/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-06-14 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Sat Jun 14 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:00] * Quits: zyx386 (zyx386@87.55.138.244) (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D)
  4. # [00:52] <Philip> http://www.dame-mehri.com/ - all the images there are served as "Forbidden" (so the site breaks in Opera 9.2, since that doesn't display images unless it got a 200 response, but works in HTML5 since that says to violate HTTP)
  5. # [00:53] <hober> unbelievable. http://html4all.org/mailman/archives/list_html4all.org/2008-June/000909.html
  6. # [00:55] <smedero> woah.
  7. # [00:56] <smedero> that's a kinda of uh, extreme interpretation of events.
  8. # [00:58] <MikeSmith> Lachy: about Erik forwarding to the list all bugzilla messages for the issue he raised, yeah, that's problem
  9. # [00:58] <MikeSmith> but I understand why he's doing it
  10. # [00:59] <MikeSmith> he wants to keep others aware of the fact that active discussion about it is taking place
  11. # [00:59] <MikeSmith> but I think there are alternative ways to do that
  12. # [01:00] <MikeSmith> like, once a week I or some volunteer can agree to look through the set of open issues in bugzilla a post a summary to the list
  13. # [01:00] <MikeSmith> with URLs for the issues
  14. # [01:01] <MikeSmith> and say, if you are interested in following any of these issues more closely, add yourself as a subscriber in the Cc field for the issue
  15. # [01:01] <MikeSmith> or if you want to keep up with all bugzilla discussions, subscribe to the public-html-bugzilla list
  16. # [01:02] <MikeSmith> there are going to be some hiccups along the way here before we work out all the kinks
  17. # [01:03] <smedero> Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines... that it might make sense to have someone present a high-level bugzilla summary to the issue-tracking telecons every two weeks
  18. # [01:03] <MikeSmith> for now, Understanding and support for the fact that we are trying something new here to solve the problems we're dealing with would be much appreciated
  19. # [01:04] <MikeSmith> smedero: if you can help out with that, it would be a big help
  20. # [01:04] <MikeSmith> Erik's issue is so far the only one we have
  21. # [01:04] <smedero> Sure, I can take that on.
  22. # [01:04] <MikeSmith> thanks very much
  23. # [01:07] * Quits: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.246) (Connection reset by peer)
  24. # [01:09] <MikeSmith> Lachy: I will send a notification to the public-html list about the public-html-bugzilla list
  25. # [01:10] <MikeSmith> and btw, about the spam posted there, I will get that fixed
  26. # [01:10] <MikeSmith> so that the list is closed to posting by anybody expect the bugzilla mailbog
  27. # [01:10] <MikeSmith> mailbot
  28. # [01:11] * Quits: smedero (smedero@192.223.6.251) (Quit: smedero)
  29. # [01:13] <Lachy> MikeSmith, thanks
  30. # [01:13] <Lachy> I think bugzilla will work a whole lot better than the wiki, which I think should be largely abandoned
  31. # [01:14] <Lachy> or at least only used for documentation purposes, not issue tracking
  32. # [01:15] <MikeSmith> in practice, large parts of most Wikis in effect become write-only
  33. # [01:16] <Lachy> the wiki seemed to encourage people to write placeholder pages and leave things incomplete, even if they intended to return later. But that leaves a low signal to noise ratio
  34. # [01:16] <MikeSmith> I think we can make better use of the wiki
  35. # [01:16] <MikeSmith> but not so much for using it to track active issues
  36. # [01:17] <MikeSmith> Lachy: btw, to be clear, I don't mind at all you pinging me to remind me about things or to make suggestions
  37. # [01:18] <MikeSmith> and IRC is probably the best place to do it
  38. # [01:18] <Lachy> MikeSmith, I know. that's why I ping you so often.
