/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-12-28 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Fri Dec 28 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:02] * gsnedders makes an explosion happen near Philip. louder now?
  4. # [00:04] <Philip> gsnedders: My peril-sensitive earplugs filtered out the explosion
  5. # [00:09] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Ping timeout)
  6. # [00:09] <gsnedders> Philip: <http://stephenfry.com/blog/?p=32#comment-2344> — that you?
  7. # [00:13] <Philip> gsnedders: Yes
  8. # [00:13] <Philip> (Took a long time to get through moderation, it seems)
  9. # [00:13] <gsnedders> for mine too
  10. # [00:13] <gsnedders> pedantic point: MPEG4 isn't based on .mov, but rather MPEG4-Part 12 (ISO Base Media Container) is based on .mov
  11. # [00:14] <gsnedders> and what major companies have used Ogg?
  12. # [00:15] <Philip> Microsoft has distributed games with Ogg (Vorbis)
  13. # [00:15] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  14. # [00:15] <gsnedders> I was aware of them using games with Vorbis, but with Ogg too?
  15. # [00:16] * Joins: sbuluf (zbhlvn@200.49.132.78)
  16. # [00:16] <Philip> http://www.postneo.com/2003/10/14/halo-for-pc-uses-ogg-vorbis
  17. # [00:16] <gsnedders> hmm, UE 2.5 uses the Ogg container too
  18. # [00:16] <Philip> http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=583980&page=10 has ogg.dll too
  19. # [00:17] <Philip> (via Unreal Engine, I think)
  20. # [00:17] <gsnedders> http://www.unrealtechnology.com/features.php?ref=audio is a better link, really
  21. # [00:17] <gsnedders> Philip: UE2.5+ uses Vorbis, and so it seems Ogg too
  22. # [00:17] <gsnedders> UE2.0 used MP3 IIRC
  23. # [00:17] <gsnedders> GTA:SA does too
  24. # [00:18] <gsnedders> Then I was wrong in saying there weren't major users of Ogg
  25. # [00:21] <gsnedders> yeah, Halo does on Mac too
  26. # [00:21] * gsnedders actually grep'd through the binary to see if it actually did
  27. # [00:22] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Ping timeout)
  28. # [00:23] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  29. # [00:42] * Joins: jdandrea (jdandrea@68.192.161.254)
  30. # [00:46] * Joins: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30)
  31. # [01:06] * Quits: tH (Rob@83.100.183.125) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508])
  32. # [01:21] * Quits: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.156) (Quit: .)
  33. # [01:29] * Quits: Greyfox (greyfox@66.195.32.2) (Quit: Leaving)
  34. # [01:46] * Joins: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.154.87.254)
  35. # [01:46] * Joins: jgraham (james@86.7.213.72)
  36. # [01:47] * Quits: jdandrea (jdandrea@68.192.161.254) (Quit: jdandrea)
  37. # [01:57] * Quits: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30) (Quit: Leaving)
  38. # [02:05] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  39. # [02:30] * Quits: jgraham (james@86.7.213.72) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  40. # [02:32] * Joins: jgraham (james@86.7.213.72)
  41. # [02:36] * Quits: jgraham (james@86.7.213.72) (Ping timeout)
  42. # [02:47] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Quit: Leaving)
  43. # [02:52] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@88.91.105.112)
  44. # [02:55] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@88.91.105.112) (Ping timeout)
  45. # [03:04] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  46. # [03:05] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Connection reset by peer)
  47. # [03:05] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  48. # [03:06] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Connection reset by peer)
  49. # [03:06] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  50. # [03:07] * Joins: mjs (mjs@67.41.200.69)
  51. # [03:13] * Joins: Lachy__ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  52. # [03:13] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Connection reset by peer)
  53. # [03:19] * Quits: Lachy__ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Connection reset by peer)
  54. # [03:19] * Joins: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  55. # [03:30] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Ping timeout)
  56. # [03:36] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  57. # [04:07] * Joins: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30)
  58. # [04:33] * Quits: mjs (mjs@67.41.200.69) (Quit: mjs)
