/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-09-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Sep 07 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  8. # [00:34] <hasather> DanC: you there?
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  10. # [00:39] <DanC> well, sorta; I like for people to give me a few keywords when they ping me so I can evaluate the priority of the request vs. other stuff I'm doing.
  11. # [00:39] <DanC> what's up, hasather ?
  12. # [00:41] <hasather> oh, sorry. I'm not listed at http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=40318&public=1
  13. # [00:41] <hasather> I noticed that mu inbox got less mail than usual
  14. # [00:41] <hasather> Or should I contact someone else?
  15. # [00:42] <DanC> I take it you joined the WG at some point?
  16. # [00:42] <hasather> Yes
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  18. # [00:42] <hasather> mail stopped at 3rd it seems
  19. # [00:43] <DanC> do you remember when you joined? I'm having trouble finding record that you joined
  20. # [00:44] <hasather> first week or something
  21. # [00:44] <hasather> when Hixie posted the details on how to join
  22. # [00:44] <DanC> ah... 9 March. found it
  23. # [00:44] <DanC> some part of the email infrastructure mangled your surname
  24. # [00:44] <DanC> or maybe our WBS forms thingy
  25. # [00:45] <DanC> hmm... then on 27 Jun, opera nominated you.
  26. # [00:45] <hasather> Yes, I was a summer intern
  27. # [00:46] <DanC> the robot usually sends me mail when somebody leaves. I don't see anything about that.
  28. # [00:47] * DanC is stumped
  29. # [00:49] <DanC> mail stopped 3rd Sep? or 3rd Aug?
  30. # [00:49] <hasather> September
  31. # [00:51] <hasather> actually, it might have been 28th of August. Sorry
  32. # [00:51] <DanC> well, I reported the problem to the W3C systems team by email, with copy to you
  33. # [00:52] <hasather> Thank you very much for taking the time
  34. # [00:52] <DanC> welcome.
  35. # [00:53] <DanC> if you have that sort of problem when I'm not around, Karl can help.
  36. # [00:53] <DanC> his office hours and mine mostly don't overlap
  37. # [00:53] <DanC> he handles most of the signing-up stuff, actually.
  38. # [00:53] <hasather> ok, thanks
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  149. # [11:41] <hsivonen> http://samuraireview.wordpress.com/technical-review/
  150. # [11:41] <hsivonen> the comment under Testability is interesting considering some recent public-html discussion
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  158. # [13:15] <hsivonen> what's the current development status of Unicorn? is the W3C still pursuing it? should I make validator.nu Unicorn-compatible?
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  167. # [17:41] <Lachy> hsivonen, I made use of the validator new API and implemented HTML5 validation using XHR in http://html5.lachy.id.au/output (I just proxy the request through my own server to get around cross domain security issues). It works well
  168. # [17:43] <hsivonen> Lachy: cool!
  169. # [17:48] <hsivonen> is there anything I can do with the current XHR browsers to make it work without proxying?
  170. # [17:49] <hsivonen> Lachy: is that page OK to link to from validator.nu docs?
  171. # [17:49] <Lachy> sure, you can link to anything
  172. # [17:50] <Lachy> I'll make the source of it available soon (though it basically uses a stripped down version of the py script you gave us yesterday)
  173. # [17:51] <Lachy> I don't believe there's anything you can do to avoid proxying, since the solution is Access-Control which isn't supported yet
  174. # [17:51] <Philip> hsivonen: Maybe make it output JS code like "callback(stuff_in_json)" so people can include it via <script> (with the document in the query string)?
  175. # [17:51] <Philip> Not exactly elegant, but it sometimes works
  176. # [17:52] <Lachy> Philip, you can't POST an entity with that technique, it would all have to be done in the query string
  177. # [17:53] <hsivonen> Lachy: linked
  178. # [17:53] <zcorpan_> Lachy: can you share the source for /validate ?
