/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-02-21 / end

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  57. # [03:40] <RelDrgn> hm, I predict that this is probably a wholly inappropriate place to mention this, but the last revision of Overview.html truncated the file in the middle (Changes since 1.425: +1 -30610 lines)
  58. # [03:43] <RelDrgn> (referring to http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ )
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  88. # [11:06] <hsivonen> are the video workshop minutes Member-only on purpose? I though they were supposed to be public after a review
  89. # [11:12] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - URL?
  90. # [11:12] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/minutes
  91. # [11:13] <hsivonen> linked from the w3.org front page
  92. # [11:13] <MikeSmith> OK, I'll ask Philippe now
  93. # [11:13] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: thanks
  94. # [11:19] <MikeSmith> hsivonen - Philippe's not online, so I went ahead and set it to public. The fact that it's linked to on the home page without a "[member only]" note seems to suggest it definitely was not intended to be member-only
  95. # [11:19] <MikeSmith> thanks for the heads-up
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  97. # [11:29] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: thanks
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  135. # [17:29] <zcorpan> i apologize for initiating a bikeshed topic on public-html
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  137. # [17:34] <DanC_lap> cite element? or something else, zcorpan ? (I keep forgetting the relationship between IRC nicks and email names)
  138. # [17:35] <zcorpan> DanC_lap: target=_blank
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  140. # [17:35] <zcorpan> simonp@opera.com
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  143. # [17:51] <Julian> zcorpan: I think it's a good discussion to have (target=_blank)
  144. # [17:53] <zcorpan> Julian: sure
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  146. # [17:53] <zcorpan> Julian: though, that thread seems to have turned into a bikeshed by now :)
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  148. # [17:56] <Julian> zcorpan: I admit I didn't read all of it.
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  150. # [17:58] <DanC_lap> the _blank thread looks mostly healthy; I just wish some test-case-elves were following along.
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  152. # [18:00] <Philip> What kind of test case would help that thead?
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  155. # [18:00] * Philip isn't sure what kind of thing would be useful
  156. # [18:01] <DanC_lap> one where the input document has target="_blank" and the output is "conforming" or "non-conforming"
  157. # [18:01] <DanC_lap> better if the input documents capture some use cases, such as gmail
  158. # [18:02] <DanC_lap> the output could also be: new window allowed/required/forbidden
  159. # [18:03] <DanC_lap> allowed + browser-makes-new-window = pass
  160. # [18:03] <DanC_lap> allowed + brosers-uses-same-window = pass
  161. # [18:03] <DanC_lap> required + browser-uses-same-window = fail
  162. # [18:04] <DanC_lap> forbidden + browser-mades-new-window = fail
  163. # [18:04] <zcorpan> the thread isn't about what browsers do, but about whether _blank should be conforming for authors
  164. # [18:04] <DanC_lap> it makes a WG decision straghtforward to phrase
  165. # [18:05] <Steve_f> dan: is the meeting happening now or have i got the times wrong?
  166. # [18:05] <DanC_lap> oops
  167. # [18:05] <sampablokuper> Ditto
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  169. # [18:05] <DanC_lap> RRSAgent, pointer?
