/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-06-12 / end

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  12. # [00:57] <Lachy> what the? I thought Mike being appointed co-chair was from now until further notice.
  13. # [00:58] <Hixie> i'm confused
  14. # [00:58] <Lachy> me too
  15. # [00:59] <Lachy> If it's just while Dan was away last week, it really seems kind of silly to appoint a new co-chair.
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  87. # [07:14] * Topic is 'HTML WG telcon 05 June 16:00Z | http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda | this channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
  88. # [07:14] * Set by MikeSmith on Thu Jun 05 09:49:33
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  113. # [10:53] * anne is surprised the HTML WG chair issue hasn't been sorted out yet
  114. # [10:55] <mjs> I don't even understand what the issue is
  115. # [10:55] <mjs> I am now very confused
  116. # [10:56] <Hixie> i'm very confused too
  117. # [10:56] <Hixie> i don't know who the chairs are, and i don't know what the issue tracking mechanism is
  118. # [10:56] <Hixie> i really have no idea how to interact with the htmlwg any more
  119. # [10:57] <anne> maybe they have some internal meeting on it first
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  127. # [11:55] <Hixie> MikeSmith: what's the link to this famed bugzilla?
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  130. # [12:00] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/
  131. # [12:01] <MikeSmith> Hixie: ↑
  132. # [12:01] <Hixie> wow, an upwards arrow
  133. # [12:01] <Hixie> i really shouldn't be this amazed to see unicode work
  134. # [12:01] * Philip saw a box :-(
  135. # [12:02] <MikeSmith> we been having fun with special chars in Japan for years, even without Unicode
  136. # [12:02] <MikeSmith> └|∵|┐♪┌|∵|┘
  137. # [12:02] <MikeSmith> (^з^)-☆Chu!!
  138. # [12:02] <MikeSmith> etc.
  139. # [12:03] <anne> hmm, MS feedback has various legal notices
  140. # [12:03] <anne> :/
  141. # [12:03] <MikeSmith> Hixie: i don't know how to easily get a list of just the issues for the "HTML WG" "product"
  142. # [12:04] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=HTML+WG&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfiel
  143. # [12:04] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: who gets to mark a bug RESOLVED?
  144. # [12:04] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED
  145. # [12:05] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: that we still need to decide yet
  146. # [12:06] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I suggest letting Hixie and hyatt make the transitions from NEW to ASSIGNED and from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED
  147. # [12:06] <MikeSmith> that sounds workable
  148. # [12:06] <hsivonen> perhaps going from RESOLVED to CLOSED could include more oversight
  149. # [12:06] <MikeSmith> yeah, agreed
  150. # [12:07] <anne> that paper is so confusing
  151. # [12:07] * anne sighs
  152. # [12:08] <Philip> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=ALL+product:HTML
  153. # [12:09] * Philip guesses that's the shortest way
  154. # [12:09] * Hixie wishes he could read the paper
  155. # [12:09] <MikeSmith> this is the one issue I have in there so far:
  156. # [12:09] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5729
  157. # [12:10] <MikeSmith> anne: you went ahead and signed the agreement for the whitepaper?
  158. # [12:10] <MikeSmith> Philip: thanks, that's indeed plenty easy
  159. # [12:11] <anne> I just hit some buttons
  160. # [12:11] * Philip ought to bookmark http://www.squarefree.com/bugzilla/quicksearch-help.html since he can never find it
  161. # [12:11] <MikeSmith> anyway, if we can get this going, I can set up redirects/rewrites with shorter URLs
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  164. # [12:14] <anne> I can't really find much new information in that document apart from a lot of quotes from all over the place confusing the issue
  165. # [12:14] <Hixie> shocking
  166. # [12:14] * anne is not pleased
  167. # [12:15] <Hixie> you have to admire the skill with which they waste our time
  168. # [12:15] <anne> keeps talking about DNS Rebinding and TOC/TOU
  169. # [12:15] <Hixie> i really wouldn't have even thought of posting feedback in this quite innovative manner
  170. # [12:16] <anne> true
  171. # [12:17] <MikeSmith> I suggest each person respond by putting a PDF on his/her website that requires agreeing to a license
  172. # [12:18] <mjs> anne: I assumed the legal notices were BS and ignored them
  173. # [12:18] <anne> I was thinking of using my own proprietary format
  174. # [12:18] <mjs> the whitepaper is lengthy but did not give me much new info
  175. # [12:18] <mjs> I guess I will have to respond though
  176. # [12:18] <anne> well, you owe me a review first :p
  177. # [12:18] <mjs> a review of what?
  178. # [12:18] <anne> access control :)
  179. # [12:18] * mjs has trouble keeping track of these things
  180. # [12:19] <mjs> I suppose I will have to do that to respond to Microsoft's stuff in a fully informed way
  181. # [12:19] <anne> your standards todo list has at least two things: access control/xhr2 and forms tf
  182. # [12:19] <anne> :)
  183. # [12:20] <mjs> the DNS Rebinding thing is nonsense because if your server is vulnerable to a rebinding attack, then there is no need to use cross-site XHR to attack it
  184. # [12:20] <anne> yeah, we can't really ignore them
  185. # [12:21] <anne> TOC/TOU is somewhat BS as the preflight request is an indication of the server that it can deal with cross-site requests
  186. # [12:21] <anne> the server says with that that it does check the Origin header and such
  187. # [12:21] <mjs> and if it is safe against DNS rebinding (checks Host header before doing any POST side effects for instance) then bypassing the method check won't help you
  188. # [12:21] <Hixie> there's a wide gap between ignoring someone and giving them a detailed response
  189. # [12:21] <Hixie> for example, my own response was not to ignore them
  190. # [12:21] <Hixie> but didn't involve even looking at the document
  191. # [12:23] <mjs> it just seems like a good time to smack the FUD down thoroughly, since this is presumably their best shot
  192. # [12:23] <mjs> I'm wondering if any of their feedback might be worth acting on
  193. # [12:24] * tlr is now known as tlr-bbforglobal
  194. # [12:24] <mjs> sending cookies under a different header name sounds like it will reduce risk, but if you affirmatively added an access-control header and misunderstand cookies, you'll probably also choose to process the other cookie header even when you shouldn't
  195. # [12:26] <anne> another proposal I heard for that was adding a crossorigin flag to cookies similar to httponly
  196. # [12:26] <mjs> so only cookies flagged as such would be sent?