  179. # [17:53] <anne> "Required descendants missing from element." is not entirely clear if you omit <head> etc.
  180. # [17:53] <anne> (it's about <title> missing)
  181. # [17:54] <hsivonen> Philip: OK. JSON is on the todo list.
  182. # [17:54] <hsivonen> Philip: should I allow the callback name to be configured?
  183. # [17:54] <Philip> You could do "callback(stuff_in_xml)" and have it work in all the browsers that support E4X :-)
  184. # [17:54] <hsivonen> with pure json if callback name == null?
  185. # [17:54] <Lachy> zcorpan, not immediately, since I'm remotely connected to my computer over a relatively slow connection, so that would be difficult
  186. # [17:54] <Lachy> I'll be home on sunday, I can do it then
  187. # [17:55] <hsivonen> Philip: are there other E4X browsers besides Gecko-based?
  188. # [17:55] <anne> Lachy, you would set up a redirect for http://blog.whatwg.org/faq
  189. # [17:55] <Philip> I don't really know much about how this stuff usually works, but configurable callback names sound good so you can have multiple asynchronous requests and work out which response corresponds to each one
  190. # [17:56] <Philip> hsivonen: None that I know of
  191. # [17:56] <Lachy> though, it's easy to implement. Just read sys.stdin.read() for the HTML, os.environ["CONTENT_TYPE"] and use httplib to POST it to html5.validator.nu?out=text
  192. # [17:59] <Lachy> zcorpan, http://html5.lachy.id.au/output?data=%23%21%2Fusr%2Fbin%2Fpython%0D%0A%0D%0A%23+Copyright+%28c%29+2007+Mozilla+Foundation%0D%0A%23%0D%0A%23+Permission+is+hereby+granted%2C+free+of+charge%2C+to+any+person+obtaining+a+%0D%0A%23+copy+of+this+software+and+associated+documentation+files+%28the+%22Software%22%29%2C+%0D%0A%23+to+deal+in+the+Software+without+restriction%2C+including+without+limit
  193. # [17:59] <Lachy> ation+%0D%0A%23+the+rights+to+use%2C+copy%2C+modify%2C+merge%2C+publish%2C+distribute%2C+sublicense%2C+%0D%0A%23+and%2For+sell+copies+of+the+Software%2C+and+to+permit+persons+to+whom+the+%0D%0A%23+Software+is+furnished+to+do+so%2C+subject+to+the+following+conditions%3A%0D%0A%23%0D%0A%23+The+above+copyright+notice+and+this+permission+notice+shall+be+included+in+%0D%0A%23+all+copies+or+substantial+p
  194. # [17:59] <Lachy> ortions+of+the+Software.%0D%0A%23%0D%0A%23+THE+SOFTWARE+IS+PROVIDED+%22AS+IS%22%2C+WITHOUT+WARRANTY+OF+ANY+KIND%2C+EXPRESS+OR+%0D%0A%23+IMPLIED%2C+INCLUDING+BUT+NOT+LIMITED+TO+THE+WARRANTIES+OF+MERCHANTABILITY%2C+%0D%0A%23+FITNESS+FOR+A+PARTICULAR+PURPOSE+AND+NONINFRINGEMENT.+IN+NO+EVENT+SHALL+%0D%0A%23+THE+AUTHORS+OR+COPYRIGHT+HOLDERS+BE+LIABLE+FOR+ANY+CLAIM%2C+DAMAGES+OR+OTHER+%0D%0A%23+LIABILIT
  195. # [17:59] <Lachy> Y%2C+WHETHER+IN+AN+ACTION+OF+CONTRACT%2C+TORT+OR+OTHERWISE%2C+ARISING+%0D%0A%23+FROM%2C+OUT+OF+OR+IN+CONNECTION+WITH+THE+SOFTWARE+OR+THE+USE+OR+OTHER+%0D%0A%23+DEALINGS+IN+THE+SOFTWARE.%0D%0A%0D%0Aimport+httplib%0D%0Aimport+os%0D%0Aimport+sys%0D%0A%0D%0A%23Debugging%0D%0Aimport+cgitb%0D%0Acgitb.enable%28%29%0D%0A%0D%0Aif+os.environ.has_key%28%22CONTENT_TYPE%22%29%3A%0D%0A++contentType+%3D+os.envir
  196. # [17:59] <Lachy> on%5B%22CONTENT_TYPE%22%5D%0D%0Aelse%3A%0D%0A++contentType+%3D+%22text%2Fhtml%3B+charset%3DUTF-8%22%0D%0A%0D%0AinputHandle+%3D+sys.stdin%0D%0A%0D%0Adata+%3D+inputHandle.read%28%29%0D%0A%0D%0Aprint+%22Content-Type%3A+text%2Fplain%3B+charset%3DUTF-8%5Cr%5Cn%22%0D%0A%0D%0Aconnection+%3D+httplib.HTTPConnection%28%27html5.validator.nu%27%29%0D%0Aconnection.connect%28%29%0D%0Aconnection.putrequest%28%22
