/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-09-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:02] <emeriste> I know this is a group of good people and I respect everyone here and all of their valuable and generous efforts.
  4. # [00:02] <Philip> emeriste: It seems the only particular problem with papyrus was that paper was cheaper
  5. # [00:02] <Philip> so I'm not quite sure how the analogy applies here
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  7. # [00:07] * anne -> bed
  8. # [00:10] <emeriste> Philip -- I have in mind the difference between having monks with an esoteric skill set write out everything by hand, compared with some process that anyone can do.
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  16. # [01:22] <Philip> http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/tests/tests/results.html - noooo! Opera still wins :-(
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  20. # [02:25] <mjs> Safari 3 beta and Firefox 3 alpha both seem pretty close
  21. # [02:27] <mjs> I think Safari is not doing so bad considering that image data and some of the other newer features are completely unimplemented
  22. # [02:30] <Philip> It would be really nice if Safari did implement some of the newer features, so I could use getPixelData to determine pass/fail automatically instead of having to press the 'y'/'n' keys four hundred times :-p
  23. # [02:31] <Philip> But apart from that, all the implementations except ExplorerCanvas seem to be doing alright so far, so maybe there will actually be interoperable implementations in a few years :-)
  24. # [02:32] <mjs> I'd like to implement it, but one problem is that getPixelData doesn't support scaling the UI resolution
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  26. # [03:20] <Ryan> Just out of curiosity who here work for Microsoft?
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  30. # [05:19] <deltab> Philip: what about Watir or the like? something that can control the browser and take screenshots
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  77. # [16:49] <anne> mjs, maybe it's better to point out that adding elements to <head> is not really possible in text/html?
  78. # [16:52] <mjs> anne: depends on what you mean by "not really possible"
  79. # [16:52] <mjs> HTML5 does add some new elements that are allowed in <head>
  80. # [16:52] <mjs> but you can't actually use them in <head> if you want to target HTML4 UAs as well
  81. # [16:52] <anne> well yes, empty elements
  82. # [16:52] <mjs> but using them outside <head> will generally work fine
  83. # [16:52] <zcorpan_> should degrade ok so long as they're empty or have an (r)cdata content model that can use the escaped text span hack
  84. # [16:52] <mjs> HTML5 adds at least one non-empty metadata element
  85. # [16:52] <anne> oh
  86. # [16:53] * anne only remembers <command> and <event-source>
  87. # [16:53] <mjs> do you guys think WebKit should change to treat unknown elements in head as void elements?
  88. # [16:53] <zcorpan_> no
  89. # [16:54] <anne> that would make introducing new elements like <section> more complicated as you would have to write <body> before it for compat reasons
  90. # [16:54] <anne> (assuming we have actual HTML5 UAs)
  91. # [16:56] <zcorpan_> it's more likely that new body elements will be introduced in the future than new head elements, and having unknown new head elements imply <body> isn't so bad
  92. # [16:57] <mjs> ok then
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  96. # [17:23] <zcorpan_> mjs: that metadata element would be <noscript>, right?
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  99. # [17:28] <mjs> zcorpan_: the one I had in mind is datatemplate
  100. # [17:29] <zcorpan_> mjs: aha
  101. # [17:30] * anne wonders what Hixie is up to; no edits for a whole week! :)
  102. # [17:31] <zcorpan_> what is the degradation plan for "<head><datatemplate><rule>anything"?
  103. # [17:31] <mjs> I think you have to not put datatemplate in the head if you want it to degrade
  104. # [17:31] <anne> I believe <datetemplate> is one of the features that won't degrade well
  105. # [17:32] <mjs> I guess in actuality it won't degrade very well no matter what you do
  106. # [17:32] <zcorpan_> right
  107. # [17:32] <zcorpan_> so it breaks equally bad in both head and body, so it could well be allowed in head also :)
  108. # [17:34] <anne> I don't like how RB gets an idea and then leaves it up to us proving it's wrong instead of him doing some homework. Maybe that is not quite an accurate characterization, but something like that is happening and it seems like it wastes a lot of time...
  109. # [17:36] <hsivonen> FWIW, I did quite a bit of homework before sending the alleged flamebait. And I don't intend to follow up without doing some more homework.
  110. # [17:42] <mjs> anne, besides that phenomenon he seems to get fixated on bad ideas and changes the grounds of debate midstream to try to make it look like he has a valid point
  111. # [17:46] <mjs> it is frustrating
  112. # [17:46] <mjs> I should reply to him less
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  132. # [21:36] <anne> Philip, I messaged you some stuff regarding philip.html5.org, let me know if you didn't get it
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  146. # Session Close: Tue Sep 18 00:00:00 2007

The end :)