/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-01-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jan 08 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:01] <Philip> anne: Why does the spec need to be accurate? Isn't it sufficient to be compatible with the other implementations, regardless of what the spec says?
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  6. # [00:07] <anne> Philip, in the end, yes
  7. # [00:08] <Philip> anne: What about in the beginning? :-)
  8. # [00:09] <anne> we need a spec to get there :)
  9. # [00:14] <Philip> It looks like the difficulties would just be in stroking (since it's affected by the stroke-time transform matrix) and pattern/gradient fills, I think
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  11. # [00:15] <Philip> ...and maybe isPointInPath
  12. # [00:15] <Philip> and theoretically shadows except they're not specified at all or implemented much
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  74. # [12:05] <anne> hsivonen, if we're going to make a spec for DTD public identifiers we might as well extend the overall list of default XML entities...
  75. # [12:05] <anne> re: #whatwg, which I still can't get on... (hopefully fixed within a week or so)
  76. # [12:07] <hsivonen> anne: changing default entities is changing XML itself and not backwards-compatible
  77. # [12:07] <hsivonen> anne: grandfathering the Gecko bogo-DTD catalog is backwards-compatible and hacks the entity resolver--not the XML processor
  78. # [12:08] <anne> it's not backwards compatible because you can't redefine the entities and there might be DTDs out there that use these entity names in different ways?
  79. # [12:09] * anne thinks that's rather obscure as far as the Web is concerned
  80. # [12:09] <hsivonen> anne: if you have a DTD that uses the entity names in a different way, presumably you have a different public id
  81. # [12:10] <hsivonen> anne: when a public id doesn't match the list of magic ones, Gecko resolves it to a zero-length DTD
  82. # [12:10] <hsivonen> anne: hence, the XML parser throws the YSoD
  83. # [12:10] <hsivonen> anne: so using non-magic public ids and entity references is seriously not Web-compatible
  84. # [12:10] <anne> I like Opera's behavior better for those cases...
  85. # [12:11] <anne> well, if that's the case why is introducing more default entity references a Web-compat issue?
  86. # [12:11] <anne> oh, it's not backwards compatible, I see
  87. # [12:12] <hsivonen> anne: existing Gecko installations would throw up the YSoD
  88. # [12:12] * anne doesn't think that's much of a problem for XML which is not really widely deployed anyway
  89. # [12:12] <hsivonen> anne: and all vanilla XML parsers in non-browser apps would catch fire, too
  90. # [12:13] <hsivonen> anne: well, non-MathML builds of Netscape 6 and Camino used to have a different magic list and it did cause observable YSoDs
  91. # [12:13] <anne> I know
  92. # [12:14] <anne> I researched those issues together with Jacques Distler back in the days :)
  93. # [12:19] <anne> I even improved the situation somewhat: http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsview2.cgi?diff_mode=context&whitespace_mode=show&file=nsExpatDriver.cpp&branch=3.106&root=/cvsroot&subdir=mozilla/parser/htmlparser/src&command=DIFF_FRAMESET&rev1=3.68&rev2=3.69
  94. # [12:19] <anne> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=287244
  95. # [12:23] <hsivonen> anne: looks like I've tampered with that stuff, too: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113400
  96. # [12:25] <anne> "However, due to the character issues, I think loading a local DTD for XHTML + MahtML makes sense. I only hope it doesn't cause problems later on.)"
  97. # [12:26] <anne> oops
  98. # [12:27] <anne> ah, that was also the bug where they introduced the public identifier for SVG which I removed later on...
  99. # [12:39] <hsivonen> In my defense, the DTD catalog in general was already there
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The end :)