/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-01-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jan 02 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  6. # [00:27] <anne> Hixie, Acid3 doesn't work by default if a browser has a minimum font-size setting
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  13. # [01:00] <Hixie> anne: that's probably a bug in the minimum font-size code. there's no text at 0px.
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  32. # [09:54] <anne> Hixie, hmm, ok
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  63. # [15:14] * Topic is 'HTML WG meets 10 Jan; expects to publish HTML 5 spec 22 Jan http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda (logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ ) '
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  87. # [19:29] <anne> Hixie, how about adding some SVG stuff to Acid3?
  88. # [19:29] <anne> Hixie, maybe even combined with background:url()
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  111. # [21:24] <nickshanks> Hixie: use grey instead of gray
  112. # [21:42] <anne> which browser fails that?
  113. # [21:43] <Philip> What defines the meaning of "grey"?
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  117. # [21:58] <mjs> CSS requires both "grey" and "gray" to be supported, doesn't it?
  118. # [21:59] <gsnedders> mjs: CSS 2.1? No. CSS3 Color Module? Yes.
  119. # [22:01] <anne> CSS 2.1 is not relevant with respect to colors anymore
  120. # [22:02] <anne> mjs, getComputedStyle isn't really the computed style in most browsers...
  121. # [22:02] <Philip> CSS3 Colo(u)r Module isn't old enough to be in Acid3, I guess
  122. # [22:02] <anne> it is
  123. # [22:03] <anne> it's already tested in Acid3
  124. # [22:03] <Philip> Oh, okay
  125. # [22:03] * Philip had forgotten that it's been CR for years
  126. # [22:05] <mjs> anne: DOM2 CSS says it should be the "computed style"
  127. # [22:05] <mjs> anne: but it references CSS2, which didn't have the CSS 2.1 distinction between "computed style" and "used style"
  128. # [22:05] <Philip> There's various CSS3 Color things that various browsers get wrong, in case that's helpful
  129. # [22:06] <anne> mjs, for the 'width' property for instance browsers return the width in px units, where they "should" return it in absolute units (mm for instance)
  130. # [22:06] <mjs> I think in any case where there is a difference, it would be more useful for it to return the "used style", but I also don't see why CSS 2.1 even draws a distinction
  131. # [22:06] <Philip> (2d.fillStyle.parse.* on http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/results.html)
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  133. # [22:08] <Philip> color:flavor is slightly hard to test since its meaning is basically undefined :-(
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  135. # [22:09] <anne> i think it might get dropped
  136. # [22:11] * Philip wouldn't mind if they dropped the ABC code and added some conformance requirements and described the syntax with more than just the examples too
  137. # [22:11] <anne> ABC code?
  138. # [22:12] <Philip> "HOW TO RETURN hsl.to.rgb(h, s, l):" etc
  139. # [22:12] <Philip> under http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#hsl-color
  140. # [22:13] <anne> i see
  141. # [22:13] <anne> www-style@w3.org ?
  142. # [22:14] <Philip> Is the document likely to be edited at any time in the forseeable future?
  143. # [22:14] <anne> there's a chance
  144. # [22:14] <anne> dbaron invested time in making a test suite for it
  145. # [22:14] <anne> i guess you could edit if if you joined the CSS WG somehow...
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  148. # [22:29] <Philip> Ah, nice, I hadn't seen that test suite before
  149. # [22:30] * Philip will probably try to look at this stuff at some point in the future when he's sufficiently unmotivated by anything else
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  151. # [22:40] <nickshanks> Philip: that hsl colour table uses ¡ instead of ° in the headings above each table
  152. # [22:41] <nickshanks> e.g. "30¡ Red-Yellow (=Orange)"
  153. # [22:41] <Philip> Hmm, odd
  154. # [22:41] <Philip> It looks like it's using &iexcl; intentionally
  155. # [22:42] <nickshanks> shouldn't it be 30&deg;
  156. # [22:43] <Philip> I would have thought so
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  165. # [23:44] <anne> finally
  166. # [23:45] <anne> my DOCTYPE switching testing framework works
  167. # [23:45] <Philip> Is that for testing which doctypes triggers standards/quirks?
  168. # [23:46] <anne> yup
  169. # [23:46] <Philip> (presumably for IE in particular)
  170. # [23:46] <anne> no
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  172. # [23:46] <anne> i'm not even sure it works in IE
  173. # [23:46] <Philip> Oh
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  175. # [23:46] <Philip> IE is the most in need of reverse-engineering to work out what triggers it uses
  176. # [23:47] <anne> i think they should do what HTML5 suggests
  177. # [23:47] <anne> their current behavior is silly
  178. # [23:47] <hsivonen> anne: the Gecko and WebKit behavior is no secret
  179. # [23:47] <anne> hsivonen, I know?
  180. # [23:47] <Philip> (because of IE's crazy <!doctype netsc> and everything)
  181. # [23:48] <hsivonen> anne: It isn't at all clear to me what it is you intend to test
  182. # [23:48] * Philip wonders if there was a technical reason for them using "netsc" rather than "netscape"
  183. # [23:48] <anne> that browsers trigger the same type of quirks mode for the same input
  184. # [23:49] <anne> that is, quirks mode, no quirks mode, or limited quirks mode
  185. # [23:50] <hsivonen> anne: assuming that Opera folks can see Opera source and everyone can see Gecko and WebKit source, and you said it may not even work in IE, wouldn't a "by inspection" method work better than a testing framework method?
  186. # [23:50] <anne> that doesn't help catch regressions
  187. # [23:50] <hsivonen> ah. ok
  188. # [23:51] <mjs> You can see from code inspection what modes Gecko and WebKit trigger for what UA strings, but not necessarily what quirks happen in each mode
  189. # [23:51] <mjs> or rather
  190. # [23:51] <gsnedders> anne: what do you actually do at Opera, BTW?
  191. # [23:51] <mjs> you can discover the latter but it is probably confusing to do so
  192. # [23:51] * gsnedders realises he has never known
  193. # [23:51] <mjs> I wouldn't mind having doctype switch regression tests
  194. # [23:51] * anne works on standards
  195. # [23:51] <mjs> although we're unlikely to ever change that code
  196. # [23:51] <mjs> except maybe to merge standards and almost standards if that ever gets fixed in CSS
  197. # [23:51] <gsnedders> anne: working on them as in writing them?
  198. # [23:52] <anne> gsnedders, among other things, yes
  199. # [23:53] <anne> mjs, so I'd like for all browsers to converge on the same quirks, and trigger modes based on the same DOCTYPE...
  200. # [23:53] <anne> (HTML5 sort of covers the latter, hopefully CSS at some point will cover the former)
  201. # [23:54] * hsivonen mumbles something about Opera and ISO doctypes for which Gecko and WebKit behavior was well documented
  202. # [23:54] <mjs> Gecko and WebKit do trigger modes on the same doctypes, and we have the same single quirk in almost standards mode
  203. # [23:54] <mjs> I don't think the sets of quirks mode quirks are identical but they are likely pretty similar
  204. # [23:54] <hsivonen> last time I checked, Gecko and WebKit differed by one obscure doctype, but I haven't rechecked in a while
  205. # [23:55] <mjs> if we differ, it's probably a bug in the WebKit doctype check code
  206. # [23:55] <anne> ah, CSS 2.0 computed value was more like used value...
  207. # [23:58] <mjs> yes
  208. # [23:58] <mjs> I don't understand why CSS 2.1 created the distinction
  209. # Session Close: Thu Jan 03 00:00:00 2008

The end :)