/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-12-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Dec 15 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  50. # [13:26] * anne is on a train in Sweden!
  51. # [13:31] <krijnh> Ok!
  52. # [13:36] <anne> it's pretty cool that they have that
  53. # [13:36] <anne> we should get one of those X2000 in NL
  54. # [13:36] <krijnh> Wireless in a train?
  55. # [13:36] <anne> yeah
  56. # [13:37] <anne> although the real solution is probably for mobile network providers to move to the 21st century
  57. # [13:38] <anne> this works pretty well meanwhile
  58. # [13:48] * Philip wishes he could use glGetProgrami to find the number of shader program attributes, rather than looping unboundedly until reaching a bad index which generates an error and returns uninitialised C++ memory
  59. # [13:49] <gsnedders> anne: is it cheap/expensive/free?
  60. # [13:51] <anne> I believe I paid 10 EUR for two hours
  61. # [13:51] <anne> which is not cheap, it's not that fast, but it's certainly cool
  62. # [13:51] <gsnedders> anne: you believe? :P
  63. # [13:51] <gsnedders> anne: it's far cheaper than what you get on some train operators in Britain
  64. # [13:51] <gsnedders> anne: and the trains are slower here too :)
  65. # [13:51] <anne> (then again, the listed prices didn't differ too much from average hotel charges for wifi)
  66. # [13:52] <anne> s/didn't/don't/
  67. # [13:52] <gsnedders> woah.
  68. # [13:53] <gsnedders> now that national express has taken over GNER, the wifi on the ECML is free!
  69. # [13:53] <Philip> There was free wireless when I was last on a train, though probably just because it was first class (via free tickets from someone)
  70. # [13:53] <gsnedders> Philip: yeah, most of the TOCs that have wifi have it free in 1st class
  71. # [13:53] * Quits: jgraham_ (james@81.86.217.3) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  72. # [13:55] * Philip isn't sure how they stop lower-class people using it
  73. # [13:56] * gsnedders doesn't explaining the physics behind it, but basically it's set up so those hubs only reach the buffet car at the very extreme
  74. # [13:57] <Philip> Oh, makes sense
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  76. # [14:00] <gsnedders> And, of course, you can't connect to a wireless network you don't have a signal for
  77. # [14:05] * Joins: Yudai (Yudai@59.146.9.126)
  78. # [14:06] <Philip> I have a MBP which has poor wireless reception and usually can't get any significant signal, but it sort of connects anyway and sometimes it can even transfer a few packets before dropping off :-)
  79. # [14:08] <gsnedders> Philip: Well, Al is known for absorbing radio signals :P
  80. # [14:10] <Philip> I should get around to setting up my other laptop (which has perfectly good reception from the same location) to do IP forwarding, and then hook up the MBP with a network cable so it can connect to the wireless network via some wires
  81. # [14:12] <Philip> That kind of harms mobility, but never mind that
  82. # [14:14] <anne> MikeSmith, I think hsivonen is already scraping info from the wiki, though I'm not entirely sure
  83. # [14:19] * Joins: jgraham_ (james@81.86.217.3)
  84. # [14:19] <hsivonen> anne: I scrape the microformat descriptions
  85. # [14:19] <hsivonen> (which means it's a problem when the wiki is down)
  86. # [14:26] <MikeSmith> anne, hsivonen - also I find this:
  87. # [14:27] <MikeSmith> Dec 12 19:01:58 <hsivonen> Hixie: Re: registry and Web Service: the service I use for microsyntax descriptions is that I take mediawiki text/html and scrape it
  88. # [14:27] * MikeSmith wonders why he can't find that in krijnh logs
  89. # [14:29] <MikeSmith> anne - you on your way to Linköping?
  90. # [14:36] <hsivonen> is there any up-to-date implementation report of SVG in Firefox 3 / Opera 9.5 / Safari 3?
  91. # [14:40] <anne> MikeSmith, no, from
  92. # [14:40] * Philip wonders how the +/- thing relates to "+//Silmaril//dtd html Pro v0r11 19970101//EN"
  93. # [14:41] <anne> hsivonen, our SVG documentation on the Wii is matches 9.5 pretty closely I'd expect
  94. # [14:41] <hsivonen> Philip: clearly, that's the most authorirative flavor of HTML
  95. # [14:41] <hsivonen> anne: thanks
  96. # [14:41] <gsnedders> Philip: theoretically Silmaril should be registered
  97. # [14:42] <hsivonen> anne: this page? http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/svg/
  98. # [14:42] <gsnedders> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/fdp-primer/sgml-primer-doctype-declaration.html looks like a good short description of it, actually
  99. # [14:43] <Philip> gsnedders: Ah, that looks useful
  100. # [14:44] <Philip> s/useful/informative though uselessly irrelevant to anything I'm likely to ever do/
  101. # [14:44] <hsivonen> anne: any opinion on which is more useful for authors: XHTML5+SVG 1.1 or XHTML5+SVG 1.2?
