/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-07-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 31 00:00:01 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:03] <shepazu> Hixie: I haven't had any problems... check with someone else on the West Coast, could be a particular server that's funky
  4. # [00:05] <Hixie> i'm in norway
  5. # [00:05] <Hixie> or rather, my irc client is
  6. # [00:05] <gsnedders> Hixie: How come?
  7. # [00:08] <Philip> Maybe try running traceroute continuously to see if/where the connection breaks while IRC is timing out?
  8. # [00:09] * Quits: mjs_ (mjs@17.203.14.227) (Quit: mjs_)
  9. # [00:09] <Hixie> i run irssi on a remote host in screen, so i never have to disconnect
  10. # [00:09] * Quits: hsivonen (hsivonen@130.233.41.50) (Ping timeout)
  11. # [00:10] <Philip> Hixie: Wouldn't it be better to run the client somewhere with lower latency to you?
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  13. # [00:11] <Hixie> probably, but i don't have one :-)
  14. # [00:11] <Hixie> also, i like spreading my machines around
  15. # [00:11] <Hixie> makes for easier testing of the network
  16. # [00:11] <Hixie> and the latency on this is fine
  17. # [00:12] <Hixie> doesn't feel significantly worse than my machine in LA, certainly
  18. # [00:12] <Hixie> though that may say more about that machine than about the network
  19. # [00:12] <gsnedders> Besides, IRC never has perfect low latency anyway :P
  20. # [00:13] * takkaria is in England but IRCs from a server in the US, and detects no real latency either
  21. # [00:13] <Philip> gsnedders: The latency of the UI when typing text into irssi is what matters, not the latency to the IRC server
  22. # [00:13] <gsnedders> Philip: Yeah, I know. I thought of that too :P
  23. # [00:14] <Philip> Hixie: I suppose that's a quite effective notification system for nuclear war - if some city gets wiped out, you'll lose some of your network connections and immediately know that something's wrong
  24. # [00:14] <gsnedders> Philip: But a false alarm could have large effects
  25. # [00:15] <Hixie> Philip: nah, too many false positives
  26. # [00:16] <Philip> It would give you enough time to look out of your window to see if there really is a nuclear war or if it's just a false alarm
  27. # [00:17] <Hixie> :-)
  28. # [00:18] * gsnedders manages to stop laughing
  29. # [00:18] <gsnedders> Because, I mean, who looks outside normally?
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  31. # [00:25] * gsnedders looks
  32. # [00:25] * gsnedders sees dark sky
  33. # [00:25] * gsnedders looks behind him
  34. # [00:25] * gsnedders sees dark room
  35. # [00:25] * gsnedders therefore concludes, he is outside
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  52. # [02:08] <Sascha_Ortmann> hello, somebody here how now amaya good?
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  55. # [02:16] <hober> could you reword that?
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  57. # [02:16] <hober> oh, Sascha already left. nm.
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  60. # [02:50] <Tatus> hello, amaya disyplay http://www.kallesfahrschule.de wrong, is there a css error?
  61. # [02:51] <Tatus> @hober, sorry I rename to Tatus
  62. # [02:51] <Lachy> Tatus, this isn't an appropriate channel to ask questions about amaya
  63. # [02:52] <Lachy> but amaya isn't really a good quality browser. It's very experimental
  64. # [02:52] <Tatus> ok, but in amaya nobody ist online
  65. # [02:52] <Tatus> the 3 persons do not answer
  66. # [02:52] <Lachy> that probably indicates the amout of attention the project is getting is quite low
  67. # [02:53] <Tatus> yes
  68. # [02:54] <Lachy> also, they could be away from their computers for any reason. They may take a few hours to respond
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  71. # [02:54] <Tatus> i only want to now it there is a error in my html or css or a amaya error
  72. # [02:54] <Lachy> have you tried the validator?
  73. # [02:55] <Tatus> yes
  74. # [02:55] <Tatus> no error
  75. # [02:56] <Lachy> the the best thing to do is to make a copy of the page and minimise it as much as possible so that it still reproduces the bug, so that you can determine exactly which properties are causing the problem
  76. # [02:56] <Lachy> then you can check the spec to find out which behaviour is correct
  77. # [02:57] <Philip> Alternatively, you can just assume it's a bug in Amaya
  78. # [02:57] <Lachy> Philip, that would be my assumption too, but you don't learn anything by just doing that
  79. # [02:58] <Tatus> yes, ok
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  82. # [03:14] <Hixie> Tatus: does it work in other browsers?