  39. # [01:18] <MikeSmith> heh :)
  40. # [01:18] <Lachy> btw, it still doesn't look like you followed up on that other issue I've been bugging you about all week :-)
  41. # [01:19] <MikeSmith> yeah, will do that right now
  42. # [01:19] <Lachy> cool
  43. # [01:19] <MikeSmith> have allowed this other stuff to delay that for long enough
  44. # [01:30] <MikeSmith> Lachy: ok, just replied to Kobi and kept you in the Cc field + added Karl Dubost
  45. # [01:30] <MikeSmith> Karl is officially now the W3C "Web Community Liaison"
  46. # [01:31] <MikeSmith> so I think Karl can and will be a help on this
  47. # [01:38] <Lachy> MikeSmith, it appears Kobi's reply didn't make it into www-archive. Could it be still sitting in the moderation queue or something for that list?
  48. # [01:41] <MikeSmith> Lachy: reply to me just now, you mean?
  49. # [01:41] <MikeSmith> oh
  50. # [01:41] <MikeSmith> I understand
  51. # [01:41] <Lachy> yeah, his message that you replied to
  52. # [01:41] <MikeSmith> yeah
  53. # [01:41] <MikeSmith> it is probably in a state that's waiting for him to him to agree to have it archived
  54. # [01:42] <MikeSmith> not for moderation from our side
  55. # [02:00] * Quits: tH (Rob@87.102.5.204) (Quit: -> bed)
  56. # [02:22] * Quits: Dashiva (noone@84.48.51.199) (Ping timeout)
  57. # [02:28] * Joins: Dashiva (noone@84.48.51.199)
  58. # [02:32] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  59. # [02:43] * Quits: adele (adele@24.7.125.179) (Quit: adele)
  60. # [02:44] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  61. # [03:04] * Quits: deane (dean@121.98.128.155) (Ping timeout)
  62. # [03:05] * Joins: deane (dean@121.98.128.155)
  63. # [03:11] * Joins: aroben (adamroben@17.255.104.178)
  64. # [03:18] <MikeSmith> can I please get opinions about whether it would be a good idea to have notifications of all new bugzilla issues posted to public-html?
  65. # [03:18] <MikeSmith> I already have them going to the public-html-wg-issue-tracking
  66. # [03:18] <MikeSmith> but I can see some value in having everybody in the group know when a new issue has been raised
  67. # [03:18] <MikeSmith> but only that
  68. # [03:19] <MikeSmith> I mean, the only mail from bugzilla to public-html would be when a new issue is first raised
  69. # [03:20] <MikeSmith> people can then add themselves to the Cc list for the bugzilla issue if they care to
  70. # [03:20] <Philip> I imagine it'd be a bit of a pain if people started replying to the bugmail on public-html
  71. # [03:21] <Philip> but maybe it'd be easy to educate people to not do that, and to reply on Bugzilla instead, if they can be bothered registering and remembering their password and everything
  72. # [03:22] <MikeSmith> yeah
  73. # [03:22] * Joins: aroben_ (adamroben@17.203.15.200)
  74. # [03:23] <MikeSmith> Philip: yeah, I would make it clear that people were not to reply on public-html directly to the new-issue notifications
  75. # [03:24] * Quits: aroben (adamroben@17.255.104.178) (Ping timeout)
  76. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> there are going to be pros and cons to any solution we try for providing better issue tracking and for getting the list traffic down
  77. # [03:40] * Quits: drry (drry@211.9.156.86) (Quit: drry)
  78. # [03:42] * Joins: drry (drry@211.9.156.86)
  79. # [03:44] * Quits: aroben_ (adamroben@17.203.15.200) (Quit: aroben_)
  80. # [03:52] * Quits: DanC (connolly@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
  81. # [04:53] * Quits: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.154.87.254) (Quit: Leaving)
  82. # [06:19] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200) (Ping timeout)
  83. # [06:21] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200)
  84. # [07:07] * Joins: marcos_ (marcos@131.181.210.216)
  85. # [07:13] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: you awake yet?
  86. # [07:14] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: yeah, but heading out of town real soon
  87. # [07:14] * Quits: marcos_ (marcos@131.181.210.216) (Quit: marcos_)
  88. # [07:14] <MikeSmith> ok, this is quick
  89. # [07:14] <MikeSmith> just want a sanity check
  90. # [07:15] <MikeSmith> would be a dumb idea to have notifications of all new bugzilla issues posted to public-html?
