/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-09-04 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  98. # [12:20] <aaronlev> is there any way to get dynamic attribute selectors working in ie8 yet?
  99. # [12:23] <hsivonen> aaronlev: have you tried mutating .className on the affected elements?
  100. # [12:23] <aaronlev> hsivonen: yes that works, i was hoping that using the new html 5 doctype would do it without that
  101. # [12:24] <aaronlev> i thought they had some new standards mode rendering engine
  102. # [12:24] <aaronlev> we need to get this into an acid test i guess :)
  103. # [12:26] <Philip> Or just get a minimal test case and file a bug report :-)
  104. # [12:27] <aaronlev> yes
  105. # [12:27] <aaronlev> i'm doing that too :)
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  150. # [18:03] <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
  151. # [18:03] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  152. # [18:03] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  153. # [18:03] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-html-wg-irc
  154. # [18:03] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  155. # [18:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  156. # [18:03] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  157. # [18:03] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  158. # [18:03] <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
  159. # [18:03] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Issue Tracking Teleconference
  160. # [18:03] <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2008
  161. # [18:04] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
  162. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +2
  163. # [18:04] <Joshue> zakim, +2 is Joshue
  164. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
  165. # [18:04] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
  166. # [18:04] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  167. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Mike
  168. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Laura
  169. # [18:05] <MikeSmith> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  170. # [18:05] <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue, Mike, Laura
  171. # [18:06] <MikeSmith> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/20080903224031.GA8044@toro.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp
  172. # [18:06] * hsivonen Zakim, passcod
  173. # [18:06] * Zakim I don't understand 'passcod', hsivonen
  174. # [18:06] * hsivonen Zakim, passcode
  175. # [18:06] * Zakim I don't understand 'passcode', hsivonen
  176. # [18:06] * hsivonen Zakim, passcode?
  177. # [18:06] * Zakim saw 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152) given for the conference code, hsivonen
  178. # [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.425.467.aabb
  179. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Julian
  180. # [18:07] <MikeSmith> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  181. # [18:07] <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue, Mike, Laura, +1.425.467.aabb, Julian
  182. # [18:07] <smedero> Zakim, aabb is me
  183. # [18:07] <Zakim> +smedero; got it
  184. # [18:07] <Zakim> +??P16
  185. # [18:07] <hsivonen> Zakim, P16 is me
  186. # [18:07] <Zakim> sorry, hsivonen, I do not recognize a party named 'P16'
  187. # [18:08] <MikeSmith> Zakim, ??P16 is hsivonen
  188. # [18:08] <Zakim> +hsivonen; got it
  189. # [18:08] * DanC Zakim, call DanC-work
  190. # [18:08] * Zakim ok, DanC; the call is being made
  191. # [18:08] <Zakim> +DanC
  192. # [18:08] * hsivonen thanks
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  195. # [18:09] <Joshue> zakim, mute me
  196. # [18:09] <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
  197. # [18:09] <anne> Zakim, passcode?
  198. # [18:09] <Zakim> the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), anne
  199. # [18:09] <Zakim> +??P22
  200. # [18:09] <anne> Zakim, ??P22 is me
  201. # [18:10] <Zakim> +anne; got it
  202. # [18:10] <anne> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  203. # [18:10] <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue (muted), Mike, Laura, smedero, Julian, hsivonen, DanC, anne
  204. # [18:10] <MikeSmith> Zakim, pick a scribe
  205. # [18:10] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Mike
  206. # [18:10] <MikeSmith> scribe: anne
  207. # [18:10] <MikeSmith> scribenick: anne
  208. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> Topic: Convene and review the agenda
  209. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> issue-20?
  210. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-20
  211. # [18:11] <trackbot> ISSUE-20 -- Improvements to the table-headers algorithm in the HTML 5 spec -- OPEN
  212. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/20
  213. # [18:11] <anne> MS: ISSUE-20 is on the agenda
  214. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> issue-54?
  215. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-54
  216. # [18:11] <trackbot> ISSUE-54 -- difficulties generating HTML5 from XSLT -- OPEN
  217. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/54
  218. # [18:11] <anne> MS: ISSUE-54 is also on the agenda
  219. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> issue-55?
