/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-01-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jan 24 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  5. # [00:13] <zcorpan> hmm
  6. # [00:13] * zcorpan ponders about DanC's request for everyone to put disclaimers on most things they say
  7. # [00:15] <anne> it's just for public-html-comments
  8. # [00:15] <anne> and might not count for editors
  9. # [00:16] * anne rejoices
  10. # [00:17] * gsnedders wants HTML mail just so he can use 20em disclaimers, in red.
  11. # [00:17] <zcorpan> oh, i thought it was intended for public-html.
  12. # [00:19] <anne> no
  13. # [00:20] * jgraham wonders if he should retroactively disclaim things he said earlier
  14. # [00:21] <anne> if you do, mention my name as well :)
  15. # [00:22] <jgraham> Well I was thinking I would have to email the list again, but that seems antisocially noisy, so maybe private email to the original posters
  16. # [00:26] <Lachy> I think the disclaimers is a bad idea
  17. # [00:27] <Lachy> everyone's comments should just be considered to be personal opinion, unless it explicitly states it's on behalf of the working group
  18. # [00:27] <jgraham> Lachy: they seem unnecessary to me too, and very hard to write well
  19. # [00:27] <zcorpan> i guess a boilerplate to include anytime we send to -comments seems easiest
  20. # [00:28] <jgraham> For example saying "I think foo but that doesn't represent the opinion of the WG" suggests the WG thinks "not foo"
  21. # [00:28] <zcorpan> with probably just a link to DanC's email requesting disclaimers
  22. # [00:28] <Hixie> what does it mean for a working group to have an opinion anyway?
  23. # [00:28] <Hixie> especially one with 500+ people
  24. # [00:29] <jgraham> Hixie: It seems to mean that we have taken a formal vote on something
  25. # [00:29] <Philip> You can say "The working group has decided X" (or, if there is an assumption that you are speaking on behalf of the working group, just say "X"), and that doesn't involve opinions
  26. # [00:30] * Hixie prefers the whatwg style
  27. # [00:30] <Hixie> where everyone just has their own opinions
  28. # [00:30] <Hixie> and there's no attempt at pretending that everyone agrees on everything (or anything)
  29. # [00:32] <anne> Acid3 test 76 (unwritten) is interesting
  30. # [00:33] <Philip> http://google.com/search?q=cache:kqZmhh_nOjEJ:hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/003/NOT_READY_PLEASE_DO_NOT_USE.html - I guess that's an unsupported way of running the test
  31. # [00:33] <Hixie> it's certainly not a way that's going to be very useful
  32. # [00:34] <zcorpan> having a quirks mode acid test isn't such a bad idea
  33. # [00:35] <Hixie> if there was a spec...
  34. # [00:36] <zcorpan> yep, writing it is on my to-do list ;)
  35. # [00:37] <anne> thanks to Acid2 there's at least one additional quirk in the HTML parser :-(
  36. # [00:37] <Hixie> i know the feeling
  37. # [00:37] <Hixie> oh?
  38. # [00:37] <anne> <p><table>
  39. # [00:37] <Hixie> that's been a quirk for years, in compliant browsers like mozilla
  40. # [00:37] <zcorpan> so was lack of sgml comment parsing
  41. # [00:38] <Hixie> yeah well that's a different case
  42. # [00:38] <anne> neh
  43. # [00:38] <Hixie> <p><table/></p> is dumb, at least given our model in html5
  44. # [00:38] <Hixie> i don't regret forcing that issue at all
  45. # [00:39] <zcorpan> i agree that standards mode parsing of <p><table> makes more sense, but i'd rather it worked the same in both quirks and no-quirks
  46. # [00:39] <zcorpan> granted, i don't know how many pages would break if we did standards mode parsing of <p><table> in quirks mode too
  47. # [00:41] <anne> enough for it to matter last i checked
  48. # [00:41] <zcorpan> how did you check?
  49. # [00:42] <zcorpan> the knowledge that pages contain <p><table> doesn't mean that those will necessarily break when parsing as standards mode
  50. # [00:43] <zcorpan> i mean, if there's no matching css and scripts doesn't depend on it, and the trailing </p> after the table creates an empty P, then it will probably be rendered the same
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  67. # [01:54] <smedero> someone here was wanting to comment on Norman Walsh's blog about html5 but couldn't - he just posted an entry saying that he fixed a bug in his software preventing comments.
  68. # [01:55] <Philip> MikeSmith: You are someone ^
  69. # [01:55] <smedero> nwalsh on html5 for reference: http://norman.walsh.name/2008/01/22/html5
  70. # [01:55] <smedero> Ahh, thanks Philip...
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  76. # [02:15] <MikeSmith> Philip - thanks. will need to head over there and comment (if somebody else hasn't already said what I was going to say)
  77. # [02:16] <MikeSmith> hmm, I forget now what I was planning to say.. guess I'll have to re-read it
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  106. # [05:55] * trackbot-ng HTML Issue Tracking http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/
  107. # [05:57] * trackbot-ng HTML Issue Tracking http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/
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  112. # [08:57] <hsivonen> Hixie: the new Editor's Draft still has the WD header
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  115. # [09:23] <Hixie> oops
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  246. # [16:10] * Topic is 'HTML 5 is published http://www.w3.org/News/2008#item8 ; preparing for telecon Thu 24 Jan 17:00Z http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda (logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ ) '
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  290. # [18:01] <MikeSmith> trackbot-ng, list
  291. # [18:01] <MikeSmith> oops
  292. # [18:02] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  293. # [18:02] <DanC> RRSAgent, pointer?
