/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-10-02 / end

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  84. # [13:49] <zcorpan_> aha. now we're getting somewhere
  85. # [13:49] <zcorpan_> found an msaa debugging tool
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  92. # [14:01] <zcorpan_> though it doesn't say e.g. whether a checkbox is checked or not. just that it has focus and is focusable
  93. # [14:02] <zcorpan_> but i guess it's enough to be able to write testcases for role="" at least
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  122. # [17:19] <Steve_f> aaronlev: hi, do you know if the new jaws 9.0 beta has any improvements in ARIA support?
  123. # [17:24] <Steve_f> zcorpan: have you tried inspect32.exe for MSAA?
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  125. # [17:25] <zcorpan_> Steve_f: yes, today actually
  126. # [17:26] <aaronlev> Steve_f: i'm under nda, but you can't read that as meaning anything
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  128. # [17:29] <Steve_f> ok thanks, there was a rumor that JAWS 9 was going to provide better AJAX support, but form initial testing there appears to be only minor improvements in dynamic content updates
  129. # [17:30] <Steve_f> zcorpan: saw this from earlier "though it doesn't say e.g. whether a checkbox is checked or not", inspect32 provides state info as well
  130. # [17:34] <Steve_f> if checked -" State: focused,checked,focusable", if unchecked "State: focused,focusable"
  131. # [17:34] <anne> can you automate testing in any way?
  132. # [17:36] <Steve_f> there are a few tools provided by microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=3755582A-A707-460A-BF21-1373316E13F0&displaylang=en
  133. # [17:37] <anne> maybe if those debug tools have some API you can write a simple script to run it through a testsuite
  134. # [17:37] <anne> hmm
  135. # [17:38] <Steve_f> also RAVEN may be of use http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/raven
  136. # [17:44] <aaronlev> you guys need testing tools for MSAA or IA2?
  137. # [17:45] <anne> some way to test whether browsers implement the new aria proposal correctly
  138. # [17:45] <anne> ideally it can be automated so large series of tests don't take a lot of time
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  140. # [17:53] <zcorpan_> Steve_f: oh, i didn't get "checked" for a regular checked checkbox in firefox
  141. # [17:53] <aaronlev> anne: i have an interest in that as well
  142. # [17:53] <zcorpan_> unless i made a mistake somewhere, i'll look again
  143. # [17:53] <aaronlev> we should coordinate on that
  144. # [17:55] <Steve_f> latest version of adesigner http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/adesigner has accessibility information (MSAA/IA2) inspection functions. (it is pretty cool)
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  146. # [17:57] <Steve_f> zcorpan: just checked worked for me
  147. # [17:57] <zcorpan_> Steve_f: oh now i see checked, it just didn't update until i moved focus back and forth
  148. # [17:58] <zcorpan_> Steve_f: thanks
  149. # [18:05] <aaronlev> zcorpan_: yep, this whole discussion got the xhtml2 political thing started up again
  150. # [18:06] <aaronlev> gotta love it
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  153. # [18:10] <zcorpan_> aaronlev: yeah
  154. # [18:12] <zcorpan_> the only remark from the xhtml2 wg was that they owned the namespace. no other comments on the proposal or otherwise
  155. # [18:12] <zcorpan_> (unless i missed where some other message came from)
  156. # [18:13] <zcorpan_> i find it a bit amusing
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  158. # [18:13] <aaronlev> well we need to finally kill that issue
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  160. # [18:13] <anne> shane didn't know about the XHTML namespace document change btw
  161. # [18:13] <aaronlev> now that the pot is stirred up again
  162. # [18:13] <aaronlev> drive it home
  163. # [18:14] <aaronlev> sorry, too many idioms :)
  164. # [18:14] <anne> i agree that would be nice, but that would require some action from higher up
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  166. # [18:14] <anne> i haven't seen too much of that so far
  167. # [18:15] <zcorpan_> i honestly don't really care
  168. # [18:15] <anne> it would just clear up some mess and make things for more clear for people not directly involved
  169. # [18:16] <anne> it indeed doesn't really matter
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  176. # [19:01] <zcorpan_> Steve_f: is there something useful in aDesigner that isn't in inspect32.exe (for my purposes)?
