/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-11-15 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Nov 15 00:00:01 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:11] * Quits: timbl (timbl@128.30.5.117) (Quit: timbl)
  4. # [00:19] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  5. # [00:20] * Joins: sbuluf (ixefq@200.49.132.111)
  6. # [00:39] * Joins: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.154.87.254)
  7. # [00:42] * Joins: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175)
  8. # [00:51] * Quits: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.154.87.254) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  9. # [01:03] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@88.91.104.221) (Ping timeout)
  10. # [01:20] * Quits: jmb (jmb@152.78.68.189) (Ping timeout)
  11. # [01:22] * Quits: tH (Rob@87.102.42.252) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508])
  12. # [01:23] * Joins: jmb (jmb@152.78.68.189)
  13. # [01:55] * Quits: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  14. # [02:14] * Joins: timbl (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  15. # [02:23] * Quits: kingryan (rking3@208.66.64.47) (Quit: kingryan)
  16. # [02:37] * Joins: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.154.87.254)
  17. # [02:51] * Quits: timbl (timbl@209.6.134.246) (Connection reset by peer)
  18. # [02:52] * Joins: timbl (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  19. # [03:09] * Quits: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.72) (Quit: Leaving)
  20. # [03:12] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.255.100.187) (Quit: mjs)
  21. # [03:17] * Quits: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.154.87.254) (Quit: Leaving)
  22. # [04:06] * Joins: Marcos_ (chatzilla@131.181.148.226)
  23. # [04:10] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachlan@88.91.104.203)
  24. # [04:24] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  25. # [04:27] * Joins: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145)
  26. # [04:52] * Joins: timbl_ (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  27. # [04:52] * Quits: timbl (timbl@209.6.134.246) (Connection reset by peer)
  28. # [04:56] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  29. # [05:06] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  30. # [05:06] * Parts: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  31. # [05:19] * Quits: anthony (chatzilla@203.12.172.254) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514])
  32. # [05:30] * Joins: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30)
  33. # [05:47] * Quits: timbl_ (timbl@209.6.134.246) (Quit: timbl_)
  34. # [06:58] * Joins: aroben (aroben@67.160.250.192)
  35. # [06:59] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  36. # [07:01] * Parts: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  37. # [07:05] * Quits: sbuluf (ixefq@200.49.132.111) (Quit: sbuluf)
  38. # [07:09] * Quits: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30) (Quit: Leaving)
  39. # [07:46] * Joins: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30)
  40. # [08:03] * Joins: paullewis_ (paullewis@82.242.109.217)
  41. # [08:05] * Quits: paullewis (paullewis@82.242.109.217) (Ping timeout)
  42. # [08:21] * Quits: aroben (aroben@67.160.250.192) (Ping timeout)
  43. # [08:26] * Quits: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30) (Quit: Leaving)
  44. # [08:50] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  45. # [08:58] * Quits: jwatt (roslea@82.173.182.1) (Ping timeout)
  46. # [08:59] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  47. # [09:20] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169) (Ping timeout)
  48. # [09:21] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  49. # [09:24] * Quits: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65) (Ping timeout)
  50. # [09:30] * Joins: tH_ (Rob@87.102.42.252)
  51. # [09:31] * tH_ is now known as tH
  52. # [09:36] * Quits: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145) (Quit: mjs)
  53. # [09:40] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169)
  54. # [09:44] * Joins: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145)
  55. # [09:44] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
  56. # [09:44] * Parts: Lachy_ (Lachlan@88.91.104.203) (Leaving)
  57. # [09:46] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  58. # [09:47] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachlan@88.91.104.203)
  59. # [09:47] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@88.91.104.203) (Client exited)
  60. # [10:00] * Joins: jwatt (roslea@89.251.0.64)
  61. # [10:06] * Joins: Steve_f (chatzilla@82.44.69.8)
  62. # [10:09] * Parts: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  63. # [10:17] * Quits: jwatt (roslea@89.251.0.64) (Ping timeout)
  64. # [10:25] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  65. # [10:29] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  66. # [10:32] * Quits: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65) (Connection reset by peer)
  67. # [10:33] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  68. # [10:38] * Parts: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  69. # [10:44] * Joins: jwatt (roslea@89.251.0.64)
  70. # [10:44] * Joins: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185)
  71. # [10:51] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  72. # [10:53] * Quits: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185) (Ping timeout)
