <DanC> Zakim, bye
  407. # [20:02] <Zakim> leaving. As of this point the attendees were +49.251.280.aaaa, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, Julian, hsivonen, +49.208.829.0.aabb, Marcin_Hanclik, Arun
  408. # [20:02] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  409. # [20:02] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  410. # [20:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  411. # [20:03] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502])
  412. # [20:03] <DanC> looks like the record needs clean-up by hand
  413. # [20:03] <DanC> RRSAgent, stop
  414. # [20:03] * RRSAgent is not logging
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  416. # [20:13] * Quits: jgraham_ (jgraham@81.86.223.178) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  417. # [20:13] * Parts: rburns (rburns@68.73.93.71)
  418. # [20:16] <DanC> ah... json... good idea, gsnedders
  419. # [20:19] * Joins: kingryan (rking3@208.66.64.47)
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  428. # [21:19] <gsnedders> DanC: not mine
  429. # [21:19] <gsnedders> (the idea)
  430. # [21:19] <DanC> well, it's a good one regardless ;-)
  431. # [21:22] <gsnedders> seemingly tricky to get to work with phpunit, though
  432. # [21:23] <gsnedders> DanC: I take it the ask of Chris to find a Seattle/OZ/Asia time is due to you being paranoid you'll get it wrong? :)
  433. # [21:26] <DanC> not really; it's because I expect him to run those meetings
  434. # [21:26] <gsnedders> ah
  435. # [21:27] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
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  440. # [22:00] <hsivonen> jgraham: is it ok to append the frameset test to tests1.dat?
  441. # [22:19] * RRSAgent excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  442. # [22:19] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
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  456. # Session Close: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2007

The end :)