/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-12-16 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Sun Dec 16 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:24] * Joins: mjs (mjs@64.81.48.145)
  4. # [00:43] * Quits: marcos (chatzilla@124.171.193.225) (Client exited)
  5. # [00:43] * Quits: sbuluf (xxzks@200.49.132.101) (Ping timeout)
  6. # [00:59] * Joins: sbuluf (qvrybg@200.49.132.125)
  7. # [01:02] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  8. # [01:35] * Joins: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.101)
  9. # [01:36] * Quits: hasather (hasather@90.231.107.133) (Quit: leaving)
  10. # [01:40] * Parts: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.101)
  11. # [01:49] * Joins: dean5 (opera@121.72.5.121)
  12. # [02:04] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  13. # [02:48] * Quits: tH (Rob@87.102.85.165) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508])
  14. # [06:59] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  15. # [06:59] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Client exited)
  16. # [06:59] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  17. # [07:15] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  18. # [10:03] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  19. # [10:29] * Quits: wilhelm (wilhelm@129.241.93.37) (Ping timeout)
  20. # [10:29] * Quits: hsivonen (hsivonen@130.233.41.50) (Ping timeout)
  21. # [10:29] * Quits: jmb (jmb@152.78.68.189) (Ping timeout)
  22. # [10:31] * Joins: wilhelm (wilhelm@129.241.93.37)
  23. # [10:31] * Joins: hsivonen (hsivonen@130.233.41.50)
  24. # [10:39] * Joins: jmb (jmb@152.78.68.189)
  25. # [11:05] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  26. # [11:26] * Joins: anne-mac (annevk@80.202.68.88)
  27. # [11:34] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Quit: Leaving)
  28. # [11:34] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  29. # [12:02] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  30. # [12:16] * Quits: anne-mac (annevk@80.202.68.88) (Ping timeout)
  31. # [12:19] * Joins: hasather (hasather@90.231.107.133)
  32. # [12:24] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  33. # [12:29] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Quit: Leaving)
  34. # [12:30] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  35. # [12:45] * Quits: jgraham_ (james@81.86.217.3) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  36. # [12:45] * Joins: jgraham_ (james@81.86.217.3)
  37. # [13:23] * Joins: tH (Rob@87.102.85.165)
  38. # [13:23] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  39. # [13:32] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Connection reset by peer)
  40. # [13:38] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  41. # [13:40] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  42. # [13:41] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@86.135.224.200)
  43. # [13:59] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203) (Ping timeout)
  44. # [14:05] * Joins: anne-mac (annevk@193.214.121.131)
  45. # [14:11] * Quits: jgraham_ (james@81.86.217.3) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  46. # [14:12] * Joins: jgraham_ (james@81.86.217.3)
  47. # [14:52] * Quits: anne-mac (annevk@193.214.121.131) (Ping timeout)
  48. # [14:53] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Quit: Leaving)
  49. # [15:05] * Quits: jgraham_ (james@81.86.217.3) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  50. # [15:06] * Joins: jgraham_ (james@81.86.217.3)
  51. # [15:06] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  52. # [15:14] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Quit: Leaving)
  53. # [15:23] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  54. # [15:50] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  55. # [16:07] * Joins: myakura (myakura@118.6.146.12)
  56. # [16:42] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  57. # [16:46] * Parts: dean5 (opera@121.72.5.121)
  58. # [16:56] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Quit: Leaving)
  59. # [17:58] * Quits: myakura (myakura@118.6.146.12) (Quit: Leaving...)
  60. # [18:32] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149)
  61. # [18:36] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  62. # [18:46] * Joins: anne-mac (annevk@82.156.27.18)
  63. # [18:52] * Parts: anne-mac (annevk@82.156.27.18)
  64. # [18:52] * Joins: anne-mac (annevk@82.156.27.18)
  65. # [18:58] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203) (Ping timeout)
  66. # [19:26] * Quits: anne-mac (annevk@82.156.27.18) (Ping timeout)
  67. # [20:00] <Philip> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/16/1656245
  68. # [20:01] <gsnedders> wow. all my comments are +2
  69. # [20:05] <mjs> uncertain?
