/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-08-07 / end

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  71. # [13:41] * Topic is 'HTML WG telecon 10 July 16:00UTC http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda | this channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
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  77. # [15:41] * Topic is 'HTML WG telecon 10 July 16:00UTC http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda | this channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
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  97. # [18:05] <oedipus> as julian posted to the announce list, no agenda has been circulated, and no notice that today's meeting will be held (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2008JulSep/0019.html)
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  100. # [18:09] <oedipus> DanC, is there indeed a telecon today?
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  103. # [18:13] <oedipus> so, what's the rule of thumb? if no chair or staff appear, we give up on meeting after how many minutes? 15? 30?
  104. # [18:13] <takkaria> I think the best plan is to have given up the meeting about five minutes ago
  105. # [18:14] <oedipus> lol - you are wise, indeed, takkaria
  106. # [18:14] <oedipus> not much on the agenda tracker - and those that are on it are "in process"
  107. # [18:14] <DanC> well, the rule is that you give up if you don't see an agenda 24hrs in advance... I got confusing signals about how long Mike Smith's vacation was.
  108. # [18:15] <oedipus> well, i know about the 24 rule, but also know how overcommitted you, chris and mike are, and that the tracker forms the agenda (usually)
  109. # [18:15] * Joins: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.75)
  110. # [18:16] <oedipus> hey, chris - just pondering if there is actually a call today
  111. # [18:16] * gsnedders proposes getting rid of chairs to avoid this problem
  112. # [18:16] * oedipus ROTFFL
  113. # [18:16] <gsnedders> oedipus: You see a problem with it, or what's so funny?
  114. # [18:16] <oedipus> as julian posted to the announce list, no agenda has been circulated, and no notice that today's meeting will be held (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2008JulSep/0019.html)
  115. # [18:17] <oedipus> gsnedders, a problem with what - i thought you were advancing a "modest proposal"
  116. # [18:17] <ChrisWilson> Mike and I apparently had a disconnect. He was supposed to be back from vacation today and he was going to chair, and I got in a few minutes late.
  117. # [18:17] <gsnedders> oedipus: Getting rid of chairs
  118. # [18:18] <DanC> I got confused about how long mike's vacation was too.
  119. # [18:18] <oedipus> gsnedders, then we'd have a standing committee
  120. # [18:18] <oedipus> so, no call?
  121. # [18:18] <ChrisWilson> or a benevolent dictator. Oh, wait.
  122. # [18:18] <ChrisWilson> well, I'm on the phone just in case, but no, I don't expect so.
  123. # [18:18] <oedipus> thanks
  124. # [18:22] <Philip> Someone should just set up a cron job to send the weekly meeting announcements
  125. # [18:36] * shepazu maybe should have volunteered to step in as team contact...
  126. # [18:36] <gsnedders> We should get rid of team contacts too.
  127. # [18:37] <gsnedders> Rely on unanimous consensus for everything.
  128. # [18:37] <ChrisWilson> Ah, so REALLY get nothing done. Or did you mean to limit the membership/involvement?
  129. # [18:37] <oedipus> i move to change the dialog to interprative dance
  130. # [18:37] <Philip> Replace each member of the WG with a small shell script
  131. # [18:37] <gDashiva> gsnedders: There's another kind of consensus?
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  134. # [18:38] <gsnedders> s/consensus/agreement/
  135. # [18:38] <Philip> gDashiva: There's animous consensus
  136. # [18:38] <gsnedders> ChrisWilson: Exactly. I guess we could leave membership to W3C members only, but then I'd have to leave, so I can't suggest that.
  137. # [18:38] <ChrisWilson> gDashiva: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consensus - consensus is a majority of opinion, not necessarily unanimity.
  138. # [18:39] <shepazu> yeah, a lot of people mix up unanimity and consensus
  139. # [18:40] <ChrisWilson> so despite kinda liking the interpretive dance idea from oedipus, I'm happy to have a real discussion about how to improve how we work.
  140. # [18:40] <Philip> oed.com says "consensus: ... Agreement in opinion; the collective unanimous opinion of a number of persons."
