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- # Session Start: Thu Feb 21 00:00:01 2008
- # Session Ident: #html-wg
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- # [03:40] <RelDrgn> hm, I predict that this is probably a wholly inappropriate place to mention this, but the last revision of Overview.html truncated the file in the middle (Changes since 1.425: +1 -30610 lines)
- # [03:43] <RelDrgn> (referring to http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ )
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- # [11:06] <hsivonen> are the video workshop minutes Member-only on purpose? I though they were supposed to be public after a review
- # [11:12] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - URL?
- # [11:12] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/minutes
- # [11:13] <hsivonen> linked from the w3.org front page
- # [11:13] <MikeSmith> OK, I'll ask Philippe now
- # [11:13] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: thanks
- # [11:19] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - Philippe's not online, so I went ahead and set it to public. The fact that it's linked to on the home page without a "[member only]" note seems to suggest it definitely was not intended to be member-only
- # [11:19] <MikeSmith> thanks for the heads-up
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- # [11:29] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: thanks
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- # [17:29] <zcorpan> i apologize for initiating a bikeshed topic on public-html
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- # [17:34] <DanC_lap> cite element? or something else, zcorpan ? (I keep forgetting the relationship between IRC nicks and email names)
- # [17:35] <zcorpan> DanC_lap: target=_blank
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- # [17:35] <zcorpan> simonp@opera.com
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- # [17:51] <Julian> zcorpan: I think it's a good discussion to have (target=_blank)
- # [17:53] <zcorpan> Julian: sure
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- # [17:53] <zcorpan> Julian: though, that thread seems to have turned into a bikeshed by now :)
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- # [17:56] <Julian> zcorpan: I admit I didn't read all of it.
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- # [17:58] <DanC_lap> the _blank thread looks mostly healthy; I just wish some test-case-elves were following along.
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- # [18:00] <Philip> What kind of test case would help that thead?
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- # [18:00] * Philip isn't sure what kind of thing would be useful
- # [18:01] <DanC_lap> one where the input document has target="_blank" and the output is "conforming" or "non-conforming"
- # [18:01] <DanC_lap> better if the input documents capture some use cases, such as gmail
- # [18:02] <DanC_lap> the output could also be: new window allowed/required/forbidden
- # [18:03] <DanC_lap> allowed + browser-makes-new-window = pass
- # [18:03] <DanC_lap> allowed + brosers-uses-same-window = pass
- # [18:03] <DanC_lap> required + browser-uses-same-window = fail
- # [18:04] <DanC_lap> forbidden + browser-mades-new-window = fail
- # [18:04] <zcorpan> the thread isn't about what browsers do, but about whether _blank should be conforming for authors
- # [18:04] <DanC_lap> it makes a WG decision straghtforward to phrase
- # [18:05] <Steve_f> dan: is the meeting happening now or have i got the times wrong?
- # [18:05] <DanC_lap> oops
- # [18:05] <sampablokuper> Ditto
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- # [18:05] <DanC_lap> RRSAgent, pointer?
- # [18:05] <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-html-wg-irc#T17-02-43
- # [18:05] <DanC_lap> Zakim, this is html
- # [18:05] <Zakim> ok, DanC_lap; that matches HTML_WG()12:00PM
- # [18:05] <DanC_lap> Zakim, who's on the phone?
- # [18:05] <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.218.340.aaaa, +1.858.354.aabb, +1.212.830.aacc, ??P2, [Microsoft], +049251280aaee
- # [18:05] <DanC_lap> Zakim, call DanC-BOS
- # [18:05] <Zakim> ok, DanC_lap; the call is being made
- # [18:05] <Julian> Zakim, +049251280aaee is me
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +DanC
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +Julian; got it
- # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> zakim, microsoft is me
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +ChrisWilson; got it
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +??P6
- # [18:06] <DanC_lap> Zakim, ??P6 is SteveF
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +SteveF; got it
- # [18:07] <DanC_lap> Zakim, aaaa is Laura
- # [18:07] <Zakim> +Laura; got it
- # [18:07] <DanC_lap> Zakim, aabb is Jerry_S
- # [18:07] <Zakim> +Jerry_S; got it
- # [18:07] <DanC_lap> Zakim, aacc is Dave_B
- # [18:07] <Zakim> +Dave_B; got it
- # [18:07] <Gerrie> Gerrie Shults, not Jerry
- # [18:08] <DanC_lap> agenda + Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-02-21T17:00:00Z
- # [18:08] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
- # [18:08] <DanC_lap> Zakim, take up item 1
- # [18:08] <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-02-21T17:00:00Z" taken up [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:09] <DanC_lap> Zakim, who's on the phone?