  197. # [12:26] <anne> yes
  198. # [12:27] <anne> though you'd also need something for HTTP auth and another problem is that nobody has cookies defined...
  199. # [12:27] <mjs> I'm wondering what kind of server-side mistake this is expected to mitigate
  200. # [12:29] * anne gets a bunch of microsoft.com auto-responders
  201. # [12:30] <anne> I think the idea is that if you optin to access control you don't have to optin to cookies
  202. # [12:30] <mjs> someone who intentionally sends the access-control header, but doesn't realize they may get cookies, so they don't (look for the other header / set the flag)?
  203. # [12:30] <mjs> because I thought the expected mistake was someone who mistakes the authentication properties of a cookie for authorization
  204. # [12:30] <mjs> which is a conceptual-level error and won't be addressed by a change to how cookies are sent
  205. # [12:30] <anne> so the person requesting the data doesn't get the personalized form of the page
  206. # [12:30] <MikeSmith> would really help if Sunava were to copy and paste the full text into an e-mail message and post that to the list
  207. # [12:31] <anne> you might get interesting results with that
  208. # [12:31] <anne> especially with the e-mail clients they use...
  209. # [12:33] <mjs> well, you can opt in to access control and ignore cookies if you choose to
  210. # [12:34] <mjs> though maybe renaming the header makes ignoring cookies easier
  211. # [12:34] <mjs> but it also makes using cookies harder
  212. # [12:37] <anne> another option is to require the server to optin to cookies as in the proposal from Hixie
  213. # [12:37] <anne> another option is to leave the complexity on the server for that scenario as it is now
  214. # [12:41] <mjs> it seems hard to choose between these options
  215. # [12:41] <mjs> they all seem better than social networks prompting me for my gmail account info though
  216. # [12:42] <mjs> anne: congrats on the Opera 9.5 release by the way
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  223. # [13:10] <anne> thanks
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  227. # [13:25] <Julian> it appears XSLT in Opera 9.5 is broken in that the CSS for the transformation result does not get applied:
  228. # [13:25] <Julian> Example: http://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/draft-ietf-httpbis-p1-messaging-latest.xml
  229. # [13:25] <Julian> Sigh.
  230. # [13:26] <anne> in Opera 9.27 it just says fail
  231. # [13:29] <anne> anyways, bugs.opera.com/wizard
  232. # [13:29] <Dashiiva> Tjat
  233. # [13:29] <Dashiiva> *That's a lot of copies of the same xmlns :)
  234. # [13:30] <Julian> anne: yes, 9.27 was even more broken, an earlier version did work at some point of time.
  235. # [13:31] <Julian> anne: what's frustrating is that I have to keep submitting bug reports every time, instead that Opera starts doing regression tests
  236. # [13:31] <anne> we have tons of XSLT regression tests
  237. # [13:32] <anne> last I checked anyway
  238. # [13:32] <Julian> anne: good. then adding another one shouldn't be a problem ;-)
  239. # [13:32] * anne doesn't do much with XSLT
  240. # [13:33] <anne> yeah, I'm sure that fixing this in response to your bug report will involve adding a regression test
  241. # [13:34] <Julian> anne: well, the same kind of resource was broken before, so I would have hoped that that particular test already exists.
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  243. # [13:35] <anne> interesting, well, as I said, I'm not doing QA on this
  244. # [13:43] <Julian> bug-337388@bugs.opera.com
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  250. # [15:18] <anne> Julian, "how would care?"
  251. # [15:18] <anne> ?
  252. # [15:19] <Julian> s/how/who/
  253. # [15:19] <anne> oh, well, gsnedders did apparently
  254. # [15:19] <Julian> I mean, who's running pre HTTP/1.0 servers in practice?
  255. # [15:19] <Julian> I don't think XHR needs to talk about these.
  256. # [15:20] <anne> i don't think so either
  257. # [15:20] <anne> i deferred it to him
  258. # [15:21] <anne> that is, it seems wrong for XHR to deal with these HTTP details
  259. # [15:30] <Julian> Yes. If the response doesn't parse as defined by the HTTP spec, the request failed. If UAs do something else, it may be useful to talk to them.
  260. # [15:30] <anne> or write a HTTP spec that does take UAs into account
  261. # [15:31] <anne> and has UA interop as exit criteria and such
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  284. # [18:04] * Steve_f hi laura
  285. # [18:05] <Laura> Hi Steve
  286. # [18:05] * oedipus aloha!
  287. # [18:07] <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
  288. # [18:07] * trackbot HTML Issue Tracking http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/
  289. # [18:07] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  290. # [18:07] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  291. # [18:07] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  292. # [18:07] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  293. # [18:07] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  294. # [18:07] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  295. # [18:07] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Issue Tracking Teleconference
  296. # [18:07] <trackbot> Date: 12 June 2008
  297. # [18:07] <MikeSmith> Zakim, code?
  298. # [18:07] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), MikeSmith
  299. # [18:07] <oedipus> zakim, phone?
  300. # [18:07] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, oedipus.
  301. # [18:07] <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
  302. # [18:07] <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P6, +1.425.467.aaaa, Gregory_Rosmaita, Laura_Carlson
  303. # [18:07] <Zakim> On IRC I see Laura, oedipus, Steve_f, hober, dbaron, smedero, Lachy, hyatt, Dashiva, ROBOd, zcorpan, tH, Dashiiva, mjs, beowulf, tlr, RRSAgent, jmb, Yudai, marcos, krijn, Navarr,
  304. # [18:07] <Zakim> ... MikeSmith, shepazu, jgraham, gavin, drry, heycam, deane, gsnedders, takkaria, anne, Philip, gavin_, Shunsuke, hsivonen, Hixie, matt, trackbot, xover, jeremy, deltab, t
  305. # [18:08] <smedero> Zakim, ??P6 is me
  306. # [18:08] <Zakim> +smedero; got it
  307. # [18:08] <matt> Present- Matt
  308. # [18:08] <smedero> ooh... actually... it is not.
