/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-08-22 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Fri Aug 22 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:04] * Quits: adele (adele@17.203.15.174) (Quit: adele)
  4. # [00:05] * Joins: adele (adele@17.203.15.174)
  5. # [00:06] * Quits: adele (adele@17.203.15.174) (Quit: adele)
  6. # [00:16] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.203.14.182)
  7. # [00:21] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1)
  8. # [00:37] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1) (Connection timed out)
  9. # [00:38] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1)
  10. # [00:42] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1) (Ping timeout)
  11. # [00:52] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Quit: tlr)
  12. # [01:13] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.203.14.182) (Connection reset by peer)
  13. # [01:13] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.203.14.182)
  14. # [01:26] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  15. # [01:30] * Quits: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.74) (Ping timeout)
  16. # [01:43] * Joins: adele (adele@17.203.15.174)
  17. # [01:47] * Joins: lyosha (anime4chri@74.93.182.234)
  18. # [01:47] <lyosha> hi ppl
  19. # [01:48] <lyosha> I uploaded my project (or whatever little is a start) to SourceForge (got a headache from trying to figure out Subversion, I used to use CVS long time ago but I dunno how well I did with SVN)
  20. # [01:50] <lyosha> there might be mistakes that could conflict with other javascript libs. If anyone wants to fix those, I'd be thankful for the help
  21. # [01:51] <lyosha> I chose the name Fiks.html for now (if anybody remembers, it's a script to make current browsers display HTML 5 correctly)
  22. # [01:52] <lyosha> I guess Fiks kind of works the best, and I omitted the O since I didn't have anywhere to put it, and Opera can be considered the least broken (it supports Web Forms 2.0 after all =) )
  23. # [01:53] <lyosha> if anybody wants to take a look, here's the SVN repo: http://fikshtml.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/fikshtml/
  24. # [01:59] <lyosha> I'm kinda getting the feeling I either get on when everyone's asleep, or whatwg might be the more appropriate room?
  25. # [02:02] <Hixie> i was responding to feedback on the list :-)
  26. # [02:02] <Hixie> looks cool
  27. # [02:03] <Hixie> you'll probably get more people on board once you've done a lot more work
  28. # [02:03] <Hixie> people seem to ignore people's ideas until those people have shown that they can actually do what they want to do :-)
  29. # [02:04] <Hixie> just look at the whatwg/html5 stuff, the amount of people who were interested in it has been directly proportional to how much work the people already involved had done so far
  30. # [02:05] <lyosha> well, my current todo list on the project isn't that much anyway. Just fix the display of new elements and changed elements
  31. # [02:05] <lyosha> and maybe the DOM
  32. # [02:05] <Hixie> cool
  33. # [02:06] <lyosha> but I don't want to reinvent the wheel with Web Forms 2.0 because it's already been done. A better solution would be to get it to integrate well with those existing projects
  34. # [02:06] <lyosha> I started my project becasue I haven't seen one like it already
  35. # [02:08] <Hixie> yeah integrating with the existing wf2 projects (and maybe breathing more life into them) would be great
  36. # [02:09] <lyosha> I'm having trouble visualizing some of the other new elements such as meter though. I kinda doubt I'll implement it how it's meant to be (and that includes DOM, not only display), so I wanted to get more info from people on that b4 I tried
  37. # [02:10] <lyosha> my current work was extracted from a real life project and cleaned up. I usually don't work on things I'm not using yet, let alone, can't visualize all the way yet
  38. # [02:10] <Hixie> <meter> is basically a gauge
  39. # [02:11] <lyosha> yeah, but it can be circular, linear, look like a existing colntrol, or just a shiney bar, or anything
  40. # [02:11] <Hixie> like as in http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/XHIGControls/chapter_19_section_5.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000359-DontLinkElementID_74
  41. # [02:12] <Hixie> yeah the look isn't well-defined, but that's partially intentional, to allow people to experiment and find good looks and looks that fit well with their platform
  42. # [02:14] <lyosha> oh, I see. but that raises some interesting questions: will the browsers make it look somewhat similar (I can imagine IE being the only one with a pie chart style)? and will the users be able to customize the look with CSS? will that introduce a bunch of -moz-meter-style attributes?