  170. # [18:05] <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-html-wg-irc#T17-02-43
  171. # [18:05] <DanC_lap> Zakim, this is html
  172. # [18:05] <Zakim> ok, DanC_lap; that matches HTML_WG()12:00PM
  173. # [18:05] <DanC_lap> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  174. # [18:05] <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.218.340.aaaa, +1.858.354.aabb, +1.212.830.aacc, ??P2, [Microsoft], +049251280aaee
  175. # [18:05] <DanC_lap> Zakim, call DanC-BOS
  176. # [18:05] <Zakim> ok, DanC_lap; the call is being made
  177. # [18:05] <Julian> Zakim, +049251280aaee is me
  178. # [18:05] <Zakim> +DanC
  179. # [18:05] <Zakim> +Julian; got it
  180. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> zakim, microsoft is me
  181. # [18:06] <Zakim> +ChrisWilson; got it
  182. # [18:06] <Zakim> +??P6
  183. # [18:06] <DanC_lap> Zakim, ??P6 is SteveF
  184. # [18:06] <Zakim> +SteveF; got it
  185. # [18:07] <DanC_lap> Zakim, aaaa is Laura
  186. # [18:07] <Zakim> +Laura; got it
  187. # [18:07] <DanC_lap> Zakim, aabb is Jerry_S
  188. # [18:07] <Zakim> +Jerry_S; got it
  189. # [18:07] <DanC_lap> Zakim, aacc is Dave_B
  190. # [18:07] <Zakim> +Dave_B; got it
  191. # [18:07] <Gerrie> Gerrie Shults, not Jerry
  192. # [18:08] <DanC_lap> agenda + Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-02-21T17:00:00Z
  193. # [18:08] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  194. # [18:08] <DanC_lap> Zakim, take up item 1
  195. # [18:08] <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-02-21T17:00:00Z" taken up [from DanC_lap]
  196. # [18:09] <DanC_lap> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  197. # [18:09] <Zakim> On the phone I see Laura, Jerry_S, Dave_B, ??P2, ChrisWilson, Julian, DanC, SteveF
  198. # [18:09] <DanC_lap> Laura Carlson
  199. # [18:10] <Gerrie> Gerrie Shulte
  200. # [18:10] <Gerrie> Gerrie Shults
  201. # [18:10] <DanC_lap> Gerrie Shults / HP
  202. # [18:11] <DanC_lap> David Bills
  203. # [18:11] <DanC_lap> agenda + SQL statement support [Dave_B]
  204. # [18:11] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
  205. # [18:11] <DanC_lap> Zakim, ??P2 is Josh
  206. # [18:11] <Zakim> +Josh; got it
  207. # [18:11] <DanC_lap> Joshue O Connor
  208. # [18:13] <DanC_lap> Steve Faulkner
  209. # [18:13] <DanC_lap> agenda + orientation, process
  210. # [18:13] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
  211. # [18:14] * Joins: dfbills (dfbills@151.204.158.32)
  212. # [18:14] <DanC_lap> agenda + ISSUE-31 missing-alt
  213. # [18:14] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
  214. # [18:14] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
  215. # [18:14] <DanC_lap> agenda + ISSUE-34 commonality
  216. # [18:14] * Zakim notes agendum 5 added
  217. # [18:15] <DanC_lap> agenda + ISSUE-35 aria-processing
  218. # [18:15] * Zakim notes agendum 6 added
  219. # [18:15] <DanC_lap> agenda 2 = ISSUE-36 client-side-storage-sql
  220. # [18:15] * Zakim notes agendum 2 replaced
  221. # [18:15] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/open
  222. # [18:16] <DanC_lap> is issue ISSUE-14 aira-role the same as issue-35?
  223. # [18:16] * Quits: dfbills (dfbills@151.204.158.32) (Client exited)
  224. # [18:16] <DanC_lap> agenda 6 = ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role
  225. # [18:16] * Zakim notes agendum 6 replaced
  226. # [18:18] <DanC_lap> agenda + semantic elements (cite thread, etc.) ACTION-48
  227. # [18:18] * Zakim notes agendum 7 added
  228. # [18:19] <DanC_lap> agenda + canvas mailing list (which action?)
  229. # [18:19] * Zakim notes agendum 8 added
  230. # [18:19] <DanC_lap> Zakim, agenda?
  231. # [18:19] <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
  232. # [18:19] <Zakim> 1. Convene HTML WG teleconference of 2008-02-21T17:00:00Z [from DanC_lap]
  233. # [18:19] <Zakim> 2. ISSUE-36 client-side-storage-sql
  234. # [18:19] <Zakim> 3. orientation, process [from DanC_lap]
  235. # [18:19] <Zakim> 4. ISSUE-31 missing-alt [from DanC_lap]
  236. # [18:19] <Zakim> 5. ISSUE-34 commonality [from DanC_lap]
  237. # [18:19] <Zakim> 6. ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role
  238. # [18:19] <Zakim> 7. semantic elements (cite thread, etc.) ACTION-48 [from DanC_lap]
  239. # [18:19] <Zakim> 8. canvas mailing list (which action?) [from DanC_lap]
  240. # [18:19] <DanC_lap> agenda + ISSUE-32 table-summary
  241. # [18:19] * Zakim notes agendum 9 added
  242. # [18:20] <DanC_lap> next meeting 28 Feb, Chris W. to chair (4pm Pacific time)
  243. # [18:20] * Joins: milesdefeyter (milesdefey@64.236.128.9)
  244. # [18:20] <Steve_f> dan: for issue 35 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0275.html
  245. # [18:21] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
  246. # [18:21] <Zakim> agendum 2. "ISSUE-36 client-side-storage-sql" taken up
  247. # [18:21] <DanC_lap> issue-36 is a design issue...