  73. # [10:58] * Joins: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30)
  74. # [11:00] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
  75. # [11:01] * Joins: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185)
  76. # [11:02] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  77. # [11:06] * Quits: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185) (Connection reset by peer)
  78. # [11:06] * Joins: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185)
  79. # [11:07] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  80. # [11:09] * Joins: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175)
  81. # [11:11] * Quits: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65) (Ping timeout)
  82. # [11:11] * Quits: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185) (Ping timeout)
  83. # [11:16] * Joins: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185)
  84. # [11:30] * Quits: heycam (cam@124.168.2.82) (Quit: bye)
  85. # [11:32] * Quits: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185) (Ping timeout)
  86. # [11:59] * Joins: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185)
  87. # [12:02] * Quits: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185) (Ping timeout)
  88. # [12:06] * Joins: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185)
  89. # [12:12] * Quits: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  90. # [12:16] * Quits: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185) (Connection reset by peer)
  91. # [12:16] * Joins: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185)
  92. # [12:19] * Quits: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185) (Ping timeout)
  93. # [12:24] * Joins: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185)
  94. # [12:31] * Quits: marcospod (root@124.171.172.185) (Ping timeout)
  95. # [13:04] * Joins: myakura (myakura@122.18.190.238)
  96. # [13:09] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  97. # [13:14] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  98. # [13:14] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Leaving)
  99. # [13:16] * Joins: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233)
  100. # [13:19] * Joins: timbl (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  101. # [13:21] * Quits: timbl (timbl@209.6.134.246) (Quit: timbl)
  102. # [13:25] * Joins: marcospod (root@124.171.166.8)
  103. # [13:28] * Quits: marcospod (root@124.171.166.8) (Ping timeout)
  104. # [13:36] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  105. # [13:44] * Quits: myakura (myakura@122.18.190.238) (Quit: Leaving...)
  106. # [14:32] * Joins: timbl (timbl@128.30.5.117)
  107. # [14:34] * Quits: hober (ted@68.107.112.172) (Client exited)
  108. # [14:42] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22)
  109. # [14:46] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  110. # [14:57] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@213.236.208.22) (Connection reset by peer)
  111. # [15:02] * Quits: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@123.176.107.50) (Connection reset by peer)
  112. # [15:04] * Joins: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@123.176.107.50)
  113. # [15:07] * Quits: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30) (Quit: Leaving)
  114. # [15:09] * Joins: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  115. # [15:16] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  116. # [15:21] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  117. # [15:35] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  118. # [15:36] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30)
  119. # [15:54] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  120. # [15:55] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@66.30.196.151)
  121. # [15:56] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  122. # [15:56] * Joins: smedero (smedero@158.130.16.191)
  123. # [15:59] * Quits: timbl (timbl@128.30.5.117) (Quit: timbl)
  124. # [16:13] * Quits: Steve_f (chatzilla@82.44.69.8) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514])
  125. # [16:14] * Joins: DanC (connolly@128.30.52.30)
  126. # [16:15] * DanC changes topic to 'HTML WG http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ (logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ ) '
  127. # [16:32] * Joins: timbl_ (timbl@128.30.5.117)
  128. # [16:40] * Quits: anne (annevk@82.156.29.70) (Connection reset by peer)
  129. # [16:41] * Joins: anne (annevk@82.156.29.70)
  130. # [16:44] * Joins: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.156)
  131. # [16:45] * Quits: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.156) (Connection reset by peer)
  132. # [16:48] * Joins: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.156)
  133. # [16:53] * Quits: Thezilch (fuz007@68.54.228.249) (Ping timeout)
  134. # [17:03] * Joins: matt (matt@128.30.52.30)
  135. # [17:06] * Quits: matt (matt@128.30.52.30) (Quit: matt)
  136. # [17:07] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169) (Ping timeout)
  137. # [17:07] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169)
  138. # [17:09] * Joins: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.186.99)
  139. # [17:10] * oedipus thanks smedero for logging ARIA resources in the HTML WG issue tracker in real time at the f2f
  140. # [17:12] <smedero> oedipus, oh it was no problem.