  83. # [03:14] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.255.104.199) (Quit: mjs)
  84. # [03:14] <Hixie> Tatus: amaya's css support is pretty much teh worst of any browser i've ever tested
  85. # [03:14] <Philip> Hixie: Are you including browsers that don't support CSS at all?
  86. # [03:15] <Tatus> yes, it works in other browsers
  87. # [03:16] <Hixie> yes
  88. # [03:16] <Hixie> Tatus: probably not your fault then
  89. # [03:16] <Tatus> ok
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  124. # [13:35] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Why is <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/wfreq/results> not public?
  125. # [13:37] <MikeSmith> because it was a WG-specific survey and I think the current system makes such surveys accessible only to members of the WG associated with the survey
  126. # [13:38] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: But things like <http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tactics-gapi-canvas/results> are public
  127. # [13:38] <MikeSmith> hmm
  128. # [13:38] <MikeSmith> well, then I don't know
  129. # [13:45] * gsnedders notes he'll be around for the TPAC for several days with nothing much to do
  130. # [13:46] <gsnedders> (apart from schoolwork, but that doesn't count)
  131. # [13:47] <gsnedders> Anything interesting to observe is member confidential :\
  132. # [13:52] <Lachy_> when is TPAC?
  133. # [13:52] <gsnedders> 19th–24th Oct
  134. # [13:52] <Lachy_> ok
  135. # [13:52] <Lachy_> I'll be back from Australia by then
  136. # [13:52] * gsnedders needs to organize to share a room with someone
  137. # [13:53] <Lachy_> why? can't you get your own room?
  138. # [13:54] <gsnedders> Lachy_: Cost ;P
  139. # [13:54] <gsnedders> You know that money in finite?
  140. # [13:54] <Philip> No it's not - that's what debt is for
  141. # [13:55] <Lachy_> if by "in finite", you meant "infinite", then yes, I know
  142. # [13:55] <gsnedders> s/in/is/
  143. # [13:55] * Lachy_ is now known as Lachy
  144. # [13:55] * gsnedders needs to wake up
  145. # [13:55] <Lachy> isfinite doesn't make sense! ;-)
  146. # [13:55] <gsnedders> Lachy: There's a U+0020 character between the s and the f
  147. # [13:56] <zcorpan> U+0020 is six characters
  148. # [13:56] <Lachy> oh, I inserted a U+0008 character between that and the f as well.
  149. # [13:56] <gsnedders> zcorpan: Huh?
  150. # [13:56] <zcorpan> nm
  151. # [13:56] <gsnedders> Lachy: Yeah, that does have an affect
  152. # [13:57] <Philip> s/a/e/
  153. # [13:57] * gsnedders always gets that wrong
  154. # [13:57] <zcorpan> Yeeh?
  155. # [13:57] * Lachy wonders why people frequently confuse affect and effect. The difference is clear, IMHO.
  156. # [13:58] <gsnedders> zcorpan: Smartass :)
  157. # [13:58] <Philip> You effect an action that has an effect that affects an object
  158. # [13:59] <zcorpan> http://xkcd.com/326/
  159. # [14:00] <gsnedders> zcorpan: Now you've got me clicking "Random" for the next two hours. Thanks.
  160. # [14:00] <zcorpan> gsnedders: welcome
  161. # [14:00] <Lachy> gsnedders, just be thankful he didn't post a wikipedia link then :-)
  162. # [14:00] <zcorpan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect
  163. # [14:01] <Lachy> http://xkcd.com/214/
  164. # [14:01] <gsnedders> Lachy: I don't start clicking random on wikipedia, though :)
  165. # [14:01] <Philip> It's much more efficient to just start at page 1 and read through to the end
  166. # [14:02] <Lachy> Philip, you mean on wikipedia?