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  249. # [18:22] <DanC_lap> see also ISSUE-16 (edit)
  250. # [18:22] <DanC_lap> offline-applications-sql
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  253. # [18:22] <DanC_lap> issue-16 is a requirements/scope issue
  254. # [18:23] <DanC_lap> Zakim, mute me
  255. # [18:23] <Zakim> sorry, DanC_lap, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
  256. # [18:23] <DanC_lap> Zakim, mute DanC
  257. # [18:23] <Zakim> DanC should now be muted
  258. # [18:23] <DanC_lap> Zakim, unmute DanC
  259. # [18:23] <Zakim> DanC should no longer be muted
  260. # [18:24] <DanC_lap> Dave, is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0288.html the message you're speaking of?
  261. # [18:24] * DanC_lap is disinclined to get into design details before we've decided to take this work on
  262. # [18:25] <ChrisWilson> agrees with Dan - but doesn't understand if "SQL-lite" is descriptive enough to go with currently.
  263. # [18:26] <anne> it's SQLite
  264. # [18:26] <ChrisWilson> sorry, someone else mis-typed in an email, and I haven't finished my first cup of coffee.
  265. # [18:26] <DanC_lap> action-13?
  266. # [18:26] * trackbot-ng getting information on ACTION-13
  267. # [18:26] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-13 -- Chris Wilson to talk to WebAPI and WAF WGs about their role in offline API stuff and how they work with and contribute to the discussion -- due 2008-02-21 -- OPEN
  268. # [18:26] <trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/13
  269. # [18:26] <gsnedders> What version of SQLite? Do we have to copy bugs from SQLite?
  270. # [18:26] <gsnedders> etc.
  271. # [18:27] <anne> ChrisWilson, no need for apologies, just making sure everyone is talking about the same thing :)
  272. # [18:27] <DanC_lap> close action-13
  273. # [18:27] * trackbot-ng attempting to close ACTION-13.
  274. # [18:27] <trackbot-ng> ACTION-13 Talk to WebAPI and WAF WGs about their role in offline API stuff and how they work with and contribute to the discussion closed
  275. # [18:27] <DavidFBills> I guess the real question would be whether it would follow the feature set or actually implement the actual code
  276. # [18:27] <ChrisWilson> So Anne, since you're not on the phone - the question is "is 'SQLite' a defined enough, interoperable spec to refer to?"
  277. # [18:28] <anne> Probably not. As I said on the mailing list, the plan is to wait for two implementations and to define it then
  278. # [18:28] <gsnedders> ChrisWilson: SQLite supports most of SQL92 — I think requiring SQL92 support would be easier
  279. # [18:28] <gsnedders> <http://www.sqlite.org/omitted.html>
  280. # [18:28] <anne> You don't want all of SQL anyway, as some features don't make sense for client-side storage
  281. # [18:29] <anne> (encodings, transactions, etc. should probably all be banned from the language as far as this API is concerned)
  282. # [18:29] <gsnedders> That's true, but it's probably better to define what we need in terms of SQL92 than any implementation
  283. # [18:29] * Joins: aroben (aroben@17.203.12.236)
  284. # [18:29] <anne> I don't see why it needs to be in terms of something else, one more level of indirection
  285. # [18:29] <DanC_lap> CW: I talked with Chaals about WebAPI/HTML boundaries... they're being re-chartered...
  286. # [18:30] <DanC_lap> CW: I think we can find editors too...
  287. # [18:30] <DavidFBills> anne: I agree
  288. # [18:31] * DavidFBills is now known as dfbills
  289. # [18:31] * Joins: Josh (Josh@86.45.203.19)
  290. # [18:31] <DanC_lap> ACTION: Dan check for offline api stuff in WebAPI proposed charter
  291. # [18:31] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  292. # [18:31] * RRSAgent records action 1
  293. # [18:31] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-53 - Check for offline api stuff in WebAPI proposed charter [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-02-28].