  141. # [17:13] <oedipus> nevertheless, it is much appreciated... and the whole TPAC experience proved that we CAN function as a non-dysfunctional WG!
  142. # [17:14] <smedero> yep, I thought the f2f was productive ... all things considered.
  143. # [17:14] * smedero remembers he needs to respond to the W3C Systems team about a Tracker feature request...
  144. # [17:14] * DanC changes topic to 'HTML WG teleconference 2007-11-16T17:00:00Z ; agenda due to public-html-wg-announce at T-24hrs . http://www.w3.org/html/wg/ (logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ ) '
  145. # [17:15] <DanC> oedipus, somebody was videoing the ARIA demo for you; have you seen it?
  146. # [17:15] <DanC> who was the videographer guy? I can't remember. I want to see the story that Hixe and I told about the t-shirts
  147. # [17:16] <oedipus> it seemed productive from an outside participant's POV -- a lot of individual offers to stream audio via skype during various sessions, etc. i think shows a willingness to collaborate which is quite welcome
  148. # [17:16] <DanC> yes, great community spirit
  149. # [17:16] <smedero> erg... the name is escaping me as well...
  150. # [17:16] <oedipus> danC, yes, i did obtain the file of the ARIA demo -- it was marcos who captured it
  151. # [17:16] <smedero> right, marcos.
  152. # [17:16] <DanC> ah. thanks.
  153. # [17:17] <smedero> Just in case this slipped past anyone's ARIA radar: http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2007/11/introducing-axsjax-access-enabling-ajax.html
  154. # [17:17] <DanC> is that ARIA demo file published? I'd be happy to have it published on the new media.w3.org
  155. # [17:17] <oedipus> no problem -- i think marcos was going to make them available to the WG
  156. # [17:18] <DanC> smedero, is that linked from the relevant issue? maybe mail a pointer to public-html and tag it with the relevant issue #?
  157. # [17:18] <oedipus> DanC, media.w3.org eh? sounds good to me -- i can provide the original AVI file, or a compressed version thereof -- i think he was thinking of putting some stuff up on YouTube
  158. # [17:18] <oedipus> marcos, are you actually here?
  159. # [17:18] <smedero> it is not yet... was just opening a new tab to the tracker page.
  160. # [17:19] <DanC> don't just link it; mail a pointer to public-html
  161. # [17:19] <DanC> the notification is worthwhile
  162. # [17:19] <smedero> will do.
  163. # [17:19] <oedipus> i'm surprised raman and charles didn't post it to public-html
  164. # [17:19] <smedero> yeah, me too
  165. # [17:19] <oedipus> they did, i think, post it to wai-xtech
  166. # [17:21] <oedipus> does anyone know of a hex/rgb to named color converter? i have my action item on the CSS in the HTML5 editors' draft ready (and have for a while), but need to know what the 5 remaining colors are closest to as "named colors" so i can suggest alternatives...
  167. # [17:22] <anne> oh right, meeting tomorrow
  168. # [17:22] <oedipus> DanC, to whom should fodder for media.w3.org be sent or pointed-to? i can convert the avi file to ogg or theora
  169. # [17:23] <oedipus> anne, right -- and the day that the proposed forms joint task force charter is submitted to the WG, right? or do we need to coordinate with KarlD or Mike(tm)Smith
  170. # [17:23] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@88.91.104.203)
  171. # [17:23] <anne> Marcos Caceres made the video of the t-shirt thingie
  172. # [17:23] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  173. # [17:24] <oedipus> haven't loaded but found via search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV4oLWgOdbk (t-shirt thingie)
  174. # [17:25] <anne> I thought the deadline was next week
  175. # [17:26] <oedipus> anne, you may be right -- conditions here haven't been conducive to coherent thought...
  176. # [17:26] * DanC hopes to delegate more stuff to tracker/wiki... e.g. replace http://www.w3.org/html/wg/il16 with http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
  177. # [17:26] <anne> yeah, 23rd of November
  178. # [17:26] <oedipus> anne, didn't we agree 2 weeks from the friday after our telecon?
