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- # Session Start: Thu Oct 04 00:00:00 2007
- # Session Ident: #html-wg
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- # [02:16] <karl> Authors stylesheet…
- # [02:16] <karl> <link rel="stylesheet template" href="/style/authoring.css" type="text/css" /> that would be used by an authoring tool to give colours to sections for editing, but would be ignored by the browser in a browsing context.
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- # [02:17] <karl> just thinking
- # [02:17] <karl> I see some issues
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- # [12:11] * Topic is 'HTML WG http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ also logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
- # [12:11] * Set by DanC on Thu Sep 06 23:39:27
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- # [18:01] <zcorpan_> aaronlev: hi
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- # [18:37] * zcorpan_ updated http://simon.html5.org/specs/aria-proposal with the new svg proposal
- # [18:38] <zcorpan_> removed html:role, added <svg:* role="" aria-foo="">. removed some notes
- # [18:41] <zcorpan_> now i need to update the test cases...
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- # [18:59] <zcorpan_> updated the test cases at http://simon.html5.org/test/aria/role/
- # [19:00] <zcorpan_> ...and http://simon.html5.org/test/aria/states/
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- # [19:12] <aaronlev> zcorpan_: why would svg need aria- for aria?
- # [19:13] <aaronlev> when it has namespaces?
- # [19:13] <aaronlev> are we proposing only supporting aria- and not aaa: ?
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- # [19:14] <anne> yeah
- # [19:15] <Chris> yeah.
- # [19:15] <aaronlev> so we're trying to kill the need for namespaces in aria at all
- # [19:15] <anne> yes
- # [19:15] <aaronlev> fine, but, doesn't that need to be in the svg spec?
- # [19:16] <anne> it's a standalone proposal
- # [19:16] <Chris> I still hold to my moderate-strength objection - it seems goofy to prefix one attribute with aria- and not another, and it seems like that limits the applicability (because the language can't use "role" then).
- # [19:16] <anne> Chris, my argument about that before was that role= denotes the widget where aria-* denotes the state
- # [19:17] <anne> but I don't really care
- # [19:17] <aaronlev> i don't care that much but time is short for me on this release
- # [19:17] <zcorpan_> aaronlev: just as much as it needs to be in the html spec
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- # [19:17] <aaronlev> i think i need to see that the svg group is on board with it before i code it up, but it's cool with me
- # [19:18] <zcorpan_> the proposal came from the svg group unless i'm mistaken
- # [19:18] <aaronlev> k
- # [19:18] <aaronlev> i need to go for a minute
- # [19:18] <aaronlev> but i'll catch up on it later
- # [19:18] <zcorpan_> ok
- # [19:18] <hsivonen> zcorpan_: is the proposal coming from there a matter of public record somewhere?
- # [19:19] <anne> there's some discussion on www-svg
- # [19:20] <zcorpan_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2007Oct/0013.html
- # [19:21] <hsivonen> so is the time ripe for tackling xlink:href? ;-)
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- # [19:22] <zcorpan_> if they prefer role="" over html:role="" ... :)
- # [19:22] <anne> it has to happen at some point
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- # [19:23] <zcorpan_> though xlink:href is interoperable in svg... no?
- # [19:23] <anne> yeah
- # [19:23] <zcorpan_> but i guess UAs can support both href and xlink:href for some time
- # [19:24] <anne> I would imagine a solution where you can specify both href="" and xlink:href="" where the latter would take precedence
- # [19:24] <hsivonen> IIRC back in April, xlink:href didn't quite work in WebKit
- # [19:24] <anne> that is, if backwards compat is desired, otherwise href= would prolly take precedence
- # [19:25] <anne> hmm, TAG discussed how people should write HTML
- # [19:25] <hsivonen> zcorpan_: the CC badge in http://hsivonen.iki.fi/thesis/html5-conformance-checker.xhtml is not clickable in WebKit
- # [19:26] <zcorpan_> hsivonen: ok
- # [19:27] <hsivonen> anne: TagSoupIntegration-54?
- # [19:27] <anne> yeah
- # [19:27] <anne> it's not really clear to me what they're doing though, but I suppose it has some purpose
- # [19:28] <hsivonen> eek. XSD mentioned
- # [19:28] <anne> for instance
- # [19:29] <zcorpan_> pointer?
- # [19:30] <anne> www-tag "minutes"
- # [19:30] <anne> see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Oct/0023.html
- # [19:30] <zcorpan_> just found it
- # [19:31] <hsivonen> what Raman says about scripting and well-defined has been fixed as of HTML5 hasn't it?