  70. # [20:05] <mjs> whether browsers will go with HTML5 or XHTML2?
  71. # [20:06] <Dashiva> mjf: Well, I don't recall any official statements
  72. # [20:06] <Dashiva> *mjs
  73. # [20:06] <Philip> The article is a month old
  74. # [20:06] <mjs> I think there are pretty clear statements about XHTML2 :-)
  75. # [20:08] <Philip> Maybe Microsoft will support XHTML2 in IE8 and it will become the new de facto standard on the web
  76. # [20:10] <mjs> I suppose I can't rule that out
  77. # [20:10] <Dashiva> mjs: Sure, by rogue developers who can't be held accountable when the real decision if publicized :P
  78. # [20:11] * Joins: edas (edaspet@82.233.238.50)
  79. # [20:11] <Dashiva> I keep typing f instead of s
  80. # [20:12] <Philip> The keys are not even like right next to each other
  81. # [20:33] <hober> Dashiva: maybe you're trying to type ſ
  82. # [20:44] * Joins: anne-mac (annevk@82.156.27.18)
  83. # [20:49] * Quits: Thezilch (fuz007@68.111.154.116) (Connection reset by peer)
  84. # [20:55] <Philip> http://philip.html5.org/demos/canvas/3d/x3d/test.xhtml - yay, XML
  85. # [20:55] <Philip> Uh, why does Opera 9.2 say "Error: unexpected end-of-file"?
  86. # [20:58] <Philip> hsivonen: Is there any way your validator could handle inline X3D (in a non-standard namespace, plus non-standard extensions) without much pain?
  87. # [21:13] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  88. # [22:05] * Joins: timbl (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  89. # [22:12] * Quits: edas (edaspet@82.233.238.50) (Quit: Quitte)
  90. # [22:18] <gsnedders> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=390646&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=nested&pid=21718278
  91. # [22:18] * Joins: timbl_ (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  92. # [22:18] <gsnedders> can someone reply to one or those?
  93. # [22:20] * Quits: timbl (timbl@209.6.134.246) (Ping timeout)
  94. # [22:22] <Philip> gsnedders: "someone" != you?
  95. # [22:22] <gsnedders> Philip: yeah :P
  96. # [22:23] <gsnedders> Philip: I'm about to run off and get stuff ready for school tomorrow, and not come back for a while.
  97. # [22:23] <anne-mac> "DTDs are dead and DOCTYPEs are not relevant except for some obscure things that are not related to this discussion. They were also never intended for any kind of versioning."
  98. # [22:23] <anne-mac> there
  99. # [22:23] <gsnedders> Also part two of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2000Sep/0024.html
  100. # [22:23] * Philip wonders how many XHTML documents invalidly fail to use a DOCTYPE
  101. # [22:24] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  102. # [22:24] <Philip> Oops, s/invalidly/not-strictly-conformingly/ which maybe isn't a very interesting concept to care about
  103. # [22:25] <gsnedders> should I just throw together a shit reply? :P
  104. # [22:26] <anne-mac> that probably doesn't help anyone
  105. # [22:26] <gsnedders> I'll see what I can do quickly, though
  106. # [22:30] <gsnedders> "Also, a DOCTYPE is only required in a strictly-conforming XHTML documents, and the UA requirements for XHTML documents cover those that aren't strictly-conforming (and therefore ones that don't have a DOCTYPE — if you don't have a DOCTYPE (which is also the case in fragments such as within Atom documents) you have nothing to branch on)."
  107. # [22:30] <gsnedders> that sound all right?
