/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-07-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 19 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:01] <hsivonen> I like the FogCreek approach to PHP
  4. # [00:01] <hsivonen> (they treat PHP as a compiler target)
  5. # [00:02] <gsnedders> hsivonen: link?
  6. # [00:05] <hsivonen> gsnedders: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/09/01b.html
  7. # [00:06] <gsnedders> ah
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  12. # [00:39] <tH> oh, and in case anyone wants some pointless statistics, http://bugs.rdmsoft.com/html/stats/2007-07-18/tagstats
  13. # [00:39] <tH> (hey, I had to find /something/ to do with the code after I'd written it :P )
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  31. # [05:02] <karl> http://www.kavi.com/blog/?p=582
  32. # [05:02] <karl> interesting about process
  33. # [05:02] <karl> "A technical process should allow any interested party to join in the work of developing and approving a standard. That’s part of being open, and openness"
  34. # [05:02] <karl> "But a committee process shouldn’t necessarily allow anyone to come and go as they please, and give the right to vote to anyone who walks in off the street at the last minute. Allowing public inspection of a committee’s activities is important, and public comment should be encouraged."
  35. # [05:03] <karl> "But participants should not be allowed to vote until they have been participating long enough to understand the issues and the technology behind the specification, and the process should especially guard against last-minute packing of the room."
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  55. # [10:24] <hsivonen> hmm. looks like I've sent the second largest number of messages to the list this month. not something to be particularly proud of considering the circumstances :-(
  56. # [10:45] <jgraham> hsivonen: 3.6 messages per day hardly seems like any compared to the 6.5 per day that Robert has managed since he first posted on June 20th
  57. # [10:46] <jgraham> And I would bet yours have been shorter and more likely to result in spec change on average too :)
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  106. # [17:46] <zcorpan> "When the src attribute is set, the user agent must immediately begin to download the specified resource, unless the user agent cannot support images, or its support for images has been disabled."
  107. # [17:46] <zcorpan> "The download of the image must delay the load event."
  108. # [17:46] <zcorpan> not sure how to test those two requirements
  109. # [17:46] <zcorpan> #img
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  111. # [17:49] <zcorpan> "User agents must not support non-image resources with the img element." -- what is a non-image resource?
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  117. # [18:53] <DanC> Zakim, this will be html
  118. # [18:53] <Zakim> ok, DanC; I see HTML_WG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
  119. # [18:53] <DanC> any scribe volunteers?
  120. # [18:53] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  121. # [18:53] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-html-wg-irc
  122. # [18:54] <DanC> agenda + Convene HTML WG meeting of 2007-07-19T17:00:00Z
  123. # [18:54] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  124. # [18:54] <DanC> agenda + Detailed Spec Reviews, progress update
  125. # [18:54] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
  126. # [18:54] <DanC> agenda + proposed design principles
  127. # [18:54] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
  128. # [18:54] <DanC> agenda + Email traffic shaping
  129. # [18:54] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
  130. # [18:54] <DanC> agenda + Test suite organization
  131. # [18:54] * Zakim notes agendum 5 added
  132. # [18:57] * Joins: Chris (cwilso@131.107.0.72)
  133. # [18:57] * DanC Zakim, call DanC-BOS
  134. # [18:57] * Zakim ok, DanC; the call is being made
  135. # [18:57] <Zakim> HTML_WG()1:00PM has now started
  136. # [18:57] <Zakim> +DanC
  137. # [18:58] <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
  138. # [18:58] <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene HTML WG meeting of 2007-07-19T17:00:00Z" taken up [from DanC]
  139. # [18:58] <DanC> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0900.html
  140. # [18:58] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  141. # [18:58] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  142. # [18:58] <Zakim> +Julian
  143. # [18:59] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
  144. # [18:59] <DanC> Zakim, [Microsoft] is ChrisW
  145. # [18:59] <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
  146. # [18:59] <DanC> Zakim, [Mozilla] Gavin_Sharp
  147. # [18:59] <Zakim> I don't understand '[Mozilla] Gavin_Sharp', DanC
  148. # [19:00] <DanC> Zakim, [Mozilla] is Gavin_Sharp
  149. # [19:00] <Zakim> +Gavin_Sharp; got it
  150. # [19:00] <Zakim> + +1.218.340.aaaa
  151. # [19:00] <Zakim> - +1.218.340.aaaa
  152. # [19:01] <Zakim> +??P0
  153. # [19:02] <Zakim> +Marcin_Hanclik
  154. # [19:02] <DanC> Zakim, ??P0 is hsivonen
  155. # [19:02] <Zakim> +hsivonen; got it