  197. # [17:59] <Lachy> POST%22%2C+%22%2F%3Fout%3Dtext%22%29%0D%0Aconnection.putheader%28%22Content-Type%22%2C+contentType%29%0D%0Aconnection.putheader%28%22Content-Length%22%2C+len%28data%29%29%0D%0Aconnection.endheaders%28%29%0D%0Aconnection.send%28data%29%0D%0A%0D%0Aresponse+%3D+connection.getresponse%28%29%0D%0A%0D%0Asys.stdout.write%28response.read%28%29%29%0D%0A%0D%0Aconnection.close%28%29%0D%0A&type=text%2Fplain%3
  198. # [17:59] <Lachy> Bcharset%3DUTF-8
  199. # [18:00] <Lachy> ah, try this instead http://html5.lachy.id.au/clipboard
  200. # [18:01] <hsivonen> should probably remember to sanitize the callback name to make sure mere URI manipulation cannot inject random executables to the validator.nu domain
  201. # [18:03] <zcorpan_> Lachy: thanks
  202. # [18:03] <Philip> The first I remembering hearing about the <script> callback technique was when people were talking about how it caused XSS vulnerabilities in Google
  203. # [18:04] <Philip> so then I thought that it sounds like a useful trick and I don't care about security, so I started copying it
  204. # [18:04] <Lachy> zcorpan, feel free to fix any bugs with it and check it into google code for me
  205. # [18:05] <zcorpan_> Lachy: ok (though don't count on it) :)
  206. # [18:06] <Lachy> no worries, I'll do it next week if you don't
  207. # [18:07] <zcorpan_> hmm, i'm thinking about there should be an easy way to create a custom subset of the html5 schema, e.g. if you only want to allow some elements
  208. # [18:08] <zcorpan_> without having to know rnc
  209. # [18:09] <Lachy> a nice form that allows users to select the elements they want to allow, which generates the appropriate schema would be nice
  210. # [18:09] <hsivonen> Philip: well, validator.nu has no cookies, logins or such, so there aren't credentials to steal
  211. # [18:10] <zcorpan_> Lachy: yeah, exactly
  212. # [18:10] <hsivonen> speaking of security, if I zap characters that XML forbids, will I end up zapping curses that would confuse terminals?
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  214. # [18:12] <Lachy> might be easier to produce a set of schemas that a suited for different tasks. e.g. a blog might use one schema for validating blog posts and a more restricted one for comments
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  218. # [18:15] <hsivonen> zcorpan_: the whattf schemas already have so many configuration axes that I don't want to expose that many checkboxes by default
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  245. # [21:55] <zcorpan_> hsivonen: ok
  246. # [22:31] <Hixie> don't forget to fill out http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2007/registrants#html if you're going to the f2f btw
  247. # [22:44] * Quits: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.105) (Ping timeout)
  248. # [22:49] <mjs> that's right, I need to register
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  250. # [22:53] * kingryan can't access that page
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  252. # [23:09] <emeriste> What is the channel about?