  141. # [18:40] <gDashiva> So basically, the invited experts can vote everyone else off the island
  142. # [18:40] <shepazu> ideally, consensus is reached because the majority is convinced of the technical merits of the "right" solution
  143. # [18:40] <Philip> so I guess there isn't consensus on what consensus means
  144. # [18:41] <shepazu> Philip: go stand in a corner :)
  145. # [18:41] <gDashiva> I'd call it ironic, but there's no consensus on that either
  146. # [18:41] <gsnedders> Can we have a Big Brother style voting people off the WG?
  147. # [18:41] <ChrisWilson> Not true - that was definition 2a of consensus from OED, def 1 was "General agreement or concord of different parts or organs of the body in effecting a given purpose; sympathy. Hence transf. of the members or parts of any system of things. "
  148. # [18:42] <ChrisWilson> so it's simply that there are multiple definitions, and (_I_ think) we function under def 1.
  149. # [18:42] <shepazu> we could enforce Good Standing, gsnedders
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  151. # [18:42] <ChrisWilson> Philip: I see what you did there. :)
  152. # [18:42] <Philip> ChrisWilson: Oops, I only read the first sentence, and thought that discussion of bodily organs wasn't relevant
  153. # [18:43] <gsnedders> shepazu: But some requirements like attending WG meetings are unpractical with people who can't afford to attend them
  154. # [18:43] <gsnedders> shepazu: It that's too well defined. We need voting!
  155. # [18:43] <shepazu> gsnedders: sure, but the chairs/group can define what the qualifications for Good Standing are
  156. # [18:44] <gsnedders> shepazu: Is it not defined in the process doc. which we are chartered to work under, though? But I guess by ignoring it entirely we're all ready breaching it anyway…
  157. # [18:44] <Laura> W3C Definition of Concensus:
  158. # [18:44] <Laura> "Consensus: A substantial number of individuals in the set support the decision and nobody in the set registers a Formal Objection. Individuals in the set may abstain. Abstention is either an explicit expression of no opinion or silence by an individual in the set. Unanimity is the particular case of consensus where all individuals in the set support the decision (i.e., no individual in the set abstains)."
  159. # [18:44] <Laura> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies#Consensus
  160. # [18:45] <gsnedders> Laura: I didn't specify what definition I was using, and it can't have been the W3C one, as I said it was unanimous
  161. # [18:46] <Philip> gsnedders: Your use of the word "unanimous" could have just been subsetting the W3C definition
  162. # [18:49] <ChrisWilson> heheh
  163. # [18:49] * gsnedders burns the W3C Process document
  164. # [18:49] <gsnedders> does that clarify what def I was using?
  165. # [18:50] <gDashiva> w3c consensus... on fire?
  166. # [18:50] <gsnedders> I dunno.
  167. # [18:50] <gsnedders> I can't remember what consensus meant.
  168. # [18:50] * ChrisWilson is biting his tongue to not be snarky at this point - so is going off to get coffee. brb.
  169. # [18:50] <gsnedders> ChrisWilson: Did you ever get the coffee machine I showed you? :P
  170. # [18:51] <gsnedders> (like, the _old_ <http://omgwtf.superlime.com/casemod/caffeine_machine_1.jpg>)
  171. # [18:54] <Lachy> hey ChrisWilson
  172. # [18:55] <Lachy> ChrisWilson, can you explain why this registry fix doesn't work with XP SP3 and IE8 beta? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/945402/
  173. # [18:57] <shepazu> ChrisWilson: I have a problem with StickyKeys on Windows 95... I can't turn it off via the dialog... can you explain how to fix that?
  174. # [18:57] <Lachy> shepazu, wtf? I only asked ChrisWilson cause he *works* with IE8, so I thought he might either know why it's broken, or be interested to know that it's a bug
  175. # [18:58] <oedipus> um, i think it is called "irony"
  176. # [18:58] <shepazu> Lachy: http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A+joke&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
  177. # [18:59] <Lachy> shepazu, due to the lack of relevance, it seemed that you were trying to make a point about this not being a help desck
  178. # [18:59] <Lachy> *desk
  179. # [18:59] <Philip> shepazu: I'm not sure that problem can be solved by software - you might want to try wiping your keyboard instead
  180. # [18:59] <shepazu> Philip: back into the corner, young man!
  181. # [19:00] <rubys> This IRC channel needs to be Closed Captioned for the humor impaired
  182. # [19:00] <gsnedders> shepazu: Hey! I'm the young man here!