  220. # [18:11] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-55
  221. # [18:11] <trackbot> ISSUE-55 -- head/@profile missing, but used in other specifications/formats -- RAISED
  222. # [18:11] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/55
  223. # [18:12] <anne> MS: and ISSUE-55
  224. # [18:12] <anne> MS: if we get through those we'll take a look at the tracker. Julian mentioned discussing the new void elements. Lets possibly add that
  225. # [18:13] <anne> MS: Chris Wilson is not here so we skip ISSUE-20 and go straight to ISSUE-54
  226. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> Topic: Issue 54
  227. # [18:13] <anne> MS: regarding XSLT
  228. # [18:13] <Julian> issue-54?
  229. # [18:13] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-54
  230. # [18:13] <trackbot> ISSUE-54 -- difficulties generating HTML5 from XSLT -- OPEN
  231. # [18:13] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/54
  232. # [18:13] <DanC> Topic: ISSUE-54 html5-from-xslt
  233. # [18:13] * DanC please let's have useful headings in the minutes
  234. # [18:14] <anne> MS: what change should be made to the restrictions on the DOCTYPE in HTML5 to make it possible for existing XSLT engines to output conforming HTML5
  235. # [18:14] * anne finds it hard to hear
  236. # [18:15] <anne> MS: XSLT engines can't output <!DOCTYPE html>, but it is a conforming XML DOCTYPE.
  237. # [18:16] <anne> MS: the proposal, is <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC ""> or <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "some value">
  238. # [18:16] <anne> MS: that would help with the XML case but is not valid [scribe: not sure if that was what said]
  239. # [18:16] * Quits: DanC (connolly@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
  240. # [18:16] <anne> MS: I'm not sure the current text in the spec, <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "XSLT-compat"> makes sense, as it's not valid XML and might confuse people
  241. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> q?
  242. # [18:17] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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  245. # [18:17] * DanC recovers from net glitch...
  246. # [18:17] <anne> MS: Any feedback on the current state of things?
  247. # [18:17] <cshelly> having phone trouble, will lurk here
  248. # [18:18] <anne> MS: Hixie added the "XSLT-compat" case to the spec, solely intended for XSLT tools
  249. # [18:18] <Zakim> -Mike
  250. # [18:18] <anne> MS: not clear whether that's the best solution and if that helps people long term
  251. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
  252. # [18:18] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  253. # [18:18] <Zakim> +Mike
  254. # [18:19] <anne> MS: need to decide whether the change is ideal or whether we should go back to what we had before, just have <!doctype html>
  255. # [18:19] <Julian> q+
  256. # [18:19] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  257. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> ack Julian
  258. # [18:19] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  259. # [18:19] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  260. # [18:19] <anne> JR: another option is to allow <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC ""> or <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC ''>
  261. # [18:20] <anne> MS: that is another option certainly
  262. # [18:20] <anne> MS: the reason Hixie didn't like that was that it looked "reasonable"
  263. # [18:20] <anne> MS: he thinks it should look "unreasonable"
  264. # [18:21] <anne> JR: whether it should look "unreasonable" has no consensus
  265. # [18:21] <hsivonen> null and "" are distinct
  266. # [18:21] <anne> JR: I look at it as having two ways to indicate there is no doctype
  267. # [18:22] <anne> MS: Hixie thinks having that gives confusion; changing the meaning of the public ID might not be good
  268. # [18:22] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  269. # [18:23] <anne> MS: it makes DOCTYPEs less purposeful [scribe: I hope I got that correct]
  270. # [18:23] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  271. # [18:23] <anne> JR: I don't really care whether we make it a real public ID in the historical way; I would expect there to be pushback
  272. # [18:23] <DanC> (email seems to be working for this issue... though perhaps I'm not reading clearly enough to see communication breakdowns.)