  167. # [14:02] <zcorpan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9EpnVAl5JA
  168. # [14:02] <Philip> If you click at random, it'll take a large (exponential? I have no idea) amount of time to see them all
  169. # [14:02] <Philip> Lachy: I mean web comics; it would only work on append-only media
  170. # [14:05] <Lachy> Philip, there are only 455 xkcd comics. is there some statisical calcuation to work out how long it would take to see them all, assuming a good random number generator is in use?
  171. # [14:06] <Lachy> my favourite is http://xkcd.com/404/
  172. # [14:07] <Philip> Lachy: There is
  173. # [14:07] <Philip> but I'm not sure what it is :-p
  174. # [14:07] <gsnedders> Lachy: One question quiz: Why is there no comic 404 on xkcd?
  175. # [14:07] <Lachy> gsnedders, because the author couldn't find it.
  176. # [14:08] <gsnedders> Lachy: Nope.
  177. # [14:08] <Lachy> because of the HTTP status code, I assume
  178. # [14:08] <gsnedders> Lachy: For an April 1st joke, around three or four comics all redirected to another
  179. # [14:08] <gsnedders> Lachy: It happened to fall on the day comic 404 was due.
  180. # [14:10] <Lachy> oh
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  182. # [14:16] <Philip> You could calculate that once you've seen n out of the t comics, the chance of the next one being one you haven't seen is 1-n/t, so the expectation of the number of unique comics you'll see after the next look is (n*1)(1-n/t)+n(n/t) = n+1-n/t, but that seems to take infinitely long to reach t so I think I'm doing something bogus
  183. # [14:16] <Philip> s/n*1/n+1/
  184. # [14:19] <Lachy> so if I've seen 454 of the comics, there's a 1 out of 455 chance that the next one would be the one I haven't seen. So on average, that would take 227.5 views to finally see just the last one.
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  186. # [14:51] <Philip> Lachy: That's not true. Simplifying the situation: If you'd seen 1 comic out of a total of 2, there's a 1 in 2 chance the next will be one you haven't seen, but that doesn't mean it'll take an average of 1 view to see the last one. (Sometimes it'll take 1 view, sometimes 2, sometimes n for any finite value of n, so the average is greater than 1.)
  187. # [14:52] <Philip> I think I'd be correct in saying that the expected number of views needed in that case is 2, once you add up the probabilities for the infinite number of possible n
  188. # [14:53] <gDashiva> 0.5*1 + 0.5**2*1 + 0.5**3*1...
  189. # [14:53] <gDashiva> Could it perhaps be our old friend 1/(1-x)? :)
  190. # [14:54] <Philip> gDashiva: That necessarily gives 1, because it's the probability of ever seeing the last comic
  191. # [14:54] <Philip> gDashiva: The expected number of views needed is (0.5*1)*1 + (0.5**2*1)*2 + (0.5**3*1)*3 + ... = 2, I think
  192. # [14:54] <gDashiva> Yeah, I messed up the coeffs. Obviously *2, *3, etc
  193. # [14:55] <Philip> (and when there's 455 in total, the corresponding infinite series gives an expectation of 455)
  194. # [14:57] <Philip> Ah, were those *1s meant to be *2s and *3s instead of just noops? :-)
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  197. # [15:01] <Lachy> Philip, if the system was stateless and it didn't ensure the next is not the same as the current, then on average it would take 1.5 views in that case
  198. # [15:02] <Philip> Lachy: Why 1.5?
  199. # [15:02] <Lachy> if it does ensure the next is not the same as the current (even if it doesn't remember any other previous ones you've looked at), then it will only take 1 view
  200. # [15:02] <Lachy> because that's an average
  201. # [15:02] <Philip> An average of what?
  202. # [15:02] <Lachy> 1 + 2 / 2 = 1.5
  203. # [15:02] <Philip> Why 1 and 2?
  204. # [15:03] <Philip> You might randomly get show the comic you've already seen, a million times
  205. # [15:03] <Philip> before seeing the new one
  206. # [15:03] <Philip> (It's unlikely, so it doesn't contribute much to the expectation, but it does contribute a bit)
  207. # [15:04] <Lachy> oh, right. my calculation doesn't work for a stateless system
  208. # [15:06] <Lachy> but there are 2 comics, and you viewed them 100 times in total, then on average, each would show up roughly 50 times
  209. # [15:06] <Philip> The average would be precisely 50, not roughly 50
  210. # [15:07] <Lachy> technically, yes, but in practice, you're unlikely to get exactly 50/50 split
  211. # [15:07] <Lachy> but it would be close
  212. # [15:07] <Philip> Yes, but the average is a precise calculation
  213. # [15:08] <Lachy> so? Don't get so picky about the little things I say.