  294. # [18:02] <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-irc#T17-00-03
  295. # [18:02] <DanC> Zakim, this will be html
  296. # [18:02] <Zakim> ok, DanC, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  297. # [18:02] <DanC> agenda + Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-01-24T17:00:00Z
  298. # [18:02] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  299. # [18:02] * DanC Zakim, call DanC-BOS
  300. # [18:02] * Zakim ok, DanC; the call is being made
  301. # [18:02] <Zakim> +DanC
  302. # [18:03] <MikeSmith> trackbot-ng, start meeting
  303. # [18:03] * trackbot-ng HTML Issue Tracking http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/
  304. # [18:03] * trackbot-ng is starting a teleconference
  305. # [18:03] <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs public
  306. # [18:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot-ng
  307. # [18:03] <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be HTML
  308. # [18:03] <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  309. # [18:03] <trackbot-ng> Meeting: HTML Issue Tracking Teleconference
  310. # [18:03] <trackbot-ng> Date: 24 January 2008
  311. # [18:03] <DanC> Meeting: HTML WG Weekly
  312. # [18:03] <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  313. # [18:03] <Zakim> On the phone I see +49.251.2.aaaa, ??P1, DanC
  314. # [18:03] <anne> Zakim, passcode?
  315. # [18:03] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
  316. # [18:04] <Julian> Zakim, +49.251.2.aaaa is me
  317. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Julian; got it
  318. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P4
  319. # [18:04] <DanC> Zakim, ??P1 is Sam_Kuper
  320. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Sam_Kuper; got it
  321. # [18:04] <MikeSmith> Zakim, code?
  322. # [18:04] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MikeSmith
  323. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P5
  324. # [18:04] <DanC> Zakim, ??P4 is anne
  325. # [18:04] <Zakim> +anne; got it
  326. # [18:04] <MikeSmith> Zakim, ??P5 is me
  327. # [18:04] <Zakim> +MikeSmith; got it
  328. # [18:04] * Joins: matt (matt@128.30.52.30)
  329. # [18:05] <MikeSmith> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  330. # [18:05] <Zakim> On the phone I see Julian, Sam_Kuper, DanC, anne, MikeSmith
  331. # [18:05] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  332. # [18:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
  333. # [18:05] * anne is confused that Zakim did not recognize him; works for #waf
  334. # [18:06] <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  335. # [18:06] <Zakim> On the phone I see Julian, Sam_Kuper, DanC, anne, MikeSmith
  336. # [18:06] * Joins: oedipus (oedipus@70.21.186.138)
  337. # [18:06] <shepazu> Zakim, call Doug-work
  338. # [18:06] <Zakim> ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  339. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Doug
  340. # [18:06] <MikeSmith> scribe: MikeSmith
  341. # [18:06] <MikeSmith> scribenick: MikeSmith
  342. # [18:07] * shepazu is eavesdropping
  343. # [18:07] <DanC> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2008JanMar/0011.html
  344. # [18:07] <MikeSmith> present: Julian, Sam_Kuper, DanC, anne, MikeSmith, shepazu
  345. # [18:07] <oedipus> GJR will call in ASAP -- is having serious computer problems, but still hopes to call in
  346. # [18:07] <MikeSmith> chair: DanC
  347. # [18:08] <MikeSmith> DanC : going around the table in Zakim order
  348. # [18:08] * Joins: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.104)
  349. # [18:08] <DanC> agenda + scope, requirements, and modularity http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/2
  350. # [18:08] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
  351. # [18:08] * ChrisWilson will be on the call in just a minute
  352. # [18:08] <MikeSmith> Julian : I'm interested in talking about the modularity issue
  353. # [18:08] <DanC> agenda + follow-up on the HTML 5 release, handling comments
  354. # [18:08] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
  355. # [18:08] <MikeSmith> Sam: I have no preferences at the moment, first telcon I've joined, I have no preferences
  356. # [18:09] <DanC> agenda + HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5
  357. # [18:09] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
  358. # [18:09] <MikeSmith> DanC : I think the HTML5 spec release is worth a little partying
  359. # [18:09] * oedipus can someone shoot me the passcode in real numbers -- right now only IRC is working right on my pc
  360. # [18:09] * DanC Zakim, passcode?
  361. # [18:09] * Zakim saw 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152) given for the conference code, DanC
  362. # [18:09] * oedipus thanks, DanC
  363. # [18:10] <DanC> agenda + heartbeat requirement
  364. # [18:10] * Zakim notes agendum 5 added
  365. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
  366. # [18:10] <MikeSmith> present+ Gregory
  367. # [18:10] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@84.215.54.100)
  368. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> shepazu : interested in modularity but I don't want to drive the meeting
  369. # [18:11] <DanC> agenda + aria-role ISSUE-14 (edit)
  370. # [18:11] * Zakim notes agendum 6 added
  371. # [18:11] * Joins: Preston (chatzilla@68.4.242.69)
  372. # [18:11] * oedipus GJR will be on mute because he doesn't have a functioning earpiece
  373. # [18:11] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  374. # [18:11] <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-01-24T17:00:00Z" taken up [from DanC]
  375. # [18:11] * oedipus until ARIA discussion, of course
  376. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> DanC : I need to be out of here at 12:00 central
  377. # [18:11] <DanC> Zakim, close item 1
  378. # [18:11] <Zakim> agendum 1, Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-01-24T17:00:00Z, closed
  379. # [18:11] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  380. # [18:11] <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
  381. # [18:11] <Zakim> 2. scope, requirements, and modularity http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/2 [from DanC]
  382. # [18:11] <Zakim> agendum 2. "scope, requirements, and modularity http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/2" taken up [from DanC]
  383. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  384. # [18:11] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
  385. # [18:11] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  386. # [18:11] <ChrisWilson> zakim, Microsoft is me
  387. # [18:11] <Zakim> +ChrisWilson; got it
  388. # [18:12] <MikeSmith> present+ ChrisWilson
  389. # [18:12] * shepazu waves to ChrisWilson
  390. # [18:12] <DanC> Zakim, agenda?