  179. # [17:26] <oedipus> anne, strike that last -- you're right
  180. # [17:26] <anne> initially, but we added a week because of the TPAC
  181. # [17:27] <DanC> and http://www.w3.org/html/wg/nov07 is sorta migrating to http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/F2F , though I do need something timestamped... prolly a /QA/ blog entry
  182. # [17:27] <oedipus> right, i have no congenital calendaring capacity...
  183. # [17:29] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  184. # [17:30] * DanC linked the t-shirt video from http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/F2F ; wishes for something like mf-bot to do this notification for me
  185. # [17:31] <DanC> hmm... the audio/video quality isn't great...
  186. # [17:31] <oedipus> DanC, i don't know if what i have is audio-only or video, which is why i was going to compress it into ogg or theora
  187. # [17:31] <DanC> audio is not bad...
  188. # [17:32] <oedipus> same with the ARIA file i have, but could be improved by conversion and compression...
  189. # [17:32] <DanC> oedipus, do you see contact info at the bottom of media.w3.org? I haven't looked. I'd like you to mail whoever sings that page... maybe ted or sysreq... and copy me and Mike... with what you know about that video
  190. # [17:33] <anne> it's not signed
  191. # [17:33] <oedipus> no contact info is listed on media.w3.org -- only 2 links to Ogg vorbis info
  192. # [17:33] <oedipus> no one listed in the document source, either
  193. # [17:33] <DanC> not signed... >-|
  194. # [17:33] <anne> although it says systems team at the top
  195. # [17:33] <anne> so sysreq prolly
  196. # [17:33] <DanC> yes, sysreq then
  197. # [17:33] <oedipus> yep -- ok
  198. # [17:34] <DanC> MikeSmith, do you know http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/SignIt well? evidently the systems team is forgetting
  199. # [17:35] * MikeSmith is lookin now
  200. # [17:36] <MikeSmith> I guess I prefer to use $Id$ :)
  201. # [17:36] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169) (Ping timeout)
  202. # [17:36] <MikeSmith> but yeah, should be e-mail address too
  203. # [17:37] * Parts: Lionheart (robin@66.57.69.65)
  204. # [17:37] <MikeSmith> systems team due for some slapping around 3-stooges style maybe
  205. # [17:37] <MikeSmith> setting a bad example for the youth
  206. # [17:38] <oedipus> carefull Mike(tm)Smith, someone might poke out an eye, chowderhead!
  207. # [17:39] * oedipus notes that he can't get his text-to-speech engine to make the 3 stooges sounds...
  208. # [17:41] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169)
  209. # [17:41] <MikeSmith> oedipus - gotta inject some Curly into that system
  210. # [17:42] <MikeSmith> along with more cowbell
  211. # [17:42] <DanC> MikeSmith, the HTML markup for a signature is <address>. you're welcome to put $Id$ in there, but that only says who last modified it, not who signs it generally
  212. # [17:43] * DanC has renewed interest in such markup semantics arcana after last week's inspirational talk by Hakon about our cultural heritage
  213. # [17:43] * MikeSmith re-reads http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#the-address
  214. # [17:43] * DanC hasn't read that yet
  215. # [17:44] * DanC is happy MikeSmith is reading that and /Provider/Style in the same go
  216. # [17:44] <oedipus> mike(tm)smith, need an en-US-x-stooges or en-US-x-larry, en-US-x-curly. & en-US-x-moe
  217. # [17:45] <oedipus> DanC, i'm about to email sysreq about media.w3.org -- will CC you and mike(tm)smith, as requested
  218. # [17:45] * smedero heads to lunch
  219. # [17:46] <DanC> MikeSmith, anne, speaking of examples for children... I'm having lunch with my 8 year old today, telling him I'm getting him an XO rather than a PC. see http://people.w3.org/~connolly/xo-xmas/ (I'm not sure whether that's a cool URL)
  220. # [17:47] <oedipus> works for me, but then i'm only mentally 8 years old...
  221. # [17:47] <DanC> everyone should be 4 years old 3 times a day, oedipus . ;-)
  222. # [17:47] * anne is trying to get an OLPC by donating one
  223. # [17:47] <oedipus> agreed, DanC!