  253. # [23:09] <zcorpan_> emeriste: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/
  254. # [23:17] <emeriste> Thank you zcorpan
  255. # [23:18] <emeriste> Wow.
  256. # [23:18] <emeriste> Does Tim Berners Lee chat here?
  257. # [23:18] <zcorpan_> not very often
  258. # [23:19] <zcorpan_> i think i've seen him here once during a telecon
  259. # [23:19] <emeriste> Are you the people who decide how HTML and related mark ups are going to work and how web browsers should handle it?
  260. # [23:20] <zcorpan_> sort of
  261. # [23:20] <emeriste> That's really something. I'm really impressed.
  262. # [23:21] <zcorpan_> :)
  263. # [23:21] <zcorpan_> you can take part
  264. # [23:21] <emeriste> No Im afraid I don't have the knowledge base.
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  266. # [23:21] <emeriste> Perhaps some day.
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  268. # [23:22] <zcorpan_> http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1173385976&count=1
  269. # [23:22] <zcorpan_> or you can join the whatwg (simpler)
  270. # [23:22] <zcorpan_> http://www.whatwg.org/
  271. # [23:27] <emeriste> I see.
  272. # [23:29] <emeriste> zcorpan_ could you say, in layman's terms, broadly speaking, what kind of work the working group does?
  273. # [23:33] <zcorpan_> we work on the html5 spec. which includes researching web pages, existing implementations, writing the spec, implementing the spec, providing implementation feedback, writing test cases
  274. # [23:33] <zcorpan_> adding new features to html to make things simpler for authors and the experience better for users
  275. # [23:33] <emeriste> I see.
  276. # [23:34] <emeriste> I thought html was being abandoned for xhmtl.
  277. # [23:34] <zcorpan_> it's not
  278. # [23:35] <zcorpan_> both are worked on in parallell
  279. # [23:35] <zcorpan_> or actually it's the same language, just different syntax
  280. # [23:37] <emeriste> Hm.
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  282. # [23:53] <anne> DanC, does the forms TF have a chair or something?
  283. # [23:54] <anne> DanC, I'm asking as it's unclear to me how this group is going to start
  284. # [23:54] <Hixie> as far as i can tell the six members are expected to get their act together on their own
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  286. # [23:54] <Hixie> self-appointing a chair, or working as a group, as desired
  287. # [23:55] <DanC> no chair. as hixie says, we're hoping they'll self-organize
  288. # [23:55] <DanC> picking your own chair would be fine, I guess
  289. # [23:56] <Hixie> i'm kinda surprised that the group basically died without even one flamewar
  290. # [23:56] <Hixie> i'm assuming it'll pick up at some point
  291. # [23:56] <DanC> I saw some introductions. that looked like a good start
  292. # [23:56] <Hixie> yeah it started well
  293. # [23:56] <Hixie> then fizzled
  294. # [23:56] <anne> yeah, 5 of 6
  295. # [23:57] <DanC> there were some mailing list mechanical issues; Chris couldn't send his answer to gregory's question to the list cuz the list got closed
  296. # [23:57] <Hixie> ah
  297. # [23:57] <DanC> in the hand-over to lachy, I accidently got one of the systems guys to close it to non-tf-members
  298. # [23:58] <DanC> I said something like "but the system won't prevent posting from people outside the tf" and gerald said "I can fix that... presto."
  299. # [23:59] <DanC> I was so impressed that I didn't realized that wasn't what I wanted
  300. # [23:59] <anne> (then there's also the problem that the charters suggest various things that we've to do)
  301. # [00:00] <DanC> the initial experiment is to ask the TF to craft a charter out of the various extant bits.
  302. # Session Close: Sat Sep 08 00:00:00 2007

The end :)