  391. # [18:12] <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
  392. # [18:12] <Zakim> 2. scope, requirements, and modularity http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/2 [from DanC]
  393. # [18:12] <Zakim> 3. follow-up on the HTML 5 release, handling comments [from DanC]
  394. # [18:12] <Zakim> 4. HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5 [from DanC]
  395. # [18:12] <Zakim> 5. heartbeat requirement [from DanC]
  396. # [18:12] <Zakim> 6. aria-role ISSUE-14 (edit) [from DanC]
  397. # [18:12] * oedipus oedipus semiphores shepazu
  398. # [18:12] <MikeSmith> i/going around the table/Topic: agenda bashing/
  399. # [18:12] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  400. # [18:12] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
  401. # [18:13] * shepazu nods knowingly to oedipus
  402. # [18:13] * oedipus thanks mikeTMsmith
  403. # [18:13] <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/01/modularity.html Simple things make firm foundations
  404. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> DanC : one side note related to modularity is in W3 Q&A weblog
  405. # [18:14] <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/blog/tag/ TAG blog
  406. # [18:14] * DanC q?
  407. # [18:14] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  408. # [18:14] * Parts: Preston (chatzilla@68.4.242.69)
  409. # [18:14] <MikeSmith> DanC : from W3C Directory Tim Berners-Lee
  410. # [18:14] <MikeSmith> s/Directory/Director/
  411. # [18:14] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/01/modularity.html
  412. # [18:14] <MikeSmith> anne : I read that as saying that it could be *implemented* in a modular way
  413. # [18:15] * Joins: Preston (chatzilla@68.4.242.69)
  414. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> ... not necessarily written in a modular way
  415. # [18:15] <DanC> action-13?
  416. # [18:15] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-13
  417. # [18:15] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-13 -- Chris Wilson to talk to WebAPI and WAF WGs about their role in offline API stuff and how they work with and contribute to the discussion -- due 2008-02-05 -- OPEN
  418. # [18:15] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/13
  419. # [18:15] * oedipus anne, re: m12n it's an IKEA world...
  420. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> ChrisWilson: no progress on that yet
  421. # [18:15] <DanC> action-14?
  422. # [18:15] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-14
  423. # [18:15] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-14 -- Chris Wilson to get more information on MS patent review with <canvas> -- due 2008-03-01 -- OPEN
  424. # [18:15] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/14
  425. # [18:16] <MikeSmith> ChrisWilson : This obviously is in progress but I won't have anything to say until our legal team gets back
  426. # [18:16] <MikeSmith> ... March 1st is probably before they will be done, but I don't want to drop it
  427. # [18:16] <DanC> action-14?
  428. # [18:16] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-14
  429. # [18:16] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-14 -- Chris Wilson to get more information on MS patent review with <canvas> -- due 2008-05-01 -- OPEN
  430. # [18:16] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/14
  431. # [18:16] <DanC> action-27?
  432. # [18:16] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-27
  433. # [18:16] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-27 -- Dan Connolly to draft a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with microformats.org regarding @rel values -- due 2008-01-31 -- OPEN
  434. # [18:16] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/27
  435. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> DanC : a little progress on this ...
  436. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> ... I talked with Rigo Wiening
  437. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> ... he's interested in having the registry at W3C
  438. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> ... also David Orchard of BEA
  439. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> ... I continue to investigate the microformats.org
  440. # [18:17] <DanC> agenda + next meeting... 31 Jan?
  441. # [18:17] * Zakim notes agendum 7 added
  442. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> ... wondering for example what would happen if they get sued
  443. # [18:18] <DanC> action-38?
  444. # [18:18] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-38
  445. # [18:18] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-38 -- Dan Connolly to chairs to review need for amending charter with Director -- due 2008-01-24 -- OPEN
  446. # [18:18] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/38
  447. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> DanC : hmm, due today... I guess we're not done with that
  448. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> ChrisWilson : right, I don't think we've reached a conclusion on that
  449. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> DanC : I'm gonna get progress on that in the next week, most likely
  450. # [18:19] <DanC> action-41?
  451. # [18:19] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-41
  452. # [18:19] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-41 -- Dan Connolly to consider a new requirements issue about the overlap with HTTP -- due 2008-01-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  453. # [18:19] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/41
  454. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> ... time with ... Tim maybe today
  455. # [18:19] <DanC> action-28?
  456. # [18:19] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-28
  457. # [18:19] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-28 -- Dan Connolly to consult with the Hypertext CG and W3C management about how much time W3C member organizations should be allowed to study the patent implications of an HTML 5 spec 1st WD -- due 2007-12-19 -- CLOSED
  458. # [18:19] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/28
  459. # [18:19] <DanC> issue-28?
