/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-01-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jan 21 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  35. # [12:10] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - it appears that Michael Koch has uploaded a Saxon 9 package to the Debian New queue
  36. # [12:10] <MikeSmith> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/saxonb_9.0-1.html
  37. # [12:10] <MikeSmith> libsaxonb-java - The Saxon-B XSLT Processor
  38. # [12:11] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: ok. I'll look into patching Saxon for column numbers today
  39. # [12:12] <MikeSmith> great. I could be a couple days before it actually is apt-gettable
  40. # [12:12] <MikeSmith> I don't know how long the lag is
  41. # [12:12] <MikeSmith> but the license seems to be the Mozilla license
  42. # [12:13] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: MPL 1.0 even
  43. # [12:17] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - btw, the reply I got from Karl Berry about URIs in GNU-formatted error messages makes me wonder if Emacs might actually be smart enough already to correctly parse error messages with source-file-name parts that are URIs or that otherwise contain colon characters
  44. # [12:17] <MikeSmith> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-standards/2008-01/msg00001.html
  45. # [12:18] <MikeSmith> especially if the messages contain column numbers as well as line numbers
  46. # [12:18] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: thanks
  47. # [12:18] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I guess that's enough to write an experimental GNU output class
  48. # [12:18] <MikeSmith> cool
  49. # [12:21] <MikeSmith> but at least one case I can see that would be ambiguous is what it would do with a line-number-only message containing a URI with a port number in it
  50. # [12:21] <MikeSmith> e.g., http://foo.com:8080:5: Error;bar
  51. # [12:21] <hsivonen> yeah
  52. # [12:22] <MikeSmith> anyway, when I have time, I'll mess around with testing it in Vim too
  53. # [12:22] <hsivonen> btw, how wrong can I go if I use Saxon 9 to back Schematron 1.5? have XPath semantics changed?
  54. # [12:23] <MikeSmith> dunno. I guess it'd be backward compatible in that regard
  55. # [12:23] <MikeSmith> but not sure
  56. # [12:23] <MikeSmith> place to ask would be on xsl-list I guess
  57. # [12:23] <MikeSmith> probably get a reply from Michael Kay
  58. # [12:25] <hsivonen> hmm. I'm not subscribed but xml-dev might be good enough
  59. # [12:28] <MikeSmith> I see #xsl or #xslt channels on Freenode, but they look very underpopulated
  60. # [12:29] <hsivonen> Hmm. Wikipedia talks about "XPath 1.0 compatibility mode" in Saxon 9
  61. # [12:30] * MikeSmith wonders what it says about the online culture around a major programming language if it doesn't have an active IRC channel
  62. # [12:30] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - that makes sense
  63. # [12:30] <hsivonen> hmm. Saxon-SA has some cool feature points
  64. # [12:31] <hsivonen> personally, I'd care more about the query optimizer and streaming than about schema-awareness
  65. # [12:32] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - you don't think XML Schema and PSVI support are cool feature points? :)
  66. # [12:32] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I don't
  67. # [12:33] <MikeSmith> yeah, somehow I figured you might not. I'm not sure how much I'd like to talk with the people who do...
  68. # [12:40] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I sent my question to xml-dev
  69. # [12:41] <hsivonen> so many jars... import java.ecosystem.*
  70. # [12:46] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - it seems like implementing a work-alike for validator.nu in any language other that Java is going to be a pretty daunting task for anybody who attempts it
  71. # [12:46] <MikeSmith> given the chain of dependencies
  72. # [12:48] <Philip> I expect implementing it in Java is pretty daunting too :-)
  73. # [12:48] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: yes, Java is strong with RELAX NG and Schematron
  74. # [12:53] <anne> If you have the parsing library and you instead go with custom code (the class per element idea from Hixie) it might work
  75. # [12:53] <hsivonen> anne: that wouldn't be workalike for the whole Validator.nu, though. :-)
  76. # [12:54] <anne> it would work different, yes :)
  77. # [12:54] <hsivonen> anne: writing custom code for HTML5 and SVG and MathML isn't a small task
  78. # [12:56] <hsivonen> hmm. Saxon-B source imports closed Saxon-SA stuff it seems
  79. # [12:56] <Philip> Nobody uses MathML so you can just skip writing that part and it'll be fine :-)
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  81. # [13:02] <anne> at some point i'd like to figure out how I can make hsivonen stop to suggest that MathML is only written by tools
  82. # [13:03] <hsivonen> anne: why? wouldn't it be better to first stop Philip who's saying no one uses it?
  83. # [13:08] <anne> Philip's concerns can be addressed by addressing yours and solving the browser support problem
  84. # [13:08] <anne> well, in my world of thought :)
  85. # [13:11] <anne> that is, I believe that part of the reason that nobody uses it comes due to complexity and lack of support
  86. # [13:11] <anne> complexity probably includes not being able to use it in HTML
  87. # [13:36] <hsivonen> anne: chances are that a radical simplication would make it something other than MathML.
  88. # [13:37] <hsivonen> anne: as it stands, suggesting that MathML is generated by TeX4ht, iTeX2mml, Mathematica, OpenOffice.org, etc. doesn't seem like an unreasonable position to me.
  89. # [13:38] <Philip> Should it be possible for such generated MathML to be imported back into one of those programs for further editing?
  90. # [13:39] <hsivonen> Philip: part of the value proposition was the ability to import to Mathematica and Maple
  91. # [13:39] <hsivonen> Philip: as far as I've noticed, the promise remains unfulfilled
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  93. # [13:39] <hsivonen> Philip: but yeah, I'd expect import to Mathematica, Maple and OpenOffice.org but not to LaTeX or iTeX
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  117. # [17:55] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - if Saxon-B is actually importing non-free stuff, it seems like it couldn't be built from sources without the builder having a copies of the non-free stuff around
  118. # [17:55] <MikeSmith> but http://ftp-master.debian.org/new.html seems to indicate there's a source package
  119. # [17:55] <MikeSmith> which I think is required by policy for all Debian java stuff anyway
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  122. # [19:15] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: Debian might be patching out the -SA deps. I don't know.
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  132. # [19:58] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - ah yeah, could well be
  133. # [20:02] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - I notice there's finally a package for RNV, David Tolpin's Relax NG validator
  134. # [20:03] <MikeSmith> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/rnv_1.7.9-1.html
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  143. # [21:00] <zcorpan> publishing day tomorrow?
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  162. # [22:44] <anne> zcorpan, yes
  163. # [22:44] <anne> zcorpan, I believe 5PM our time
  164. # [22:44] <anne> but it's probably not that exact
  165. # [22:45] <Philip> Is anybody planning to post favourably biased stories to news publications?
  166. # [22:46] <anne> I believe the W3C is preparing a press release
  167. # [22:46] <gsnedders> But that's normal for any movement to TR space, is it not?
  168. # [22:46] <anne> This one is pretty special as I understand it
  169. # [22:47] <gsnedders> OMFG über PR! :P
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  179. # [23:12] * jgraham wonders if the w3c still plan to rebrand XHTML2
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  186. # [23:58] <gsnedders> we're getting /TR/html5, right?
  187. # [23:59] <Philip> I'm hoping for /TR/html-five-point-oh
  188. # [23:59] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: ping
  189. # Session Close: Tue Jan 22 00:00:00 2008

The end :)