  309. # [18:08] <smedero> doh
  310. # [18:08] * oedipus it's steve
  311. # [18:08] <smedero> sorry!
  312. # [18:08] <oedipus> want me to fix?
  313. # [18:08] <smedero> Zakim, ??P6 is Steve_F
  314. # [18:08] <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as smedero, smedero
  315. # [18:08] <smedero> sigh.
  316. # [18:08] <oedipus> zakim, aaaa is smedero
  317. # [18:08] <Zakim> +smedero; got it
  318. # [18:09] <smedero> Thanks, oedipus.
  319. # [18:09] <oedipus> zakim, ??P6 is Steve_Faulkner
  320. # [18:09] <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as smedero, oedipus
  321. # [18:09] <smedero> itchy trigger finger there.
  322. # [18:09] <Zakim> +ruilopes
  323. # [18:09] * oedipus smile
  324. # [18:09] <MikeSmith> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  325. # [18:09] <Zakim> On the phone I see smedero, smedero.a, Gregory_Rosmaita, Laura_Carlson, ruilopes
  326. # [18:09] <oedipus> zakim, smedro.a is Steve_Faulkner
  327. # [18:09] <Zakim> sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named 'smedro.a'
  328. # [18:09] <oedipus> zakim, smedero.a is Steve_Faulkner
  329. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Steve_Faulkner; got it
  330. # [18:10] * oedipus finally!
  331. # [18:10] * smedero hangs head
  332. # [18:10] <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
  333. # [18:10] <Zakim> On the phone I see smedero, Steve_Faulkner, Gregory_Rosmaita, Laura_Carlson, ruilopes
  334. # [18:10] <Zakim> On IRC I see Laura, oedipus, Steve_f, hober, dbaron, smedero, Lachy, hyatt, Dashiva, ROBOd, zcorpan, tH, Dashiiva, mjs, beowulf, tlr, RRSAgent, jmb, Yudai, marcos, krijn, Navarr,
  335. # [18:10] <Zakim> ... MikeSmith, shepazu, jgraham, gavin, drry, heycam, deane, gsnedders, takkaria, anne, Philip, gavin_, Shunsuke, hsivonen, Hixie, matt, trackbot, xover, jeremy, deltab, t
  336. # [18:10] <Dashiva> Let's hope you got the right smedero :)
  337. # [18:10] * Lachy is the HTML5 authoring guide on the agenda?
  338. # [18:10] <MikeSmith> Zakim, ruilopes is me
  339. # [18:10] <Zakim> +MikeSmith; got it
  340. # [18:10] <MikeSmith> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  341. # [18:10] <Zakim> On the phone I see smedero, Steve_Faulkner, Gregory_Rosmaita, Laura_Carlson, MikeSmith
  342. # [18:10] * Lachy if so, ping me when it comes up. I have a small update
  343. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> Topic: convene weekly HTML WG issue-tracking telcon
  344. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> Chair: MikeSmith
  345. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> Scribe: MikeSmith
  346. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> ScribeNick: MikeSmith
  347. # [18:11] <smedero> oedipus, I'm not convinced the names are right...
  348. # [18:11] <smedero> but who knows
  349. # [18:11] <smedero> Steve_Faulkner joined before I did... so he should be in the first slot, right?
  350. # [18:12] <oedipus> GJR has 2 agenda requests: 1) ternary state of tracker (formal request of chairs made) and 2) a week's extension for my proposal to the forms task force list as i have had severe infrastructural problems (including an entire day without electricity)
  351. # [18:12] <MikeSmith> minutes from last week: http://www.w3.org/2008/06/05-html-wg-minutes.html
  352. # [18:12] <anne> Zakim, passcode?
  353. # [18:12] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
  354. # [18:12] * oedipus smedero, as long as you are both logged, it's ok
  355. # [18:12] <smedero> k-o
  356. # [18:12] * Joins: adele (adele@192.42.249.16)
  357. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  358. # [18:13] <anne> Zakim, [ is me
  359. # [18:13] <Zakim> +anne; got it
  360. # [18:13] * Lachy is here in the office with anne too
  361. # [18:13] <oedipus> ternary state: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2008Jun/0030.html
  362. # [18:13] <oedipus> chrisW's reply: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2008Jun/0044.html
  363. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> any items to add to the agenda for today?
  364. # [18:14] <MikeSmith> anne: is the chair thing on the agenda?
  365. # [18:14] * zcorpan MikeSmith: Lachy asked about the html5 authoring guide above
  366. # [18:14] <oedipus> who is in a position to say something?
  367. # [18:15] <anne> MS: W3C is discussing this internally, not going to get a resolution in the next hour; please hold your breath
  368. # [18:15] <anne> ... a little longer
  369. # [18:15] * oedipus ok, but i'm bluish
  370. # [18:15] * oedipus or, blue-ish
  371. # [18:15] <anne> MS: hopefully fixed by tomorrow
  372. # [18:16] * Quits: adele (adele@192.42.249.16) (Client exited)
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  374. # [18:16] <MikeSmith> Topic: ternary state of the tracker
  375. # [18:16] <oedipus> my open question to/request of the chairs -- which i made sure was logged
  376. # [18:16] <oedipus> in IRC at today's telecon -- is as follows: when one opens an issue, it is
  377. # [18:16] <oedipus> not marked as "OPEN", but rather as "RAISED" -- can the chairs in their
  378. # [18:16] <oedipus> capacity as chairs, therefor, issue a formal statement to the effect that:
  379. # [18:16] <oedipus> * RAISED equals PROPOSED - proposal will be discussed on list and in
  380. # [18:16] <oedipus> at least 1 telecon before marked as OPEN or quashed
  381. # [18:16] <oedipus> * OPEN equals UNDER ACTIVE CONSIDERATION BY WG
  382. # [18:16] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2008Jun/0030.html
  383. # [18:16] <oedipus> * CLOSE equals Editors/Chairs consider issue resolved - note that
  384. # [18:16] <oedipus> issues should be closed only after being addressed at a telecon, so
  385. # [18:17] <oedipus> that if there is dissent over the resolution, it can be logged and
  386. # [18:17] <oedipus> objectors should be given an opportunity to convince the chairs that
  387. # [18:17] <oedipus> the issue should not be closed
  388. # [18:17] <oedipus> or provide the rationale for not considering "RAISED" issues as "PROPOSED"?