  294. # [18:31] <Josh> IRC is go ;-)
  295. # [18:32] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
  296. # [18:32] <Zakim> agendum 3. "orientation, process" taken up [from DanC_lap]
  297. # [18:32] <ChrisWilson> agrees with anne - I'd rather NOT have a level of indirection, unless the redirection is to a very definitive specification.
  298. # [18:32] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tasks83/results
  299. # [18:33] <oedipus> Extensible HyperText Markup Language Vocabulary namespace
  300. # [18:33] * oedipus sorry wrong buffer
  301. # [18:33] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
  302. # [18:33] <Zakim> agendum 4. "ISSUE-31 missing-alt" taken up [from DanC_lap]
  303. # [18:33] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  304. # [18:34] <DanC_lap> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31
  305. # [18:36] <Zakim> -SteveF
  306. # [18:36] * Joins: deltab (deltab@82.36.30.34)
  307. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> a periodic survey of top web sites
  308. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * M. Jackson Wilkinson
  309. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Sean Fraser
  310. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Terry Morris
  311. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Serdar Kiliç
  312. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Rene Saarsoo
  313. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Patrick Taylor
  314. # [18:36] <Zakim> +??P6
  315. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Roman Kitainik
  316. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * James VanDyke
  317. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Craig Saila
  318. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Michael Turnwall
  319. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Benjamin Hedrington
  320. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Karl Dubost
  321. # [18:36] <DanC_lap> * Marco Battilana
  322. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Andrew Smith
  323. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Shawn Medero
  324. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Eric Eggert
  325. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Ben Millard
  326. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Thomas Bradley
  327. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Mark Martin
  328. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Balakumar Muthu
  329. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Justin Thorp
  330. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Samuel Santos
  331. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> * Karl Groves
  332. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> Zakim, ??P6 is SteveF
  333. # [18:37] <Zakim> +SteveF; got it
  334. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> DanC: Joshue, did you look at missing alt in your video survey?
  335. # [18:37] <DanC_lap> Joshue: no, but could do...
  336. # [18:38] <Josh> Would be glad to provide video footage to supplement discussion on @alt issue
  337. # [18:39] <DanC_lap> "the failure of the HTML5 draft to make
  338. # [18:39] <DanC_lap> @alt on <img> an across-the-board requirement (even if sometimes
  339. # [18:39] <DanC_lap> it has the value of &quot;&quot;) is a bug."
  340. # [18:39] <DanC_lap> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0082.html
  341. # [18:39] <ChrisWilson> if it's required but allowed to be "", why is that any better? Is there a pointer to that discussion somewhere?
  342. # [18:41] <Josh> The null alt value is ignored by Assistive Technology for one thing.
  343. # [18:41] <gsnedders> ChrisWilson: the rational seems to be it "is inconsistent with WCAG"
  344. # [18:41] <ChrisWilson> @Josh I think you're agreeing?
  345. # [18:41] <gsnedders> (I've never seen any better rational than that, even if there is some)
  346. # [18:41] <ChrisWilson> @gsnedders umm. yeah.
  347. # [18:42] <smedero> What is considered a valid source of the "top web sites" if anyone wanted to fire off a crawling job? Alexa's "Top 500 Global Sites"? http://www.alexa.com/site/ds/top_sites?ts_mode=global&lang=none
  348. # [18:42] <zcorpan> ChrisWilson: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute
  349. # [18:42] <smedero> I find Alexa to be of questionable trust with respect to traffic numbers but... I don't know who else is publishing something like this... particularly something that either has an XML feed or a screen-scrape friendly front-end for automating the crawl.
  350. # [18:42] <Josh> @Chris, am not sure yet what I am agreeing to ;-)
  351. # [18:42] <anne> the PFWG actually failed to address our concerns
  352. # [18:42] <oedipus> there is going to be the possibility of a null value for an attribute, and in the case of ALT, that should be a "reserved character" -- if you use alt="" it will be skipped and you better damn well make sure that it was only decorative (or a spacer)
  353. # [18:42] <anne> their argument boils down to: "it should be invalid"
  354. # [18:42] <oedipus> how so, anne
  355. # [18:43] <Josh> @Chris One concern is that making the alt value optional send the wrong message to bad developers
  356. # [18:43] <sampablokuper> Are spacer graphics still considered okay?