  214. # [15:09] <Philip> The things you're saying are about mathematics and statistics, which are areas where you have to be either precise or wrong :-)
  215. # [15:22] <Lachy> Philip, statistics is never precise
  216. # [15:24] <Lachy> it is at best an educated guess that can be used to make future predictions about things, but it rarely matches reality so precisely
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  219. # [15:28] <gDashiva> Lachy: That's exactly why you have to be so precise, to minimize the differences
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  222. # [15:33] <Lachy> gDashiva, you can give precise numbers, while still indicating that there is a margin of error
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  227. # [15:51] <takkaria> for the record, I might have a go at implementing the SVGWG's idea, but it won't be for another month at least
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  230. # [15:58] <Lachy> takkaria, compared with the original specced proposal, what do you think of the SVGWG's proposal?
  231. # [15:58] <takkaria> as an implementor I prefer the HTML5 proposal; it took about an hour to implement
  232. # [15:59] <Lachy> wow
  233. # [16:00] <Lachy> as an opera employee, my official position is to support the SVGWG proposal.
  234. # [16:00] <takkaria> I guess there was a prerequisite of adding namespace awareness on attributes and tags everywhere before that, but the bulk of the proposal took no time at all
  235. # [16:01] <takkaria> when I come to implement the SVG WG's proposal, I intend to make a large list of all the interaction problems I find. I expect there to be many
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  252. # [18:02] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-irc
  253. # [18:02] <DanC> Zakim, this will be html
  254. # [18:02] <Zakim> ok, DanC; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
  255. # [18:03] <takkaria> oh, I'm around for the html wg meeting today, interesting
  256. # [18:03] <ChrisWilson> agenda?
  257. # [18:03] * Zakim sees nothing on the agenda
  258. # [18:03] <ChrisWilson> agenda+ ask for additional agenda items
  259. # [18:03] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  260. # [18:04] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
  261. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
  262. # [18:04] <ChrisWilson> agenda+ review overdue actions from http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
  263. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.218.349.aaaa
  264. # [18:04] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
  265. # [18:04] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  266. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
  267. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Julian
  268. # [18:04] * Joins: robburns (robburns@85.105.24.81)
  269. # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  270. # [18:04] <ChrisWilson> zakim, microsoft is me
  271. # [18:04] <Zakim> +ChrisWilson; got it
  272. # [18:05] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  273. # [18:05] <ChrisWilson> agenda+ review action items due today
  274. # [18:05] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
  275. # [18:05] <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
  276. # [18:06] <oedipus> zakim, mute Gregory_Rosmaita
  277. # [18:06] <Zakim> Gregory_Rosmaita should now be muted
  278. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> review issues discussed this week
  279. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> zakim, take up item 1
  280. # [18:06] <Zakim> agendum 1. "ask for additional agenda items" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
  281. # [18:06] * oedipus sorry, chris, can't volunteer to scribe today...
  282. # [18:06] * DanC Zakim, call DanC-bos
  283. # [18:06] * Zakim ok, DanC; the call is being made
  284. # [18:06] <Zakim> +DanC
  285. # [18:06] * Julian doesn't hear anything
  286. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> always forget that... aAny offers to scribe?
  287. # [18:06] * oedipus just background noise
  288. # [18:07] <ChrisWilson> meeting: html-wg chair: ChrisWilson
  289. # [18:07] * oedipus someone is really distorted - might be you, mike
  290. # [18:07] * oedipus slightly
  291. # [18:07] * oedipus very tinny - like alexander bell saying "come here watson, i need you"
  292. # [18:07] * ChrisWilson is going to try logging off telecon and back on.
  293. # [18:07] <Julian> Dan: could you say something?
  294. # [18:07] <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
  295. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  296. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +0161442aabb
  297. # [18:08] <ChrisWilson> zakim, microsoft is me
  298. # [18:08] <Zakim> +ChrisWilson; got it
  299. # [18:08] * DanC Zakim, who's on the phone?