  389. # [18:17] <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
  390. # [18:17] * oedipus waves at shepazu
  391. # [18:17] <smedero> Along these lines, I tried to sort out how we came to the three issue states we currently have: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-issue-tracking/2008Jun/0006.html
  392. # [18:17] <oedipus> why not?
  393. # [18:18] <oedipus> doesn't a plus one from a chair cary weight?
  394. # [18:18] <anne> it doesn't affect the argument
  395. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> MikeSmith: as far as Chris Wilson's +1 message, I don't find that particularly useful
  396. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> ... in general, "+1" messages to the list are rarely, if ever, useful in discussions on the list
  397. # [18:19] <oedipus> shepazu: ignoring plus one messages discourages participation - sometimes there's nothing left to add to a well articulated post
  398. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> shepazu: can I slightly disagree with that?
  399. # [18:21] <Lachy> if there's nothing left to add, then there's little point in posting anything at all.
  400. # [18:21] <oedipus> is following up on issues the responsibility of the issue tracking team?
  401. # [18:22] <Laura> A +1 adds an additional voice of support to a concept or proposal.
  402. # [18:23] <Lachy> the problem with +1's, which we had trouble with back when the group started, is that it floods people's inboxes with mostly useless messages and takes up valuable time from reading potentially more important messages
  403. # [18:23] <shepazu> discouraging "+1" can suppress minority opinion by alienating list members who might have nothing more to say but who do agree with the poster... it's a good way to make sure that only the most vocal are represented in the considerations
  404. # [18:23] <oedipus> q+ to say that we need a statement on behalf of the chairs as to what the three states mean
  405. # [18:23] * Zakim sees oedipus on the speaker queue
  406. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> q+
  407. # [18:23] * Zakim sees oedipus, MikeSmith on the speaker queue
  408. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> q?
  409. # [18:23] * Zakim sees oedipus, MikeSmith on the speaker queue
  410. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> q-
  411. # [18:23] * Zakim sees oedipus on the speaker queue
  412. # [18:23] <oedipus> ack me
  413. # [18:23] <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say that we need a statement on behalf of the chairs as to what the three states mean
  414. # [18:23] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  415. # [18:24] <shepazu> Lachy, agreement by a large number of people *is* something to add
  416. # [18:24] <Lachy> and it seems to imply that the opinion of the person who sent the +1 actually carries weight, when it may well not carry any at all, except in rare cases
  417. # [18:24] <Lachy> shepazu, no, it's not, because it's the quality of the argument, not the quantity of support
  418. # [18:24] <Lachy> that matters
  419. # [18:24] <shepazu> ... unless you are keen on suppressing other opinions from finding a voice
  420. # [18:24] <oedipus> GJR thinks issue raising and tracking needs to be addressed by the chairs so that we can progress towards something resembling stability and consensus
  421. # [18:25] * oedipus not an additional comment, just a precis for the minutes
  422. # [18:25] <shepazu> Lachy, sometimes, but not always... many decisions are simply a matter of what the most people want, and have no deep technical merits to either side
  423. # [18:25] <MikeSmith> MikeSmith: I am not inclined to require that we obligate ourselves to take action on every RAISED issue in any way different than what we have already been doing.
  424. # [18:25] <Steve_f> 'quality of argument' is a qualitative statement, showing support for an argument reinforces the argument
  425. # [18:26] <oedipus> concerned by http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jun/0180.html
  426. # [18:26] <oedipus> especially "same level of response that I give any e-mail sent to the WHATWG
  427. # [18:26] <oedipus> list; that is, given full consideration and given an explicit response.
  428. # [18:27] <Steve_f> q+
  429. # [18:27] * Zakim sees Steve_f on the speaker queue
  430. # [18:27] <oedipus> why not the same consideration to issues raised in the HTML WG?
  431. # [18:27] <oedipus> and on public-html?
  432. # [18:27] * oedipus post cited from hixie
  433. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> MikeSmith: We will be using bugzilla as a means for allowing anybody to raise issues against that spec and to be able to track them.
  434. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> ack Steve_f
  435. # [18:27] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  436. # [18:28] <shepazu> also, it doesn't take long to process a message that says only "+1"
  437. # [18:28] <oedipus> SF: issue - summary attribute been raised twice - how do i get it on issue tracker?
  438. # [18:28] <oedipus> MikeS: appropriate for bugzilla
  439. # [18:28] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Quit: zcorpan)
  440. # [18:28] <oedipus> LC: already in tracker
  441. # [18:29] <oedipus> MikeS: really? what is issue number?
  442. # [18:29] <oedipus> LC: issue 32 - was closed by hixie
  443. # [18:29] <Lachy> +1's should be reserved only for issues where a vote matters, and in which case it should be done with a survey, not a bunch of +1 mails
  444. # [18:30] * Lachy thinks there are probably more important issues to discuss, besides +1
  445. # [18:30] <oedipus> MikeS: other issue is that hixie was told to do what he is doing - when issue in issue tracker and editor done responding to it as editor, he was told to close it out and that's what he's been doing; don't have state in tracker that marks "resolved by editort" -- bugzilla provides far more granularity
  446. # [18:30] <oedipus> MikeS: editor could mark an issue as resolved to his satisfaction in bugzilla
  447. # [18:30] <MikeSmith> issue-32?
  448. # [18:30] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-32
  449. # [18:30] <trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- Include a summary attribute for tables? -- CLOSED
  450. # [18:30] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32
  451. # [18:30] <oedipus> LC: how to get from bugzilla to issue tracker
  452. # [18:31] <oedipus> MikeS: discuss on telecons; number of issues in my estimation don't merit enough attention to be discussed on weekly calls - especially 42 through 50; summary does need resolution, but night and day to GJR's issues
  453. # [18:32] <MikeSmith> issue-32?