  43. # [02:15] <Hixie> we'll probably standardise on default dimensions pretty soon after the browsers start implementing it
  44. # [02:15] <Hixie> much like the form controls have de-facto default dimensions
  45. # [02:15] <Hixie> as for styling, i don't know
  46. # [02:15] <Hixie> maybe XBL2 will save us :-)
  47. # [02:17] <lyosha> how about <audio> and <video> anybody tried making a script to implement that in current browsers?
  48. # [02:18] <lyosha> some of the new browsers already have that so I don't know if that's worth implementing for older browsers or not
  49. # [02:21] <lyosha> is there a fallback method for those tags? <video><embed></video>?
  50. # [02:24] <lyosha> for the time element, does it show the datetime as a tooltip?
  51. # [02:27] <lyosha> well, that one actually seems as though it's not a stable part of the spec, so I guess I won't do that one yet
  52. # [02:30] <Hixie> yeah <video><embed></video> is the idea
  53. # [02:31] <Hixie> <time> could show the time as a tooltip
  54. # [02:31] <Hixie> doesn't have to though
  55. # [02:33] <lyosha> well, I think it'd be a good idea to implement the things that are for sure first and see how the others go later maybe (or should I set the style and have the browser manufacturers sopy me? lol)
  56. # [02:34] <lyosha> thing with video, is I don't think you can emulate the DOM for audio and video if you translate it to embed in older browsers
  57. # [02:37] <lyosha> methinks if any one feature takes extensive javascript to implement in older browsers, than that particualr feature has failed the part of HTML 5's goal to be backwards compatible. (backwards compatibility isn't HTML 5's only goal, so I wouldn't say it fails HTML 5's goal overall)
  58. # [02:38] <lyosha> those things should then just degrade gracefully (like Web Forms 2.0 input types) or can be implemented by someone more enthusiastic about having every single feature of HTML 5 in old browsers
  59. # [02:39] <lyosha> my goal is to make something practical for most cases
  60. # [02:42] <lyosha> but I dunno, perhaps those things could be added to my script later on, depending on need
  61. # [02:46] * Quits: adele (adele@17.203.15.174) (Quit: adele)
  62. # [02:46] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.203.14.182) (Quit: mjs)
  63. # [02:48] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@92.226.195.36) (Ping timeout)
  64. # [02:54] <lyosha> as for wf2, this one is dead: https://sourceforge.net/projects/wf2/ but this one still seems to be alive: http://code.google.com/p/webforms2/
  65. # [03:01] * Quits: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.75) (Quit: .)
  66. # [03:11] <lyosha> l8rz
  67. # [03:11] * Parts: lyosha (anime4chri@74.93.182.234)
  68. # [03:12] * Joins: mjs (mjs@17.203.14.182)
  69. # [03:31] * Quits: tH (Rob@77.86.6.71) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9/2008061013])
  70. # [03:58] * Quits: mjs (mjs@17.203.14.182) (Ping timeout)
  71. # [05:06] * Joins: mjs (mjs@71.202.125.166)
  72. # [05:09] * Quits: mjs (mjs@71.202.125.166) (Ping timeout)
  73. # [05:10] * Joins: mjs (mjs@69.181.42.194)
  74. # [06:25] * Joins: adele (adele@24.7.125.179)
  75. # [06:29] * Quits: adele (adele@24.7.125.179) (Client exited)
  76. # [06:29] * Joins: adele (adele@24.7.125.179)
  77. # [06:42] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Less talk, more pimp walk.)
