/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-11-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Nov 03 00:00:01 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:11] * Joins: sbuluf (opr@200.49.140.177)
  4. # [00:20] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@80.143.141.117) (Ping timeout)
  5. # [00:22] * jgraham wonders if Philip's email about <section><span> is a reasonable way of trying out his issue-tracking-elf-hat
  6. # [00:22] <jgraham> Either that or inline style seems like a reasonable choice
  7. # [00:28] <Philip> I hope your elf hat has a little bell on the end
  8. # [00:29] * Philip used to have a Noddy hat like that, and it was great fun
  9. # [00:30] <Hixie> you know, i'm skeptical that Julian read the entire e-mail on the ping="" attribute. I say this before having seen anything that he wrote, merely because he cross-posted the e-mail desite my explicitly asking that he not do so.
  10. # [00:31] <Lachy> Hixie, maybe you should set a Reply-To header whenever you do a xpost, so people don't have to think
  11. # [00:38] <Lachy> in the latest survey about publishing the HTML design principles, is everyone in an organisation supposed to answer that, or only one rep from each member org?
  12. # [00:39] <Lachy> i.e. should I answer it for my self, or let Anne answer it collectively for Opera?
  13. # [00:40] <Lachy> DanC, yt? See previous questions.
  14. # [00:43] <Dashiva> On the topic of @ping, once the UI is in place isn't the user actually giving consent by clicking the link?
  15. # [00:47] <smedero> Hixie, I'm not sure the Tracker will allow for the states you're after...
  16. # [00:47] <smedero> "Very simple schema. Actions have a title and a due date and are assigned to a single Working Group member. Issues have a title, a description and are related to a product. Issues can only have two states (OPEN and CLOSED)."
  17. # [00:47] <smedero> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/features
  18. # [00:47] <smedero> I like simplicity, but it is a bit of a bummer that the state options can't be expanded.
  19. # [01:04] <mjs> DanC: added to what?
  20. # [01:05] <hober> mjs: to the issue tracker
  21. # [01:05] <smedero> mjs: you have write access to the Tracker now
  22. # [01:06] <mjs> well that's exciting
  23. # [01:06] <smedero> heh.
  24. # [01:10] <jgraham> mjs: You mean issue tracking systems don't give you that adrenaline rush and sense of danger that makes life worth living?
  25. # [01:11] <Dashiva> Every time I see a new issue, my heart skips a beat
  26. # [01:12] <mjs> jgraham: I'm a hacker, dammit, not a project manager
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  31. # [01:33] <Hixie> Lachy: which one is the right one depends on who replies
  32. # [01:37] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  33. # [01:38] <anne> Lachy, I think it's on a per Member basis
  34. # [01:52] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  35. # [01:54] <anne> Lachy, though if you disagree with what I filled in please do let me know so I can change our response appropriately :)
  36. # [01:55] <Lachy> ok, I'll take a look at what you posted
  37. # [01:57] <Lachy> well, they weren't very creative responses. you didn't leave any comments.
  38. # [01:57] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  39. # [01:57] <anne> seems that Gregory isn't really happy with the editors: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2007Nov/0015.html
  40. # [01:58] <anne> (that plus the one posted earlier to public-html)
  41. # [01:58] <anne> is he volunteering?
  42. # [02:01] <smedero> "the last time he contributed was in may"... I'm not sure one could judge Dave's contributions based solely on the mailing list traffic.
  43. # [02:03] <Philip> What would be the other ways of judging his contributions in the editorial role?
  44. # [02:06] <Lachy> it's difficult to judge his contributions since much of it doesn't seem to have been very direct or public.
  45. # [02:07] <Lachy> though, I don't mind. I trust that he has contributed a reasonable amount, especially given that he's not working full time on the spec like Hixie is
  46. # [02:12] <smedero> Well there's the WHATWG list as well, the webkit blog occasionally mentions HTML 5 additions which might give an indicator to which parts Hyatt's been looking at, IRC logs, wiki revisions... I don't know if any of these sources would shed light on what Dave has contributed to the spec.
  47. # [02:13] <mjs> Dave also talks to Ian privately a lot
  48. # [02:13] <smedero> I'm with Lachy, it is not that big of deal to me... Dave's likely been swamped with Leopard and MobileSafari work.