  108. # [22:31] <Philip> And there's no DOCTYPE if you're e.g. embedding XHTML into RSS
  109. # [22:32] <Philip> Oh wait, you already said that
  110. # [22:32] * Philip should probably read first
  111. # [22:32] <gsnedders> you can't embed XHTML into RSS :P
  112. # [22:32] <Philip> I imagine there are lots of things you can't do in RSS that people do anyway :-)
  113. # [22:32] <gsnedders> not really.
  114. # [22:32] <gsnedders> Most things that can't be done natively are done through namespaces.
  115. # [22:32] <gsnedders> But that's for another day :)
  116. # [22:34] * Philip wonders why his XSLT is defaulting to HTML output
  117. # [22:34] <gsnedders> "Please look up what validity actually means: the primary difference is that a document means requirements set out in a DTD as well as being well-formed (which means there is very little difference if no DOCTYPE is specified, and a DOCTYPE is purely optional in XML). Also, there are both validating and non-validating XML parsers (section 5.1, XML 1.0) — only the latter actually checks a document is valid, and all major XHTML processors use non-valida
  118. # [22:34] <gsnedders> that all right?
  119. # [22:35] <Philip> s/means/meets/
  120. # [22:35] * gsnedders should follow his father's advice of proof reading sentences in reverse order so you don't just read the meaning
  121. # [22:36] <gsnedders> (as it doesn't mean anything backwards)
  122. # [22:37] <gsnedders> what's the other word pronounced the same as bear?
  123. # [22:38] <gsnedders> (why don't we just write everything in the IPA — it'd be so much easier)
  124. # [22:39] <Philip> Bare?
  125. # [22:39] <gsnedders> yeah
  126. # [22:46] <gsnedders> anne-mac: what are DOCTYPEs relevant for anyway? anything apart from quirks/standards mode?
  127. # [22:47] <Philip> They're relevant for validation
  128. # [22:48] <gsnedders> I guess, but less and less specs are actually using DOCTYPEs now anyway.
  129. # [22:48] <gsnedders> (or fewer, even)
  130. # [22:49] <tH> legacy validation ;)
  131. # [22:50] <gsnedders> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=390646&cid=21720090
  132. # [22:50] * Parts: timbl_ (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  133. # [22:52] * gsnedders laughs at "HTML isn't supposed to be WYSIWYG. If you want traditional graphic design, make a PDF."
  134. # [22:56] * Quits: anne-mac (annevk@82.156.27.18) (Ping timeout)
  135. # [22:59] * Parts: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  136. # [23:02] <Philip> <x3dext:Inline DEF="inline1" url="monkeybox.x3d#OB_Suzanne">
  137. # [23:02] <Philip> <xsl:template match="x3d:Transform/@translation">
  138. # [23:02] <Philip> <xsl:attribute name="translation">-4 2.5 0.2</xsl:attribute>
  139. # [23:02] <Philip> </xsl:template>
  140. # [23:02] <Philip> </x3dext:Inline>
  141. # [23:02] <Philip> Hmm, is that non-ugly enough, or would there be a nicer way of doing this kind of thing?
  142. # [23:02] <Philip> (where "this kind of thing" means "importing an external document and making some changes to it")
  143. # [23:12] * Quits: hober (ted@68.101.220.172) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs))
  144. # [23:12] <Philip> Does Opera not support Document.cloneNode?
  145. # [23:12] * Joins: timbl__ (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  146. # [23:13] <Philip> (I seem to get NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR)
  147. # [23:14] <Philip> DOM says "cloning Document, DocumentType, Entity, and Notation nodes is implementation dependent" which sounds annoying
  148. # [23:22] <Philip> gsnedders: By the way, it should be "bear in mind" rather than "bare in mind" :-)
  149. # [23:22] <gsnedders> Oh goddamnit.
  150. # [23:39] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12) (Ping timeout)
  151. # [23:44] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.227.30.12)
  152. # [23:49] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.41.149) (Quit: Leaving)
  153. # Session Close: Mon Dec 17 00:00:00 2007

The end :)