  454. # [18:32] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-32
  455. # [18:32] <Steve_f> q+
  456. # [18:32] <trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- Include a summary attribute for tables? -- CLOSED
  457. # [18:32] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32
  458. # [18:32] * Zakim sees Steve_f on the speaker queue
  459. # [18:32] <oedipus> q+ to have chairs address hixie's comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jun/0180.html
  460. # [18:32] * Zakim sees Steve_f, oedipus on the speaker queue
  461. # [18:32] <oedipus> DS: "pending state" needed?
  462. # [18:32] <MikeSmith> issue-32?
  463. # [18:32] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-32
  464. # [18:32] <trackbot> ISSUE-32 -- Include a summary attribute for tables? -- OPEN
  465. # [18:32] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/32
  466. # [18:33] <oedipus> GJR notes to shepazu that that was his original request until he realized that RAISED served the same function
  467. # [18:33] <smedero> Ian closed it because he needed wanted more information....
  468. # [18:34] <oedipus> MikeS: limitation of tracker - resolution needs chairs intervention - reopened issue 32 and will remain open until have a resolution that allows it to be closed; not resolved now -- needs more discussion
  469. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> q?
  470. # [18:34] * Zakim sees Steve_f, oedipus on the speaker queue
  471. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> ack smedero
  472. # [18:34] * Zakim sees Steve_f, oedipus on the speaker queue
  473. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> ack Steve_f
  474. # [18:34] * Zakim sees oedipus on the speaker queue
  475. # [18:34] <oedipus> SF: in situation where have issue considered resolved by editor and chairs, but not by members of WG, how are those issues tracked?
  476. # [18:35] <MikeSmith> Steve_f: in a situation that is considered resolved by the editor and by the chairs, what is the recourse?
  477. # [18:35] <shepazu> oedipus, not quite... raising an issue means that it is in the system to make sure it's considered, while "pending review" can mean that work has been done on it
  478. # [18:35] <oedipus> SF: are some substantial issues that editor considers resolved, but WG members do not - what is resolution path?
  479. # [18:35] <oedipus> shepazu, i was trying to work within the framework of the available tools...
  480. # [18:35] <Lachy> I don't see the value in reopening the summary attribute issue until there are more substantial arguments, that aren't simply rehashing the same arguments from before
  481. # [18:36] <Lachy> I don't think people saying they object to the issue being closed, which is basically all there has been, qualifies as such a reason
  482. # [18:37] <oedipus> SF: marked as closed, reopened, then closed again, then reopened again - not going to be resolved in near future -- WG working on it from different angles, but if doesn't get resolved through conversation/discussion has to be resolved via a vote
  483. # [18:37] <oedipus> MikeS: alt issue closed is same problem with summary
  484. # [18:37] <oedipus> SF: substantive issue not resolved should stay as open issue on tracker
  485. # [18:38] <oedipus> MikeS: will happen going forward - issues will not be closed without my (mikeS) say so
  486. # [18:38] <oedipus> MikeS: should review all closed issues - if any anyone feels closed prematurely, bring up and reopen, as did with summary attribute
  487. # [18:38] <oedipus> ack me
  488. # [18:38] <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to have chairs address hixie's comments in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jun/0180.html
  489. # [18:38] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  490. # [18:39] <oedipus> GJR worried by hixie ignoring issue tracker and WG wiki, but offering to give bugzilla entries the same precedence he gives to WHAT WG feedback -- this is very problematic and unsettling
  491. # [18:40] <MikeSmith> q?
  492. # [18:40] <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jun/0180.html
  493. # [18:40] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  494. # [18:42] <oedipus> MikeS: hixie already said that that is his stance -- if that is "correct" interpretation of his role is a seperate issue
  495. # [18:44] <oedipus> MikeS: Laura, received question about priority of response (WHAT WG over HTML WG) - need to make clearer what are the priority issues and bring them to hixie; complicated by discussion about the issues 42-50 which i don't think merit any special attention than any other issues no matter their origin; those issues were not agreed to as priority
  496. # [18:44] <oedipus> q+
  497. # [18:44] * Zakim sees oedipus on the speaker queue
  498. # [18:44] <oedipus> MikeS: gives me more leverage to get hixie to reprioritize issues
  499. # [18:45] <oedipus> MikeS: will make easier - fact that issues 42-50 raised without review process makes it difficult
  500. # [18:45] <oedipus> MikeS: agree we need to have more of a coordinated consensus about which issues we want to make priorities; cannot insist that every issue raised on public-html more important than those raised anywhere else
  501. # [18:45] <MikeSmith> ?
  502. # [18:45] <MikeSmith> q?
  503. # [18:45] * Zakim sees oedipus on the speaker queue
  504. # [18:46] <MikeSmith> ack oedipus
  505. # [18:46] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  506. # [18:46] <oedipus> GJR how can you say it is not an issue by fiat when those attending calls keep raising them
  507. # [18:48] <oedipus> GJR: what is "review process"? how can we raise issues if no "review process" defined
  508. # [18:48] * Joins: adele_ (adele@192.42.249.145)
  509. # [18:48] <oedipus> MikeS: equally confused by fact that GJR and RobB don't understand difference between an important issue and parochial issues
  510. # [18:49] <oedipus> GJR notes that a blind man's poison is another man's food
  511. # [18:49] <oedipus> MikeS: alt required a show stopper for Last Call; issues 42-50 don't rise to that level
  512. # [18:50] * Quits: adele_ (adele@192.42.249.145) (Connection reset by peer)
  513. # [18:50] * Joins: adele_ (adele@192.42.249.145)
  514. # [18:51] * Quits: adele (adele@192.42.249.16) (Ping timeout)
  515. # [18:51] <oedipus> MikeS: same level as other issues floated on list - if everyone in community who wanted to make their own issue a special priority, there would be no way for us to track issues with real priority; tracker needs to be a place where we are looking only at high priority issues
  516. # [18:51] <oedipus> MikeS: need to formulate a way to define issues that rise to issue tracker level
  517. # [18:51] <shepazu> q+
  518. # [18:51] * Zakim sees shepazu on the speaker queue
  519. # [18:52] <MikeSmith> q?