  59. # [04:53] * Joins: dedridge (opera@121.72.45.36)
  60. # [04:53] * Quits: dedridge (opera@121.72.45.36) (Client exited)
  61. # [04:55] * Joins: dedridge (opera@121.72.45.36)
  62. # [04:56] * Quits: dedridge (opera@121.72.45.36) (Quit: dedridge)
  63. # [05:12] * Joins: hober (ted@68.101.220.172)
  64. # [05:29] * Joins: myakura (myakura@124.102.78.218)
  65. # [08:26] * Quits: hober (ted@68.101.220.172) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs))
  66. # [09:04] * Quits: olivier (ot@128.30.52.30) (Quit: Leaving)
  67. # [10:10] * Parts: anne (annevk@83.82.206.111)
  68. # [10:10] * Joins: anne (annevk@83.82.206.111)
  69. # [10:11] * Quits: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.154.87.254) (Quit: Leaving)
  70. # [10:28] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  71. # [10:41] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  72. # [10:48] * Quits: jmb (jmb@152.78.68.189) (Ping timeout)
  73. # [10:48] * Joins: jmb (jmb@152.78.68.189)
  74. # [10:53] * Quits: myakura (myakura@124.102.78.218) (Ping timeout)
  75. # [11:02] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22)
  76. # [11:02] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Leaving)
  77. # [11:03] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22)
  78. # [11:35] * Joins: jgraham (james@86.7.213.72)
  79. # [11:55] * Quits: jgraham (james@86.7.213.72) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  80. # [11:55] * Quits: sbuluf (zbhlvn@200.49.132.78) (Ping timeout)
  81. # [12:30] * Joins: laplink (link@62.63.46.180)
  82. # [12:38] * Joins: myakura (myakura@124.102.78.218)
  83. # [12:39] * Joins: tH_ (Rob@83.100.183.125)
  84. # [12:39] * tH_ is now known as tH
  85. # [12:43] * Joins: jgraham (james@86.7.213.72)
  86. # [12:48] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  87. # [13:49] * Quits: laplink (link@62.63.46.180) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  88. # [13:54] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  89. # [14:09] * Joins: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233)
  90. # [14:28] * Joins: laplink (link@62.63.46.180)
  91. # [14:49] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  92. # [15:04] * Quits: laplink (link@62.63.46.180) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  93. # [15:23] * Joins: laplink (link@62.63.46.180)
  94. # [17:00] * Joins: timbl (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  95. # [17:10] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  96. # [17:22] * Quits: DanC (connolly@128.30.52.30) (Quit: Leaving)
  97. # [19:33] * Disconnected
  98. # [19:33] * Attempting to rejoin channel #html-wg
  99. # [19:33] * Rejoined channel #html-wg
  100. # [19:33] * Topic is 'HTML WG meets 10 Jan; expects to publish HTML 5 spec 22 Jan http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda (logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ ) '
  101. # [19:33] * Set by DanC on Fri Dec 21 01:12:05
  102. # [19:33] <jgraham> Philip: Well unicode eventually. But the question is whether to use plain C strings and lots of manual malloc+free or use some string library that takes away a bit of the pain
  103. # [19:34] * Philip would use C++ and std::string :-)
  104. # [19:34] * gsnedders would use Obj-C and OpenStep's NSString :)
  105. # [19:34] <jgraham> Yeah, I guess just writing in C++ from the start might be the way forward
  106. # [19:34] <jgraham> Obj-C is probably too esoteric
  107. # [19:35] <gsnedders> I will probably write an impl in Obj-C sometime
  108. # [19:35] <Philip> Even with string libraries in C, you'd have to worry about explicitly maintaining reference counts
  109. # [19:35] <gsnedders> (if someone from Apple doesn't beat me to it)
  110. # [19:35] <gsnedders> (well, there was a closed-source Obj-C impl)
  111. # [19:36] <Philip> (whereas C++ can handle resource allocation automatically, with destructors and copy constructors and whatever)
  112. # [19:36] * jgraham was hoping to start out in plain C for the input stream and tokeniser and then write the treebuilder in C++
  113. # [19:37] <jgraham> Though there is not much logic behind that plan
  114. # [19:37] * Philip still suggests using his OCaml tokeniser-generator to create the tokeniser state machine rather than rewriting it all by hand :-)
  115. # [19:38] * Quits: anne (annevk@83.82.206.111) (Ping timeout)
  116. # [19:38] <Philip> (That reminds me that I need to try making a treebuilder-generator some time...)
