/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-10-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Oct 17 00:00:00 2008
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  58. # [10:36] <MikeSmith> http://blog.jclark.com/2008/10/xml-10-5th-edition.html
  59. # [10:36] <pimpbot> Title: James Clark's Random Thoughts: XML 1.0 5th edition (at blog.jclark.com)
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  63. # [10:49] <mjs> wait, so XML 1.0 is going to turn into XML 1.1?
  64. # [11:02] <MikeSmith> mjs: I think XML 1.0 5th Edition is XML 1.1 minus e.g., the EBDIC junk
  65. # [11:04] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  66. # [11:04] <anne> XML 1.0 5th E obsoletes the need for XML 1.1
  67. # [11:06] <Hixie> it also makes all xml processors non-compliant
  68. # [11:06] <mjs> it obsoletes all existing XML software
  69. # [11:06] <mjs> it also obsoletes namespaces in xml 1.0 apparently
  70. # [11:06] <Hixie> which is an odd thing to do for a technology with such an unprecedented level of interop
  71. # [11:06] <Hixie> mjs: that that have any practical normative effect?
  72. # [11:06] <Hixie> i thought xmlns11 was equivalent in all ways to xmlns10
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  74. # [11:13] <mjs> Hixie: well there's no ns in xml 1.0 5th ed afaik
  75. # [11:13] <mjs> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-editor/2008OctDec/0016.html
  76. # [11:13] <pimpbot> Title: Comments on XML 1.0 5th edition from James Clark on 2008-10-17 (xml-editor@w3.org from October to December 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
  77. # [11:13] <mjs> James's objection may be overly technical
  78. # [11:15] <anne> mjs, NS has always been a separate spec on top of the XML spec
  79. # [11:15] <mjs> anne: yes, and...?
  80. # [11:16] <anne> so NS should still work with XML 1.0 5
  81. # [11:17] <mjs> anne: but the combination of the two has a probably unintended bug
  82. # [11:17] <mjs> (see Joe's email)
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  84. # [11:20] <anne> I see
  85. # [11:20] <anne> meh
  86. # [11:21] <Hixie> i don't see that as obsoleting xmlns10
  87. # [11:21] <Hixie> just breaks a few technicalities
  88. # [11:21] <Hixie> but what spec doesn't!
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  90. # [11:23] <anne> XML 1.0 5 nicely paves the path for XML5
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  94. # [12:06] <pimpbot> planet: WHATWG meetups <http://blog.whatwg.org/october-2008-meetups>
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  103. # [14:11] * hsivonen has an unfinished blog post about XML 1.0 on his hard drive
  104. # [14:12] <hsivonen> I wonder if finishing it would be a good use of time.
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  106. # [14:19] <Julian> hard to say without knowing the contents :-)
  107. # [14:22] <hsivonen> Julian: it's mostly about how non-American software developers use English-based identifiers and how enabling e.g. Khmer element names seems righteous but actually is a suggestion that Cambodians lock themselves out of the global market and don't come compete with those who propse these amendments
  108. # [14:26] <hsivonen> (in the Finnish software companies that I've worked at, even bug trackers were in English--even for all-Finnish teams--enabling partnering with anyone and hiring anyone)
  109. # [14:27] <Philip> (Is it safe to assume that "the global market" speaks English?)
  110. # [14:27] <hsivonen> Philip: for software developers, yeah (except perhaps for Japan, I guess)
  111. # [14:28] <wilhelm> Not in Asia, no.
  112. # [14:28] <wilhelm> Especially not in Japan.
  113. # [14:28] <Lachy> Philip, yes. for international communication, English seems like the dominant language
  114. # [14:28] <hsivonen> Philip: or more to the point, they don't *speak*, but they need to *read* it
  115. # [14:29] <hsivonen> I haven't seen the source code of Opera, but I'd be extremely surprised if the method names were in Norwegian
  116. # [14:33] <MikeSmith> I can remember digging into SAP stuff and running in German (not the source code of course)
  117. # [14:34] <Philip> European languages are pretty close to English anyway, since they have basically the same letters
  118. # [14:34] <Philip> so I can read them and mispronounce them in a way that makes some sort of sense to me, whereas if I see Asian text then it's just a mess of lines and I haven't got a clue what anything is and I can't recognise any patterns
  119. # [14:35] <Philip> so I assume there are people for whom it works the opposite way around
  120. # [14:36] <hsivonen> Philip: imagine becoming a good developer when the Javadocs or MSDN or POD or heredocs or whatever are available only in English and sometimes Japanese
  121. # [14:37] <hsivonen> plus all the classic books on computer science
  122. # [14:37] <erm> if an asian sees accented latin characters, it looks like gobbledygook, but i think the 26 letters of english alphabet all display as expected on most foreign machines
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  127. # [14:57] <Julian> hisovenen: sounds like a good thing to point out
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The end :)