  460. # [18:19] * trackbot-ng getting information on ISSUE-28
  461. # [18:19] <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-28 -- Content type rules in HTML 5 overlaps with the HTTP specification? -- OPEN
  462. # [18:19] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/28
  463. # [18:20] <MikeSmith> DanC : basically, I almost did an Internet Draft back in August
  464. # [18:20] <MikeSmith> ... I've not checked what impact if any this might have on the HTML spec
  465. # [18:20] * Quits: matt (matt@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
  466. # [18:20] <MikeSmith> trackbot-ng, close action-41
  467. # [18:20] * trackbot-ng attempting to close ACTION-41.
  468. # [18:20] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-41 Consider a new requirements issue about the overlap with HTTP closed
  469. # [18:20] * DanC q?
  470. # [18:20] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  471. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> DanC : Julian, you expressed some interest in that?
  472. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> Julian : the content-type sniffing thing?
  473. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> DanC : yeah
  474. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> Julian : yeah, let's talk about it now
  475. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> Julian : issue is that HTML spec mandates content-type sniffing ...
  476. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> ... while the HTTP spec and TAG document prohibit it
  477. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> DanC : I would really like a test case
  478. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> Julian : I think Ian Hickson has a big set of test cases
  479. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> ... related to this
  480. # [18:22] * Quits: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.104) (Ping timeout)
  481. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> Hixie ?
  482. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> DanC : anybody got a URL for that?
  483. # [18:23] <Julian> test cases: http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/
  484. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> DanC : would like EARL reports on these
  485. # [18:23] * Joins: matt (matt@128.30.52.30)
  486. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> DanC : would like review by the HTTP working group
  487. # [18:24] * DanC considers making this a separate agendum
  488. # [18:24] <MikeSmith> Julian : We have the argument that, on the one hand, the specs require to trust the content-type that is given
  489. # [18:24] <MikeSmith> ... but the HTML spec requiring UAs not to do that
  490. # [18:24] <gsnedders> Julian: didn't you mean http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ ?
  491. # [18:25] <MikeSmith> ... also the ongoing discussing about if a UA is required to report discrepancies if it does sniffing and finds them
  492. # [18:25] <DanC> trackbot-ng, status
  493. # [18:25] * trackbot-ng knows about the following 16 users: Michael(tm), Anne, Chris, Karl, Lachlan, Shawn, Dan, Michael, David, Charles, Maciej, James, Gregory, David, Ian, Julian
  494. # [18:25] <gsnedders> (the ones in the parent folder merely check it obeys the given content-type in some cases)
  495. # [18:25] * Joins: hober (ted@68.101.220.172)
  496. # [18:25] <Julian> gsnedders: yeah
  497. # [18:25] <DanC> . ACTION: Julian to investigate expected results to http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/ tests in collaboration with the IETF HTTP WG
  498. # [18:25] <gsnedders> DanC: http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ it should be
  499. # [18:26] <DanC> ACTION: Julian to investigate expected results to http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ tests in collaboration with the IETF HTTP WG
  500. # [18:26] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  501. # [18:26] * RRSAgent records action 3
  502. # [18:26] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-44 - Investigate expected results to http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ tests in collaboration with the IETF HTTP WG [on Julian Reschke - due 2008-01-31].
  503. # [18:26] <MikeSmith> Julian : looking at that, it seems like the tests may actually have expected results stated
  504. # [18:26] <DanC> ACTION: Dan to developer EARL/hReview reports based on http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ from a handful of user agents
  505. # [18:26] * RRSAgent records action 4
  506. # [18:26] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  507. # [18:26] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-45 - Developer EARL/hReview reports based on http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/http/content-type/sniffing/ from a handful of user agents [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-01-31].
  508. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> DanC : so much for that
  509. # [18:27] <DanC> issue-29?
  510. # [18:27] * trackbot-ng getting information on ISSUE-29
  511. # [18:27] <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-29 -- Should the HTML 5 specification introduce URI schemes such as javascript:? -- OPEN
  512. # [18:27] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/29
  513. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> DanC : I might have jumped the gun on this on a little bit
  514. # [18:27] <gsnedders> for javascript: the normal parsing rules for URIs can't apply, because it relies on all kinds of behaviour
  515. # [18:27] * Joins: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.75)
  516. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> ... anne clarified that there may be a separate draft spec related to this
  517. # [18:28] <ChrisWilson> hmmm...that explains why I wasn't getting any updates.
  518. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> DanC : we should decide as a working group whether that's in scope
  519. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> DanC : anybody want to take action on that?
  520. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> anne : what kind of action?
  521. # [18:28] * DanC q?
  522. # [18:28] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  523. # [18:28] <Julian> q+q+
  524. # [18:28] * Zakim sees q+ on the speaker queue
  525. # [18:29] <Julian> q+
  526. # [18:29] * Zakim sees q+, Julian on the speaker queue
  527. # [18:29] <MikeSmith> shepazu : leaving it in the "someday" pile means it stays in the spec ...
  528. # [18:29] <Zakim> +??P0
  529. # [18:29] <DanC> (roll call isn't critical for this meeting, since decisions aren't binding)
  530. # [18:30] <MikeSmith> Zakim, ??P0 is Samuel
  531. # [18:30] <Zakim> +Samuel; got it
  532. # [18:30] <anne> http://www.websitedev.de/ietf/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-ri-00.txt
  533. # [18:30] <MikeSmith> present+ Samuel
  534. # [18:30] <anne> October 28, 2006
  535. # [18:30] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  536. # [18:30] <MikeSmith> anne : there is no "01"
  537. # [18:31] <MikeSmith> DanC : somebody should ping Bjoern about it
  538. # [18:31] <MikeSmith> Julian : yeah, I can do that
  539. # [18:31] <MikeSmith> ... I think the javascript URI thing never went anywhere ...