  273. # [18:23] <anne> JR: I'm open to make it simpler
  274. # [18:24] <hsivonen> q+
  275. # [18:24] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  276. # [18:24] <anne> JR: I think XSLT-compat is misleading and will also cause confusing
  277. # [18:24] <MikeSmith> ack hsivonen
  278. # [18:24] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  279. # [18:24] <anne> MS: none of us is going to say things not said on e-mail
  280. # [18:24] <anne> HS: this is damned if you do, damned if you don't situation
  281. # [18:25] <anne> MS: adding a DOCTYPE makes things confusing, not adding one makes XSLT people annoyed
  282. # [18:25] <anne> s/MS:/HS:/
  283. # [18:25] <anne> HS: I'm happy to flip-flop on the empty string and use XSLT-compat to make it clear it's not for most people
  284. # [18:26] <anne> MS: we'd only want people to use the long form if that's all their tool can
  285. # [18:26] <hsivonen> (not really "happy")
  286. # [18:26] <anne> DC: what do you mean with "we"?
  287. # [18:26] <takkaria> I think there's a really big problem with allowing 'public ""' in the doctype; it interacts badly with quirks mode. if xslt people want to write standards-mode content, they're better off fixing the output mode than outputting quirky content
  288. # [18:26] <anne> MS: I think most people want the spec to be simple and not provide options unless necessary
  289. # [18:27] <Julian> q+
  290. # [18:27] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  291. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> ack Julian
  292. # [18:27] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  293. # [18:27] <hsivonen> takkaria, which browser?
  294. # [18:27] <anne> MS: this might be a case where it is not necessary to add complication
  295. # [18:27] <hsivonen> q+
  296. # [18:27] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  297. # [18:27] <DanC> takkaria, is the interaction with quirks mode in email? I missed that. That seems more significant than aesthetic arguments.
  298. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> takkaria: if you have data for that, please mail it to the list
  299. # [18:27] <DanC> q+
  300. # [18:27] * Zakim sees hsivonen, DanC on the speaker queue
  301. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> ack hsivonen
  302. # [18:27] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  303. # [18:27] <anne> JR: If the goal is to have one notation for the DOCTYPE and another goal is to allow XSLT to generate HTML5 we could pick the longer
  304. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> q?
  305. # [18:28] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  306. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> ack DanC
  307. # [18:28] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  308. # [18:28] <anne> HS: I don't think we should make it longer just for XSLT
  309. # [18:28] <takkaria> (I thought it had already been mentioned on the list; has it not?)
  310. # [18:28] <anne> (Also, some optional features of XSLT do allow <!doctype html>.)
  311. # [18:29] <DanC> <takkaria> I think there's a really big problem with allowing 'public ""' in the doctype; it interacts badly with quirks mode. if xslt people want to write standards-mode content, they're better off fixing the output mode than outputting quirky content
  312. # [18:29] <hsivonen> takkaria, my testing showed it was OK with modes
  313. # [18:29] * takkaria goes archive-hunting
  314. # [18:30] <anne> MS: I want to close this topic for now as there's no new information and not close to a resolution
  315. # [18:30] <anne> issue-55?
  316. # [18:30] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-55
  317. # [18:30] <trackbot> ISSUE-55 -- head/@profile missing, but used in other specifications/formats -- RAISED
  318. # [18:30] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/55
  319. # [18:30] <MikeSmith> Topic: Issue 55 (the profile attribute)
  320. # [18:30] <anne> Topic: <head profile>
  321. # [18:30] <DanC> editor's rationale from 6 May: http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2008-May/014692.html
  322. # [18:31] <anne> MS: <head profile> is not part of HTML5 and there hasn't been much new e-mail on this topic
  323. # [18:31] <anne> MS: some new data on the case of making it conformant
  324. # [18:31] <DanC> dissenting argument from 9 Jul 2007: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0571.html
  325. # [18:31] <anne> (scribe hasn't seen data that suggests it was used in a conforming way)
  326. # [18:32] <anne> MS: Some popular WordPress themes or plugins are generating <head profile>
  327. # [18:32] <anne> [Can't be removed by a WordPress upgrade.]
  328. # [18:33] <anne> MS: It seems there's not much support for re-adding profile to the HTML vocabulary
  329. # [18:33] <MikeSmith> q?