  183. # [19:00] <Philip> :-(
  184. # [19:00] <shepazu> on reflection, that is an unfortunate name for a feature...
  185. # [19:00] <oedipus> rubys, ROTFFL
  186. # [19:01] <Julian_Reschke> maybe each line should have an alt= attribute
  187. # [19:01] <oedipus> HTML = help the millions learn?
  188. # [19:01] * Julian_Reschke ducks
  189. # [19:01] * oedipus chucks a friendly boomerang at julian
  190. # [19:01] <shepazu> (for the record, I really did have that problem)
  191. # [19:01] <Philip> shepazu: (Did you have that problem in the past decade?)
  192. # [19:02] * beowulf gets hit by random boomerang
  193. # [19:02] <oedipus> shepazu, are you using a regular 101-key keyboard or a "multimedia enhanced" keyboard?
  194. # [19:02] <gsnedders> I'm awesome alt="gsnedders is God"
  195. # [19:02] * Quits: Julian_Reschke (chatzilla@80.143.244.54) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208])
  196. # [19:02] * oedipus sorry beowulf - was aiming at grendel
  197. # [19:03] <gsnedders> oedipus: n00b.
  198. # [19:03] * Julian is now known as grendel
  199. # [19:03] * grendel still ducking
  200. # [19:03] * grendel is now known as Julian
  201. # [19:03] * gsnedders jumps on Julian
  202. # [19:03] <oedipus> gsnedders: your last comment to me didn't translate well into synthesized speech -
  203. # [19:04] <gsnedders> oedipus: noob.
  204. # [19:04] <oedipus> expansion?
  205. # [19:04] <shepazu> newbie
  206. # [19:04] <oedipus> oh, i thought it was a polite way to call me a nob!
  207. # [19:04] <shepazu> n00b==newbie in leet-speak
  208. # [19:04] <beowulf> lol
  209. # [19:04] <gsnedders> oedipus: If there's one thing it isn't, it's that.
  210. # [19:04] <Lachy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N00b
  211. # [19:05] <oedipus> now, i not only have to add dictionary entries for emoticons, but for acronyms too!
  212. # [19:05] <gsnedders> anyhow, I'm off for supper
  213. # [19:05] <oedipus> bon appetit!
  214. # [19:05] <gsnedders> se, not fr, please.
  215. # [19:06] <gsnedders> Sorry, sv
  216. # [19:06] <gsnedders> se is Northern Sami, sv is Swedish
  217. # [19:06] <beowulf> gsnedders: i thought you were scotchlandish?
  218. # [19:06] <Philip> Bøn appetit?
  219. # [19:07] <oedipus> i have a friend who always uses en-uk instead of en-gb -- guess he's honoring his slavic heritage
  220. # [19:07] <hsivonen> Philip: Swedish uses ö, not ø
  221. # [19:07] <hsivonen> ø is Danish and Norwegian
  222. # [19:07] <oedipus> it's all GEEK to me
  223. # [19:08] <hsivonen> Monty Python has been misinforming the Brits
  224. # [19:08] <oedipus> wouldn't be the first time
  225. # [19:08] <gDashiva> I would be more surprised if the opposite (had) happened
  226. # [19:08] <Philip> hsivonen: That's the only place I've learnt any Swedish from :-)
  227. # [19:09] <oedipus> my sweedish is at muppet-stage
  228. # [19:13] <oedipus> aloha, all
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  231. # [19:19] <anne> http://www.w3.org/mid/20080731075338.GJ2643@toro.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp is nice
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  233. # [20:27] <gsnedders> beowulf: I am. I'm also currently in Sweden :)
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  250. # [22:54] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  251. # [23:21] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Client exited)
  252. # [23:21] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  253. # [23:25] * Quits: mjs (mjs@24.5.43.151) (Quit: mjs)
  254. # [23:26] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.253.193.147) (Ping timeout)
  255. # [23:31] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.253.193.147)
  256. # [23:32] * Quits: sry1 (sryo@190.245.200.47) (Connection reset by peer)
  257. # [23:38] * Joins: sryo (sryo@190.245.200.47)
  258. # [23:47] * Quits: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.75) (Ping timeout)
  259. # Session Close: Fri Aug 08 00:00:00 2008

The end :)