  540. # [18:31] <MikeSmith> ... because nobody agreed it could [identify] a resource
  541. # [18:32] <DanC> ACTION: Julian ask B. Hoehrmann about any plans to update http://www.websitedev.de/ietf/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-ri-00.txt
  542. # [18:32] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  543. # [18:32] * RRSAgent records action 5
  544. # [18:32] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-46 - Ask B. Hoehrmann about any plans to update http://www.websitedev.de/ietf/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-ri-00.txt [on Julian Reschke - due 2008-01-31].
  545. # [18:32] <Julian> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hoehrmann-javascript-scheme-00
  546. # [18:32] <MikeSmith> DanC : anybody know if javascript: is used outside of a@href ?
  547. # [18:32] * Joins: sampablokuper (sampabloku@81.107.39.49)
  548. # [18:33] <MikeSmith> ... used outside of HTML ?
  549. # [18:33] <shepazu> I'm not sure that "javascript:" is much different in respect to defining a resource than "data:uri"
  550. # [18:33] <MikeSmith> ChrisWilson : in Favorites
  551. # [18:33] <MikeSmith> anne : also in SVG
  552. # [18:33] * DanC q?
  553. # [18:33] * Zakim sees q+, Julian on the speaker queue
  554. # [18:33] <DanC> ack Julian
  555. # [18:33] * Zakim sees q+ on the speaker queue
  556. # [18:34] <DanC> queue=
  557. # [18:34] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  558. # [18:34] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  559. # [18:34] <Zakim> agendum 3. "follow-up on the HTML 5 release, handling comments" taken up [from DanC]
  560. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> DanC : user-agent community has already to my satisfaction demonstrated that it could be used [like? as?] a URI
  561. # [18:34] <oedipus> there are MANY examples in the wild of javascript: being used as a pseudo-HREF -- javascript:var popupwin=this.window.open etc.
  562. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> DanC : anybody sees Paul Krill's article?
  563. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> q+ to comment on that article
  564. # [18:34] * Zakim sees MikeSmith on the speaker queue
  565. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/01/22/W3C-offers-HTML-5-draft_1.html
  566. # [18:34] <DanC> krill article http://www.infoworld.com/archives/emailPrint.jsp?R=printThis&A=/article/08/01/22/W3C-offers-HTML-5-draft_1.html
  567. # [18:35] <MikeSmith> [[
  568. # [18:35] <MikeSmith> "The most interesting thing will be what happens when those capabilities get into native HTML and what impact that has on the rich Internet development market," he said. Specific plug-in technologies are not supported on every platform, he said. "[Thusly], as a developer I might be more interested in writing HTML 5," Hammond said.
  569. # [18:35] <MikeSmith> ]]
  570. # [18:35] <DanC> -- Jeffrey Hammond
  571. # [18:36] * Joins: Silenius (d40d2511@89.238.143.101)
  572. # [18:36] <DanC> not even idiot comments: http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/08/01/22/175243.shtml
  573. # [18:36] <MikeSmith> DanC : and HTML5 got on Slashdot...
  574. # [18:37] <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/
  575. # [18:37] <MikeSmith> DanC : so this publication has actually generated comments on the public-html-comments list
  576. # [18:37] <MikeSmith> DanC : If you respond to comments there, make it clear that you are not responding on behalf of the working group
  577. # [18:38] <MikeSmith> ... the only way to respond on behalf of the group is to quote an actual working-group decision
  578. # [18:38] <MikeSmith> q+ to suggest we encourage members of the WG to subscribe to the comments list
  579. # [18:38] * Zakim sees MikeSmith on the speaker queue
  580. # [18:38] <DanC> agenda + phrase-level and semantic element discussion... separate mailing list?
  581. # [18:38] * Zakim notes agendum 8 added
  582. # [18:38] * DanC q?
  583. # [18:38] * Zakim sees MikeSmith on the speaker queue
  584. # [18:39] <DanC> ack MikeSmith
  585. # [18:39] <Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to comment on that article and to suggest we encourage members of the WG to subscribe to the comments list
  586. # [18:39] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  587. # [18:40] <anne> http://cgi.w3.org/member-bin/MailingListQuery.pl?queryList=public-html-comments says 41
  588. # [18:40] <oedipus> GJR: mikeTMsmith, although it is a top-level link on the HTML WG page, most people don't know of its existence and even though in the spec, people diving down into details and skipping the intro, which is human nature, which cannot be changed....
  589. # [18:40] <MikeSmith> q?
  590. # [18:40] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  591. # [18:40] <DanC> Zakim, close this item
  592. # [18:40] <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
  593. # [18:40] <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
  594. # [18:40] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  595. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
  596. # [18:40] <Zakim> 4. HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5 [from DanC]
  597. # [18:40] <DanC> Zakim, take up item heartbeat
  598. # [18:40] <Zakim> agendum 5. "heartbeat requirement" taken up [from DanC]
  599. # [18:40] <MikeSmith> oedipus - true that
  600. # [18:40] <DanC> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/3
  601. # [18:41] <oedipus> mikeTMsmith - it's the danger of checklists and best practices documents -- people work off of them, rather than the actual TR
  602. # [18:41] <DanC> issue-19?