  357. # [18:43] * oedipus doesn't want to call in -- have headache and been in virtual face2face meetings since 3AM
  358. # [18:44] <zcorpan> sampablokuper: no (they never were)
  359. # [18:44] <sampablokuper> right; thanks for confirming.
  360. # [18:44] <Josh> That they can somehow ignore it, which in some cases they can (Spacers or presentation graphics/icons with null values are Ok etc)
  361. # [18:44] <oedipus> no, spacer gifs are supposed to be supplanted by CSS, but then again, HTML4.x also formally deprecated use of BLOCKQUOTE for stylistic reasons, but like spacers, they continue to be everywhere
  362. # [18:44] <anne> they can also ignore it by setting alt=randomValue
  363. # [18:44] <anne> which is the point the PFWG failed to address
  364. # [18:45] <Philip> sampablokuper, the current HTML5 draft says "The img must not be used as a layout tool. In particular, img elements should not be used to display fully transparent images, as they rarely convey meaning and rarely add anything useful to the document."
  365. # [18:45] <Josh> @sampa Do you mean spacers GIFs as opposed to icon type or button graphics?
  366. # [18:45] <Philip> (though that makes some of my canvas test cases non-conforming)
  367. # [18:45] <sampablokuper> @Josh I was referring to the comment by oedipus above
  368. # [18:45] * gsnedders why have we all started to use @? Twitter?
  369. # [18:46] <zcorpan> Philip: (test cases don't need to be conforming)
  370. # [18:46] <Josh> @sampa no worries
  371. # [18:46] <oedipus> sampablokuper, did you get my reply
  372. # [18:46] <sampablokuper> oedipus, yes, thanks
  373. # [18:46] <oedipus> when you use @foo all 4 screen readers i have here choke and don't speak the word -- that's why i don't like the @foo attribute shorthand
  374. # [18:46] * Zakim oedipus, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
  375. # [18:46] <DanC_lap> ACTION: SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements
  376. # [18:46] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  377. # [18:46] * RRSAgent records action 2
  378. # [18:46] <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - SteveF
  379. # [18:47] <Josh> back in a minnute
  380. # [18:48] <DanC_lap> oedipus, can I assign this action to you, for admin purposes?
  381. # [18:48] <oedipus> yes, dan
  382. # [18:48] <DanC_lap> ACTION: Gregory work with SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements
  383. # [18:48] * RRSAgent records action 3
  384. # [18:48] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  385. # [18:48] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-54 - Work with SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2008-02-28].
  386. # [18:49] * oedipus don't worry steveF, it's your baby!
  387. # [18:50] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
  388. # [18:50] <Zakim> agendum 5. "ISSUE-34 commonality" taken up [from DanC_lap]
  389. # [18:50] <oedipus> there also is an ancient "accessibility" trick from the days of HTML Wilbur, where one would use invisible 1 pixel images to provide "unobtrusive" context; something now supplanted by WCAG2 Technique C7 (use of overflow to "hide" extra contenxtualizing text to a link that visually says "Real More..." or "See Also..." multiple times on a page
  390. # [18:51] <dfbills> oh the dreaded spacer.gif
  391. # [18:52] <DanC_lap> "Can we get access to tools that determine how often markup is used on the web?"
  392. # [18:53] <dfbills> I've always found it interesting that img alt tags are designed for accessibility, but the most common use would be in lightweight or mobile browsers where the overhead in byte-count actually slows the loading of the code over the network.
  393. # [18:53] <DanC_lap> CW: clearly these tools are valuable; Microsoft has some and in some cases I might be able to use them for HTML WG purposes
  394. # [18:53] <DanC_lap> [somebody]: and Ian Hickson can do queries at google sometimes
  395. # [18:53] <dfbills> Is anyone providing it on the web? or at least statistics similar to netcraft with the server stats?
  396. # [18:54] <DanC_lap> ACTION: Dan ask the TAG about tag soup measurement techniques
  397. # [18:54] * RRSAgent records action 4
  398. # [18:54] * trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  399. # [18:54] <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-55 - Ask the TAG about tag soup measurement techniques [on Dan Connolly - due 2008-02-28].