  224. # [17:47] <DanC> i ordered one get-one-give-one package last night. I think I'm going to order 2 more for my other boys
  225. # [17:48] <anne> I can imagine it being annoying though not having Windows when you want to play games...
  226. # [17:48] <DanC> do you see his emphatic journal pages?
  227. # [17:49] <anne> I followed your xo-xmas link above
  228. # [17:49] <DanC> cool
  229. # [17:49] <oedipus> there are a limited number of games that are purely audio -- even shooting games -- will have to find pointer
  230. # [17:50] * MikeSmith wonders why they naming OLPCs after grades of cognac
  231. # [17:51] <oedipus> "in case of emergency, break open the box and drink the contents..."
  232. # [17:52] <anne> MikeSmith, heh, would be nice if we used something like that for specifications, rather than LC, CR, etc. :)
  233. # [17:52] <DanC> HTML specs have had code names. you remember HTML Cougar, yes?
  234. # [17:52] <MikeSmith> anne - definitely -- much more appealing
  235. # [17:53] <anne> DanC, I do now (after "ctrl+t", "g html cougar", "enter")
  236. # [17:53] <oedipus> hey, there's even a very appropriately named "wombat" version of the authoring tool accessibility guidelines -- appropriate given the wombat's proclivity to procreate...
  237. # [17:54] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG-wombat
  238. # [17:55] * Quits: timbl_ (timbl@128.30.5.117) (Quit: timbl_)
  239. # [17:55] <MikeSmith> I think we should use the names of members of the Wu-Tang Clan for specs : RZA, GZA, ODB
  240. # [17:56] <oedipus> i'll spec to the OBD TR any day of the week
  241. # [17:57] <oedipus> anyone read the IETF draft in search of RFC status? it allows content that arises in a newsgroup and referenced from a web page to be read as news rather than forcing the user to go through a Web interface to the newsgroup -- http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ellermann-news-nntp-uri-08
  242. # [17:59] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Ping timeout)
  243. # [18:02] * DanC sees msg from oedipus to sysreq... perfect
  244. # [18:02] * oedipus thanks - now the waiting game begins (or, to quote Homer J. Simpson "the waiting game sucks -- let's play hungry hungry hippos!"
  245. # [18:03] <DanC> ah... next time you send to sysreq, include a homer quote; our machines are named for simpsons characters
  246. # [18:04] <oedipus> yeah, i made the aquaintance of lionel hutz when testing out my CVS account
  247. # [18:04] <DanC> ok
  248. # [18:04] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169) (Ping timeout)
  249. # [18:05] * DanC struggles to clear desk to get agenda out...
  250. # [18:05] * oedipus notes that the first movie he's seen in a theater with descriptive video was the simpsons movie -- it's also one of the VERY few broadcast programs in the U.S. on a commercial channel to offer DVS (but only when broadcast -- in syndication, the secondary audio (SAP) streams spanish...
  251. # [18:06] * oedipus no DVS on simpsons DVDs -- need to set up a site full of SMIL files using the original DVS script and timing to sync with the episode
  252. # [18:07] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169)
  253. # [18:16] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.236)
  254. # [18:16] * Quits: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.236) (Quit: Leaving)
  255. # [18:16] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.72)
  256. # [18:18] <DanC> ok, I think http://www.w3.org/html/wg/il16 1.65 is good; can I get a 2nd pair of eyeballs?
  257. # [18:22] * MikeSmith wonders what time it is in Helsinki now
  258. # [18:22] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: 19:22
  259. # [18:22] * Joins: timbl_ (timbl@128.30.5.117)
  260. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - thanks
  261. # [18:22] <oedipus> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=31&year=2007&hour=17&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
  262. # [18:24] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - country code for Finland is +35 ?
  263. # [18:24] <MikeSmith> ah, 358
  264. # [18:25] <hsivonen> 358 is the country code and if you have a number with a leading zero, the zero gets dropped with the country code
  265. # [18:26] <oedipus> DanC, version 1.65 sounds good to me - it also seems logical that since HTML4x was versioned as XHTML1, and not XHTML4, the version number for HTML5 should be XHTML 1.5, HTML6, XHTML 1.6, etc. -- subrevisions, such as XHTML 1.1 could be reflected using XHTML 1.5.1 and so on...