  78. # [07:43] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169) (Connection reset by peer)
  79. # [07:48] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169)
  80. # [08:09] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@90.52.84.233)
  81. # [08:21] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@90.52.84.233) (Quit: dsinger)
  82. # [08:46] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@217.167.116.128)
  83. # [08:55] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1)
  84. # [09:11] * Joins: ed (ed@80.187.144.41)
  85. # [09:11] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1) (Connection timed out)
  86. # [09:12] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1)
  87. # [09:19] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  88. # [09:20] * Joins: heycam (cam@80.187.212.29)
  89. # [09:23] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30)
  90. # [09:28] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1) (Connection timed out)
  91. # [09:29] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1)
  92. # [09:46] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1) (Connection timed out)
  93. # [09:46] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1)
  94. # [09:55] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1) (Ping timeout)
  95. # [10:01] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  96. # [10:16] * Joins: anne (annevk@213.199.146.138)
  97. # [10:20] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@213.199.146.138)
  98. # [10:24] <anne> hmm, "This week in HTML 5" missed the mark a bit with respect to "hashchange" but I don't think it matters
  99. # [10:24] <Hixie> yeah i commented
  100. # [10:29] * Joins: aaronlev (chatzilla@92.226.195.36)
  101. # [10:30] * Joins: plinss_ (peter.lins@15.243.169.72)
  102. # [10:30] * Parts: plinss_ (peter.lins@15.243.169.72)
  103. # [10:33] * Quits: mjs (mjs@69.181.42.194) (Quit: mjs)
  104. # [10:34] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22)
  105. # [10:36] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  106. # [10:50] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
  107. # [10:50] * Quits: Dashiva (noone@80.202.213.134) (Ping timeout)
  108. # [11:18] * Quits: ed (ed@80.187.144.41) (Quit: ed)
  109. # [11:28] * Joins: plinss_ (peter.lins@15.243.169.72)
  110. # [11:28] * Parts: plinss_ (peter.lins@15.243.169.72)
  111. # [11:50] * Joins: ed (ed@80.187.147.8)
  112. # [12:08] * Joins: aaronlev_ (chatzilla@92.226.202.54)
  113. # [12:10] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@92.226.195.36) (Ping timeout)
  114. # [12:11] * aaronlev_ is now known as aaronlev
  115. # [12:29] * Joins: plinss_ (peter.lins@15.243.169.69)
  116. # [12:29] * Parts: plinss_ (peter.lins@15.243.169.69)
  117. # [13:08] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  118. # [13:11] * Quits: ed (ed@80.187.147.8) (Quit: ed)
  119. # [13:17] * Parts: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
  120. # [13:17] * Joins: tH (Rob@77.86.6.71)
  121. # [13:22] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@217.167.116.128) (Quit: dsinger)
  122. # [13:41] * Joins: myakura (myakura@118.8.102.216)
  123. # [14:07] * Joins: ed (ed@88.128.82.143)
  124. # [14:09] * tlr is now known as tlr-bbiab
  125. # [14:26] * Joins: Dashiva (noone@80.202.213.134)
  126. # [14:44] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
  127. # [14:59] * Joins: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233)
  128. # [15:18] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  129. # [15:23] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22)
  130. # [15:24] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  131. # [15:24] * tlr-bbiab is now known as tl
  132. # [15:24] * tl is now known as tlr
  133. # [15:27] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  134. # [15:29] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30)
  135. # [15:50] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  136. # [16:08] * Quits: DanC (connolly@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
  137. # [16:08] * Joins: DanC (connolly@128.30.52.30)
  138. # [16:17] * Joins: billmason (billmason@69.30.57.75)
  139. # [16:44] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208])
  140. # [17:07] * Joins: robburns_ (robburns@85.250.133.121)
  141. # [17:31] * Joins: robburns (robburns@85.250.133.121)
  142. # [17:31] * Quits: robburns_ (robburns@85.250.133.121) (Connection reset by peer)
  143. # [17:33] * DanC wonders if now is a good time to prune the list of open issues as suggested in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-issue-tracking/2008Aug/0005.html
  144. # [17:33] <DanC> is anybody around to give feedback? jgraham ?