  603. # [18:41] * trackbot-ng getting information on ISSUE-19
  604. # [18:41] <trackbot-ng> ISSUE-19 -- HTML 5 specification 1st release as W3C WD -- CLOSED
  605. # [18:41] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/19
  606. # [18:41] <MikeSmith> DanC : product3 in tracker is W3C publications
  607. # [18:41] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: action-37 can be closed
  608. # [18:41] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@66.30.196.151) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 3.0b3pre/2008012304])
  609. # [18:41] <MikeSmith> April 22
  610. # [18:42] * DanC q?
  611. # [18:42] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  612. # [18:42] <MikeSmith> DanC : what's the next draft anybody wants to see published?
  613. # [18:42] <MikeSmith> ChrisWilson : I would like to put in a request to not re-publish the spec every 3 months
  614. # [18:43] <MikeSmith> ... (because of need to do patent review)
  615. # [18:43] <gsnedders> I don't think it's worthwhile republishing the spec every 3 months, but what other documents do we have that change enough to be worthwhile publishing?
  616. # [18:44] <oedipus> q+ to ask if WCAG (web content accessibility guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL and ATAG (authoring tool accessibility wg - http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU) has been approached about working with HTML WG with on authoring guidelines? that is what these groups do, and both have expressed willingness to work with the HTML WG on such documentation
  617. # [18:44] * Zakim sees oedipus on the speaker queue
  618. # [18:44] <MikeSmith> ... we either have to do a patent review every time we publish the spec, or we have to agree before publishing [about all changes that go into the spec between publications]
  619. # [18:44] <DanC> ack oedipus
  620. # [18:44] <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask if WCAG (web content accessibility guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL and ATAG (authoring tool accessibility wg - http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU) has been
  621. # [18:44] <Zakim> ... approached about working with HTML WG with on authoring guidelines? that is what these groups do, and both have expressed willingness to work with the HTML WG on such
  622. # [18:44] <Zakim> ... documentation
  623. # [18:44] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  624. # [18:44] <DanC> Zakim, close this agendum
  625. # [18:44] <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
  626. # [18:44] <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
  627. # [18:44] <Zakim> 4. HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5 [from DanC]
  628. # [18:44] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  629. # [18:44] <Zakim> agendum 4. "HTML 5 authoring guide http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/5" taken up [from DanC]
  630. # [18:45] <oedipus> has WCAG (web content accessibility guidelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL and ATAG (authoring tool accessibility wg - http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU) has been approached about working with HTML WG with on authoring guidelines? that is what these groups do, and both have expressed willingness to work with the HTML WG on such documentation
  631. # [18:45] <MikeSmith> GR: has the WAI authoring-tool group or [other WAI group] been approached about collaborating?
  632. # [18:45] <MikeSmith> DanC : not been approached to my knowledge
  633. # [18:46] <MikeSmith> GR: I have talked to them, but I think they want somebody other than me [from the HTML WG] to approach them
  634. # [18:46] <MikeSmith> DanC : they are hereby welcomed
  635. # [18:46] <DanC> trackbot-ng, status
  636. # [18:46] * trackbot-ng knows about the following 16 users: Michael(tm), Anne, Chris, Karl, Lachlan, Shawn, Dan, Michael, David, Charles, Maciej, James, Gregory, David, Ian, Julian
  637. # [18:46] <DanC> ACTION: Gregory: invite ATAG and WCAG WGs to help with HTML 5 authoring guidelines
  638. # [18:46] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  639. # [18:46] * RRSAgent records action 6
  640. # [18:46] <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - Gregory:
  641. # [18:46] <oedipus> DanC, use wai-liaison@w3.org and what other public list
  642. # [18:46] <DanC> ACTION: Gregory invite ATAG and WCAG WGs to help with HTML 5 authoring guidelines
  643. # [18:46] * RRSAgent records action 7
  644. # [18:46] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  645. # [18:46] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-47 - Invite ATAG and WCAG WGs to help with HTML 5 authoring guidelines [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-01-31].
  646. # [18:47] <MikeSmith> action-37?
  647. # [18:47] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-37
  648. # [18:47] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-37 -- Michael(tm) Smith to announce Planet HTML5 on public-html-announce, http://www.w3.org/html/, wherever else appropriate -- due 2008-01-24 -- OPEN
  649. # [18:47] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/37
  650. # [18:47] <DanC> action-29
  651. # [18:47] <DanC> action-29?
  652. # [18:47] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-29
  653. # [18:47] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-29 -- Dan Connolly to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2008-01-31 -- OPEN
  654. # [18:47] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29
  655. # [18:47] <MikeSmith> trackbot-ng, close action-37
  656. # [18:47] * trackbot-ng attempting to close ACTION-37.
  657. # [18:47] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-37 Announce Planet HTML5 on public-html-announce, http://www.w3.org/html/, wherever else appropriate closed
  658. # [18:47] * MikeSmith thanks gsnedders
  659. # [18:48] <MikeSmith> DanC : I did follow up on action-29 ...
  660. # [18:48] <MikeSmith> ... it has gone up the tree ...
  661. # [18:48] <MikeSmith> ... I don't know if it has gone up to the Pope yet ...
  662. # [18:48] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@71.204.145.103)
  663. # [18:49] <MikeSmith> ... I did not push it [all the way] up the hill yet
  664. # [18:49] <oedipus> GJR: if DanC wants to play sissyphus than he will plus one
  665. # [18:49] <MikeSmith> Sam: I encourage you to pursue it, Dan
  666. # [18:49] <oedipus> GJR: am checking what ATAG documents do...