- # [18:09] <Zakim> On the phone I see Laura, Jerry_S, Dave_B, ??P2, ChrisWilson, Julian, DanC, SteveF
- # [18:09] <DanC_lap> Laura Carlson
- # [18:10] <Gerrie> Gerrie Shulte
- # [18:10] <Gerrie> Gerrie Shults
- # [18:10] <DanC_lap> Gerrie Shults / HP
- # [18:11] <DanC_lap> David Bills
- # [18:11] <DanC_lap> agenda + SQL statement support [Dave_B]
- # [18:11] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
- # [18:11] <DanC_lap> Zakim, ??P2 is Josh
- # [18:11] <Zakim> +Josh; got it
- # [18:11] <DanC_lap> Joshue O Connor
- # [18:13] <DanC_lap> Steve Faulkner
- # [18:13] <DanC_lap> agenda + orientation, process
- # [18:13] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
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- # [18:14] <DanC_lap> agenda + ISSUE-31 missing-alt
- # [18:14] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
- # [18:14] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
- # [18:14] <DanC_lap> agenda + ISSUE-34 commonality
- # [18:14] * Zakim notes agendum 5 added
- # [18:15] <DanC_lap> agenda + ISSUE-35 aria-processing
- # [18:15] * Zakim notes agendum 6 added
- # [18:15] <DanC_lap> agenda 2 = ISSUE-36 client-side-storage-sql
- # [18:15] * Zakim notes agendum 2 replaced
- # [18:15] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/open
- # [18:16] <DanC_lap> is issue ISSUE-14 aira-role the same as issue-35?
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- # [18:16] <DanC_lap> agenda 6 = ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role
- # [18:16] * Zakim notes agendum 6 replaced
- # [18:18] <DanC_lap> agenda + semantic elements (cite thread, etc.) ACTION-48
- # [18:18] * Zakim notes agendum 7 added
- # [18:19] <DanC_lap> agenda + canvas mailing list (which action?)
- # [18:19] * Zakim notes agendum 8 added
- # [18:19] <DanC_lap> Zakim, agenda?
- # [18:19] <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
- # [18:19] <Zakim> 1. Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-02-21T17:00:00Z [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:19] <Zakim> 2. ISSUE-36 client-side-storage-sql
- # [18:19] <Zakim> 3. orientation, process [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:19] <Zakim> 4. ISSUE-31 missing-alt [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:19] <Zakim> 5. ISSUE-34 commonality [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:19] <Zakim> 6. ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role
- # [18:19] <Zakim> 7. semantic elements (cite thread, etc.) ACTION-48 [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:19] <Zakim> 8. canvas mailing list (which action?) [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:19] <DanC_lap> agenda + ISSUE-32 table-summary
- # [18:19] * Zakim notes agendum 9 added
- # [18:20] <DanC_lap> next meeting 28 Feb, Chris W. to chair (4pm Pacific time)
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- # [18:20] <Steve_f> dan: for issue 35 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0275.html
- # [18:21] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
- # [18:21] <Zakim> agendum 2. "ISSUE-36 client-side-storage-sql" taken up
- # [18:21] <DanC_lap> issue-36 is a design issue...
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- # [18:22] <DanC_lap> see also ISSUE-16 (edit)
- # [18:22] <DanC_lap> offline-applications-sql
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- # [18:22] <DanC_lap> issue-16 is a requirements/scope issue
- # [18:23] <DanC_lap> Zakim, mute me
- # [18:23] <Zakim> sorry, DanC_lap, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- # [18:23] <DanC_lap> Zakim, mute DanC
- # [18:23] <Zakim> DanC should now be muted
- # [18:23] <DanC_lap> Zakim, unmute DanC
- # [18:23] <Zakim> DanC should no longer be muted
- # [18:24] <DanC_lap> Dave, is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0288.html the message you're speaking of?
- # [18:24] * DanC_lap is disinclined to get into design details before we've decided to take this work on
- # [18:25] <ChrisWilson> agrees with Dan - but doesn't understand if "SQL-lite" is descriptive enough to go with currently.
- # [18:26] <anne> it's SQLite
- # [18:26] <ChrisWilson> sorry, someone else mis-typed in an email, and I haven't finished my first cup of coffee.
- # [18:26] <DanC_lap> action-13?