  156. # [19:03] <hsivonen> advance regrets for having to leave early
  157. # [19:03] <DanC> regrets: Hickson, AnnevK (holiday), Orton, Sneddon
  158. # [19:04] <DanC> Chair: DanC
  159. # [19:04] <DanC> Scribe: DanC
  160. # [19:04] <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  161. # [19:04] <Zakim> On the phone I see DanC, Julian, ChrisW, Gavin_Sharp, hsivonen, Marcin_Hanclik
  162. # [19:04] <DanC> http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html
  163. # [19:05] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  164. # [19:05] <Zakim> agendum 2. "Detailed Spec Reviews, progress update" taken up [from DanC]
  165. # [19:05] <DanC> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SpecReviews
  166. # [19:06] <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fhtml%2Fwg%2Fwhowhat.xsl&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F40318%2Ftasks83%2Fresults&content-type=&submit=transform
  167. # [19:06] <DanC> DanC: reviews are coming in, with detailed test discussions arising
  168. # [19:06] <DanC> DanC: sorry I haven't done my review of intro yet
  169. # [19:07] <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-html-wg-minutes
  170. # [19:07] <DanC> "<hsivonen> I've seen detailed review from myself, zcorpan, gsnedders and Rob Burns"
  171. # [19:07] <hsivonen> zcorpan is Simon Pieters
  172. # [19:08] <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0822.html DOMTokenList.add() when the underlying string is empty (detailed review of the DOM) Simon Pieters (Tuesday, 17 July)
  173. # [19:08] <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  174. # [19:08] <Zakim> On the phone I see DanC, Julian, ChrisW, Gavin_Sharp, hsivonen, Marcin_Hanclik
  175. # [19:11] <DanC> Dan goes around the table noting sections people here are reviewing...
  176. # [19:11] <DanC> DanC: with reviews coming in thru end of august, perhaps better to aim for mid sep for spec release
  177. # [19:12] <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tasks83/
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  179. # [19:13] <DanC> hsivonen: on schedule. implemented tree builder and tokenizer...
  180. # [19:13] <DanC> ... so things are going as planned
  181. # [19:13] * DanC waves to dbaron, wondering if he's likely to call in
  182. # [19:14] <DanC> Zakim, passcode?
  183. # [19:14] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), DanC
  184. # [19:14] * dbaron was not
  185. # [19:14] * dbaron was not planning to
  186. # [19:15] <DanC> [maybe more stuff to record...]
  187. # [19:15] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  188. # [19:15] <Zakim> agendum 3. "proposed design principles" taken up [from DanC]
  189. # [19:15] <DanC> I'm thinking about a survey... http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/dprv/
  190. # [19:17] <DanC> DanC: [trying to connect with mjs...]
  191. # [19:18] <DanC> ChrisW: I think "don't break the web" got replaced by 2, and those are disputed
  192. # [19:19] <DanC> DanC: I need to update my agenda page
  193. # [19:19] <DanC> ACTION ChrisW: ping mjs re design principles
  194. # [19:19] * RRSAgent records action 1
  195. # [19:20] <DanC> ChrisW: and if that doesn't work out, I'll try to look at pending comments
  196. # [19:20] <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  197. # [19:20] <Zakim> On the phone I see DanC, Julian, ChrisW, Gavin_Sharp, hsivonen, Marcin_Hanclik
  198. # [19:21] <DanC> DanC: I'm trying to use the design principles in the design review discussion; it worked well once and poorly once
  199. # [19:22] <DanC> ChrisW: there are some things I'd like expanded... "secure by design". I think we'll have to make a decision on the disputed principles soon. There are arguments both ways, but it's important to say something.
  200. # [19:22] <DanC> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ProposedDesignPrinciples
  201. # [19:22] <Julian> which ones are the ones being disputed?
  202. # [19:23] <DanC> ACTION Gavin_Sharp: review design principles in the next two weeks
  203. # [19:23] * RRSAgent records action 2
  204. # [19:24] <DanC> hsivonen: yesterday I saw discussion about being "structural"; it seems low priority to me.
  205. # [19:24] <DanC> ... I agree with "visible metadata" and "no version syntax"
  206. # [19:25] * DanC q?
  207. # [19:25] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  208. # [19:25] <DanC> DanC: timing? stick with Mid Aug?
  209. # [19:25] <DanC> (some concur)
  210. # [19:25] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  211. # [19:25] <Zakim> agendum 4. "Email traffic shaping" taken up [from DanC]
  212. # [19:27] <DanC> DanC: I'm interested for help with email traffic shaping
  213. # [19:29] <hsivonen> q+
  214. # [19:29] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  215. # [19:31] <DanC> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SpecReviews
  216. # [19:32] <DanC> ack hsivonen
  217. # [19:32] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  218. # [19:33] <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0874.html Character encoding errors (detailed review of parsing algorithm) Henri Sivonen (Wednesday, 18 July)
  219. # [19:34] <DanC> ^works well for me
  220. # [19:34] <hsivonen> unfortunately, my time is up. have to leave.