  667. # [18:50] <MikeSmith> DanC : use case: sometimes it's useful for certain kinds of applications to emit messages that quote parts of W3C specs ...
  668. # [18:50] <MikeSmith> ... [but applications are currently not free to do that because of W3C license restrictions]
  669. # [18:51] <MikeSmith> anne : [there is some precedent for dual licensing]
  670. # [18:51] * DanC discouraged shepazu from talking about this just now
  671. # [18:51] <DanC> action-32?
  672. # [18:51] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-32
  673. # [18:51] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-32 -- Michael(tm) Smith to change the product name of "HTML 5 authoring guidelines" in the tracker to something else, eventually -- due 2008-01-24 -- OPEN
  674. # [18:51] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/32
  675. # [18:51] <MikeSmith> shepazu : some in AC may be concerned about it setting a precedent
  676. # [18:51] <MikeSmith> trackbot-ng, close action-32
  677. # [18:51] * trackbot-ng attempting to close ACTION-32.
  678. # [18:51] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-32 Change the product name of "HTML 5 authoring guidelines" in the tracker to something else, eventually closed
  679. # [18:51] <DanC> action-33?
  680. # [18:51] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-33
  681. # [18:51] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-33 -- Chris Wilson to investigate an HTML WG blog, a la the way the I18N WG does it -- due 2008-02-05 -- OPEN
  682. # [18:51] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/33
  683. # [18:52] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@66.30.196.151)
  684. # [18:52] <shepazu> that's just my opinion, not a team stance
  685. # [18:52] <gavin> e/win 26
  686. # [18:54] <MikeSmith> anne : value of an HTML WG blog might be a place for people to blog about HTML5 instead of just on their blog
  687. # [18:54] <MikeSmith> ... I think Planet HTML5 is good enough
  688. # [18:54] <MikeSmith> ChrisWilson : Planet HTML5 is just aggregating blogs from elsewhere ...
  689. # [18:55] <MikeSmith> q+ to mention mechanism that Planet HTML5
  690. # [18:55] * Zakim sees MikeSmith on the speaker queue
  691. # [18:55] <MikeSmith> DanC : so far only the chairs are authorized to speak on behalf of the WG
  692. # [18:56] <MikeSmith> q?
  693. # [18:56] * Zakim sees MikeSmith on the speaker queue
  694. # [18:56] <DanC> close action-33
  695. # [18:56] * trackbot-ng attempting to close ACTION-33.
  696. # [18:56] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-33 Investigate an HTML WG blog, a la the way the I18N WG does it closed
  697. # [18:56] <MikeSmith> q?
  698. # [18:56] * Zakim sees MikeSmith on the speaker queue
  699. # [18:56] <DanC> action-34?
  700. # [18:56] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-34
  701. # [18:56] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-34 -- Lachlan Hunt to prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference -- due 2008-01-31 -- OPEN
  702. # [18:56] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/34
  703. # [18:56] <MikeSmith> Lachy ?
  704. # [18:56] <MikeSmith> you around?
  705. # [18:56] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  706. # [18:56] <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, DanC
  707. # [18:56] <DanC> ack next
  708. # [18:56] * Zakim sees MikeSmith at the head of the speaker queue
  709. # [18:57] <Zakim> MikeSmith, you wanted to mention mechanism that Planet HTML5
  710. # [18:57] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  711. # [18:57] <DanC> (I think the mechanism Mike is mentioning is documented in recent mail to public-html )
  712. # [18:57] <DanC> (a pointer would be nice...)
  713. # [18:58] * DanC is outta here in 5 minutes; let's move along
  714. # [18:58] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  715. # [18:58] <Zakim> agendum 6. "aria-role ISSUE-14 (edit)" taken up [from DanC]
  716. # [18:58] <oedipus> GJR's ARIA status report:
  717. # [18:58] <oedipus> ARIA Suite will now contain: 1) ARIA Roadmap; 2) Roles, States, and Properties for Accessible Rich Internet Applications (combination of 2 previously seperate documents); 3) ARIA Best Practices; and 4) ARIA Primer (new)
  718. # [18:58] <oedipus> two approaches to embedding ARIA:
  719. # [18:58] <oedipus> 1) no namespaces, no prefixes -- host languages reserve all attribute names matching the pattern aria-*. This allows the ARIA states and properties to be controlled by the PFWG specification, including future maintenance.
  720. # [18:58] <oedipus> 2) by Namespaces in XML -- Role Attribute Module () will give @role a 'home' namespace from which it can be cited using the Namespaces in XML Recommendation technique, so that ARIA can be used in DIAL and other dialects of XHTML, which are likely to be used primarily to feed middleware, as there is no immediate prospect of this technology being picked up widely by browsers any time soon
  721. # [18:58] <oedipus> testing - collaborative matrix (ARIA Test Tests) being maintained at: http://html4all.org/wiki/index.php/ARIATestTests
  722. # [18:58] <oedipus> problem: links to Best Practices document (no public draft yet) and the 2 drafts that are now one, but are not yet public
  723. # [18:59] <DanC> (I strongly encourage you to migrate from html4all.org to the esw.w3.org wiki)
  724. # [19:00] <MikeSmith> oedipus : only reason it's at html4all is that esw wiki doesn't allow hyperlinks in <dt>
  725. # [19:00] <DanC> ACTION-23?
