/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-10-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 18 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  38. # [04:40] <karl> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0170.html
  39. # [04:41] <karl> Using webservices for RDFa test suite validation
  40. # [04:41] <karl> The new tool, crazyivan.py[1], will do the following:
  41. # [04:41] <karl> - Retrieve all approved or unreviewed RDFa test cases from the W3C.
  42. # [04:41] <karl> - Use the pyRDFa Distiller web service[2] to convert to RDF and run a
  43. # [04:41] <karl> modified SPARQL query from the test suite using the sparqler
  44. # [04:41] <karl> interface[3].
  45. # [04:41] <karl> - Dump the XHTML, N3 triples, RDF, and SPARQL to separate files.
  46. # [04:41] <karl> - Generate a test report, containing all the information necessary
  47. # [04:41] <karl> (XHTML, N3, RDF, and SPARQL), to understand the test case.
  48. # [04:47] <karl> http://www.ilinsky.com/articles/XMLHttpRequest/
  49. # [04:47] <karl> Re-inventing XMLHttpRequest: Cross-browser implementation with sniffing capabilities
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  95. # [11:49] <anne> http://www.schepers.cc/?p=46
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  97. # [11:53] <beowulf> the use of the word 'spastic' in that article should be reconsidered
  98. # [11:54] <beowulf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spastic # 2nd para, UK context
  99. # [11:55] <anne> he's from the US though
  100. # [11:55] <beowulf> i know, but it'll likely create something
  101. # [11:57] <anne> I'ts unclear why he assumes that "Aria 2" would be backwards incompatible and why he assumes there will be many new languages like "Aria" that require a similar extension mechanism
  102. # [11:58] <anne> But maybe that's what you do at the W3C. Generalize solutions so you can place your solution within a framework...
  103. # [11:59] <Dashiva> beowulf: If people want to misunderstand, I'm sure they'll find a way regardless
  104. # [12:04] <Lachy> I'm not thrilled about the idea of using prefix_foo for namespaces, especially for tag names, mostly because of backwards compatibility
  105. # [12:05] <Lachy> but I suppose reserving prefixes and continuing to use the colon would be even less backwards compatible
  106. # [12:07] <Hixie> we could use a hyphen...
  107. # [12:07] <Lachy> what about a semi-colon? Would that still be well-formed?
  108. # [12:08] <Lachy> sadly, no :-(
  109. # [12:08] <Hixie> <foo aria;disabled=""> looks retarded
  110. # [12:08] <Lachy> yeah, but it's easier to type than an underscore
  111. # [12:08] <Hixie> seriously, what's wrong with aria-disabled?
  112. # [12:08] <Hixie> other than some nonsense argument about "generic prefix mechanisms"
  113. # [12:11] <Lachy> I don't have a problem with aria-*, but I don't see how we could get them to stop trying to make it completely generic
  114. # [12:11] <Hixie> why try?
  115. # [12:12] <Hixie> (and who is "them"?)
  116. # [12:12] <Lachy> whoever it is that argued for making this a generic prefix mechanism and came up with the idea of using underscore
  117. # [12:13] <Hixie> my understanding is that that was doug
  118. # [12:13] <Hixie> and i would not stop him making it generic if he wants to
  119. # [12:13] <Hixie> though my understanding is that merely using a hyphen is enough to stop him making it generic
  120. # [12:13] <Hixie> since he said the reason to _not_ use a hyphen was that you _couldn't_ make it generic with a hyphen
  121. # [12:15] * Hixie is still amused that the discussion has moved from whether or not the aria features are useful in the first place to what the attributes should be called, without, it seems, the former issue being addressed
  122. # [12:16] <Lachy> oh, I still don't think aria is useful, but continuing to argue about that doesn't seem all that productive and I've got better things to do
  123. # [12:17] <Hixie> like argue about the syntax? :-D
  124. # [12:17] <Lachy> :-)
  125. # [12:27] <gsnedders> oh, can we have a @land in case I misspell @lang again? (see, I gave my use case!)
  126. # [12:27] <anne> Hixie, are you already below 5000 outstanding e-mails or are they coming in at about the same rate as you address them? :)
  127. # [12:28] <Hixie> i'm at 3712
  128. # [12:28] <anne> cool
  129. # [12:28] <Hixie> (as of 4am last night)
  130. # [12:29] <anne> you make strange days, trying to accomedate us? :p
  131. # [12:30] <Hixie> it's when i'm not likely to be editing the imap folders :-)
  132. # [12:30] <Hixie> http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.csv
  133. # [12:30] <Hixie> third column is the number that matters
  134. # [12:30] <Hixie> don't ask me what timezone that's in, btw
  135. # [12:30] <Hixie> i have no idea
  136. # [12:30] <Hixie> probably UTC but i'm not sure
  137. # [12:32] <Philip> Oops, I forgot it takes forever for public-html emails to appear when you use a new address
  138. # [12:35] <Hixie> interesting numbers
  139. # [12:35] <Hixie> well i should sleep
  140. # [12:35] <Hixie> nn all
  141. # [12:40] <hsivonen> hmm. so I'm a Capulet and a Young Turk
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  144. # [12:49] <Philip> "a parser is a program that reads a formal syntax and makes a model of it for the browser to act on" - that sounds slightly inaccurate, since it would exclude parsers for languages with no formal syntax, like C++ (where some of the parsing requirements are defined by prose) or HTML5 (where nothing is formal) or Perl (where the parsing isn't defined at all)
  145. # [12:50] * Philip wonders how many significant languages actually have a formal syntax
  146. # [12:51] <marcos> philip, iit's a blog entry, not a spec ;)
  147. # [12:53] <gsnedders> Philip: XML has some sort of BNF, does it not? SGML is just prose, though
  148. # [12:54] * anne discovers that UTF-8 decoding interoperability is indeed not there
  149. # [12:54] <Philip> marcos: Indeed, it's not a real problem, I'm just being pedantic and/or thinking aloud :-)
  150. # [12:55] <gsnedders> anne: Unicode 5.0 has very few requires regarding what exactly must be done on an error
  151. # [12:55] <gsnedders> anne: also, earlier versions allowed five/six byte sequences
  152. # [12:56] <Philip> gsnedders: Does the XML spec define enough stuff formally that you could feed it into a parser-creating tool and have a correct XML parser pop out?