  520. # [18:52] * Zakim sees shepazu on the speaker queue
  521. # [18:52] <oedipus> MikeS: another class of issues: issues raised by other working groups; example: issue added on behalf of Al Gilman (chair of PF); issues that affect relationships with other WGs or other specifications, need to be resolved at highest priority; need to resolve issue now or during last call -- that's the kind of issue that should go on tracker
  522. # [18:52] <MikeSmith> ack shepazu
  523. # [18:52] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  524. # [18:52] <Steve_f> q+
  525. # [18:52] * Zakim sees Steve_f on the speaker queue
  526. # [18:53] <oedipus> DS: only flaw is that criteria hasn't been made clear to group; need to declare how things are given issue status - as important as "principles of operation" - group decides on system to manage issues and actions - should be codified someplace
  527. # [18:53] <oedipus> GJR: looking for clarification from chairs
  528. # [18:54] <oedipus> GJR: original comments on MS in role as staff contact, not as chair or whatever
  529. # [18:55] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/#issues
  530. # [18:55] <oedipus> MikeS: not documented by me so far -- added statement to WG homepage
  531. # [18:55] <oedipus> MikeS: probably needs more detail -- will provide and send out to list to ensure everybody aware of policy
  532. # [18:55] <oedipus> DS: that would be very helpful - detail you went into today about LC is very important
  533. # [18:56] <Steve_f> +1 to that
  534. # [18:56] <Laura> +1 from me too
  535. # [18:56] <oedipus> MikeS: recognize that this is a problem, but trying to prioritize issues -- getting working draft published taken time, now that it has been published, have more time to pay to details
  536. # [18:57] <oedipus> DS: know you're doing double-duty - perhaps co-chair could help out more with day-to-day WG decisions
  537. # [18:57] <oedipus> MikeS: will discuss with him when returns from vacation
  538. # [18:57] <MikeSmith> q?
  539. # [18:57] * Zakim sees Steve_f on the speaker queue
  540. # [18:57] <MikeSmith> ack Steve_f
  541. # [18:57] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  542. # [18:58] <oedipus> SF: an issue brought to PF's attention and they consider it to be substantive, and that is communicated to HTML WG, would that get on Issue Tracker as open issue?
  543. # [18:59] <oedipus> MikeS: will say unequivocally that any issue from another WG will get into tracker and be addressed; that is W3C process;
  544. # [18:59] <MikeSmith> q?
  545. # [18:59] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  546. # [18:59] <oedipus> SF: thanks for clarification
  547. # [18:59] <Lachy> HTML5 Authoring Guide
  548. # [18:59] <oedipus> MikeS: any other topics to be added?
  549. # [18:59] <oedipus> scribeNick: oedipus
  550. # [18:59] <oedipus> MikeS: Lachy been working on HTML Authoring Guidelines
  551. # [18:59] <shepazu> Lachy++
  552. # [18:59] <Lachy> I've made some updates to the authoring guide, focussing mainly on the syntax section
  553. # [19:00] <MikeSmith> Topic: HTML Authoring Guide
  554. # [19:00] <Lachy> http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/#elements
  555. # [19:00] <oedipus> MikeS: checked in changes - current version in CVS reflects latest changes, right?
  556. # [19:00] <Lachy> I'm going to try and get something worth publishing as an FPWD within the next couple of weeks
  557. # [19:00] <Lachy> yes, I checked in the most recent changes about 30 minutes ago
  558. # [19:01] <oedipus> LH: brief summary of changes - added syntax change descriptions, differences between HTML and XHTML - will add major elements to section after that and hope to have draft ready for publication in a week or 2
  559. # [19:02] <oedipus> MikeS: want to stick to 3 month heartbeat req; next version of spec in September 2008; would like something publishable at least a month before next heartbeat release
  560. # [19:02] <oedipus> MikeS: 10 September 2008
  561. # [19:03] <oedipus> MikeS: another useful thing would be to give a heads up on public-html list and give a summary of what you've changed
  562. # [19:03] <oedipus> LH: ok
  563. # [19:03] <MikeSmith> q?
  564. # [19:03] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  565. # [19:03] <oedipus> MikeS: thanks for your work - great to see the document moving along
  566. # [19:03] <oedipus> TOPIC: Open Issues and Actions
  567. # [19:04] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
  568. # [19:04] <oedipus> MikeS: for action 54 remind me where we are at?
  569. # [19:04] <MikeSmith> action-54?
  570. # [19:04] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-54
  571. # [19:04] <trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Gregory Rosmaita to work with SteveF draft text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements -- due 2008-06-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  572. # [19:04] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54
  573. # [19:04] <anne> Is it ok if Lachy and I leave now for some food?
  574. # [19:04] * Lachy waves good bye
  575. # [19:05] <MikeSmith> oedipus: still awaiting response from PF ... aiming to have that by next week's call
  576. # [19:05] * anne assumes it is, good day!
  577. # [19:05] * MikeSmith anne, fine by me
  578. # [19:05] * anne great
  579. # [19:05] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  580. # [19:05] <Zakim> -anne
  581. # [19:05] <oedipus> MikeS: current due date 19 june 2008 so if can get feedback would be fine
  582. # [19:05] <oedipus> GJR: will discuss with AlG and if need more time will get a chair-to-chair request
  583. # [19:06] <oedipus> MikeS: overdue action items
  584. # [19:07] * oedipus hope you don't mind my minuting, mike, you have enough to do chairing
  585. # [19:07] * Quits: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217) (Quit: Laura)
  586. # [19:07] <Zakim> -Laura_Carlson
  587. # [19:07] <MikeSmith> action-34?