  726. # [19:00] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-23
  727. # [19:00] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-23 -- Gregory Rosmaita to coordinate tests using ARIA -- due 2008-01-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  728. # [19:00] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23
  729. # [19:00] <MikeSmith> oedipus : I have to keep it open until new drafts come out ...
  730. # [19:00] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  731. # [19:00] <Zakim> agendum 7. "next meeting... 31 Jan?" taken up [from DanC]
  732. # [19:00] <MikeSmith> ... because there have been changes
  733. # [19:01] <MikeSmith> ChrisWilson : can't chair on 31st because I'll be at Web Directions North
  734. # [19:01] <MikeSmith> DanC : I can't either
  735. # [19:01] <MikeSmith> DanC : propose to cancel 31 January and I can chair on 7 Feb
  736. # [19:01] <DanC> so resolved
  737. # [19:01] <DanC> Zakim, next item
  738. # [19:01] <Zakim> agendum 8. "phrase-level and semantic element discussion... separate mailing list?" taken up [from DanC]
  739. # [19:01] <DanC> agenda?
  740. # [19:01] * Zakim sees 1 item remaining on the agenda:
  741. # [19:01] * Zakim 8. phrase-level and semantic element discussion... separate mailing list? [from DanC]
  742. # [19:02] <sampablokuper> 2nded
  743. # [19:02] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  744. # [19:02] <Zakim> -anne
  745. # [19:02] <MikeSmith> [adjourned]
  746. # [19:02] <Zakim> -Sam_Kuper
  747. # [19:02] <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
  748. # [19:02] <Zakim> -Julian
  749. # [19:02] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718])
  750. # [19:02] <Lachy> hey
  751. # [19:02] <Zakim> -Doug
  752. # [19:02] <Zakim> -DanC
  753. # [19:02] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  754. # [19:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
  755. # [19:03] <DanC> Regrets+ Marcin_Hanclik
  756. # [19:03] <MikeSmith> Lachy - wanted to ask for status update on your authoring-guide draft
  757. # [19:03] * Joins: adele (adele@17.203.15.207)
  758. # [19:03] <MikeSmith> but it can wait til later
  759. # [19:03] <Lachy> I made some updates. I intend to make some more and get a decent draft by the end of the month
  760. # [19:03] <Lachy> if I can find the time
  761. # [19:04] <MikeSmith> Lachy - Ok, if you have time, might be good to post a short status report to public-html to let people know it's been update
  762. # [19:04] <MikeSmith> updated
  763. # [19:05] <Zakim> -Samuel
  764. # [19:05] <Lachy> yeah, will do when I make some more substantial updates
  765. # [19:05] <Lachy> I want to take all the previous feedback into account first
  766. # [19:05] <MikeSmith> some possibility of that being a candidate for publishing to meet our April 22 heartbeat deadline
  767. # [19:05] <MikeSmith> Lachy - understood
  768. # [19:05] <Lachy> in particular, work out a good way of presenting and describing each element
  769. # [19:05] <Lachy> I should be able to get an FPWD ready by April
  770. # [19:06] <MikeSmith> to publish by April 22, we would want to have it wrapped up at least 3 weeks before then
  771. # [19:06] <Lachy> yep. I assume we would need another group survey, plus plenty of arguining about why it shouldn't be published before then
  772. # [19:06] <Lachy> :-)
  773. # [19:07] <MikeSmith> Lachy - yeah ;)
  774. # [19:07] <MikeSmith> agreement from group by March 31 to publish it, I think
  775. # [19:07] <Lachy> ok
  776. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> probably at least two weeks of wrangling before that
  777. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> so freezed by March 17 or so perhaps
  778. # [19:08] <Lachy> ok, so I need to put in a lot of work during feb
  779. # [19:09] <Lachy> I don't like freezing WDs
  780. # [19:09] <MikeSmith> yeah, I think you would, if we want to be able to have it ready for review and discussion in mid-March
  781. # [19:10] <Lachy> I want to get someone to help come up with a nicer stylesheet for it
  782. # [19:10] <Lachy> mine looks crap :-)
  783. # [19:10] <MikeSmith> Lachy - yeah, well, groups generally don't like to agree to publish documents that are going to unilaterally change after the version they've agreed to publish
  784. # [19:10] * Parts: sampablokuper (sampabloku@81.107.39.49)
  785. # [19:11] <Lachy> well, I can just fork it at some point, make editorial changes only to the one that will be published and more substantial changes to the other
  786. # [19:11] <Lachy> then merge afterwards
  787. # [19:11] <MikeSmith> Lachy - yeah, exactly
  788. # [19:11] <MikeSmith> anyway, this gives you some tangible deadline to work toward
  789. # [19:12] <MikeSmith> that usually helps to keep motivated
  790. # [19:12] <Lachy> ok
  791. # [19:13] <MikeSmith> and to helps editors to convince slave-devil managers/employers to allow them time to do the writing
  792. # [19:13] * Quits: adele (adele@17.203.15.207) (Quit: adele)
  793. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, pointer?
  794. # [19:14] <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/24-html-wg-irc#T18-11-43
  795. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> present+ Samuel
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  800. # [19:37] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, MikeSmith, in HTML_WG()12:00PM
  801. # [19:37] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  802. # [19:37] <Zakim> Attendees were DanC, Julian, Sam_Kuper, anne, MikeSmith, Doug, Gregory_Rosmaita, ChrisWilson, Samuel
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  825. # Session Close: Fri Jan 25 00:00:00 2008

The end :)