/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-10-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 04 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  13. # [02:16] <karl> Authors stylesheet…
  14. # [02:16] <karl> <link rel="stylesheet template" href="/style/authoring.css" type="text/css" /> that would be used by an authoring tool to give colours to sections for editing, but would be ignored by the browser in a browsing context.
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  16. # [02:17] <karl> just thinking
  17. # [02:17] <karl> I see some issues
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  68. # [12:11] * Topic is 'HTML WG http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ also logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
  69. # [12:11] * Set by DanC on Thu Sep 06 23:39:27
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  130. # [18:01] <zcorpan_> aaronlev: hi
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  135. # [18:37] * zcorpan_ updated http://simon.html5.org/specs/aria-proposal with the new svg proposal
  136. # [18:38] <zcorpan_> removed html:role, added <svg:* role="" aria-foo="">. removed some notes
  137. # [18:41] <zcorpan_> now i need to update the test cases...
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  139. # [18:59] <zcorpan_> updated the test cases at http://simon.html5.org/test/aria/role/
  140. # [19:00] <zcorpan_> ...and http://simon.html5.org/test/aria/states/
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  143. # [19:12] <aaronlev> zcorpan_: why would svg need aria- for aria?
  144. # [19:13] <aaronlev> when it has namespaces?
  145. # [19:13] <aaronlev> are we proposing only supporting aria- and not aaa: ?
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  147. # [19:14] <anne> yeah
  148. # [19:15] <Chris> yeah.
  149. # [19:15] <aaronlev> so we're trying to kill the need for namespaces in aria at all
  150. # [19:15] <anne> yes
  151. # [19:15] <aaronlev> fine, but, doesn't that need to be in the svg spec?
  152. # [19:16] <anne> it's a standalone proposal
  153. # [19:16] <Chris> I still hold to my moderate-strength objection - it seems goofy to prefix one attribute with aria- and not another, and it seems like that limits the applicability (because the language can't use "role" then).
  154. # [19:16] <anne> Chris, my argument about that before was that role= denotes the widget where aria-* denotes the state
  155. # [19:17] <anne> but I don't really care
  156. # [19:17] <aaronlev> i don't care that much but time is short for me on this release
  157. # [19:17] <zcorpan_> aaronlev: just as much as it needs to be in the html spec
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  159. # [19:17] <aaronlev> i think i need to see that the svg group is on board with it before i code it up, but it's cool with me
  160. # [19:18] <zcorpan_> the proposal came from the svg group unless i'm mistaken
  161. # [19:18] <aaronlev> k
  162. # [19:18] <aaronlev> i need to go for a minute
  163. # [19:18] <aaronlev> but i'll catch up on it later
  164. # [19:18] <zcorpan_> ok
  165. # [19:18] <hsivonen> zcorpan_: is the proposal coming from there a matter of public record somewhere?
  166. # [19:19] <anne> there's some discussion on www-svg
  167. # [19:20] <zcorpan_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2007Oct/0013.html
  168. # [19:21] <hsivonen> so is the time ripe for tackling xlink:href? ;-)
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  170. # [19:22] <zcorpan_> if they prefer role="" over html:role="" ... :)
  171. # [19:22] <anne> it has to happen at some point
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  173. # [19:23] <zcorpan_> though xlink:href is interoperable in svg... no?
  174. # [19:23] <anne> yeah
  175. # [19:23] <zcorpan_> but i guess UAs can support both href and xlink:href for some time
  176. # [19:24] <anne> I would imagine a solution where you can specify both href="" and xlink:href="" where the latter would take precedence
  177. # [19:24] <hsivonen> IIRC back in April, xlink:href didn't quite work in WebKit
  178. # [19:24] <anne> that is, if backwards compat is desired, otherwise href= would prolly take precedence
  179. # [19:25] <anne> hmm, TAG discussed how people should write HTML
  180. # [19:25] <hsivonen> zcorpan_: the CC badge in http://hsivonen.iki.fi/thesis/html5-conformance-checker.xhtml is not clickable in WebKit
  181. # [19:26] <zcorpan_> hsivonen: ok
  182. # [19:27] <hsivonen> anne: TagSoupIntegration-54?
  183. # [19:27] <anne> yeah
  184. # [19:27] <anne> it's not really clear to me what they're doing though, but I suppose it has some purpose
  185. # [19:28] <hsivonen> eek. XSD mentioned
  186. # [19:28] <anne> for instance
  187. # [19:29] <zcorpan_> pointer?
  188. # [19:30] <anne> www-tag "minutes"
  189. # [19:30] <anne> see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2007Oct/0023.html
  190. # [19:30] <zcorpan_> just found it
  191. # [19:31] <hsivonen> what Raman says about scripting and well-defined has been fixed as of HTML5 hasn't it?