- # [18:26] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-13
- # [18:26] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-13 -- Chris Wilson to talk to WebAPI and WAF WGs about their role in offline API stuff and how they work with and contribute to the discussion -- due 2008-02-21 -- OPEN
- # [18:26] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/13
- # [18:26] <gsnedders> What version of SQLite? Do we have to copy bugs from SQLite?
- # [18:26] <gsnedders> etc.
- # [18:27] <anne> ChrisWilson, no need for apologies, just making sure everyone is talking about the same thing :)
- # [18:27] <DanC_lap> close action-13
- # [18:27] * trackbot-ng attempting to close ACTION-13.
- # [18:27] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-13 Talk to WebAPI and WAF WGs about their role in offline API stuff and how they work with and contribute to the discussion closed
- # [18:27] <DavidFBills> I guess the real question would be whether it would follow the feature set or actually implement the actual code
- # [18:27] <ChrisWilson> So Anne, since you're not on the phone - the question is "is 'SQLite' a defined enough, interoperable spec to refer to?"
- # [18:28] <anne> Probably not. As I said on the mailing list, the plan is to wait for two implementations and to define it then
- # [18:28] <gsnedders> ChrisWilson: SQLite supports most of SQL92 — I think requiring SQL92 support would be easier
- # [18:28] <gsnedders> <http://www.sqlite.org/omitted.html>
- # [18:28] <anne> You don't want all of SQL anyway, as some features don't make sense for client-side storage
- # [18:29] <anne> (encodings, transactions, etc. should probably all be banned from the language as far as this API is concerned)
- # [18:29] <gsnedders> That's true, but it's probably better to define what we need in terms of SQL92 than any implementation
- # [18:29] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.236)
- # [18:29] <anne> I don't see why it needs to be in terms of something else, one more level of indirection
- # [18:29] <DanC_lap> CW: I talked with Chaals about WebAPI/HTML boundaries... they're being re-chartered...
- # [18:30] <DanC_lap> CW: I think we can find editors too...
- # [18:30] <DavidFBills> anne: I agree
- # [18:31] * DavidFBills is now known as dfbills
- # [18:31] * Joins: Josh (Josh@86.45.203.19)
- # [18:31] <DanC_lap> ACTION: Dan check for offline api stuff in WebAPI proposed charter
- # [18:31] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
- # [18:31] * RRSAgent records action 1
- # [18:31] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-53 - Check for offline api stuff in WebAPI proposed charter [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-02-28].
- # [18:31] <Josh> IRC is go ;-)
- # [18:32] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
- # [18:32] <Zakim> agendum 3. "orientation, process" taken up [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:32] <ChrisWilson> agrees with anne - I'd rather NOT have a level of indirection, unless the redirection is to a very definitive specification.
- # [18:32] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tasks83/results
- # [18:33] <oedipus> Extensible HyperText Markup Language Vocabulary namespace
- # [18:33] * oedipus sorry wrong buffer
- # [18:33] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
- # [18:33] <Zakim> agendum 4. "ISSUE-31 missing-alt" taken up [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:33] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
- # [18:34] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31
- # [18:36] <Zakim> -SteveF
- # [18:36] * Joins: deltab (deltab@82.36.30.34)
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> a periodic survey of top web sites
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * M. Jackson Wilkinson
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Sean Fraser
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Terry Morris
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Serdar Kiliç
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Rene Saarsoo
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Patrick Taylor
- # [18:36] <Zakim> +??P6
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Roman Kitainik
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * James VanDyke
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Craig Saila
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Michael Turnwall
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Benjamin Hedrington
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Karl Dubost
- # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Marco Battilana
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Andrew Smith
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Shawn Medero
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Eric Eggert
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Ben Millard
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Thomas Bradley
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Mark Martin
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Balakumar Muthu
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Justin Thorp
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Samuel Santos
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Karl Groves
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> Zakim, ??P6 is SteveF
- # [18:37] <Zakim> +SteveF; got it
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> DanC: Joshue, did you look at missing alt in your video survey?
- # [18:37] <DanC_lap> Joshue: no, but could do...
- # [18:38] <Josh> Would be glad to provide video footage to supplement discussion on @alt issue
- # [18:39] <DanC_lap> "the failure of the HTML5 draft to make
- # [18:39] <DanC_lap> @alt on <img> an across-the-board requirement (even if sometimes
- # [18:39] <DanC_lap> it has the value of "") is a bug."