  330. # [18:33] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  331. # [18:33] <Julian> +1 to DanC
  332. # [18:33] <anne> DC: I think the cost is small and the benefit is to be seen; I said this before
  333. # [18:33] <anne> DC: I'm waiting for a survey so I can formally object and we can move on
  334. # [18:34] <anne> MS: I'll put the question to the group
  335. # [18:34] <Julian> q+
  336. # [18:34] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  337. # [18:35] <MikeSmith> ack Julian
  338. # [18:35] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  339. # [18:35] <anne> MS: [explains various options for the survey]
  340. # [18:35] <Julian> q+
  341. # [18:35] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  342. # [18:35] <anne> DC: I think it's up for the chairs to determine whether the editor made all the considerations
  343. # [18:35] <MikeSmith> ack Julian
  344. # [18:35] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  345. # [18:35] <anne> DC: up to the chairs to say that a discussion is done
  346. # [18:36] <anne> JR: I'd don't like to judge the editor, but the technical issue itself
  347. # [18:36] <anne> MS: I think it's useful for people in the group to say whether or not they trust the editor
  348. # [18:37] * anne hopes people follow the minutes
  349. # [18:37] * anne ... and make corrections...
  350. # [18:37] <anne> MS: it's not clear-cut who's right and we have to make some kind of decisions
  351. # [18:37] <hsivonen> q+
  352. # [18:37] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  353. # [18:37] <DanC> (I think the question should just be "shall HTML 5 have no profile attribute on the head element?")
  354. # [18:38] <anne> MS: in most WGs it's the chairs, but for better or worse a lot of the decisions of things in the spec now have been made
  355. # [18:38] <DanC> (no reason to continue/condone the "or worse" parts of the process)
  356. # [18:38] <anne> JR: I don't think it's a good idea to conflate both issues as it might effect the outcome
  357. # [18:39] <anne> MS: That's the point, we want to know why people say something
  358. # [18:39] <anne> DC: I don't think that's possible
  359. # [18:39] <anne> DC: if they don't give rationale, don't consider them
  360. # [18:39] * Joins: deane (deane@121.72.181.41)
  361. # [18:39] <anne> MS: I will talk about this with Chris and Dan as this is a process issue
  362. # [18:40] * DanC wonders why this is more complicated than 3 line mail message ending with "any objections?"
  363. # [18:40] <hsivonen> I'm in q
  364. # [18:40] <DanC> ack hsivonen
  365. # [18:40] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  366. # [18:40] * Joins: MikeSmith^ (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  367. # [18:41] <anne> HS: I'd prefer to defer the question on profile until after we've considered a way to have a category of attributes not to recommend to authors of new documents but not forbid
  368. # [18:41] <Julian> q+
  369. # [18:41] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  370. # [18:41] <MikeSmith^> q?
  371. # [18:41] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  372. # [18:41] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
  373. # [18:42] <anne> HS: allowing it in the validator is easy, but there's a complexity cost for authors. Microformats authors might care for it, but then consumers don't, etc.
  374. # [18:43] <anne> MS: How do long do you think the discussion for the other attributes will take?
  375. # [18:43] <anne> HS: I've no idea whether there's a satisfactory solution to that problem. (Category of conforming non-endorsed attributes.)
  376. # [18:43] <DanC> (I suppose it's OK with me to move the profile attribute back to "raised" while the discussion of not-very-nice attributes; the recent data HS collected certainly makes me wonder about various things.)
  377. # [18:43] <Julian> q-
  378. # [18:43] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  379. # [18:43] <DanC> (I'm also OK to have the issue closed for now and re-open it if new data comes up)
  380. # [18:44] <MikeSmith^> q?
  381. # [18:44] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  382. # [18:44] * Joins: adele (adele@17.203.15.170)
  383. # [18:44] <Julian> (it would be good if the Microformats community would come up with an answer whether or not to @profile)
  384. # [18:44] <anne> MS: I would like a decision
  385. # [18:45] <MikeSmith^> q?
  386. # [18:45] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  387. # [18:45] <anne> MS: anything else on profile? move on?