  400. # [18:54] <gsnedders> dfbills: Phillip Taylor has some data at <http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/survey/2007-07-17/analyse.cgi/index>
  401. # [18:54] <smedero> It seems like the real issue with the markup analyzation isn't the tools so much as the web-scale data mining hassles.
  402. # [18:54] <gsnedders> s/Phillip/Philip/
  403. # [18:54] <DanC_lap> Zakim, next item
  404. # [18:54] <Zakim> agendum 6. "ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role" taken up
  405. # [18:54] <Steve_f> apologies, have to leave now.
  406. # [18:55] * ChrisWilson agrees with smedero
  407. # [18:55] <DanC_lap> Zakim, agenda?
  408. # [18:55] <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
  409. # [18:55] <Zakim> 6. ISSUE-35 aria-processing , ISSUE-14 aira-role
  410. # [18:55] <Zakim> 7. semantic elements (cite thread, etc.) ACTION-48 [from DanC_lap]
  411. # [18:55] <Zakim> 8. canvas mailing list (which action?) [from DanC_lap]
  412. # [18:55] <Zakim> 9. ISSUE-32 table-summary [from DanC_lap]
  413. # [18:55] <oedipus> GJR: i just commented on this issue - i think it is malformed
  414. # [18:55] <dfbills> smedero: sure- that's why we should target someone with access to search engine data or browser development tools
  415. # [18:55] <DanC_lap> ADJOUN.
  416. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Julian
  417. # [18:55] <Josh> Bye all
  418. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Dave_B
  419. # [18:55] <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
  420. # [18:55] <Zakim> -SteveF
  421. # [18:56] <Zakim> -Laura
  422. # [18:56] * Quits: dfbills (dfbills@151.204.158.32) (Quit: ...)
  423. # [18:56] <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0339.html
  424. # [18:56] <Zakim> -Jerry_S
  425. # [18:56] <Zakim> -Josh
  426. # [18:57] <DanC_lap> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  427. # [18:57] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-html-wg-minutes.html DanC_lap
  428. # [18:57] <DanC_lap> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
  429. # [18:57] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, DanC_lap
  430. # [18:57] <sampablokuper> Sorry, what just happened?
  431. # [18:57] * Quits: Josh (Josh@86.45.203.19) (Quit: Quitting!)
  432. # [18:57] <oedipus> i think the meeting ended and they are wrapping the minutes from the IRC log
  433. # [18:57] * Parts: gsnedders (gsnedders@86.151.228.75)
  434. # [18:57] <DanC_lap> I proposed to postpone the remaining agenda and adjourn, and all agreed, sampablokuper
  435. # [18:58] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@86.151.228.75)
  436. # [18:58] <sampablokuper> Thanks, DanC
  437. # [18:58] <DanC_lap> the IRC channel was used for a mix of ordinary IRC chat and transcribing the teleconference; I didn't recruit a dedicated scribe, so it's a bit chaotic.
  438. # [18:59] * Quits: Gerrie (gshults@76.93.132.114) (Quit: Gerrie)
  439. # [18:59] <DanC_lap> Meeting: HTML WG Weekly
  440. # [18:59] <DanC_lap> Chair: DanC
  441. # [18:59] * oedipus Dan, was Jerry_S really Gerrie_S (gerrie schults)
  442. # [18:59] <DanC_lap> ah. I wonder how to fix that, oedipus
  443. # [19:00] <DanC_lap> Zakim, list participants
  444. # [19:00] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.218.340.aaaa, +1.858.354.aabb, +1.212.830.aacc, +049251280aadd, DanC, Julian, ChrisWilson, SteveF, Laura, Jerry_S, Dave_B, Josh
  445. # [19:00] <oedipus> present+ Gerrie_Shults
  446. # [19:00] <oedipus> present- Jerry_S
  447. # [19:00] <DanC_lap> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  448. # [19:00] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/21-html-wg-minutes.html DanC_lap
  449. # [19:00] * oedipus that should fix it
  450. # [19:00] <DanC_lap> yup; thanks.
  451. # [19:00] <oedipus> no problem
  452. # [19:00] <DanC_lap> now... how to get the minutes to be clear that we didn't actually take up item 6?
  453. # [19:01] <oedipus> hey, i just know the outsiders' tricks - the only ,tool i can use as non-staff is the plain text generator
  454. # [19:02] <DanC_lap> well, I'd clean up the minutes manually, but my next teleconference convenes in ... um... now.