- # [18:39] <DanC_lap> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0082.html
- # [18:39] <ChrisWilson> if it's required but allowed to be "", why is that any better? Is there a pointer to that discussion somewhere?
- # [18:41] <Josh> The null alt value is ignored by Assistive Technology for one thing.
- # [18:41] <gsnedders> ChrisWilson: the rational seems to be it "is inconsistent with WCAG"
- # [18:41] <ChrisWilson> @Josh I think you're agreeing?
- # [18:41] <gsnedders> (I've never seen any better rational than that, even if there is some)
- # [18:41] <ChrisWilson> @gsnedders umm. yeah.
- # [18:42] <smedero> What is considered a valid source of the "top web sites" if anyone wanted to fire off a crawling job? Alexa's "Top 500 Global Sites"? http://www.alexa.com/site/ds/top_sites?ts_mode=global&lang=none
- # [18:42] <zcorpan> ChrisWilson: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute
- # [18:42] <smedero> I find Alexa to be of questionable trust with respect to traffic numbers but... I don't know who else is publishing something like this... particularly something that either has an XML feed or a screen-scrape friendly front-end for automating the crawl.
- # [18:42] <Josh> @Chris, am not sure yet what I am agreeing to ;-)
- # [18:42] <anne> the PFWG actually failed to address our concerns
- # [18:42] <oedipus> there is going to be the possibility of a null value for an attribute, and in the case of ALT, that should be a "reserved character" -- if you use alt="" it will be skipped and you better damn well make sure that it was only decorative (or a spacer)
- # [18:42] <anne> their argument boils down to: "it should be invalid"
- # [18:42] <oedipus> how so, anne
- # [18:43] <Josh> @Chris One concern is that making the alt value optional send the wrong message to bad developers
- # [18:43] <sampablokuper> Are spacer graphics still considered okay?
- # [18:43] * oedipus doesn't want to call in -- have headache and been in virtual face2face meetings since 3AM
- # [18:44] <zcorpan> sampablokuper: no (they never were)
- # [18:44] <sampablokuper> right; thanks for confirming.
- # [18:44] <Josh> That they can somehow ignore it, which in some cases they can (Spacers or presentation graphics/icons with null values are Ok etc)
- # [18:44] <oedipus> no, spacer gifs are supposed to be supplanted by CSS, but then again, HTML4.x also formally deprecated use of BLOCKQUOTE for stylistic reasons, but like spacers, they continue to be everywhere
- # [18:44] <anne> they can also ignore it by setting alt=randomValue
- # [18:44] <anne> which is the point the PFWG failed to address
- # [18:45] <Philip> sampablokuper, the current HTML5 draft says "The img must not be used as a layout tool. In particular, img elements should not be used to display fully transparent images, as they rarely convey meaning and rarely add anything useful to the document."
- # [18:45] <Josh> @sampa Do you mean spacers GIFs as opposed to icon type or button graphics?
- # [18:45] <Philip> (though that makes some of my canvas test cases non-conforming)
- # [18:45] <sampablokuper> @Josh I was referring to the comment by oedipus above
- # [18:45] * gsnedders why have we all started to use @? Twitter?
- # [18:46] <zcorpan> Philip: (test cases don't need to be conforming)
- # [18:46] <Josh> @sampa no worries
- # [18:46] <oedipus> sampablokuper, did you get my reply
- # [18:46] <sampablokuper> oedipus, yes, thanks
- # [18:46] <oedipus> when you use @foo all 4 screen readers i have here choke and don't speak the word -- that's why i don't like the @foo attribute shorthand
- # [18:46] * Zakim oedipus, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
- # [18:46] <DanC_lap> ACTION: SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements
- # [18:46] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
- # [18:46] * RRSAgent records action 2
- # [18:46] <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - SteveF
- # [18:47] <Josh> back in a minnute
- # [18:48] <DanC_lap> oedipus, can I assign this action to you, for admin purposes?
- # [18:48] <oedipus> yes, dan
- # [18:48] <DanC_lap> ACTION: Gregory work with SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements
- # [18:48] * RRSAgent records action 3
- # [18:48] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
- # [18:48] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-54 - Work with SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-02-28].
- # [18:49] * oedipus don't worry steveF, it's your baby!