  388. # [18:45] <DanC> (I recently checked in #microformats and didn't find much support for @profile; cf http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/08/the_details_of_data_in_documen.html )
  389. # [18:45] <anne> MS: we could go to the tracker agenda but I don't see anything urgent
  390. # [18:45] <anne> MS: we could talk about void elements
  391. # [18:46] <anne> Topic: new void elements
  392. # [18:46] <Julian> q+
  393. # [18:46] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  394. # [18:46] <anne> (<script></script> is an empty element, which would be a confusing term to use therefore)
  395. # [18:46] <MikeSmith^> ack Julian
  396. # [18:46] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  397. # [18:46] <anne> Zakim, who makes noise?
  398. # [18:46] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, anne.
  399. # [18:46] * DanC Zakim, who's making noise?
  400. # [18:46] * Zakim DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: smedero (9%), Julian (5%)
  401. # [18:46] <hsivonen> Julian, it would be nice if microformats had a specced processing model and conformance reqs
  402. # [18:47] <smedero> Zakim, mute me
  403. # [18:47] <Zakim> smedero should now be muted
  404. # [18:47] <anne> JR: Even if we did the DOCTYPE thing for XSLT, they still wouldn't do the new elements; they also wouldn't do SVG and MathML
  405. # [18:47] <DanC> q+
  406. # [18:47] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  407. # [18:47] <DanC> q+ to ask for pointers to earlier discussion of void elements
  408. # [18:47] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  409. # [18:48] <anne> JR: Users of HTML have no information on whether an element is a void element.
  410. # [18:48] <Zakim> -smedero
  411. # [18:48] <hsivonen> q+
  412. # [18:48] * Zakim sees DanC, hsivonen on the speaker queue
  413. # [18:49] <anne> JR: Having a fixed set of void elements from HTML4 was nice, but now all those sets over the Web need to be updated. Would like to have a story that also works for HTML5+n
  414. # [18:49] <MikeSmith^> ack DanC
  415. # [18:49] <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to ask for pointers to earlier discussion of void elements
  416. # [18:49] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  417. # [18:49] <anne> DC: I find it hard to believe that since 2004 this hasn't already come up
  418. # [18:49] <Zakim> +Shawn_Medero
  419. # [18:50] <MikeSmith^> anne: I don't have pointers, but was seen as a minor issue by browsers at least
  420. # [18:50] <MikeSmith^> q?
  421. # [18:50] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  422. # [18:50] <anne> AvK: and also for authors, in terms of backwards compatibility
  423. # [18:50] <MikeSmith^> ack hsivonen
  424. # [18:50] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  425. # [18:51] <anne> HS: I had considered this issue before but I didn't see it as a big deal. I would write a serializer with a liberal license that other people then can use.
  426. # [18:51] <anne> HS: Just make enough HTML libraries and problem solved.
  427. # [18:52] <Julian> q+
  428. # [18:52] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  429. # [18:52] <anne> HS: I thought everyone would bring their own serializer. I can see a problem here, but I don't think it's as big as JR makes it seem.
  430. # [18:52] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241)
  431. # [18:52] <anne> HS: These void elements also don't come up all the time. There's been a ten year break or so...
  432. # [18:53] <MikeSmith^> q+ to mention cost of adding support for new void elements to libraries and other tools
  433. # [18:53] * Zakim sees Julian, MikeSmith^ on the speaker queue
  434. # [18:53] <anne> HS: I can see how the implied paragraph end tag and void elements is in theory bad, but I'm not sure if it's really a problem in practice
  435. # [18:53] <MikeSmith^> ack Julian
  436. # [18:53] * Zakim sees MikeSmith^ on the speaker queue
  437. # [18:54] <anne> JR: I assume HSs' serializer also has a hardwired set of elements. Whatever seralizer you take it will generate a start and end tag and user agents will have to deal with it.
  438. # [18:54] <anne> JR: I'm totally sure that eg <eventsource></eventsource> will turn up in the real Web
  439. # [18:55] <anne> DC: The spec already deals with every input stream, right?
  440. # [18:55] <DanC> (I think whether it's void or not is a pretty small part of the design of new elements)
  441. # [18:55] <anne> HS: the spec covers parsing yes, but eg. <command></command> is non-conforming for text/html
  442. # [18:56] <MikeSmith^> ack MikeSmith^
  443. # [18:56] <Zakim> MikeSmith^, you wanted to mention cost of adding support for new void elements to libraries and other tools
  444. # [18:56] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  445. # [18:56] <anne> JR: If there's no technical problem it's just believe
  446. # [18:57] <hsivonen> q+
  447. # [18:57] * Zakim sees hsivonen on the speaker queue
  448. # [18:57] <Laura> Steve and Gez have conficting meetings. Sends regrets.