  49. # [02:13] <mjs> I would assume they don't log this
  50. # [02:13] <anne> Lachy, you should get the big purple chocolate bars in the supermarket that have fruit & nut in them
  51. # [02:13] <anne> Lachy, they're quite good
  52. # [02:13] <anne> (re: twitter)
  53. # [02:13] <Lachy> anne, what's the brand name?
  54. # [02:13] <anne> dunno
  55. # [02:14] <Lachy> ok. Well, I've tried Yade and varios types from Freia, and they're no goo
  56. # [02:14] <Lachy> good*
  57. # [02:16] <Lachy> anne, Lars agreed to pick up my new MacBook Pro for me :-)
  58. # [02:16] <anne> nice
  59. # [02:17] <anne> you might want to ask Christian Krebs (chrisk) about the chocolate, he should be able to remember which one I bought
  60. # [02:17] <Lachy> though I was surprised the Apple Store didn't let me pre-order it so they could have it all ready for pickup on the day. Hopefully they'll have it in stock.
  61. # [02:25] <Lachy> I wonder if people will still object to HDP since mjs never got around to rewriting/renaming pave the cowpaths
  62. # [02:26] <mjs> they might
  63. # [02:26] <mjs> but that will have to happen for the next draft I guess
  64. # [02:26] <mjs> I don't want to hold up the WD any more
  65. # [02:26] <mjs> Lachy: w00t, MacBook Pro!
  66. # [02:27] * smedero hears his iBook G4 whimpering
  67. # [02:27] * jgraham didn't get his new MBP yet :(
  68. # [02:27] <smedero> (actually, it is running 10.5 quite happily)
  69. # [02:27] <mjs> Lachy, anne: on a slightly off-topic front, I am curious if you guys have any opinions about the new CSS transform and animation stuff that we've experimentally implemented in WebKit
  70. # [02:27] <Lachy> mjs, I'm getting the 17" with the high res 1920x1200 screen :-)
  71. # [02:27] <mjs> I might want to do a brief presentation/demo on it at the plenary, but I am not sure if it is possible to get on the schedule
  72. # [02:27] <mjs> Lachy: hot
  73. # [02:28] <mjs> also depends on whether Hyatt etc are ready with an actual spec proposal
  74. # [02:28] <Lachy> I haven't reviewed in throughoghly, but at first glance, it's seems pretty cool and easy for authors
  75. # [02:29] <Lachy> looks like it would make things like expanding menus and animations such as those used in LightBoxJS a whole lot easier
  76. # [02:32] <mjs> I have a cooler looking demo
  77. # [02:32] <mjs> when I show it I have to remind people that it's not Flash
  78. # [02:32] <mjs> and it's almost entirely scriptless
  79. # [02:32] <Lachy> I'm just testing it out in web kit now...
  80. # [02:32] <Lachy> so friggin' awesome!!! :-)
  81. # [02:34] * Joins: aroben (aroben@67.160.250.192)
  82. # [02:36] <Lachy> mjs, I don't understand why the rotation example in the webkit blog only rotations on the first click. It should rotate for every click
  83. # [02:37] <mjs> Lachy: after the first click, it already has a rotation transform set
  84. # [02:37] <mjs> so the style change is a no-op
  85. # [02:37] <mjs> I have a demo that toggles on click
  86. # [02:37] <mjs> gimme an email
  87. # [02:37] <mjs> I will mail it to you
  88. # [02:37] <mjs> I am not sure I can post it publicly cause it contains some copyrighted images
  89. # [02:37] <Lachy> my email address is lachlan.hunt@lachy.id.au
  90. # [02:38] <mjs> ok to send to <lachlan.hunt@lachy.id.au>?
  91. # [02:38] <mjs> ok
  92. # [02:43] <Lachy> nice
  93. # [02:44] <mjs> I have to fix the markup to use <p> and <figure> instead of <div>
  94. # [02:44] <mjs> so it can be even more totally semantic
  95. # [02:45] <mjs> but if you look at it without a stylesheet, you can see that the markup is clean
  96. # [02:48] <Lachy> it seems to really take up a lot of CPU processing when it's doing a lot of animations, though it still remains quite responsive the whole time
  97. # [02:48] <mjs> there's still stuff we can do to get the visual effects more polished
  98. # [02:49] <mjs> and to reduce CPU load
  99. # [02:49] <Lachy> is it making use of the Core-Animation features in OSX?