- # [18:50] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
- # [18:50] <Zakim> agendum 5. "ISSUE-34 commonality" taken up [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:50] <oedipus> there also is an ancient "accessibility" trick from the days of HTML Wilbur, where one would use invisible 1 pixel images to provide "unobtrusive" context; something now supplanted by WCAG2 Technique C7 (use of overflow to "hide" extra contenxtualizing text to a link that visually says "Real More..." or "See Also..." multiple times on a page
- # [18:51] <dfbills> oh the dreaded spacer.gif
- # [18:52] <DanC_lap> "Can we get access to tools that determine how often markup is used on the web?"
- # [18:53] <dfbills> I've always found it interesting that img alt tags are designed for accessibility, but the most common use would be in lightweight or mobile browsers where the overhead in byte-count actually slows the loading of the code over the network.
- # [18:53] <DanC_lap> CW: clearly these tools are valuable; Microsoft has some and in some cases I might be able to use them for HTML WG purposes
- # [18:53] <DanC_lap> [somebody]: and Ian Hickson can do queries at google sometimes
- # [18:53] <dfbills> Is anyone providing it on the web? or at least statistics similar to netcraft with the server stats?
- # [18:54] <DanC_lap> ACTION: Dan ask the TAG about tag soup measurement techniques
- # [18:54] * RRSAgent records action 4
- # [18:54] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
- # [18:54] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-55 - Ask the TAG about tag soup measurement techniques [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-02-28].
- # [18:54] <gsnedders> dfbills: Phillip Taylor has some data at <http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/survey/2007-07-17/analyse.cgi/index>
- # [18:54] <smedero> It seems like the real issue with the markup analyzation isn't the tools so much as the web-scale data mining hassles.
- # [18:54] <gsnedders> s/Phillip/Philip/
- # [18:54] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
- # [18:54] <Zakim> agendum 6. "ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role" taken up
- # [18:54] <Steve_f> apologies, have to leave now.
- # [18:55] * ChrisWilson agrees with smedero
- # [18:55] <DanC_lap> Zakim, agenda?
- # [18:55] <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
- # [18:55] <Zakim> 6. ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role
- # [18:55] <Zakim> 7. semantic elements (cite thread, etc.) ACTION-48 [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:55] <Zakim> 8. canvas mailing list (which action?) [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:55] <Zakim> 9. ISSUE-32 table-summary [from DanC_lap]
- # [18:55] <oedipus> GJR: i just commented on this issue - i think it is malformed
- # [18:55] <dfbills> smedero: sure- that's why we should target someone with access to search engine data or browser development tools
- # [18:55] <DanC_lap> ADJOUN.
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -Julian
- # [18:55] <Josh> Bye all
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -Dave_B
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -SteveF
- # [18:56] <Zakim> -Laura
- # [18:56] * Quits: dfbills (dfbills@151.204.158.32) (Quit: ...)
- # [18:56] <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0339.html
- # [18:56] <Zakim> -Jerry_S
- # [18:56] <Zakim> -Josh
- # [18:57] <DanC_lap> RRSAgent, draft minutes
- # [18:57] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-html-wg-minutes.html DanC_lap
- # [18:57] <DanC_lap> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
- # [18:57] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, DanC_lap
- # [18:57] <sampablokuper> Sorry, what just happened?
- # [18:57] * Quits: Josh (Josh@86.45.203.19) (Quit: Quitting!)
- # [18:57] <oedipus> i think the meeting ended and they are wrapping the minutes from the IRC log
- # [18:57] * Parts: gsnedders (gsnedders@86.151.228.75)
- # [18:57] <DanC_lap> I proposed to postpone the remaining agenda and adjourn, and all agreed, sampablokuper
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- # [18:58] <sampablokuper> Thanks, DanC
- # [18:58] <DanC_lap> the IRC channel was used for a mix of ordinary IRC chat and transcribing the teleconference; I didn't recruit a dedicated scribe, so it's a bit chaotic.
- # [18:59] * Quits: Gerrie (gshults@76.93.132.114) (Quit: Gerrie)
- # [18:59] <DanC_lap> Meeting: HTML WG Weekly
- # [18:59] <DanC_lap> Chair: DanC
- # [18:59] * oedipus Dan, was Jerry_S really Gerrie_S (gerrie schults)
- # [18:59] <DanC_lap> ah. I wonder how to fix that, oedipus
- # [19:00] <DanC_lap> Zakim, list participants
- # [19:00] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.218.340.aaaa, +1.858.354.aabb, +1.212.830.aacc, +049251280aadd, DanC, Julian, ChrisWilson, SteveF, Laura, Jerry_S, Dave_B, Josh
- # [19:00] <oedipus> present+ Gerrie_Shults
- # [19:00] <oedipus> present- Jerry_S
- # [19:00] <DanC_lap> RRSAgent, draft minutes
- # [19:00] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-html-wg-minutes.html DanC_lap
- # [19:00] * oedipus that should fix it
- # [19:00] <DanC_lap> yup; thanks.