  192. # [19:31] <anne> yeah
  193. # [19:31] <anne> maybe he means it's ugly
  194. # [19:31] <hsivonen> it can be ugly but well-defined
  195. # [19:32] <Chris> (sorry in a meeting) - I just meant if we have an un-prefixed attribute directly in HTML5, then we own the semantics of that attribute - so ARIA can't change it later, and we might add things to it for other HTML uses.
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  197. # [19:33] <anne> Chris, yeah, I suppose that's true, although in practice I would expect the WG to evaluate such additions based on existing content and implementations
  198. # [19:34] <anne> Chris, any updates on the review btw?
  199. # [19:34] <anne> (of HTML5)
  200. # [19:34] <Chris> not yet. Sorry. I've asked my management for more support.
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  202. # [20:09] <anne> lol @ schepers
  203. # [20:10] <schepers> why does everyone laugh at me?
  204. # [20:11] <zcorpan_> hi schepers
  205. # [20:11] <schepers> hi, Simon
  206. # [20:12] <zcorpan_> schepers: the plan is to have the proposal implemented in firefox 3 and opera 9.5
  207. # [20:13] <schepers> reading backroll
  208. # [20:14] <schepers> ok, sounds interesting, I'll get it discussed next tuesday in SVG
  209. # [20:15] <zcorpan_> ok, great
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  211. # [20:15] <schepers> it would help if we knew how this relates to the XHTML2 Role spec
  212. # [20:15] <zcorpan_> i don't understand that spec
  213. # [20:16] <zcorpan_> so i don't really know
  214. # [20:16] <schepers> have you talked with the editors?
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  217. # [20:16] <schepers> you've at least communicated with Richard Schwerdtfeger, it seems
  218. # [20:17] <zcorpan_> yeah
  219. # [20:17] <zcorpan_> i've sent comments about it, or perhaps that was to wai-xtech
  220. # [20:18] <schepers> it would be courteous to give them a heads-up
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  222. # [20:18] <schepers> hi, dbaron
  223. # [20:18] <zcorpan_> yes, the xhtml2 wg was cc-ed
  224. # [20:19] <schepers> zcorpan_, and it would make it much easier to sell in SVG if they approved
  225. # [20:19] <zcorpan_> schepers: we asked for comments, but haven't got any from the xhtml2 wg
  226. # [20:20] <schepers> well, except richard s. it seems
  227. # [20:20] <zcorpan_> it seems they discussed it at their last telecon but i couldn't extract any actual feedback from the minutes
  228. # [20:20] <zcorpan_> oh yep
  229. # [20:20] <schepers> boy, I hope he has a good irc nick...
  230. # [20:20] <schepers> I thought schepers was unweildy...
  231. # [20:21] * schepers is now known as shepazu
  232. # [20:23] <anne> shepazu, because you made a silly remark, imo
  233. # [20:24] <shepazu> which of many possible silly remarks was that?
  234. # [20:24] <anne> good obversation :) ; your last e-mail to www-svg
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  237. # [20:25] <shepazu> re: navigation?
  238. # [20:25] <shepazu> you don't like the idea of shared focus navigation between languages?
  239. # [20:26] <shepazu> now, that seems silly
  240. # [20:26] <shepazu> how can I convince you not to break the web?
  241. # [20:26] <shepazu> think of the children, anne!
  242. # [20:26] * shepazu goes into submarine mode, working on action items
  243. # [20:27] <shepazu> zcorpan_, I've emailed the XHTML2 guys, hope we can all come together on this
  244. # [20:28] <zcorpan_> shepazu: ok, i hope so too
  245. # [20:28] <shepazu> I'd love to see it solved and implemented quickly and easily
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  259. # [21:29] <anne> shepazu, the idea that HTML WG should somehow base it on newer builds that didn't consider legacy seems wrong
  260. # [21:29] <anne> s/ WG//
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  262. # [21:29] <anne> s/builds/models/
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  264. # [21:30] <shepazu> it doesn't seem like focus navigation was consistently implemented well before anyway
  265. # [21:30] * Quits: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145) (Quit: mjs)
  266. # [21:31] <shepazu> and certainly not in a way that was easy to author, and which takes into account the positioning of focusable elements in anything other than document order
  267. # [21:35] <shepazu> zcorpan_, I see that SVG was mentioned in your @role document before... it would be very helpful to let the SVG WG know of any work that's being done in the HTML WG that impacts (or especially directly mentions) SVG
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  271. # [21:37] <shepazu> anne, and why do you think that the way navigation is specified *doesn't* take legacy into account?
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  290. # Session Close: Fri Oct 05 00:00:00 2007

The end :)