Options:
- # Session Start: Wed Oct 17 00:00:00 2007
- # Session Ident: #html-wg
- # [00:02] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@209.6.168.245) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 3.0a9pre/2007101204])
- # [00:02] * Joins: jmb (jmb@152.78.68.189)
- # [00:15] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.34.9) (Ping timeout)
- # [00:22] * Quits: Thezilch (fuz007@68.52.119.203) (Ping timeout)
- # [00:36] * Quits: jgraham (jgraham@81.86.211.8) (Ping timeout)
- # [00:38] * Quits: tH (Rob@87.102.2.152) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508])
- # [00:39] * Joins: jgraham (jgraham@81.86.210.220)
- # [00:44] * Quits: hober (ted@68.107.112.172) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs))
- # [00:50] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.34.9)
- # [00:50] <zcorpan> anne: why is the <title> of this post just "An HTML5-style "? http://annevankesteren.nl/2007/10/html5-datalist
- # [00:50] <anne> beats me
- # [00:50] <anne> well, I've some idea
- # [00:51] <anne> yeah, it's my publishing system
- # [00:52] <anne> it doesn't escape " so when I edit a post and don't fix the title it will change
- # [00:52] <anne> i wrote this publishing system planning to make something better in due course
- # [00:52] <anne> due course never happened
- # [00:58] <zcorpan> there has been less noise about that article than i had expected
- # [00:58] <zcorpan> perhaps google suggest isn't very cool nowadays
- # [00:58] <anne> yeah, I guess
- # [00:59] <anne> maybe it's too technical
- # [01:01] <zcorpan> dunno. it didn't seem to result in any flamewars like the previous article, which is probably a good thing
- # [01:02] <anne> yup, I seem to remember that article got popular some time after it was published btw, so maybe it's yet to come
- # [01:02] <anne> or maybe people have enough of HTML 5 news for the next year
- # [01:02] <zcorpan> :)
- # [01:02] <anne> it's just a bunch of strings after all
- # [01:02] * Joins: DougJ (djones4@74.76.28.112)
- # [01:03] <zcorpan> designMode is fun btw
- # [01:03] <zcorpan> i didn't know ie supported it
- # [01:04] <zcorpan> (not for top-level browsing contexts, though)
- # [01:04] <anne> i never got it working in IE so I played with contenteditable instead
- # [01:04] <anne> (I did try it in <iframe> fwiw)
- # [01:04] <zcorpan> enabling it from the outer document?
- # [01:05] <zcorpan> wfm with the designMode Viewer
- # [01:06] <zcorpan> <input type=checkbox onclick="window[0].document.designMode = checked ? 'on' : 'off'; update()">
- # [01:06] <anne> k, maybe I used iframe.contentDocument or something which doesn't work in IE iirc
- # [01:07] <anne> (but didn't realize that it doesn't work, etc.)
- # [01:07] * Quits: kingryan (rking3@208.66.64.47) (Quit: kingryan)
- # [01:09] * Joins: kingryan (rking3@208.66.64.47)
- # [01:09] * Quits: kingryan (rking3@208.66.64.47) (Quit: kingryan)
- # [01:09] <zcorpan> though i get a js error in ie when i enable or disable js, dunno what it's about... works nonetheness
- # [01:11] * anne -> bed
- # [01:14] * Joins: sbuluf (xdjyn@200.49.140.184)
- # [01:15] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.34.9) (Ping timeout)
- # [01:16] * Joins: hober (ted@68.107.112.172)
- # [01:17] * Quits: sbuluf (xdjyn@200.49.140.184) (Ping timeout)
- # [01:18] * Quits: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.156) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [01:52] * Joins: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30)
- # [01:54] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241) (Quit: moving computers around)
- # [01:58] * Joins: karl (karlcow@128.30.52.30)
- # [02:00] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
- # [02:19] * Joins: Thezilch (fuz007@68.52.119.203)
- # [02:51] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241)
- # [02:54] * Parts: DougJ (djones4@74.76.28.112)
- # [03:06] * Joins: mjs_ (mjs@17.203.15.146)
- # [03:06] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.203.15.146) (Ping timeout)
- # [04:10] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [04:12] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
- # [04:15] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [04:16] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
- # [04:17] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
- # [04:54] * Quits: mjs_ (mjs@17.203.15.146) (Quit: mjs_)
- # [05:00] * Quits: aroben (adamroben@17.203.14.144) (Quit: aroben)
- # [05:21] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachy@213.236.208.22)
- # [05:21] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [05:38] * Joins: kingryan (rking3@64.81.240.149)
- # [05:43] * Joins: sbuluf (qkbrsu@200.49.140.156)
- # [05:46] * Quits: sbuluf (qkbrsu@200.49.140.156) (Ping timeout)
- # [05:47] * Joins: sbuluf (vjh@200.49.140.237)
- # [05:48] * Quits: sbuluf (vjh@200.49.140.237) (Quit: sbuluf)
- # [05:48] * Joins: marcos_ (chatzilla@131.181.148.226)
- # [06:06] * Joins: aroben (adamroben@67.160.250.192)
- # [06:17] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [06:22] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [06:23] * Quits: polin8 (polin8@75.71.72.175) (Quit: polin8)
- # [06:48] * Quits: aroben (adamroben@67.160.250.192) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [06:48] * Joins: aroben_ (adamroben@67.160.250.192)