- # [19:00] <oedipus> no problem
- # [19:00] <DanC_lap> now... how to get the minutes to be clear that we didn't actually take up item 6?
- # [19:01] <oedipus> hey, i just know the outsiders' tricks - the only ,tool i can use as non-staff is the plain text generator
- # [19:02] <DanC_lap> well, I'd clean up the minutes manually, but my next teleconference convenes in ... um... now.
- # [19:02] <sampablokuper> DanC, I'm happy to scribe meetings occasionally if you'd like. The only problem is that although I can dial in, I can't necessarily talk much as I'm in a shared office.
- # [19:02] * oedipus agendum- is the obverse of adding an agenda item, righ?
- # [19:02] * oedipus or you can let mikeTMsmith worry about it
- # [19:02] <DanC_lap> good to know, sampablokuper ; were you on the call today?
- # [19:03] <sampablokuper> No, I wasn't, but I can be in future.
- # [19:03] <sampablokuper> (As long as it's understood that during work hours I won't be able to say much on the phone, to avoid disturbing my colleagues in Cambridg University Library)
- # [19:03] <sampablokuper> Oops Cambridge :)
- # [19:04] <oedipus> you don't need to minutes the "shush"es
- # [19:04] <sampablokuper> ;)
- # [19:04] <oedipus> by the way, to correct when minuting the syntax is "s/wrongword/rightword
- # [19:04] <oedipus> without quotes
- # [19:04] <gsnedders> it's full sed syntax, AFAIK
- # [19:05] <oedipus> Scribe's Quick Start Guide:
- # [19:05] <oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
- # [19:05] <oedipus> RRSAgent IRC Bot Guidebook:
- # [19:05] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
- # [19:05] <oedipus> Zakim Bridge Guidebook:
- # [19:05] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
- # [19:05] <oedipus> bookmark those, and you'll be scribing with the stars...
- # [19:05] <sampablokuper> Thank you, oedipus. I didn't realise sed syntax was popular in irc. Those links are very useful.
- # [19:06] <oedipus> you are quite welcome - as those docs say, they represent the collective wisdom of w3c participants...
- # [19:07] <sampablokuper> Great. Okay, back to work now... Bye, and thanks again.
- # [19:07] <oedipus> danC, did you want to dismiss zakim or let him leave when he gets tired of monitoring the bridge?
- # [19:07] <oedipus> bye
- # [19:07] <gsnedders> oedipus: he normally just lets him leave
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- # [19:08] <oedipus> ok, thanks, gsnedders
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- # [19:37] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, DanC, in HTML_WG()12:00PM
- # [19:37] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
- # [19:37] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.218.340.aaaa, +1.858.354.aabb, +1.212.830.aacc, +049251280aadd, DanC, Julian, ChrisWilson, SteveF, Laura, Jerry_S, Dave_B, Josh
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- # [20:55] * Philip sees six users of class=adr, plus another six on Wikipedia, out of 15K
- # [20:55] <Philip> (and 57 with class=address)
- # [20:56] <Hixie> hm, better than i expected
- # [20:56] <Hixie> still pretty abysmal though
- # [20:59] <Philip> (There's 7 with class=vcard, plus 12 on Wikipedia and 5 on Blogspot)
- # [21:00] <Philip> ((counting people with class="contact vcard" etc too))
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- # [21:11] <Hixie> oh well do the cases with class=vcard and the cases with class=adr overlap?
- # [21:11] <Hixie> because adr is a part of vcard that was taken out into its own mf
- # [21:16] <Philip> Of the 6 non-Wikipedia with adr, 4 also have vcard, 1 is http://www.spezial.ru/ which looks like it's not an address, and 1 is http://www.klaardesign.se/ which looks like it's not a microformatted address
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- # [21:18] <Philip> I think adr isn't meant to be used by itself - it's just been split out so it can be reused as a component of other microformats (which currently is only hcard)
- # [21:18] <Philip> Oh, but I think wrong
- # [21:18] <Philip> because http://microformats.org/wiki/adr explicitly mentions some adr-not-in-hcard examples
- # [21:22] <Philip> It's used much more than <q> anyway, so it's not doing too badly
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- # [21:23] <Hixie> yeah
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The end :)