  300. # [18:08] * Zakim sees on the phone: +1.218.349.aaaa, Julian, Gregory_Rosmaita (muted), DanC, ChrisWilson, +0161442aabb
  301. # [18:08] <ChrisWilson> zakim, who is on the phone
  302. # [18:08] <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', ChrisWilson
  303. # [18:08] <DanC> Zakim, who's talking?
  304. # [18:08] <Zakim> DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +0161442aabb (8%), +1.218.349.aaaa (79%), DanC (69%)
  305. # [18:08] * oedipus you're echoing
  306. # [18:09] <Laura> zakim, 1.218.349.aaaa is Laura
  307. # [18:09] <Zakim> sorry, Laura, I do not recognize a party named '1.218.349.aaaa'
  308. # [18:09] <DanC> Zakim, mute Laura
  309. # [18:09] <Zakim> sorry, DanC, I do not know which phone connection belongs to Laura
  310. # [18:09] <Zakim> +??P14
  311. # [18:09] <ChrisWilson> zakim, aaaa is Laura
  312. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Laura; got it
  313. # [18:09] * oedipus can hear laura, but not dan
  314. # [18:09] <DanC> Zakim, mute Laura
  315. # [18:09] <Zakim> Laura should now be muted
  316. # [18:09] * oedipus now dan sounds clear
  317. # [18:09] <ChrisWilson> zakim, unmute Laura
  318. # [18:09] <Zakim> Laura should no longer be muted
  319. # [18:09] <Laura> regrets+ Joshue
  320. # [18:09] * DanC wonders who +0161442aabb
  321. # [18:09] <takkaria> Zakim: +0161442aabb is me
  322. # [18:09] <ChrisWilson> zakim, mute Laura
  323. # [18:09] <Zakim> Laura should now be muted
  324. # [18:09] <DanC> Zakim, aabb is takkaria
  325. # [18:09] <Zakim> +takkaria; got it
  326. # [18:10] <DanC> scribe: DanC
  327. # [18:10] <ChrisWilson> zakim, agenda?
  328. # [18:10] <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
  329. # [18:10] <Zakim> 1. ask for additional agenda items [from ChrisWilson]
  330. # [18:10] <Zakim> 2. review overdue actions from http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda [from ChrisWilson]
  331. # [18:10] <Zakim> 3. review action items due today [from ChrisWilson]
  332. # [18:10] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  333. # [18:10] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  334. # [18:10] <ChrisWilson> any additional agenda items? Going once...twice...?
  335. # [18:10] <ChrisWilson> zakim, close item 1
  336. # [18:10] <Zakim> agendum 1, ask for additional agenda items, closed
  337. # [18:10] <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
  338. # [18:10] <Zakim> 2. review overdue actions from http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda [from ChrisWilson]
  339. # [18:11] <ChrisWilson> zakim, take up item 2
  340. # [18:11] <Zakim> agendum 2. "review overdue actions from http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
  341. # [18:11] <robburns> zakim, present+ robburns
  342. # [18:11] <Zakim> I don't understand 'present+ robburns', robburns
  343. # [18:11] <oedipus> present+ robburns
  344. # [18:11] <ChrisWilson> action-73 on dan...
  345. # [18:11] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  346. # [18:11] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  347. # [18:12] <oedipus> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
  348. # [18:12] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, oedipus
  349. # [18:12] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  350. # [18:12] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  351. # [18:12] <DanC> ACTION-73?
  352. # [18:12] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-73
  353. # [18:12] <trackbot> ACTION-73 -- Dan Connolly to follow up on WAI-ARIA markup thread, emphasizing the conformance point -- due 2008-07-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  354. # [18:12] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/73
  355. # [18:13] <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria - new editor's draft impending
  356. # [18:13] <oedipus> new conformance wording and host embedding verbiage - will be pushed to TR space soon
  357. # [18:13] <DanC> DanC: in progress.
  358. # [18:13] <DanC> good to know, oedipus
  359. # [18:13] <shepazu> zakim, call shepazu
  360. # [18:13] <Zakim> ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  361. # [18:14] <Zakim> +Shepazu
  362. # [18:14] <ChrisWilson> zakim, close item 2
  363. # [18:14] <Zakim> agendum 2, review overdue actions from http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda, closed
  364. # [18:14] <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
  365. # [18:14] <Zakim> 3. review action items due today [from ChrisWilson]
  366. # [18:14] <ChrisWilson> zakim, take up item 3
  367. # [18:14] <Zakim> agendum 3. "review action items due today" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
  368. # [18:14] <ChrisWilson> due today: action-23, on Joshue
  369. # [18:15] <DanC> action-23?