- # [06:59] * Joins: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145)
- # [07:07] * Quits: kingryan (rking3@64.81.240.149) (Quit: kingryan)
- # [07:08] * Quits: aroben_ (adamroben@67.160.250.192) (Client exited)
- # [07:09] * Joins: aroben (adamroben@67.160.250.192)
- # [07:14] * Joins: polin8 (polin8@75.71.72.175)
- # [07:20] * Quits: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145) (Quit: mjs)
- # [07:20] * Joins: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145)
- # [07:39] * Quits: polin8 (polin8@75.71.72.175) (Quit: polin8)
- # [08:13] * Quits: hober (ted@68.107.112.172) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs))
- # [08:16] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
- # [08:16] * Joins: karl (karlcow@128.30.52.30)
- # [08:25] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [08:30] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [09:03] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
- # [09:05] * Quits: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145) (Client exited)
- # [09:07] * Joins: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145)
- # [09:09] * Quits: paullewis (paullewis@82.242.109.217) (Quit: paullewis)
- # [09:16] * Joins: Lionhear1 (robin@66.57.69.65)
- # [09:17] * Quits: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65) (Ping timeout)
- # [09:25] * Joins: tH_ (Rob@87.102.2.152)
- # [09:26] * tH_ is now known as tH
- # [09:33] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.52.30) (Quit: Where dwelt Ymir, or wherein did he find sustenance?)
- # [09:35] * Quits: aroben (adamroben@67.160.250.192) (Client exited)
- # [09:35] * Joins: aroben (adamroben@67.160.250.192)
- # [09:44] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
- # [09:46] * Joins: paullewis (paullewis@81.255.115.137)
- # [10:18] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
- # [10:20] * Quits: aroben (adamroben@67.160.250.192) (Quit: aroben)
- # [10:32] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [10:37] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [10:50] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
- # [10:59] * Quits: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [11:16] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
- # [12:39] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [12:44] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [12:47] <anne> http://duryodhan.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/a-little-longer-html5/
- # [13:02] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachy@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [13:06] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22)
- # [13:06] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22) (Connection reset by peer)
- # [13:07] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22)
- # [13:22] * Joins: myakura (myakura@122.29.65.157)
- # [13:50] * Quits: anne (annevk@81.68.67.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [14:05] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Ping timeout)
- # [14:06] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
- # [14:08] * Quits: marcos (chatzilla@124.171.166.8) (Client exited)
- # [14:13] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Ping timeout)
- # [14:13] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
- # [14:44] * Joins: anne (annevk@86.90.70.28)
- # [14:46] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [14:51] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [14:51] * Joins: polin8 (polin8@75.71.72.175)
- # [14:54] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Ping timeout)
- # [14:57] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
- # [15:09] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
- # [15:22] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@66.31.86.217)
- # [15:34] * Quits: Lionhear1 (robin@66.57.69.65) (Ping timeout)
- # [15:57] * Joins: matt (matt@128.30.52.30)
- # [16:06] * Quits: matt (matt@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
- # [16:07] * Joins: matt (matt@128.30.52.30)
- # [16:21] * Quits: myakura (myakura@122.29.65.157) (Ping timeout)
- # [16:37] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Ping timeout)
- # [16:44] * Joins: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.156)
- # [16:53] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [16:58] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [17:06] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
- # [17:07] * zcorpan updates his spec to use aria_foo instead of aria-foo
- # [17:07] * anne cries
- # [17:08] * shepazu wonders why anne would care?
- # [17:17] <zcorpan> hmm, i should probably also make aria_foo allowed on svg elements and remove aaa:foo
- # [17:21] <zcorpan> if we remove aaa:foo, then we won't have compat with firefox 2 anyway, and therefore we could also remove the "wairole:" prefix...
- # [17:22] <anne> I guess, just need to tell the people who're deploying content and get Firefox 3 / Opera 9.5 aligned
- # [17:25] * aaronlev looks for a way to use dynamic attribute selectors in IE
- # [17:27] <zcorpan> aaronlev: i think it should be possible to force a reflow
- # [17:27] <aaronlev> interesting
- # [17:28] <hsivonen> shepazu: would the SVG WG be able to introduce role in SVG 1.2 Full and move it to Tiny in 1.3?
