/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-08-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Aug 31 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  26. # [15:56] <robburns> test
this
out
  27. # [15:57] <robburns> just curious whether a U+0028 would render as a line break. I guess not
  28. # [15:57] <robburns> test
this
out
  29. # [15:57] <robburns> nor U+0029
  30. # [15:59] <Dan> in irc?
  31. # [15:59] <Dan> lol
  32. # [15:59] <Dan> i don't think line breaks are possible here
  33. # [16:00] <robburns> No, they're still there. It's just my client doesn't display them as line breaks (or paragraph breaks)
  34. # [16:00] <Dan> neither does any major client, right?
  35. # [16:00] <robburns> I imagine not
  36. # [16:01] <robburns> if you copy and paste testthisout above, you'll get the line breaks though
  37. # [16:01] <Dan> test
this
out
  38. # [16:01] <Lachy> it rendered as line breaks for me
  39. # [16:01] <robburns> ... paste into a unicode compliant text system that is
  40. # [16:01] <Dan> doesn't work for me - i just get some dodgy encoding
  41. # [16:01] <Dan> ok
  42. # [16:02] <Lachy> Dan, set your IRC client to use UTF-8 encoding for everything
  43. # [16:02] <Dan> i'm on mIRC
  44. # [16:02] <Dan> how do i do it?
  45. # [16:02] * gsnedders votes flipping a coin is the solution
  46. # [16:02] <Lachy> Dan, no idea. Check the preferences or google it
  47. # [16:03] <gsnedders> robburns: Interestingly, OS X's selection model means it selects each word as if it were whitespace separated, despite it not being rendered
  48. # [16:03] <gsnedders> (it == the whitespace)
  49. # [16:04] <robburns> strange. I'm using Colloquy on OS X and I wonder what it does that causes it to not render the breaks
  50. # [16:04] <Philip> Linux/KDE/Konsole's selection model does too, though the letters get offset brokenly
  51. # [16:04] <Dan> well if it's not default, i don;t want to do it, because i want to know what most people see (default view)
  52. # [16:04] <Philip> (i.e. they get offset once you select the text)
  53. # [16:05] <Dan> that's same reason why i don't use AdBlock Plus
  54. # [16:05] <Lachy> Dan, no, never stick with the default encoding if its not UTF-8. Most other people in here have UTF-8, and it should be the default for all IRC
  55. # [16:05] <gsnedders> robburns: It may strip it in the XSLT
  56. # [16:05] <gsnedders> robburns: But that's pure speculation
  57. # [16:06] <Philip> XSLT in an IRC client?
  58. # [16:06] <Lachy> Dan, does this render correctly for you: ☺
  59. # [16:06] <Dan> yes lachy
  60. # [16:06] <gsnedders> Philip: Yeah, Colloquy stores messages as XML then uses XSLT to convert it to HTML for rendering
  61. # [16:06] <Dan> 001
  62. # [16:06] <robburns> gsnedders: I would expect it to not be copyable from the webview then (which is what I think colloquy uses for display))
  63. # [16:06] <gsnedders> robburns: Ah, true
  64. # [16:06] <Lachy> Dan, if you saw a smiley face, then you probably do have UTF-8
  65. # [16:06] <Dan> yep
  66. # [16:07] <robburns> Safari renders the breaks
  67. # [16:08] <robburns> .. and Firefox 3
  68. # [16:08] * gsnedders ought to do schoolwork
  69. # [16:08] <robburns> though maybe they shouldn't (at least with XML 1.1 serialized XHTML they shouldn't, I don't know if anyone's specified anything for text/html)
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  72. # [16:10] <gsnedders> robburns: You want things specified in existing text/html RECs? :P
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  74. # [16:10] <robburns> gsnedders: well I meant also for the draft of HTML5
  75. # [16:11] <gsnedders> robburns: Well, the rendering section isn't written yet
  76. # [16:11] <robburns> in XML 1.1 I IIRC, the U+2028 gets normalized and treated just like any other line break (pre rendering even).
  77. # [16:12] <gsnedders> Or maybe the rendering is spec'd by CSS 2.1, w.r.t. preserving whitespace or not?
  78. # [16:12] * gsnedders shrugs
  79. # [16:13] <robburns> Yes, U+2028 but not U+2029 http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#sec-line-ends
  80. # [16:16] <robburns> Perhaps U+2028 should be normalized and U+2029 should be an error? Not sure how U+2029 should be rendered, but we need to discourage plain text paragraphs in favor of HTML paragraph semantics
  81. # [16:22] <robburns> Dan: from your responses to Lachy and also the fact that your test
this
out paste above still includes the line breaks (upon pasting elsewhere) seems to indicate you're pasting into a text view that either deliberately or errantly doesn't render the line/paragraph breaks). You might try a different text editor or word processor to see them rendered (incidentally, the line breaks are rendered for me as I type this, they just don't get rendered in the
  82. # [16:28] <Dan> hmm, i pasted into notepad and wordpad but no joy - i got all kinds of dodgy characters
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  85. # [16:50] <robburns> Safari and Firefox weren't rendering the line/paragraph breaks. TextEdit fooled me when I saved the text as HTML (adding in BR elements). So both UAs appear to normalize both line breaks and paragraph breaks (beyond what XML 1.1 calls for) and then applies standard CSS 2 whitespace rendering (no new line rendering, but with spaces rendered in between)
  86. # [16:50] <robburns> Normalizing numeric character references too (unlike XML 1.1)
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The end :)