  370. # [18:15] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-23
  371. # [18:15] <trackbot> ACTION-23 -- Joshue O Connor to coordinate tests using ARIA -- due 2008-07-31 -- OPEN
  372. # [18:15] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23
  373. # [18:15] <oedipus> danC, the new TR has revised verbiage about host language embedding and aaron leventhal is working with a team of implementors on a User Agent Implementation Guide to ARIA
  374. # [18:16] <oedipus> q+
  375. # [18:16] * Zakim sees oedipus on the speaker queue
  376. # [18:16] <DanC> ack oedipus
  377. # [18:16] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  378. # [18:16] <ChrisWilson> yes?
  379. # [18:16] <oedipus> zakim, unmute Gregory_Rosmaita
  380. # [18:16] <Zakim> Gregory_Rosmaita should no longer be muted
  381. # [18:17] <DanC> GR: at our last ftf [when?] we discussed test suite building and who was to do which parts...
  382. # [18:17] <DanC> ... but we're working on issues on host language embedding...
  383. # [18:17] <DanC> ... to appear in upcoming WD
  384. # [18:18] <DanC> q+
  385. # [18:18] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  386. # [18:18] <ChrisWilson> ack DanC
  387. # [18:18] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  388. # [18:19] * Quits: marcos (marcos@131.181.148.227) (Ping timeout)
  389. # [18:19] <DanC> action-23?
  390. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-23
  391. # [18:19] <trackbot> ACTION-23 -- Joshue O Connor to coordinate tests using ARIA -- due 2008-10-01 -- OPEN
  392. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/23
  393. # [18:20] <DanC> action-54?
  394. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-54
  395. # [18:20] <trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Chris Wilson to ask PF WG to look at drafted text for HTML 5 spec to require producers/authors to include @alt on img elements -- due 2008-07-31 -- OPEN
  396. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54
  397. # [18:20] <Laura> We are still waiting for a reply from the PFWG for Action Item 54 regarding
  398. # [18:20] <Laura> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Mar/0234.html
  399. # [18:20] <Laura> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Apr/0408.html
  400. # [18:20] <Laura> Action 54 is dependent on PF's response. Request for an Action Item 54 time extension until there is a response from the PFWG.
  401. # [18:20] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  402. # [18:20] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 54
  403. # [18:20] <takkaria> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/MediaSpecifcElements might be of interest, too
  404. # [18:21] <ChrisWilson> done
  405. # [18:21] <DanC> CW: on action-54, I meant to set the date to 6 Aug; we're waiting for something from WAI PF
  406. # [18:21] <oedipus> takkaria, that's a rudimentary collection page for PF issues to coordinate with and review for HTML5
  407. # [18:21] <oedipus> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5 is main page
  408. # [18:21] <ChrisWilson> zakim, close item 3
  409. # [18:21] <Zakim> agendum 3, review action items due today, closed
  410. # [18:22] <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
  411. # [18:22] <oedipus> takkaria, the media specific elements is an action item i have from the PF face to face
  412. # [18:22] <ChrisWilson> review issues discussed
  413. # [18:22] <oedipus> takkaria, we (PF) were asked to outline and define requirements
  414. # [18:22] <ChrisWilson> (that is, we will now review any issues from the list discussed this week)
  415. # [18:23] <ChrisWilson> status update on SVG-in-html from Doug
  416. # [18:23] <DanC> Topic: ISSUE-37 html-svg-mathml
  417. # [18:23] <DanC> DS: there's discussion on SVG itself and on more general integration issues
  418. # [18:23] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  419. # [18:24] <oedipus> s/that's a/that's part of a
  420. # [18:24] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  421. # [18:24] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  422. # [18:24] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  423. # [18:24] <oedipus> regrets+ Josh_O_Connor
  424. # [18:24] <DanC> DS: Hixie says he hasn't yet reviewed the SVG WG proposal. Some comments from hsivonen are pending; vacations make progress slow
  425. # [18:25] <ChrisWilson> any other issues to discuss?