  588. # [19:07] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-34
  589. # [19:07] <trackbot> ACTION-34 -- Lachlan Hunt to prepare "Web Developer's Guide to HTML5" for publication in some way, as discussed on 2007-11-28 phone conference -- due 2008-06-26 -- OPEN
  590. # [19:07] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/34
  591. # [19:07] <oedipus> ALERT: meeting continues for another 30 minutes (or until issue review done)
  592. # [19:08] <oedipus> MikeS: changed due date to 26 june to give lachy a couple of weeks - will keep updated every 2 weeks
  593. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> "Lachlan working on this, with goal to have something WD-ready by mid-August"
  594. # [19:09] <oedipus> MikeS: same overdue action items from last week -- assigned either to ChrisW or DanC - will keep open until have chance to talk with them
  595. # [19:09] <MikeSmith> action-14?
  596. # [19:09] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-14
  597. # [19:09] <trackbot> ACTION-14 -- Chris Wilson to get more information on MS patent review with <canvas> -- due 2008-06-12 -- OPEN
  598. # [19:09] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/14
  599. # [19:10] <oedipus> MikeS: due date today - chrisW moved due date to today's date
  600. # [19:10] <oedipus> MikeS: 150 days from 22 january - so 22 june 2008 is due date for patent review
  601. # [19:11] <oedipus> MikeS: any patent disclosures with regards the draft published on 22 january are due 22 june - this applies to anyone and everyone
  602. # [19:11] * Quits: adele_ (adele@192.42.249.145) (Ping timeout)
  603. # [19:12] <oedipus> MikeS: don't know current situation with all patent stakeholders; apple been doing review - as well as MS
  604. # [19:12] <oedipus> DS: issue will be obsolete after 22 june 2008
  605. # [19:12] <oedipus> MikeS: right
  606. # [19:12] <oedipus> MikeS: need chrisW to update
  607. # [19:13] <oedipus> MikeS: downside of tracker - doesn't give audit trail
  608. # [19:14] <oedipus> MikeS: test cases don't apply to open source discussion; from w3c team side, have not received/seen any change in w3c license policy
  609. # [19:15] <oedipus> MikeS: w3c documents cannot be modified and published in modified form; applies to rec-track documents, but don't distinguish between normative rec-track documents and notes (which are non-normative); more important to ensure don't have conflicting versions of standards being published
  610. # [19:15] <oedipus> MikeS: my own opinion - don't know what info DanC has that might affect this
  611. # [19:15] <smedero> MikeSmith: From Dom@W3 about Action changelog - "Note that actions created from IRC do not carry that information, since it isn't possible (or at least practical) to define who asked to create the action based on the IRC commands."
  612. # [19:15] <oedipus> MikeS: forms working group (action 66)
  613. # [19:16] <oedipus> GJR: needs more time to propose to task force - hopefully by end of day/tomorrow
  614. # [19:16] <MikeSmith> action-56?
  615. # [19:16] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-56
  616. # [19:16] <trackbot> ACTION-56 -- Chris Wilson to wilson to follow up with Forms WG to make sure they understand this plan of action by 5/1/2008 -- due 2008-06-12 -- OPEN
  617. # [19:16] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/56
  618. # [19:16] <oedipus> s/(action 66)/(action 56)
  619. # [19:17] <oedipus> MikeS: ChrisW hasn't had communication with forms task force
  620. # [19:17] <oedipus> GJR: no, hasn't
  621. # [19:17] <oedipus> MikeS: inclined to close out - will keep open until ahve chance to talk with ChrisW about it
  622. # [19:17] <MikeSmith> action-63?
  623. # [19:17] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-63
  624. # [19:17] <trackbot> ACTION-63 -- Dan Connolly to ensure HTML WG response to 6 Jun 2007 PF WG msg re table headers http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jun/0145.html -- due 2008-06-12 -- OPEN
  625. # [19:17] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/63
  626. # [19:18] <oedipus> MikeS: table headers - did have change - headers attribute readded to draft; GJR what is position of WAI on status of this?
  627. # [19:18] <oedipus> GJR: will email the WAI Coordination Group to get status report from WAI chairs
  628. # [19:18] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#headers
  629. # [19:19] <oedipus> DS: thanks mike for keeping track of a ridiculous amount of info
  630. # [19:20] <oedipus> MikeS: volume of change makes hard for most people to keep up to date; trying to keep a running record and recycling info to the WG; need to publish a message weekly that says "these are the changes that have been made this week" so that have more eyes on changes and don't sneak up on people
  631. # [19:21] <oedipus> GJR strong +1 to MikeTMSmith's weekly post
  632. # [19:21] <MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/html5/pubnotes/
  633. # [19:22] <oedipus> MikeS: going to make accessibility related changes a highlight; all WG members should review changes to spec to keep up to date on current status, so that those with special interests and expertise (especially accessiblity) are in the loop
  634. # [19:22] <oedipus> MikeS: will also be working on a better way to recycle to group regular updates on changes
  635. # [19:23] <MikeSmith> Regrets+ Julian
  636. # [19:23] <oedipus> MikeS: biggest set of issues left -- next week, instead of approaching in serial manner, start with "big issues"
  637. # [19:24] <oedipus> MikeS: couple of raised issues related to HTTP which we haven't taken up and do need to take up - julian has expertise
  638. # [19:24] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/closed
  639. # [19:24] <oedipus> MikeS: look at closed issues - didn't know that summary issue in a closed state, so good to review
  640. # [19:24] <oedipus> MikeS: anything that should be reopened?
  641. # [19:25] <smedero> MikeSmith: TAG is still dicussing: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41
  642. # [19:25] <smedero> s/discussing/discussing/
  643. # [19:25] <smedero> sigh
  644. # [19:25] <smedero> whatever
  645. # [19:25] <smedero> heh
  646. # [19:25] <oedipus> MikeS: a lot of duplicates
  647. # [19:26] <MikeSmith> issue-41?
  648. # [19:26] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-41
  649. # [19:26] <trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- Decentralized extensibility -- OPEN
  650. # [19:26] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/41
  651. # [19:26] <oedipus> MikeS: reopen issue 41 - an issue for discussion with TAG - example of what should be kept open on tracker
  652. # [19:26] <oedipus> MikeS: don't know what can do about "decentralized accessiblity" -- issue for TAG and a lot of others (WAI, Ubiquitous Web, etc.)
  653. # [19:26] <oedipus> MikeS: any others people want opened?