  102. # [14:46] <anne> not really
  103. # [14:46] <anne> I'm not part of the SVG crowd :)
  104. # [14:47] <hsivonen> it appears that SVG 1.2 Full has a schema that hasn't been updated in a while but no spec. what gives?
  105. # [14:48] <hsivonen> <!DOCTYPE grammar SYSTEM "../relaxng.dtd">
  106. # [14:48] <anne> interesting
  107. # [14:48] <hsivonen> that bit is *weird* in the W3C SVG 1.1 Full RNG files
  108. # [14:49] <anne> I wonder how they validate relaxng.dtd
  109. # [14:50] <anne> Apart from Opera most "desktop browsers" target 1.1. On the mobile market people want 1.2 tiny
  110. # [14:53] * MikeSmith reads Andy Clarke's "CSS Unworking Group" blog entry
  111. # [14:58] <hsivonen> anne: I guess I'll target 1.1 Full for now
  112. # [14:59] <hsivonen> anne: unless there's a good case why every author should target Tiny
  113. # [14:59] <anne> there are cases for features in tiny that are not in 1.1
  114. # [14:59] <anne> such as focusable="true"
  115. # [14:59] <hsivonen> hmm.
  116. # [15:00] <anne> maybe the validator should just target a mix
  117. # [15:00] <hsivonen> anne: wouldn't that make it SVG5?-)
  118. # [15:01] <anne> in a way it makes sense for validators to evolve alongside implementations instead of with specs
  119. # [15:01] <hsivonen> yes.
  120. # [15:01] <hsivonen> however, ATM, as far as HTML5 goes, the validator allows stuff that doesn't work in browsers
  121. # [15:03] <anne> yeah, just pondering
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  123. # [15:10] * Philip can't decide whether the X3D spec is ambiguous or is just hard to understand
  124. # [15:11] <hsivonen> what's the current practice when it comes to using XHTML in foreignObject? is a <body> or <div> wrapper a must?
  125. # [15:12] <hsivonen> I imagine people don't use an <html> wrapper despite what HTML5 says
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  130. # [15:32] <hsivonen> "veryverythickmathspace" no joke, I guess
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  133. # [15:35] <gsnedders> hsivonen: ?
  134. # [15:37] <Philip> http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML2/chapter3.html#id.3.3.4.2 ?
  135. # [15:47] <hsivonen> Philip: yeah
  136. # [15:52] <hsivonen> where was non-presentational MathML implmented so that the spec could proceed to REC
  137. # [15:53] * hsivonen wants single-page versions of W3C specs
  138. # [15:53] * hsivonen downloads PDF of the MathML spec
  139. # [15:54] <zcorpan> hsivonen: i think mathplayer2 supports non-presentational mathml
  140. # [15:54] <hsivonen> zcorpan: ok.
  141. # [15:55] <hsivonen> what I'm trying to learn is where MathML embeds further XML
  142. # [15:55] <hsivonen> so far, I've found annotation-xml
  143. # [15:55] <hsivonen> but I don't know how it works, yet
  144. # [15:55] <zcorpan> <semantics>?
  145. # [16:00] <hsivonen> hmm. does MathML inherit its definition of ID from XML 1.0 or from XSD or something?
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  147. # [16:00] <hsivonen> zcorpan: I don't understand the content model of <semantics>, yet
  148. # [16:04] <hsivonen> hmm. interesting. the MathML spec has a RELAX NG-esque grammar that predates RELAX NG
  149. # [16:05] <hsivonen> I'm going to assume that annotation-xml is the only extension point
  150. # [16:08] <hsivonen> aargh. annotation-xml needs a MathML5 badly
  151. # [16:15] * Philip wonders if there is any existing spec that doesn't need a version 5
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  153. # [16:26] * hsivonen considers a Web schema with a choice of html and svg root element
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  170. # [19:03] * Philip tries implementing quaternion maths in JS, which should be fun
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  173. # [20:09] * hsivonen downloaded Trang sources, found the bug
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The end :)