  266. # [18:26] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - thanks
  267. # [18:28] <oedipus> pointer to archived comment above: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0006.html
  268. # [18:28] <anne> DanC, what's the difference between 2 and 3?
  269. # [18:28] <anne> DanC, and what about publishing the other drafts?
  270. # [18:29] <anne> DanC, also note that Hixie and I created this offline-webapps draft to "inform the public"
  271. # [18:39] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@66.122.123.182)
  272. # [18:45] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  273. # [18:48] <gsnedders> oedipus: I don't get that. If HTML 4x was XHTML 1, how should HTML 5x be XHTML 1.5? Surely HTML 4x would need to be XHTML 1.4 for that to make sense?
  274. # [18:51] <oedipus> gsneddrs: if this was a perfect world, HTML4x would be XHTML 1.4, but HTML5 wasn't on the event horizon when XHTML 1 was promulgated -- i'm advocating adopting a versioning naming convention that is forwards looking -- it doesn't make sense that the versioning of HTML5 should be XHTML5, when XHTML2 is currently under development...
  275. # [18:52] <gsnedders> oedipus: so we're a major upgrade to HTML and a minor one to XHTML? That doesn't seem quite right to me.
  276. # [18:53] <oedipus> it strikes me as much more sane than XHTML5
  277. # [18:53] <oedipus> XHTML2 is allowed to break backwards-compatibility when necessary, HTML5 is not, hence HTML 1.5
  278. # [18:53] <oedipus> er, XHTML 1.5
  279. # [18:54] <gsnedders> oedipus: so should we call the text/html serialisation HTML 4.5?
  280. # [18:54] <gsnedders> oedipus: because we're not allowed to break b/c
  281. # [18:54] <oedipus> no, we can call it HTML5, we just can't insist that it be serialized as XHTML5, since that SHOULD be reserved for future iterations of XHTML
  282. # [18:55] <gsnedders> oedipus: the only time I can think of an HTML major version number change which broke backwards compatibility was when it moved to SGML application
  283. # [18:55] <oedipus> i'm speaking of human logic, not programmatic logic
  284. # [18:56] <gsnedders> I know, but that's the only precedence with have regarding major version number changes breaking backwards compatibility.
  285. # [18:56] <oedipus> well, it was merely a suggestion aimed at trying to break the current impasse...
  286. # [18:56] <anne> HTML and XHTML are the same language
  287. # [18:56] <anne> that's part of the point of HTML5
  288. # [18:57] <oedipus> right -- so XHTML2 doesn't equal HTML2
  289. # [18:57] <oedipus> we have to work with what names are already out there and try to come to consensus on future naming conventions
  290. # [18:58] <anne> the W3C said to rebrand their XHTML2 effort
  291. # [18:58] <oedipus> i just don't think that XHTML5 makes sense as a serialization
  292. # [18:58] <oedipus> anne, if XHTML2 changes to XHTML6, what happens when/if HTML6 or HTML7 shows up?
  293. # [18:59] <gsnedders> oedipus: if it rebrands itself to clarify its independence, it'll drop HTML totally
  294. # [18:59] <anne> I think rebranding XHTML2 would involve taking H-T-M-L as sequence out of its name
  295. # [18:59] <gsnedders> "With the chartering of the XHTML 2 Working Group, W3C will continue its technical work on the language at the same time it considers rebranding the technology to clarify its independence and value in the marketplace." — <http://www.w3.org/2007/03/html-pressrelease>
  296. # [18:59] <anne> as it's quite different from HTML
  297. # [19:00] <oedipus> it is different from HTML because it is within its scope to provide better mousetraps than left us by legacy specs
  298. # [19:00] * oedipus will try and continue this conversation if anyone wants, but has to call into a UAAG teleconference now
  299. # [19:00] <gsnedders> and to clarify its independence means making it clear it isn't HTMK MO
  300. # [19:00] <gsnedders> *IMO
  301. # [19:00] <gsnedders> *HTML
  302. # [19:07] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachlan@88.91.104.203)
  303. # [19:08] * Joins: billyjack (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  304. # [19:08] * Quits: billyjack (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Client exited)
  305. # [19:10] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Ping timeout)
  306. # [19:14] * Joins: kingryan (rking3@208.66.64.47)
  307. # [19:17] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@88.91.104.203) (Quit: Leaving)
  308. # [19:21] * Parts: timbl_ (timbl@128.30.5.117)
  309. # [19:22] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@66.122.123.182) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  310. # [19:26] * Quits: paullewis_ (paullewis@82.242.109.217) (Connection reset by peer)
  311. # [19:27] * Quits: jwatt (roslea@89.251.0.64) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514])
  312. # [19:31] * Joins: paullewis (paullewis@82.242.109.217)
  313. # [19:31] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  314. # [19:33] * Quits: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.186.99) (Quit: Freedom Chat - Your Home Away From Home | http://www.freedomchat.org | tIRC script by the Freedom Chat Leets)
  315. # [19:35] <anne> yay, more lists...