  100. # [02:49] <mjs> I'm not sure Flash would take any less CPU though
  101. # [02:49] <Lachy> I'm sure Flash would take more
  102. # [02:49] <Lachy> and be less responsive
  103. # [02:50] <Lachy> whenever I've seen Flash do any kind of remotely complex animation, it's always been slow
  104. # [02:51] <Lachy> is Apple planning to present the properties to the CSS WG or publish any more technical documentation about them?
  105. # [02:51] <mjs> we do plan to publish something
  106. # [02:51] <mjs> and to put this on some sort of standards track
  107. # [02:52] <Lachy> excellent.
  108. # [02:53] * gsnedders wonders whether to try out Numbers or stay with the familiar Excel
  109. # [02:53] <Lachy> gsnedders, Try out Numbers, it's cool
  110. # [02:54] <gsnedders> I've never been that drawn in my it when I've tried it before
  111. # [02:54] <Lachy> it's graphs are certainly much better looking
  112. # [02:54] <gsnedders> oh, without question
  113. # [02:54] <gsnedders> but the competition ain't great there
  114. # [02:55] <gsnedders> Numbers also has the side-effect of making me feel dumb, as I know nothing about it's UI
  115. # [02:56] <Lachy> nor do I. I haven't used it myself yet, though I probably will one day. I have it available, though not installed at the moment
  116. # [02:57] <gsnedders> Lachy: I'm on a MBP similar to what you're getting, BTW
  117. # [02:58] <Lachy> ok. I'm on my Mac Mini at the moment
  118. # [02:58] <gsnedders> hmm. 2.99+.5 doesn't work in a currency formatted field
  119. # [02:59] <Lachy> oh, and I finally resolved the annoying crashing/freezing issues with my Mac Mini :-)
  120. # [03:00] <Lachy> turned out I had some problem with my disk and I just needed to run Disk Utility to repair it. If only I'd known that a year ago!
  121. # [03:00] <gsnedders> heh
  122. # [03:00] <gsnedders> sucks
  123. # [03:01] * gsnedders has realised he better keep track of how much money he spends on food at school
  124. # [03:01] <Lachy> yeah, that's one advantage Windows has over OSX. Whenever it crashes from a disk related problem, it'll usually run chkdisk or scandisk before booting automatically
  125. # [03:03] <mjs> Numbers is pretty good
  126. # [03:03] <Lachy> hey, mjs, in the Spaces prefs in Leopard, where it lets me specify which space to open particular apps on...
  127. # [03:03] * Quits: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145) (Quit: mjs)
  128. # [03:04] <gsnedders> and mjs runs away in fear
  129. # [03:04] <Lachy> there's an option for "Every Space", but it doesn't work. Do you know why?
  130. # [03:05] <gsnedders> how would that work anyway, Lachy?
  131. # [03:05] <gsnedders> Lachy: have one thing on all spaces?
  132. # [03:06] <Lachy> I don't know. I assumed it would just replicate the window in the same position on each space, or at least move it when I switched spaces
  133. # [03:06] <smedero> What application isn't respecting "Every Space"?
  134. # [03:07] <Lachy> I've seen other multi-desktop systems that can have windows shown on multiple desktops
  135. # [03:07] <Lachy> smedero, Adium
  136. # [03:07] <smedero> Ahh, I haven't tried Adium.
  137. # [03:07] <Lachy> which one's have you tried that works?
  138. # [03:08] <smedero> Colloquy, BBEdit, FlySketch at the moment
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  140. # [03:08] <Lachy> ah, works with Firefox
  141. # [03:09] <smedero> I've been rather content with the new iChat... even though I'd much prefer a single buddy list...
  142. # [03:09] <smedero> but.. not enough to bother grabbing Adium
  143. # [03:09] <smedero> anyway... I thought FlySketch might not respect Every Space... but it did.
  144. # [03:09] <Lachy> mjs, check the logs for my questions, since you disconnected
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  147. # [03:09] <Lachy> I'd use iChat, but I don't have a .mac account
  148. # [03:09] <mjs> Lachy: ok
  149. # [03:10] <mjs> iChat works fine with a regular AIM account
  150. # [03:10] <smedero> I don't have one either...