  455. # [19:02] <sampablokuper> DanC, I'm happy to scribe meetings occasionally if you'd like. The only problem is that although I can dial in, I can't necessarily talk much as I'm in a shared office.
  456. # [19:02] * oedipus agendum- is the obverse of adding an agenda item, righ?
  457. # [19:02] * oedipus or you can let mikeTMsmith worry about it
  458. # [19:02] <DanC_lap> good to know, sampablokuper ; were you on the call today?
  459. # [19:03] <sampablokuper> No, I wasn't, but I can be in future.
  460. # [19:03] <sampablokuper> (As long as it's understood that during work hours I won't be able to say much on the phone, to avoid disturbing my colleagues in Cambridg University Library)
  461. # [19:03] <sampablokuper> Oops Cambridge :)
  462. # [19:04] <oedipus> you don't need to minutes the "shush"es
  463. # [19:04] <sampablokuper> ;)
  464. # [19:04] <oedipus> by the way, to correct when minuting the syntax is "s/wrongword/rightword
  465. # [19:04] <oedipus> without quotes
  466. # [19:04] <gsnedders> it's full sed syntax, AFAIK
  467. # [19:05] <oedipus> Scribe's Quick Start Guide:
  468. # [19:05] <oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  469. # [19:05] <oedipus> RRSAgent IRC Bot Guidebook:
  470. # [19:05] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
  471. # [19:05] <oedipus> Zakim Bridge Guidebook:
  472. # [19:05] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
  473. # [19:05] <oedipus> bookmark those, and you'll be scribing with the stars...
  474. # [19:05] <sampablokuper> Thank you, oedipus. I didn't realise sed syntax was popular in irc. Those links are very useful.
  475. # [19:06] <oedipus> you are quite welcome - as those docs say, they represent the collective wisdom of w3c participants...
  476. # [19:07] <sampablokuper> Great. Okay, back to work now... Bye, and thanks again.
  477. # [19:07] <oedipus> danC, did you want to dismiss zakim or let him leave when he gets tired of monitoring the bridge?
  478. # [19:07] <oedipus> bye
  479. # [19:07] <gsnedders> oedipus: he normally just lets him leave
  480. # [19:07] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121])
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  482. # [19:08] <oedipus> ok, thanks, gsnedders
  483. # [19:08] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.255.100.227)
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  490. # [19:37] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, DanC, in HTML_WG()12:00PM
  491. # [19:37] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  492. # [19:37] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.218.340.aaaa, +1.858.354.aabb, +1.212.830.aacc, +049251280aadd, DanC, Julian, ChrisWilson, SteveF, Laura, Jerry_S, Dave_B, Josh
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  511. # [20:55] * Philip sees six users of class=adr, plus another six on Wikipedia, out of 15K
  512. # [20:55] <Philip> (and 57 with class=address)
  513. # [20:56] <Hixie> hm, better than i expected
  514. # [20:56] <Hixie> still pretty abysmal though
  515. # [20:59] <Philip> (There's 7 with class=vcard, plus 12 on Wikipedia and 5 on Blogspot)
  516. # [21:00] <Philip> ((counting people with class="contact vcard" etc too))
  517. # [21:04] * Joins: milesdefeyter (milesdefey@64.236.128.9)
  518. # [21:11] <Hixie> oh well do the cases with class=vcard and the cases with class=adr overlap?
  519. # [21:11] <Hixie> because adr is a part of vcard that was taken out into its own mf
  520. # [21:16] <Philip> Of the 6 non-Wikipedia with adr, 4 also have vcard, 1 is http://www.spezial.ru/ which looks like it's not an address, and 1 is http://www.klaardesign.se/ which looks like it's not a microformatted address
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  523. # [21:18] <Philip> I think adr isn't meant to be used by itself - it's just been split out so it can be reused as a component of other microformats (which currently is only hcard)
  524. # [21:18] <Philip> Oh, but I think wrong
  525. # [21:18] <Philip> because http://microformats.org/wiki/adr explicitly mentions some adr-not-in-hcard examples
  526. # [21:22] <Philip> It's used much more than <q> anyway, so it's not doing too badly
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  528. # [21:23] <Hixie> yeah
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The end :)