  153. # [12:57] <gsnedders> Philip: I think so. I've never tried, though.
  154. # [12:59] <anne> no
  155. # [13:00] <anne> most definitely not
  156. # [13:02] <anne> gsnedders, yeah, I know; this all kind of sucks
  157. # [13:03] <gsnedders> anne: did you hear in #whatwg about me having written a UTF-8 decoder?
  158. # [13:03] <anne> no, what language?
  159. # [13:03] <gsnedders> PHP
  160. # [13:03] <anne> is it online somewhere?
  161. # [13:04] <gsnedders> I'm hacking together some sort of unicode support for PHP < 6 (and it just uses the native stuff on PHP6)
  162. # [13:05] <gsnedders> anne: http://pastebin.ca/740956
  163. # [13:05] <gsnedders> anne: see line 200 onwards
  164. # [13:08] <gsnedders> Anyone know what feed readers change their subscription upon receiving a permanent redirect?
  165. # [13:08] <anne> your error handling seems pretty straightforward
  166. # [13:09] <anne> most do, I think
  167. # [13:12] <gsnedders> anne: I think it follows most of the recommendations in Unicode 5.0
  168. # [13:13] <Philip> Was <ul aria.checked="true"> suggested for namespace-like syntax? That looks less ugly to me than _
  169. # [13:14] <anne> no, but that looks like scripting to me
  170. # [13:14] <anne> I think we should just use -
  171. # [13:16] <gsnedders> -++
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  173. # [13:22] <hsivonen> I just sent email trying to say what I thought I said repeatedly on the telecon :-(
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  177. # [13:27] <zcorpan> "The browser vendors have done *nothing* for a decade" ?
  178. # [13:28] <zcorpan> --http://www.w3.org/mid/a707f8300710171329g305645c7wee83abcf99ecd130@mail.gmail.com
  179. # [13:28] <anne> yeah... he's been arguing that point for quite some time
  180. # [13:28] <anne> I think it has to do with us not implementing XForms
  181. # [13:29] <zcorpan> so if you don't implement xforms, you're not doing anything?
  182. # [13:29] <anne> I'm not sure what the reasoning is
  183. # [13:37] <hsivonen> I guess that thread has gone beyond the point where participating would be productive
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  185. # [13:57] <Philip> I guess ARIA attributes won't be reflected in the DOM, so element.aria_foo vs element['aria-foo'] isn't relevant?
  186. # [13:57] <zcorpan> Philip: right
  187. # [13:58] <zcorpan> just setAttribute()
  188. # [13:59] <zcorpan> even if they were, the convention is to remove the hyphen and uppercase the next character
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  190. # [14:38] <gsnedders> anne: Apache treats method names in the <Limit> directive as case-sensitive
  191. # [14:38] <anne> this is in response to?
  192. # [14:39] <anne> any idea how I can configure Apache btw to let through custom methods?
  193. # [14:39] <gsnedders> anne: mainly just your prior research looking at such things a few days ago
  194. # [14:39] <anne> k, makes sense that they do as method names are case-sensitive per HTTP
  195. # [14:40] <anne> though browsers make a mess of that with XMLHttpRequest, but that helps authors too on the other hand
  196. # [14:40] <anne> In HTML <form method=geT> is also not a geT request but a GET
  197. # [14:41] <anne> oh fun, HTML4 says otherwise: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.13.1
  198. # [14:42] <anne> 'get: With the HTTP "get" method'
  199. # [14:42] <anne> ai ai ai
  200. # [14:42] <gsnedders> anne: <http://hg.gsnedders.com/cgi-bin/hgwebdir.cgi/Unicode/> if you want a more perm IRI for my Unicode stuff
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  223. # [18:23] * Topic is 'HTML WG teleconference 11 Oct 23:00UTC http://www.w3.org/html/wg/il16 (more logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ )'
  224. # [18:23] * Set by DanC on Fri Oct 12 00:52:54
  225. # [18:23] <DanC> HS: email integration is important; tracker takes email input?
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  229. # [20:23] * Topic is 'HTML WG teleconference 11 Oct 23:00UTC http://www.w3.org/html/wg/il16 (more logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ )'
  230. # [20:23] * Set by DanC on Fri Oct 12 00:52:54
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  234. # [22:23] * Topic is 'HTML WG teleconference 11 Oct 23:00UTC http://www.w3.org/html/wg/il16 (more logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ )'
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The end :)