- # [19:31] <anne> yeah
- # [19:31] <anne> maybe he means it's ugly
- # [19:31] <hsivonen> it can be ugly but well-defined
- # [19:32] <Chris> (sorry in a meeting) - I just meant if we have an un-prefixed attribute directly in HTML5, then we own the semantics of that attribute - so ARIA can't change it later, and we might add things to it for other HTML uses.
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- # [19:33] <anne> Chris, yeah, I suppose that's true, although in practice I would expect the WG to evaluate such additions based on existing content and implementations
- # [19:34] <anne> Chris, any updates on the review btw?
- # [19:34] <anne> (of HTML5)
- # [19:34] <Chris> not yet. Sorry. I've asked my management for more support.
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- # [20:09] <anne> lol @ schepers
- # [20:10] <schepers> why does everyone laugh at me?
- # [20:11] <zcorpan_> hi schepers
- # [20:11] <schepers> hi, Simon
- # [20:12] <zcorpan_> schepers: the plan is to have the proposal implemented in firefox 3 and opera 9.5
- # [20:13] <schepers> reading backroll
- # [20:14] <schepers> ok, sounds interesting, I'll get it discussed next tuesday in SVG
- # [20:15] <zcorpan_> ok, great
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- # [20:15] <schepers> it would help if we knew how this relates to the XHTML2 Role spec
- # [20:15] <zcorpan_> i don't understand that spec
- # [20:16] <zcorpan_> so i don't really know
- # [20:16] <schepers> have you talked with the editors?
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- # [20:16] <schepers> you've at least communicated with Richard Schwerdtfeger, it seems
- # [20:17] <zcorpan_> yeah
- # [20:17] <zcorpan_> i've sent comments about it, or perhaps that was to wai-xtech
- # [20:18] <schepers> it would be courteous to give them a heads-up
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- # [20:18] <schepers> hi, dbaron
- # [20:18] <zcorpan_> yes, the xhtml2 wg was cc-ed
- # [20:19] <schepers> zcorpan_, and it would make it much easier to sell in SVG if they approved
- # [20:19] <zcorpan_> schepers: we asked for comments, but haven't got any from the xhtml2 wg
- # [20:20] <schepers> well, except richard s. it seems
- # [20:20] <zcorpan_> it seems they discussed it at their last telecon but i couldn't extract any actual feedback from the minutes
- # [20:20] <zcorpan_> oh yep
- # [20:20] <schepers> boy, I hope he has a good irc nick...
- # [20:20] <schepers> I thought schepers was unweildy...
- # [20:21] * schepers is now known as shepazu
- # [20:23] <anne> shepazu, because you made a silly remark, imo
- # [20:24] <shepazu> which of many possible silly remarks was that?
- # [20:24] <anne> good obversation :) ; your last e-mail to www-svg
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- # [20:25] <shepazu> re: navigation?
- # [20:25] <shepazu> you don't like the idea of shared focus navigation between languages?
- # [20:26] <shepazu> now, that seems silly
- # [20:26] <shepazu> how can I convince you not to break the web?
- # [20:26] <shepazu> think of the children, anne!
- # [20:26] * shepazu goes into submarine mode, working on action items
- # [20:27] <shepazu> zcorpan_, I've emailed the XHTML2 guys, hope we can all come together on this
- # [20:28] <zcorpan_> shepazu: ok, i hope so too
- # [20:28] <shepazu> I'd love to see it solved and implemented quickly and easily
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- # [21:29] <anne> shepazu, the idea that HTML WG should somehow base it on newer builds that didn't consider legacy seems wrong
- # [21:29] <anne> s/ WG//
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- # [21:29] <anne> s/builds/models/
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- # [21:30] <shepazu> it doesn't seem like focus navigation was consistently implemented well before anyway
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- # [21:31] <shepazu> and certainly not in a way that was easy to author, and which takes into account the positioning of focusable elements in anything other than document order
- # [21:35] <shepazu> zcorpan_, I see that SVG was mentioned in your @role document before... it would be very helpful to let the SVG WG know of any work that's being done in the HTML WG that impacts (or especially directly mentions) SVG
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- # [21:37] <shepazu> anne, and why do you think that the way navigation is specified *doesn't* take legacy into account?
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- # Session Close: Fri Oct 05 00:00:00 2007
The end :)