  151. # [03:10] <mjs> which you can get for free
  152. # [03:10] <Lachy> I don't use AIM
  153. # [03:10] <mjs> I don't have a .mac account either
  154. # [03:10] <smedero> I use my Google Talk and AIM accounts.
  155. # [03:10] <Lachy> I use MSN, Skype, ICQ and Jabber.
  156. # [03:10] <mjs> oh yeah it works with Jabber too
  157. # [03:10] <gsnedders> Lachy: it works with XMPP too
  158. # [03:10] <Lachy> of those, I think it only supports jabber
  159. # [03:10] <smedero> yeah, that's a good reason to use Adium. :)
  160. # [03:10] <gsnedders> I use AIM, MSN, YIM, ICQ, and XMPP.
  161. # [03:11] <mjs> Lachy: I don't know much about spaces, don't really use it
  162. # [03:11] <gsnedders> (and I use all of them except ICQ regularly)
  163. # [03:11] <Lachy> ok
  164. # [03:11] <mjs> did you have other questions?
  165. # [03:11] <Lachy> I rarely use ICQ these days, though there are still a few active contacts that don't use anything else
  166. # [03:12] <Lachy> mjs, can get get me a serial number for OSX server? I want to try it out :-)
  167. # [03:12] <mjs> heh
  168. # [03:13] <Lachy> oh, and how do I remap the Enter key so that it functions usefully? I want it to open folders/launch files, not offer to rename them.
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  171. # [03:16] <mjs> Lachy: might be doable with Keyboard prefs
  172. # [03:16] <mjs> not sure though
  173. # [03:16] <mjs> most keybindings can be customized
  174. # [03:19] <Lachy> it won't let me specify just enter by itself, and although it lets me enter something like Control+Enter, it doesn't work
  175. # [03:21] <Lachy> oh well, I'll just try to get used to cmd+O
  176. # [03:24] <gsnedders> Lachy: it took me years to get used to the change of cmd+n from OS 9 to OS X
  177. # [03:24] <gsnedders> Lachy: I _still_ occasionally try and use the OS 9 behaviour.
  178. # [03:24] <Lachy> did cmd+n create a new folder in OS9?
  179. # [03:25] <gsnedders> yeah
  180. # [03:25] <mjs> space works for quicklooks
  181. # [03:25] <mjs> er
  182. # [03:25] <mjs> quicklook
  183. # [03:25] <mjs> singular
  184. # [03:25] <Lachy> I know, quick look is cool
  185. # [03:25] <gsnedders> I've not used quicklook much, actually
  186. # [03:26] <gsnedders> anyhow, I need to stop finding more things to do and sleep
  187. # [03:26] <Lachy> it works really well when you use coverflow to flip through images and then quicklook to show larger version
  188. # [03:26] <gsnedders> I keep going to bed, realising there's another thing to do, then coming back here.
  189. # [03:28] <gsnedders> (oh, and one thing on Leopard: as with all OS releases, it's the absolutely minute new things that make me like it so much)
  190. # [03:30] <Lachy> I also love Stacks in the dock, but one thing that really bugs me is that they didn't make the trash can work as a stack. I don't need a whole window just to recover a file, just show me the stack and go away when I grab the file I want
  191. # [03:31] <Lachy> Stacks has actually made the OSX applications folder somewhat useable, except that it won't let me manually re-order the icons in the grid
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  207. # [05:51] * Rejoined channel #html-wg
  208. # [05:51] * Topic is 'next HTML WG telcon 1 Nov 16:00 UTC http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ (more logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ )'
  209. # [05:51] * Set by DanC on Tue Oct 30 19:25:19
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  232. # [10:08] <anne> mjs, the animation stuff is nice, imo
  233. # [10:08] <mjs> anne: cool
  234. # [10:09] <mjs> anne: I hope I can find some way to do a demo on the plenary day, but if not, I'll show people as time allows
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  238. # [10:32] * anne wonders why Jonas disagrees with publishing the differences document
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  252. # [15:15] * Philip sees that the <a><p> Firefox packet-boundary thing doesn't apply to e.g. <section><span><h1>, which is lucky
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  279. # Session Close: Sun Nov 04 00:00:00 2007

The end :)