  654. # [19:26] <oedipus> (no)
  655. # [19:27] <oedipus> MikeS: in remaining time, want to look at open issues briefly
  656. # [19:27] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/open
  657. # [19:27] <MikeSmith> issue-51?
  658. # [19:27] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-51
  659. # [19:27] <trackbot> ISSUE-51 -- WAI-ARIA dependency on Role Attribute Module, which takes Curie values. problem for implementations? -- OPEN
  660. # [19:27] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/51
  661. # [19:28] <oedipus> MikeS: not sure what issue precisely is - ARIA has dependency on XHTML - extension of Role Attribute Module - Role module references CURIEs normatively
  662. # [19:29] <oedipus> MikeS: CURIEs put forward by XHTML2 WG - not sure if TAG has made a finding
  663. # [19:29] <oedipus> GJR: TAG concerned about CURIES - multiplicity of ways of defining short URIs a worry, but no declarative finding; XHTML2 WG continues to work on CURIEs draft
  664. # [19:29] <MikeSmith> oedipus: TAG has issued a finding that they have some reasons to be uneasy with the current CURIE spec ... XHTML2 WG is working on addressing the concerns
  665. # [19:30] <MikeSmith> oedipus: this has been a problem with PF as far as ARIA ...
  666. # [19:31] <oedipus> GJR: PF taking CURIE agnostic view -
  667. # [19:31] <oedipus> DS: don't think HTML WG should be considering
  668. # [19:31] <MikeSmith> ... our PF policy has been to use @role as outlined, and we worry about CURIEs when a decision comes down about CURIEs
  669. # [19:32] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#common1
  670. # [19:33] <oedipus> MikeS: long-term concern, but nothing about ARIA in HTML5 spec, so no attempt to address CURIEs; haven't incorporated ARIA attributes into spec, so not of immediate concern, but will be an issue if CURIEs end up being endorsed by TAG; as far as way that spec is currently defined, CURIE syntax might be in conflict with conformance criteria already in HTML5 spec - specifically microformats
  671. # [19:33] <oedipus> MikeS: RDFa integration also a question - use case for CURIEs from RDFa task force - if have RDFa integrated into HTML5 will have CURIE issue
  672. # [19:34] <oedipus> tag on CURIE: http://www.w3.org/2008/04/curie.html
  673. # [19:34] <oedipus> CURIE Issue in TAG Tracker: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/56
  674. # [19:35] <oedipus> DS: SVG will be making formal proposal hopefully in a week
  675. # [19:35] <oedipus> MikeS: would like to go through issues in raised state
  676. # [19:35] <shepazu> s/formal proposal hopefully in a week/formal proposal, and will be working in public over the next weeks/
  677. # [19:36] <shepazu> after taking feedback into account
  678. # [19:36] <oedipus> MikeS: agenda for next week - will post a list of specific issues for discussion to discern which have consensus upon
  679. # [19:36] * oedipus sorry shepazu - too many audio streams
  680. # [19:36] <shepazu> np
  681. # [19:36] <oedipus> MikeS: move we adjourn
  682. # [19:36] <oedipus> scribe's note: seconded by all
  683. # [19:36] <Zakim> -Steve_Faulkner
  684. # [19:36] <MikeSmith> [adjourned]
  685. # [19:36] <Zakim> -smedero
  686. # [19:37] <Zakim> -MikeSmith
  687. # [19:37] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  688. # [19:37] <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
  689. # [19:37] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  690. # [19:37] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.425.467.aaaa, Gregory_Rosmaita, Laura_Carlson, smedero, Steve_Faulkner, MikeSmith, [IPcaller], anne, Doug_Schepers
  691. # [19:38] * oedipus shepazu, wanna compare oral, er, aural, buffers?
  692. # [19:38] <MikeSmith> wondering who +1.425.467.aaaa and [IPcaller] were..
  693. # [19:38] * oedipus i never found out who 425 was
  694. # [19:38] * Quits: Steve_f (chatzilla@82.44.69.8) (Ping timeout)
  695. # [19:38] * oedipus same with IPcaller
  696. # [19:39] * oedipus have to check the log file for the IRC session to determine when ipcaller joined
  697. # [19:39] <shepazu> oedipus, eeewwwww
  698. # [19:39] <oedipus> mike, the ipcaller was anne and lachy
  699. # [19:40] <MikeSmith> ah
  700. # [19:40] <MikeSmith> OK
  701. # [19:40] * oedipus shepazu, you started it -- a bit of advice -- don't get into a pissing contest with a blind man -- you'll just get soaked
  702. # [19:40] <MikeSmith> 425 area code is Seattle
  703. # [19:40] <shepazu> lol
  704. # [19:41] <oedipus> i don't know who called in from seattle
  705. # [19:41] <MikeSmith> OK
  706. # [19:41] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
  707. # [19:41] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-html-wg-minutes.html MikeSmith
  708. # [19:41] <oedipus> just leave the number - if it is important to the caller, he/she should reply to the minutes announcement to identify him/herself
  709. # [19:41] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make log public
  710. # [19:41] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, MikeSmith
  711. # [19:41] <MikeSmith> oedipus: OK
  712. # [19:42] * oedipus gotta go recharge my phone before another telecon
  713. # [19:42] <smedero> that as me
  714. # [19:42] <MikeSmith> aha
  715. # [19:42] <smedero> <-- seattle
  716. # [19:42] <oedipus> ah-hah!
  717. # [19:42] <MikeSmith> thanks smedero
  718. # [19:42] <smedero> sorry
  719. # [19:42] <oedipus> so, that leaves ruilopes as the unidentified caller
  720. # [19:42] <smedero> oedipus tried to help correct that earlier. :)
  721. # [19:42] * smedero tips hat
  722. # [19:42] * oedipus blushes
  723. # [19:43] <oedipus> i think, smedero, you ended up identifying yourself as ruilopes
  724. # [19:44] <smedero> weee!
  725. # [19:44] <smedero> rolls off the tongue better than "shawn"
  726. # [19:44] <smedero> I might keep it
  727. # [19:44] <oedipus> laughing out loud - aloha and mahalo everyone
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  759. # Session Close: Fri Jun 13 00:00:00 2008

The end :)