  91. # [07:15] <MikeSmith> I mean only the notifications of new issues
  92. # [07:15] <MikeSmith> when the are first created
  93. # [07:15] <MikeSmith> only that, not the follow ups
  94. # [07:15] * Joins: marcos_ (marcos@131.181.210.216)
  95. # [07:16] <MikeSmith> value being the everybody in the group gets notified and can opt-in by heading over and adding themselves to the Cc in bugzilla if they care to follow the issue
  96. # [07:16] <hsivonen> I think it would make sense if there's also first an email from you to the group instructing people to put techincal comments in Bugzilla
  97. # [07:16] <MikeSmith> OK
  98. # [07:16] <hsivonen> too bad that Bugzilla doesn't track email replies
  99. # [07:17] <MikeSmith> to be clear, you mean to instruct people to *only* put technical comments -- no +1 messages or whatever?
  100. # [07:18] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I may be able to get that feature added if we actually start using bugzilla successfully
  101. # [07:18] <MikeSmith> then I could make a case for the need
  102. # [07:18] <MikeSmith> to our systems team
  103. # [07:18] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: Yeah, technical comments only
  104. # [07:18] <MikeSmith> OK
  105. # [07:18] <MikeSmith> thanks
  106. # [07:18] <hsivonen> Bugzilla's voting system is for +1
  107. # [07:18] <MikeSmith> good point
  108. # [07:19] * Quits: marcos_ (marcos@131.181.210.216) (Ping timeout)
  109. # [07:19] <MikeSmith> I will mention that in the instructions to the group
  110. # [07:20] <hsivonen> I think it would be prudent to avoid suggesting that bugzilla voting were used as a criterion for taking stuff into the spec
  111. # [07:20] <hsivonen> but it could be used as a criterion for prioritising what to deal with next
  112. # [07:20] <hsivonen> (like the WHATWG issue voting system is supposed to be a vote on priority)
  113. # [07:35] <MikeSmith> yes, agreed
  114. # [07:35] * Quits: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@123.176.107.50) (Connection reset by peer)
  115. # [07:37] * Joins: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@123.176.107.50)
  116. # [08:05] * Joins: mjs_ (mjs@24.5.43.151)
  117. # [08:05] * Quits: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151) (Connection reset by peer)
  118. # [08:34] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  119. # [08:59] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  120. # [10:00] * mjs_ is now known as mjs
  121. # [10:51] * Quits: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151) (Quit: mjs)
  122. # [10:54] * Joins: tH_ (Rob@87.102.5.204)
  123. # [10:55] * tH_ is now known as tH
  124. # [11:02] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  125. # [11:15] * Joins: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151)
  126. # [11:37] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  127. # [11:44] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  128. # [12:08] * Quits: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151) (Quit: mjs)
  129. # [12:25] * Joins: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151)
  130. # [12:43] * Quits: Dashiva (noone@84.48.51.199) (Ping timeout)
  131. # [12:43] * Joins: Dashiva (noone@84.48.51.199)
  132. # [12:57] * Philip is getting tired of the Bugzilla spam already :-(
  133. # [12:59] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  134. # [13:03] <takkaria> well, what do you expect?
  135. # [13:04] <Philip> takkaria: I expect I'll get over it soon enough :-)
  136. # [13:06] <takkaria> I expect another 12 issues or so to appear on bugzilla over the next couple of hours, though I could be very wrong
  137. # [13:12] <Lachy> I just wish public-html wasn't being CC'd. I think the *-bugzilla list is sufficient
  138. # [13:12] * Lachy goes to set up a filter to mark the new issues CC'd to public-html as read automatically.
  139. # [13:14] * Joins: billyjack (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  140. # [13:15] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
  141. # [13:34] <billyjack> Lachy: you there?
  142. # [13:34] * billyjack is now known as MikeSmith
  143. # [13:39] <Lachy> yes
  144. # [13:39] <Lachy> MikeSmith
  145. # [13:42] <Lachy> MikeSmith, I disagree with allowing non-discussed issues to be raised on bugzilla. Since that was originally a requirement for adding issues to the wiki (which got ignored in many cases), I just assumed it was the same for bugzilla
  146. # [13:42] <Lachy> But, I guess that decision is up to you.