- # [17:29] <shepazu> hsivonen: I don't see why not
- # [17:29] <aaronlev> yes! that worked
- # [17:29] <shepazu> aaronlev: cool
- # [17:29] <aaronlev> foo.className += ' ';
- # [17:29] <shepazu> huh
- # [17:29] <shepazu> excellent
- # [17:29] <aaronlev> after setting the attribute
- # [17:30] <aaronlev> ooh, don't even need to add a space
- # [17:30] <aaronlev> just the empty string
- # [17:32] <anne> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Bindings/
- # [17:33] <anne> oh, IBM had a Dutch number!
- # [17:33] <anne> oh well
- # [17:35] <zcorpan> aaronlev: btw, the examples in the aria spec that try to use attribute selectors say [foo:bar], which is not a valid selector because colon has special meaning in selectors (for pseudo-classes and pseudo-elements). it should be [foo\:bar].
- # [17:35] <zcorpan> aaronlev: but ie doesn't support it anyway
- # [17:35] <aaronlev> zcorpan: right the aria spec is littered with bad examples and i've told them that
- # [17:35] <aaronlev> if you tell them too they'll maybe listen
- # [17:36] <aaronlev> my exampoles use foo|bar, and define the namespace in CSS
- # [17:38] <hsivonen> earlier this year, I couldn't get namespaces in CSS work interoperably across Gecko, WebKit, Opera and Prince, so I gave up and used colonless matching on qnames
- # [17:38] <zcorpan> yeah, although attributes in ie (in text/html) never have a namespace, so [foo\:bar] could be expected to work (but not [foo:bar])...
- # [17:38] <hsivonen> which is, of course, totally from the Namespaces in XML point of view
- # [17:38] <zcorpan> hsivonen: s/qnames/local names/ ?
- # [17:39] <hsivonen> zcorpan: no, prefixless qnames :-)
- # [17:39] <hsivonen> they look like local names :-)
- # [17:39] <zcorpan> hsivonen: ah. although css doesn't do qnames matching
- # [17:40] <zcorpan> it does local name matching
- # [17:40] <hsivonen> oh. sorry
- # [17:40] <hsivonen> local name matching, then
- # [17:40] <hsivonen> I thought CSS had legacy qname matching
- # [17:41] <zcorpan> nope. foo is the same as *|foo and [foo] is the same as [|foo]
- # [17:41] <hsivonen> ok. interesting
- # [17:41] <hsivonen> I had had wrong thoughts on this for years
- # [17:42] <zcorpan> this is a reason why mapping lang to xml:lang in the html parser would break css
- # [17:42] <zcorpan> since [lang] only matches namespaceless lang
- # [17:51] <shepazu> zcorpan: say I have <ns1:foo/><ns2:foo/> and the CSS [ns1|foo]{color:red} [ns2|foo]{color:blue}, what would happen?
- # [17:55] <anne> depends on the namespace declarations in scope
- # [17:56] <anne> note that prefixes in CSS are local to the CSS file and don't relate to the file they're styling
- # [17:56] <shepazu> oh.
- # [17:56] <shepazu> ugly.
- # [17:56] <anne> (this is a good thing as it allows you to write CSS agnostic of the particular formatting of the document)
- # [17:57] <anne> (so a style sheet can be shared with a document that uses <h:html> with h bound to the HTML namespace and a document that uses <html:html> with html to the HTML namespace)
- # [17:57] <shepazu> ah
- # [18:00] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@66.31.86.217) (Ping timeout)
- # [18:10] <zcorpan> ok, allowed aria_foo attributes on svg elements, removed the "wairole:" prefix, and removed the aaa:foo attributes
- # [18:19] * Quits: paullewis (paullewis@81.255.115.137) (Quit: paullewis)
- # [18:23] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
- # [18:28] * Joins: hober (ted@68.107.112.172)
- # [18:48] * Joins: kingryan (rking3@208.66.64.47)
- # [18:54] * Joins: aroben (adamroben@17.203.14.144)
- # [18:59] * Joins: paullewis (paullewis@82.242.109.217)
- # [19:01] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [19:06] * DanC owes a telcon agenda 5 minutes ago...
- # [19:06] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [19:07] <anne> DanC, maybe we can raise the question again whether to publish an HTML 5 draft?
- # [19:09] <anne> s/we/you/ is probably appropriate
- # [19:10] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
- # [19:12] <DanC> before design principles?
- # [19:12] <DanC> and before microsoft's review?
- # [19:13] <kingryan> it's just a draft, no?
- # [19:13] <DanC> yes, it's just a draft
- # [19:13] * DanC juggles timezones a bit...
