/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-09-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Sep 09 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  12. # [02:04] <emeriste> any idea why the w3c validator is trying to validate javascript inside a <script> tag rather than only the xhtml?
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  14. # [02:15] <Philip> emeriste: You probably need to write <script>//<![CDATA[ ...code... //]]></script>
  15. # [02:16] <Philip> (or write HTML instead of XHTML)
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  17. # [02:22] <Dashiva> If you have to ask, you shouldn't be using xhtml ;)
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  20. # [02:28] <emeriste> I don't even know what my question means. I was just asking for the benefit of someone else. I passed on the answer too.
  21. # [02:28] <emeriste> Thank you for answering it.
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  23. # [02:31] <Philip> On a different topic: http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/stats/scripts.html is information about script types/languages from 8192 pages minus the uncounted number that failed for various reasons
  24. # [02:32] <Philip> (It now takes me ten minutes to download and analyse that number of pages)
  25. # [02:34] <Philip> Oh, the layout of those tables is a bit dodgy in Opera 9.5 - the labels and numbers are misaligned in the ~0% cases
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  28. # [03:14] <Philip> http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/stats/scripts2.html - 16384 in 240 seconds, when I borrow university computing resources
  29. # [03:14] <Philip> (I hope they don't have network security people worrying that there's a DDOS attack with sixteen thousand web servers sending responses to me)
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  89. # [20:37] * anne e-mailed the forms TF member who didn't introduce himself yet
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  91. # [22:32] * anne wonders where HTML4 states that the algorithm only applies to data cells and not to header cells
  92. # [22:34] * jgraham wonders exactly the same thing
  93. # [22:35] * anne asks
  94. # [22:40] <Philip> The title "11.4.1 Associating header information with data cells" sounds like it's talking about data cells
  95. # [22:40] <anne> yeah, but this is about 11.4.3
  96. # [22:41] <anne> but maybe you can derive the intent of the spec from that
  97. # [22:42] <anne> ...
  98. # [22:42] <Philip> It's all in 11.4, so it's kind of nearby, and one won't get very far with understanding HTML4 if you try to read pedantically or precisely :-)
  99. # [22:43] <jgraham> That's as close as I could get too
  100. # [22:44] <anne> hmm
  101. # [22:44] <Philip> I think someone suggested you have to read the algorithm "generously", which presumably means you should assume the people writing the spec knew what they were doing but just couldn't write it down adequately
  102. # [22:44] <jgraham> Assuming you were to say that only data cells have headers would this be <th> cells only or the other cells that HTML 4 defines as header cells e.g. <td axis="">?
  103. # [22:44] <anne> that was on html4all I think
  104. # [22:45] <anne> something about a generous reading of the html4 spec made it also work for <thead>
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  106. # [22:53] <anne> jgraham, or <td headers="foo"><td id="foo>is this a header cell?</td>
  107. # [22:54] <anne> HTML4 is not really interesting as it's all just guesswork which seems to lead to debates about "intent" rather than "what works good?"
  108. # [22:55] * Philip discovers that java.net.URI is a bit rubbish, and org.apache.commons.httpclient.URI works far better
  109. # [22:58] <jgraham> Note that the definition of headers says "This attribute specifies the list of header cells that provide header information for the current data cell" but you can specify @headers on th too.
  110. # [22:58] <anne> http://intertwingly.net/blog/2004/07/31/URI-Equivalence
  111. # [22:58] <jgraham> HTML 4 sucks :)
  112. # [22:58] <anne> (for Philip)
  113. # [22:59] <anne> yeah, at least the second algorithm seems to take <th headers=> into account in some way, which is slightly weird, as it suggests it's only invoked in the absence of headers= and scope=, but maybe that remark only applies to the current cell
  114. # [23:00] <anne> it also says that you "MAY" so whatever you implement is conforming :)
  115. # [23:01] <anne> jgraham, my suggestion would be to stop working on the HTML4 implementation (and leave the code somewhere) and invest your time in making the other algorithms work better (based on actual examples) and doing fun stuff
  116. # [23:02] <gsnedders> anne: how much in the real world web is fun? :P
  117. # [23:02] <anne> "fun stuff" was not necessarily related to the web
  118. # [23:03] <jgraham> anne: I basically agree. If people point out things that are really bugs in the HTML 4 algorithm then I'll fix them but I'm not interested in long debates about what HTML4 would have said if it had any real conformance criteria
  119. # [23:05] * Philip wonders what text editor can open a 6MB single-line XML file without freezing for ten seconds while trying to syntax-highlight it
  120. # [23:06] <anne> prolly one that doesn't try to hilite everything at once
  121. # [23:08] <gsnedders> Philip: nano? :P
  122. # [23:09] <Philip> nano is fast enough but it displays everything on a single line which makes it rather awkward to read the context when searching for patterns :-(
  123. # [23:09] <gsnedders> it shouldn't display everything on one line…
  124. # [23:12] <Philip> Maybe it shouldn't, but it does :-p
  125. # [23:12] <gsnedders> Philip: it's possible to change the line seperator somehow
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  127. # [23:40] * anne hopes comments from MS will get in this week
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  130. # [23:59] * gsnedders hopes remaining comments from himself will get in this month (though with my lack of time, that seems somewhat unlikely)
  131. # Session Close: Mon Sep 10 00:00:00 2007

The end :)