  426. # [18:25] <DanC> Topic: publication schedule
  427. # [18:25] <oedipus> ARIA User Agent Implementors Guide (Moz Dev doc) - http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/ARIA_to_API_mapping
  428. # [18:25] <DanC> DS: I note recent mail from Mike Smith re publication schedule
  429. # [18:26] <oedipus> next steps on forms? GJR's thoughts (logged as part of survey/vote): http://esw.w3.org/topic/GregoryRosmaita/FormsFeedback2008-07
  430. # [18:27] <DanC> CW: overly frequent publication is somewhat expensive for me, for monitoring the scope
  431. # [18:28] <oedipus> requirements & recommendations on forms in HTML5: http://esw.w3.org/topic/GregoryRosmaita/FormsFeedback2008-07
  432. # [18:28] <DanC> DS: forms likely to land in October?
  433. # [18:29] <DanC> CW: or sooner; as forms are clearly in our charter, that's not burdensome
  434. # [18:29] <robburns> zakim, who's on the phone?
  435. # [18:29] <Zakim> On the phone I see Laura (muted), Julian, Gregory_Rosmaita, DanC, ChrisWilson, takkaria, ??P14, Shepazu, [Microsoft]
  436. # [18:29] * oedipus who is ??P14
  437. # [18:29] <robburns> zakim, ??P14 is robburns
  438. # [18:29] <Zakim> +robburns; got it
  439. # [18:29] * Joins: CGI477 (836b0066@128.30.52.43)
  440. # [18:29] * oedipus lol
  441. # [18:30] <robburns> :-)
  442. # [18:30] <ChrisWilson> (but we do need to honor the publication schedule)
  443. # [18:30] * oedipus who is the second microsoft caller?
  444. # [18:30] <oedipus> zakim, microsoft is Cynthia_Shelly
  445. # [18:30] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly; got it
  446. # [18:30] <ChrisWilson> move to adjourn
  447. # [18:31] <oedipus> second
  448. # [18:31] <ChrisWilson> adjourned.
  449. # [18:31] <Laura> bye
  450. # [18:31] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  451. # [18:31] <Zakim> -takkaria
  452. # [18:31] <Julian> ok
  453. # [18:31] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  454. # [18:31] <Zakim> -Julian
  455. # [18:31] <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
  456. # [18:31] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  457. # [18:31] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  458. # [18:31] <Zakim> -Shepazu
  459. # [18:31] <Zakim> -Laura
  460. # [18:31] <ChrisWilson> thanks Dan, for scribing
  461. # [18:31] <Zakim> -robburns
  462. # [18:32] <oedipus> chair: Chris_Wilson
  463. # [18:32] <oedipus> meeting: HTML WG Weekly Call
  464. # [18:32] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  465. # [18:32] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  466. # [18:33] <oedipus> meeting- html-wg chair: ChrisWilson
  467. # [18:33] <oedipus> meeting+ HTML WG Issue Tracking Telecon
  468. # [18:33] <oedipus> chair+ Chris_Wilson
  469. # [18:33] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  470. # [18:33] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  471. # [18:34] * oedipus grrr... trying to fix the meeting and chair info, but to no avail...
  472. # [18:35] <oedipus> s/html-wg chair: ChrisWilson/HTML WG Issue Tracking Telecon
  473. # [18:35] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  474. # [18:35] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  475. # [18:35] <robburns> yeah, I don't understand how this is supposed to work?
  476. # [18:36] <robburns> I thought maybe asking zakim who's on the phone would add the phone attendees to the present list
  477. # [18:36] <oedipus> yes, it does
  478. # [18:36] <oedipus> zakim, please part
  479. # [18:36] <Zakim> leaving. As of this point the attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, +1.218.349.aaaa, Julian, ChrisWilson, DanC, +0161442aabb, Laura, takkaria, Shepazu, robburns, Cynthia_Shelly
  480. # [18:36] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  481. # [18:36] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  482. # [18:36] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  483. # [18:36] <takkaria> oedipus: could you remove my number from the minutes (+0161442aabb) somehow?