  145. # [17:39] * Quits: adele (adele@24.7.125.179) (Client exited)
  146. # [17:39] * Joins: adele (adele@24.7.125.179)
  147. # [17:40] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Quit: zcorpan)
  148. # [17:42] * Joins: robburns_ (robburns@85.250.133.121)
  149. # [17:42] * Quits: robburns (robburns@85.250.133.121) (Connection reset by peer)
  150. # [17:50] <jgraham> DanC: I'm supposed to be working on other things atm, sorry :)
  151. # [17:50] <DanC> ok. no problem.
  152. # [17:51] * DanC is making pretty good progress, presuming others concur
  153. # [18:02] <DanC> down to 5 open issues. http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/open
  154. # [18:08] * Joins: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217)
  155. # [18:09] * Quits: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217) (Quit: Laura)
  156. # [18:09] * Joins: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217)
  157. # [18:12] * Joins: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233)
  158. # [18:24] * Quits: myakura (myakura@118.8.102.216) (Quit: Leaving...)
  159. # [18:38] * Quits: adele (adele@24.7.125.179) (Quit: adele)
  160. # [18:44] * Joins: maddiin (mc@87.185.243.172)
  161. # [18:52] * Joins: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.73)
  162. # [19:00] * Joins: adele (adele@17.203.15.230)
  163. # [19:09] * Joins: robburns (robburns@84.108.29.206)
  164. # [19:09] * Quits: robburns_ (robburns@85.250.133.121) (Ping timeout)
  165. # [19:22] * Parts: anne (annevk@213.199.146.138)
  166. # [19:22] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@213.199.146.138) (Ping timeout)
  167. # [19:25] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  168. # [19:33] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208])
  169. # [19:35] * Quits: robburns (robburns@84.108.29.206) (Ping timeout)
  170. # [19:41] * Joins: mjs (mjs@69.181.42.194)
  171. # [19:57] * Quits: mjs (mjs@69.181.42.194) (Quit: mjs)
  172. # [20:21] * Quits: ed (ed@88.128.82.143) (Quit: ed)
  173. # [20:21] * Quits: heycam (cam@80.187.212.29) (Ping timeout)
  174. # [20:24] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30) (Quit: shepazu)
  175. # [20:26] * Quits: drry (drry@210.191.161.90) (Connection reset by peer)
  176. # [20:27] * Joins: drry (drry@210.191.161.90)
  177. # [20:59] * Quits: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217) (Quit: Laura)
  178. # [21:48] * Joins: mjs (mjs@216.239.45.19)
  179. # [21:55] * Joins: jdandrea (jdandrea@68.192.157.123)
  180. # [22:07] * Joins: mjs_ (mjs@216.239.45.19)
  181. # [22:07] * Quits: mjs (mjs@216.239.45.19) (Connection reset by peer)
  182. # [22:08] * Quits: mjs_ (mjs@216.239.45.19) (Connection reset by peer)
  183. # [22:09] * Joins: mjs (mjs@216.239.45.19)
  184. # [22:17] * Quits: mjs (mjs@216.239.45.19) (Quit: mjs)
  185. # [22:39] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  186. # [22:54] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30)
  187. # [22:55] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  188. # [23:00] * Joins: mjs (mjs@216.239.45.19)
  189. # [23:00] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1)
  190. # [23:02] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Quit: tlr)
  191. # [23:09] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@131.111.225.1) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  192. # [23:09] * Quits: maddiin (mc@87.185.243.172) (Quit: maddiin)
  193. # [23:15] * Quits: mjs (mjs@216.239.45.19) (Quit: mjs)
  194. # [23:17] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  195. # [23:26] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30) (Dead Socket)
  196. # [23:26] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30)
  197. # [23:27] * Quits: jdandrea (jdandrea@68.192.157.123) (Quit: ciao)
  198. # [23:32] * Quits: aaronlev (chatzilla@92.226.202.54) (Client exited)
  199. # [23:33] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Quit: tlr)
  200. # [23:38] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  201. # [23:43] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
  202. # [23:48] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  203. # Session Close: Sat Aug 23 00:00:00 2008

The end :)