  147. # [13:43] <MikeSmith> Lachy: yeah, I'd like to ask you please respect it for now at least
  148. # [13:44] <MikeSmith> I gotta drop off cause I'm running out of battery
  149. # [13:44] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  150. # [14:05] * Quits: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151) (Quit: mjs)
  151. # [14:29] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Ping timeout)
  152. # [14:38] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  153. # [15:15] * Joins: myakura (myakura@222.145.138.216)
  154. # [15:33] * Joins: aroben (adamroben@76.111.160.14)
  155. # [15:42] * Joins: DanC_lap (connolly@128.30.52.30)
  156. # [15:52] * Quits: myakura (myakura@222.145.138.216) (Quit: Leaving...)
  157. # [16:29] * Quits: DanC_lap (connolly@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  158. # [16:55] * Quits: aroben (adamroben@76.111.160.14) (Quit: aroben)
  159. # [17:11] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  160. # [17:11] <zcorpan> is it useful to distinguish "spec bugs" from "spec proposals" in bugzilla?
  161. # [17:14] <zcorpan> actually, are any of the fields other than summary and descriptions useful?
  162. # [17:15] <zcorpan> (maybe cc and url)
  163. # [17:18] * Parts: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  164. # [17:21] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  165. # [17:22] * Parts: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  166. # [17:23] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  167. # [17:34] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203) (Ping timeout)
  168. # [17:36] * Joins: aroben (adamroben@76.111.160.14)
  169. # [17:41] * Quits: deane (dean@121.98.128.155) (Client exited)
  170. # [17:52] * zcorpan adds a speeddial for
  171. # [17:52] * zcorpan http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?bug_file_loc=http://&bug_severity=normal&bug_status=NEW&comment=&component=Spec%20bugs&contenttypeentry=&contenttypemethod=autodetect&contenttypeselection=text/plain&data=&description=&form_name=enter_bug&maketemplate=Remember%20values%20as%20bookmarkable%20template&op_sys=All&priority=P2&product=HTML%20WG&rep_platform=All&short_desc=&target_milestone=---&version=unspecified
  172. # [17:53] * gsnedders stares
  173. # [17:53] * Joins: DanC (connolly@128.30.52.30)
  174. # [17:53] * Parts: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200)
  175. # [17:54] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200)
  176. # [17:54] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200) (Quit: Partying in teh intarwebs)
  177. # [17:54] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200)
  178. # [18:03] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203)
  179. # [18:34] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@83.227.33.203) (Ping timeout)
  180. # [19:32] * Quits: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@123.176.107.50) (Connection reset by peer)
  181. # [19:34] * Joins: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@123.176.107.50)
  182. # [20:05] * Quits: aroben (adamroben@76.111.160.14) (Quit: aroben)
  183. # [20:08] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Ping timeout)
  184. # [20:09] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  185. # [20:14] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Ping timeout)
  186. # [20:15] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  187. # [20:24] * Joins: ROBOd2 (robod@89.122.216.38)
  188. # [20:24] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Ping timeout)
  189. # [21:11] * Quits: DanC (connolly@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  190. # [21:23] * Joins: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.246)
  191. # [21:42] * Joins: rking3 (rking3@24.5.77.167)
  192. # [22:33] * Joins: aroben (adamroben@76.111.160.14)
  193. # [22:40] * Joins: Dashimon (noone@84.48.51.199)
  194. # [22:41] * Quits: Dashiva (noone@84.48.51.199) (Ping timeout)
  195. # [22:41] * Dashimon is now known as Dashiva
  196. # [22:44] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200) (Quit: Killin' teh intarwebs)
  197. # [22:47] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200)
  198. # [22:51] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200) (Quit: Killin' teh intarwebs)
  199. # [23:03] * Joins: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151)
  200. # [23:08] * Quits: ROBOd2 (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  201. # [23:09] * Joins: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.44.35.200)
  202. # [23:16] * Quits: rking3 (rking3@24.5.77.167) (Quit: rking3)
  203. # [23:41] * Quits: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151) (Quit: mjs)
  204. # [23:47] * Joins: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151)
  205. # Session Close: Sun Jun 15 00:00:00 2008

The end :)