- # [19:14] <anne> yes
- # [19:14] <DanC> crud; I think I'm 73 minutes, not 13 minutes, overdue
- # [19:15] <anne> I don't think most people care about that, to be honest
- # [19:17] <DanC> no, but if I show up for the telcon at the wrong time, people will care. (well, a few.)
- # [19:18] <DanC> I hope the minutes from last week are wrong and that Chris W reserved 11am Chicago in his calendar
- # [19:19] <DanC> I can re-open the poll about which document to publish 1st.
- # [19:19] <DanC> that's prolly a good idea
- # [19:20] <hober> Could there be a "I don't care which one gets published first, but let's please publish something" option?
- # [19:20] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@66.31.86.217)
- # [19:21] <anne> I dunno, it just seems like we should publish something having been in the running for over half a year. Maybe the HTML 5 draft itself is the least controversial...
- # [19:22] <gsnedders> DanC: I still think we should publish all docs at once
- # [19:23] * gsnedders still feels like saying, "they're only *@£$&@£$ drafts!"
- # [19:24] <anne> and you'd be right
- # [19:24] <DanC> by that argument, yes, and we should have published long ago. But now there are Big Expectations. I suppose I shouldn't let that bother me much.
- # [19:24] <DanC> I'm not the only WG chair, meanwhile.
- # [19:25] <DanC> let alone are we the only WG members ;-) Please do mail public-html about the idea.
- # [19:26] <anne> I suppose I could do that
- # [19:32] <gsnedders> wait… there are more people in this WG? awww… I thought I finally knew everyone's names…
- # [19:34] * DanC checks for progress on design principles... hmm... no new HDP mail
- # [19:40] * Quits: anne (annevk@86.90.70.28) (Ping timeout)
- # [19:42] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241)
- # [19:48] <DanC> anne, you were at the http://www.w3.org/2007/10/17-aria-minutes.html meeting, yes? feel like coming to the HTML WG telcon tomorrow to talk about it?
- # [19:48] <DanC> any idea whether chaals will attend tomorrow?
- # [19:51] * DanC sent an announcement of the meeting time, with a "stay tuned to http://www.w3.org/html/wg/il16 " for the rest
- # [19:56] * DanC checks for news in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms-tf/2007Oct/ ...
- # [20:01] <DanC> anne, if you find time to mail public-html about publishing the HTML 5 spec, I'd appreciate if you could summarize the changes over the past few months
- # [20:01] <DanC> by reference, if you like
- # [20:02] <DanC> scanning public-html subject lines since the last telcon (11 Oct), I don't see too much else that I should look into
- # [20:03] <DanC> hmm... [css-mobile] "Last call" for CSS Mobile Profile 2.0
- # [20:03] <DanC> sigh... pointer to unpublished draft
- # [20:14] <DanC> ah... mail from CMN to public-html ... so he's "in town"...
- # [20:20] <aaronlev> DanC: it was a really simple brainstorming group
- # [20:20] <aaronlev> no one made any final decisions or anything like that
- # [20:20] <aaronlev> no one is trying to play politics
- # [20:20] <aaronlev> just trying to get an idea what might be acceptable generally
- # [20:21] <DanC> yes, I think the benefit of the meeting outweighs the process quibbles. I'm replying to CMN
- # [20:25] * Quits: laplink (link@193.157.66.199) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [20:27] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Quit: gavin_)
- # [20:29] * Joins: anne (annevk@81.68.67.12)
- # [20:30] <anne> DanC, sure, I think I should be able to attend tomorrow
- # [20:31] <anne> although...
- # [20:35] * Joins: mitzpettel (mitz@17.203.15.167)
- # [20:35] * Parts: mitzpettel (mitz@17.203.15.167)
- # [20:41] <anne> likely not :(
- # [21:02] * Quits: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145) (Quit: mjs)
- # [21:04] * Joins: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145)
- # [21:08] * Joins: timbl (timbl@208.54.94.94)
- # [21:10] * Quits: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145) (Quit: mjs)
- # [21:14] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Ping timeout)
- # [21:15] * Joins: edas (edaspet@82.233.238.50)
- # [21:26] * anne made a small update to http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/diff/ to include <datatemplate> and offline Web apps
- # [21:34] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [22:04] * Quits: timbl (timbl@208.54.94.94) (Ping timeout)
- # [22:13] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.255.106.148)
- # [22:31] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
- # [22:35] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
- # [22:36] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
- # [22:53] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.255.106.148) (Quit: mjs)
- # [22:57] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.255.106.148)
- # [23:13] * Joins: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.154.87.254)
- # [23:27] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.255.106.148) (Quit: mjs)
- # [23:50] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@66.31.86.217) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.7/2007091417])
- # Session Close: Thu Oct 18 00:00:00 2007
The end :)