  449. # [18:57] <Laura> regrets+ SteveF
  450. # [18:57] <Laura> regrets+ GezLemon
  451. # [18:58] <anne> AvK: it gives confusion with <br>, where <br></br> does different things, authors will get confused because they think they can put stuff inside, updating a fixed list is small
  452. # [18:58] <anne> JR: the problem is to deploy those libraries
  453. # [18:59] <MikeSmith^> ack hsivonen
  454. # [18:59] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  455. # [18:59] <anne> MS: those elements are not supported currently, so it will take some time anyway
  456. # [18:59] <anne> HS: two void elements XSLT doesn't deal with are already widely deployed, <embed> and to lesser extent <source>
  457. # [19:00] <anne> HS: the question is whether we should introduce new void elements in HTML5
  458. # [19:00] <anne> HS: should we have <command>command-type</command> and <eventsource></eventsource> instead?
  459. # [19:01] <deane> anne: I think allowing <command></command> and <eventsource></eventsource> would be a bad move
  460. # [19:01] <anne> HS: so the question is whether the HTML5 spec is the last spec to introduce new void elements (<source> and <embed>), or will we have new elements?
  461. # [19:01] <anne> deane, I'm the scribe
  462. # [19:01] <Julian> +1 to henri
  463. # [19:01] <MikeSmith^> q?
  464. # [19:01] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  465. # [19:02] <hsivonen> <p>foo<aside> will hurt authors more likely
  466. # [19:02] <anne> It would be interesting to see in a few years whether <source> has been a problem.
  467. # [19:03] <anne> Then we can decide for HTML6 whether it was worth it
  468. # [19:03] <anne> MS: [scribe missed a lot]
  469. # [19:03] <anne> ... So we will have a meeting next week, same time. Chris Wilson chairing.
  470. # [19:04] <anne> ... If anybody would like to volunteer to scribe for that meeting, speak up
  471. # [19:04] <anne> DC: I'm probably available
  472. # [19:04] <anne> MS: CW will be sending a detailed agenda
  473. # [19:04] <anne> MS: adjourn
  474. # [19:04] * Parts: Joshue (Joshue@86.46.9.143)
  475. # [19:04] <Zakim> -hsivonen
  476. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  477. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Shawn_Medero
  478. # [19:05] <Zakim> -Joshue
  479. # [19:05] <anne> RRSAgent, make minutes
  480. # [19:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/09/04-html-wg-minutes.html anne
  481. # [19:05] <anne> RRSAgent, make logs public
  482. # [19:05] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, anne
  483. # [19:05] * Quits: cshelly (cc93ddfd@128.30.52.43) (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
  484. # [19:06] <Zakim> -Laura
  485. # [19:06] <smedero> I updated ISSUE-54 (html5-from-xslt) with a pointer to data and limited test concerning <!doctype html public ""> and quirks mode... hopefully someone can push those tests a little further if need be.
  486. # [19:06] <Zakim> -anne
  487. # [19:06] <Zakim> -Mike
  488. # [19:06] <Zakim> -Julian
  489. # [19:06] <smedero> (notes at the bottom, after all the email links...)
  490. # [19:06] <MikeSmith^> smedero: cool -- thanks
  491. # [19:07] * Quits: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217) (Quit: Laura)
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  495. # [19:36] * Parts: deane (deane@121.72.181.41) (Konversation terminated!)
  496. # [19:40] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, DanC, in HTML_WG()12:00PM
  497. # [19:40] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  498. # [19:40] <Zakim> Attendees were Joshue, Mike, Laura, +1.425.467.aabb, Julian, smedero, hsivonen, DanC, anne, Cynthia_Shelly, Shawn_Medero
  499. # [19:52] <anne> Zakim, bye
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  533. # Session Close: Fri Sep 05 00:00:01 2008

The end :)