  484. # [18:37] <oedipus> present+ Laura_Carlson
  485. # [18:37] <oedipus> takkaria - i will try, but rrsagent isn't always accomodating
  486. # [18:37] <oedipus> present- [+1.218.349.aaaa]
  487. # [18:37] <oedipus> present+ takkaria
  488. # [18:37] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  489. # [18:37] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  490. # [18:37] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Ping timeout)
  491. # [18:37] <oedipus> present- aaaa
  492. # [18:37] <DanC> I can probably get the number out of the minutes
  493. # [18:38] * oedipus you have the tools!
  494. # [18:38] <oedipus> present- aabb
  495. # [18:38] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  496. # [18:38] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  497. # [18:39] * oedipus danC, should i leave well enough alone - tried to get the meeting title changed but to no avail using either "meeting-" and "meeting+" and by using sed
  498. # [18:39] * oedipus takkaria, is that how you want to appear in the attendees list?
  499. # [18:40] <takkaria> it's still got my number in it, but yeah, I go by takkaria
  500. # [18:40] * oedipus danC will have to use the staff tools to remove the numbers
  501. # [18:40] * oedipus instead of deleting them, rrsagent has been moving them to the front of the list
  502. # [18:41] <oedipus> s/html-wg chair: ChrisWilson/HTML WG Issue Tracking Telecon
  503. # [18:41] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  504. # [18:41] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  505. # [18:42] <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2008JulSep/0016.html
  506. # [18:42] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  507. # [18:42] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  508. # [18:42] * Quits: robburns (robburns@85.105.24.81) (Quit: robburns)
  509. # [18:42] * oedipus yeah - the title is finally right!
  510. # [18:42] <Laura> Nice work, Gregory.
  511. # [18:42] <oedipus> DanC, i'll leave the rest of the clean up to you - that's all i can do with the tools i have at my disposal
  512. # [18:43] * oedipus thanks, laura
  513. # [18:43] * oedipus thanks for the links, too
  514. # [18:43] <Laura> no problem :-)
  515. # [18:43] <oedipus> did you see my last post on the a11y conformance label and checkers?
  516. # [18:44] <oedipus> DanC, should i dismiss rrsagent so that you have less to clean out from the end of the minutes?
  517. # [18:44] <DanC> no need, thanks
  518. # [18:45] <oedipus> i'll let you take it from here, then
  519. # [18:45] <oedipus> the only bits are the phone numbers and all of the after-meeting administrivia and chatter
  520. # [18:46] <takkaria> is there any way to attend the telecon using voip?
  521. # [18:46] <oedipus> hold on a second, it's too hot here to think without double-checking (32 C)
  522. # [18:47] <oedipus> takkaria, check: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/VoIP
  523. # [18:48] <oedipus> takkaria, i know there are those who do, and i'll be joining their ranks soon, so i need to brush up on what's required myself
  524. # [18:50] <oedipus> also: http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
  525. # [18:51] <oedipus> takkaria, you might try emailing ted guild (http://www.w3.org/People/Ted) (ted@w3.org) or ralph swick (http://www.w3.org/People/all#swick) (swick@w3.org) or inquire of the systeam
  526. # [18:56] * Quits: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217) (Quit: Laura)
  527. # [19:00] <sampablokuper> Cheers all
  528. # [19:01] * Quits: sampablokuper (sampabloku@131.111.163.146) (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...)
  529. # [19:07] * Joins: adele (adele@17.203.14.172)
  530. # [19:23] * Quits: CGI477 (836b0066@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC)
  531. # [19:43] * Quits: sryo (sryo@190.245.216.82) (Ping timeout)
  532. # [19:43] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Quit: tlr)
  533. # [19:52] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  534. # [20:27] <DanC> Meeting: HTML WG Weekly
  535. # [20:27] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  536. # [20:27] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
  537. # [20:28] <DanC> Present: ChrisWilson, Cynthia_Shelly, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, Julian, Laura, Laura_Carlson, Shepazu, robburns, takkaria
  538. # [20:28] <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  539. # [20:28] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/31-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
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  543. # [20:49] <DanC> Zakim, bye
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  555. # [23:25] <Hixie> ok i checked my traceroute AS i got disconnected and saw no problems
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  563. # Session Close: Fri Aug 01 00:00:00 2008

The end :)