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  180. # [19:09] <Steve_f> yesi think, you can view the elements in a html document as a tree and see the role/states etc
  181. # [19:12] <zcorpan_> ah, that's nice
  182. # [19:14] <Steve_f> zcorpan: whats your email, i can send you a screen shot if you want?
  183. # [19:16] <zcorpan_> it's simonp@opera.com
  184. # [19:16] <Steve_f> ok will send it
  185. # [19:17] <zcorpan_> Steve_f: thanks
  186. # [19:22] <Steve_f> zcorpan: sent
  187. # [19:24] <zcorpan_> Steve_f: looks nice. trying to download the app now
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  189. # [19:28] <Steve_f> good luck
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  192. # [19:39] <zcorpan_> well, i'm not having much luck downloading the thing.
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  199. # [20:27] <Hixie> i hope everyone who is going to the f2f has booked their room
  200. # [20:27] <Hixie> deadline is tomorrow
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  202. # [20:30] <anne> i got about five e-mails about that :)
  203. # [20:35] <Lionheart> Thanks for the warning.
  204. # [20:41] <hober> If I go, I'll crash at my folks' place. :)
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  207. # [20:44] <Lionheart> Lucky you
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  221. # [22:54] <gsnedders> If I could get somewhere to stay, I'd go.
  222. # [22:55] * anne e-mails charter proposal for Forms TF
  223. # [22:55] <anne> gsnedders, maybe someone can share a room with you?
  224. # [22:55] <Hixie> ooo, movement
  225. # [22:55] <anne> heh
  226. # [22:56] <gsnedders> anne: that's just about the only option… and try to get my mother to agree to that (i.e., it is almost impossible)
  227. # [22:56] <Hixie> heh
  228. # [22:56] <gsnedders> My Dad cares so much less
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  231. # [22:57] <anne> hmm, it's inlined on the mailing list
  232. # [22:57] * anne blames Opera Mail
  233. # [22:58] <gsnedders> to quote what I wrote in an essay earlier: "Je pense qu'elle est trop protectrice. Mon père n'est jamais inquiet de moi".
  234. # [22:59] <gsnedders> anne: and then there's the issue of finding someone silly enough to share a room with me :)
  235. # [23:00] <anne> I found a person silly enough to share one with me :p
  236. # [23:00] <gsnedders> (I legally can't stay on in a room on my own, FWIW)
  237. # [23:01] <anne> Hmm, being under 21 has never been a real issue for me in the US
  238. # [23:01] <gsnedders> anne: being under 18 has for me
  239. # [23:01] <anne> well, with the exception of consuming alcohol in certain places
  240. # [23:01] <anne> gsnedders, ah ok
  241. # [23:01] <gsnedders> anne: remember I'm idiotically young :)
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  244. # [23:03] <wilhelm> What's on the agenda for the WG meeting?
  245. # [23:03] <Hixie> the plan is mostly to have it be an unconference
  246. # [23:03] <Hixie> so the agenda is "whatever you want to talk about"
  247. # [23:04] <Hixie> basically
  248. # [23:04] * wilhelm nods.
  249. # [23:04] <gsnedders> ah well, see y'all on Thursday (I'm away tomorrow at a Rush concert)
  250. # [23:05] <Hixie> later
  251. # [23:16] <hsivonen> the U.S. seriously overdoes the 21 thing. When I was 18 they wouldn't let me even taste (and spit) wine. When I was 24, I had to show my passport in order to stand in a room where alcohol was served even though I wasn't drinking.
  252. # [23:18] * Quits: mjs_ (mjs@17.255.96.78) (Quit: mjs_)
  253. # [23:19] <Hixie> yes, it screws me over regularly, because i never have any ID on me
  254. # [23:19] <Hixie> so if my friends happen to walk into a bar, i get left at the door
  255. # [23:19] <Hixie> even though i have no intention of drinking a single drop that they sell
  256. # [23:19] <Hixie> whether alcoholic, carbonated, caffeinated, or corn-syrupated.
  257. # [23:20] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.255.96.78)
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  259. # [23:56] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.72)
  260. # Session Close: Wed Oct 03 00:00:00 2007

The end :)