  117. # [19:39] * jgraham thinks that is quite sensible although wonders if it would reduce the pedagogical value
  118. # [19:40] <Philip> I think the input stream / tokeniser has fairly simple usage of strings - all it does is create new strings for tokens, append characters to them, then emit the token and let someone else clean it up when they're finished
  119. # [19:40] <Philip> so plain C ought to be able to handle it without excessive pain
  120. # [19:40] * Parts: timbl_ (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  121. # [19:40] * Quits: laplink (link@62.63.46.180) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  122. # [19:41] <jgraham> It's the cleaning up that scares me. Possibly the problem is that I'm jut not used to low-level programming
  123. # [19:42] <Philip> But the cleaning up is somebody else's problem ;-)
  124. # [19:42] <jgraham> Whose?
  125. # [19:42] <Philip> ...at least until you try writing the tree construction algorithm, and then it's your problem again
  126. # [19:42] <jgraham> Yeah...
  127. # [19:44] <Philip> It's often not particularly difficult as long as you can be clear about what 'owns' a particular object, because you just make sure the owner deallocates it before the owner itself is deallocated
  128. # [19:44] * Quits: Lachy_ (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Connection reset by peer)
  129. # [19:45] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  130. # [19:45] <Philip> Also, have lots of test cases and use Valgrind :-)
  131. # [19:47] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Quit: Leaving)
  132. # [19:48] * gsnedders gets confused by client[XY] and screen[XY] in MouseEvent
  133. # [19:48] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  134. # [19:50] <gsnedders> how can you use initMouseEvent without knowing where the browser is on the screen!? :\
  135. # [19:52] <gsnedders> oh. you dispatch an event on a specific method
  136. # [19:52] <gsnedders> that makes sense.
  137. # [20:02] * Quits: Greyfox (greyfox@66.195.32.2) (Quit: Leaving)
  138. # [20:13] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100) (Ping timeout)
  139. # [20:20] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  140. # [20:31] * Joins: timbl_ (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  141. # [20:34] * Joins: timbl__ (timbl@209.6.134.246)
  142. # [20:34] * Quits: timbl_ (timbl@209.6.134.246) (Connection reset by peer)
  143. # [20:42] * Joins: jdandrea (jdandrea@24.228.42.231)
  144. # [21:51] * Joins: osiris (opera@84.215.119.246)
  145. # [22:00] * Quits: myakura (myakura@124.102.78.218) (Quit: Leaving...)
  146. # [22:11] * Quits: timbl__ (timbl@209.6.134.246) (Ping timeout)
  147. # [22:30] <Philip> Is there a way to make an HTML element 'transparent' to mouse events?
  148. # [22:30] <Philip> (so e.g. I could have a semi-transparent <canvas> on top of an <iframe>, and the user can interact with the iframe)
  149. # [22:30] * Joins: laplink (link@193.157.66.108)
  150. # [22:39] <Hixie> jgraham: oh i definitely agree that we need tests, i'm just concerned about people writing tests for unstable sections and then not updating them
  151. # [22:39] <Hixie> when the spec changes
  152. # [22:51] <gsnedders> Oh no. I'm crying my eyes out at Netscape being dead.
  153. # [22:56] <jgraham> Hixie: Yeah, I should have been more specific
  154. # [22:59] * Quits: jdandrea (jdandrea@24.228.42.231) (Quit: jdandrea)
  155. # [23:08] * Quits: laplink (link@193.157.66.108) (Quit: Leaving)
  156. # [23:09] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  157. # [23:15] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@72.94.185.124)
  158. # [23:41] * Quits: Thezilch (fuz007@68.111.154.116) (Connection reset by peer)
  159. # Session Close: Sat Dec 29 00:00:00 2007

The end :)