  221. # [19:34] <DanC> hsivonen: editors encourage that style too
  222. # [19:34] * zcorpan notes that reviews so far include "detailed review of" or "my review of" in the subject line. just "review of" also includes other stuff
  223. # [19:35] <DanC> ChrisW: I wonder how to incorporate voting/group-priority, digg-style into the system
  224. # [19:35] <Zakim> -hsivonen
  225. # [19:36] <DanC> DanC: yes... hmm.. some way to do "+1" that doesn't involve mail to 400 inboxes
  226. # [19:37] <DanC> hmm... www-collaboration ...
  227. # [19:37] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  228. # [19:37] <Zakim> agendum 5. "Test suite organization" taken up [from DanC]
  229. # [19:37] <hsivonen> (I'm sorry if I missed something addressed to me. an incoming call messed me up)
  230. # [19:37] <DanC> regrets+ Geoffrey Sneddon
  231. # [19:38] <DanC> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HtmlTestMaterials
  232. # [19:40] <DanC> DanC: we have offers, in the tasks survey, to do testing and report results
  233. # [19:40] * DanC agenda?
  234. # [19:40] * Zakim sees 1 item remaining on the agenda:
  235. # [19:40] * Zakim 5. Test suite organization [from DanC]
  236. # [19:41] <DanC> ChrisW: might talk to CSS WG too
  237. # [19:42] <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2007Jul/0004.html Testing the submission framework for the Open Mobile Web Test Suite
  238. # [19:44] <DanC> Topic: next meeting: 2 Aug
  239. # [19:44] <DanC> DanC: I offer to chair 2 Aug
  240. # [19:44] <DanC> 26 July is cancelled.
  241. # [19:45] <Zakim> -ChrisW
  242. # [19:45] <Zakim> -Julian
  243. # [19:45] * Quits: Chris (cwilso@131.107.0.72) (Quit: Chris)
  244. # [19:45] <Zakim> -Marcin_Hanclik
  245. # [19:45] <Zakim> -Gavin_Sharp
  246. # [19:45] <DanC> Zakim, I hung up
  247. # [19:45] <Zakim> I don't understand 'I hung up', DanC
  248. # [19:45] <DanC> Zakim, drop danc
  249. # [19:45] <Zakim> DanC is being disconnected
  250. # [19:45] <Zakim> HTML_WG()1:00PM has ended
  251. # [19:45] <Zakim> Attendees were DanC, Julian, ChrisW, Gavin_Sharp, +1.218.340.aaaa, Marcin_Hanclik, hsivonen
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  256. # [20:26] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  257. # [20:26] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  258. # [20:26] <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
  259. # [20:26] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, DanC
  260. # [20:27] <DanC> Meeting: HTML WG Teleconference
  261. # [20:27] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  262. # [20:27] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  263. # [20:31] <DanC> ACTION: ChrisW to try to find a Seattle/OZ/Asia time [CONTINUES]
  264. # [20:31] * RRSAgent records action 3
  265. # [20:31] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  266. # [20:31] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  267. # [20:44] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@86.34.246.154) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  268. # [20:57] <oedipus> according to zakim, the conference room is full
  269. # [21:00] * Joins: mnx (chatzilla@71.4.172.2)
  270. # [21:06] <oedipus> according to zakim, the conference room is restricted at this time... the agenda said 1700z, but josh at MIT said the call was scheduled from 1pm boston time to 3pm boston time
  271. # [21:07] <DanC> the conference is done
  272. # [21:07] <oedipus> thanks, DanC, i mustn't have received the memo
  273. # [21:07] <DanC> it started right around 1700Z and finished around 1748Z
  274. # [21:08] <DanC> i.e. 1:00 to 1:48pm boston time
  275. # [21:08] <DanC> was there anything in particular you wanted to discuss?
  276. # [21:08] * DanC struggles to remember who oedipus is from that IRC nick
  277. # [21:08] <oedipus> my internal clock must be off - i'll read the minutes
  278. # [21:08] <oedipus> oedipus = gregory j. rosmaita
  279. # [21:09] <DanC> ah. thanks
  280. # [21:09] <oedipus> at least i spent the time constructively, working on the WG's wiki
  281. # [21:09] <DanC> cool
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  292. # [22:46] <zcorpan> ah. right. i had promised to contribute with test cases for xhr
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  302. # Session Close: Fri Jul 20 00:00:00 2007

The end :)