  316. # [19:36] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachlan@88.91.104.203)
  317. # [19:36] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  318. # [19:41] <anne> 3D <canvas> "documentation": http://my.opera.com/timjoh/blog/2007/11/13/taking-the-canvas-to-another-dimension
  319. # [19:41] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  320. # [19:42] * Quits: smedero (smedero@158.130.16.191) (Quit: smedero)
  321. # [19:48] <Philip> anne: Aha, thanks
  322. # [19:49] <Philip> It does look strangely impossible to do lighting, which seems to make it useless for most things
  323. # [19:52] <Philip> (unless I'm missing some mechanism that would work for that)
  324. # [19:54] * Joins: smedero (smedero@158.130.16.191)
  325. # [20:04] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@88.91.104.203) (Quit: Leaving)
  326. # [20:13] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@88.91.104.203) (Quit: Leaving)
  327. # [20:14] * Joins: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175)
  328. # [20:19] * Joins: Thezilch (fuz007@68.54.228.249)
  329. # [20:30] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@86.145.188.131) (Quit: 404: Not Found)
  330. # [20:36] * Quits: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  331. # [20:40] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@86.145.188.131)
  332. # [20:45] * Joins: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175)
  333. # [20:46] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169) (Ping timeout)
  334. # [20:47] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169)
  335. # [20:48] * Quits: Thezilch (fuz007@68.54.228.249) (Ping timeout)
  336. # [20:52] * Joins: DanC_lap (connolly@128.30.52.30)
  337. # [21:01] * Quits: smedero (smedero@158.130.16.191) (Quit: smedero)
  338. # [21:24] * Quits: DanC_lap (connolly@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  339. # [21:38] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  340. # [21:43] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  341. # [21:52] * Joins: Julian (chatzilla@80.143.179.142)
  342. # [22:01] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@80.143.179.142) (Ping timeout)
  343. # [22:12] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  344. # [22:23] * Quits: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  345. # [22:33] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241)
  346. # [22:37] * Joins: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175)
  347. # [22:38] * Joins: heycam (cam@124.168.2.82)
  348. # [22:46] * Joins: Thezilch (fuz007@68.54.228.249)
  349. # [23:03] * Joins: timbl_ (timbl@128.30.5.117)
  350. # [23:03] * Quits: timbl_ (timbl@128.30.5.117) (Quit: timbl_)
  351. # [23:13] * Quits: Thezilch (fuz007@68.54.228.249) (Ping timeout)
  352. # [23:15] * Quits: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145) (Quit: mjs)
  353. # [23:19] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@66.30.196.151) (Ping timeout)
  354. # [23:24] * Quits: jmb (jmb@152.78.68.189) (Ping timeout)
  355. # [23:24] * Joins: jmb (jmb@152.78.68.189)
  356. # [23:36] * Quits: marcos (chatzilla@124.171.166.8) (Ping timeout)
  357. # [23:36] * Joins: marcos (chatzilla@124.171.166.8)
  358. # [23:40] * Quits: jgraham (james@81.86.216.175) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  359. # [23:46] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  360. # [23:51] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  361. # Session Close: Fri Nov 16 00:00:00 2007

The end :)