/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-12-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Dec 09 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  14. # [04:03] <MikeSmith> http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2008-December/017732.html
  15. # [04:03] <pimpbot> Title: [whatwg] Thoughts on video accessibility (at lists.whatwg.org)
  16. # [04:05] <MikeSmith> from Silvia Pfeiffer: "For the last 2 months, I have been investigating means of satisfying video accessibility needs through Ogg in Mozilla/Firefox for HTML5... I'd like to stimulate a discussion here about how we can support out-of-band time-aligned text for video in HTML5... I have seen previous proposals, such as the "track" element at and would like to propose the following specification."
  17. # [04:12] <Hixie> i wish people would stop suggesting extensions to these features before they were implemented
  18. # [04:19] <MikeSmith> Hixie: maybe it'll help to provide more motivation to implement them
  19. # [04:19] <MikeSmith> I guess people suggest things when they have time and interest and enthusiasm
  20. # [04:20] <MikeSmith> and expecting them to wait til later kinda maybe dampens enthusiasm
  21. # [04:20] <Hixie> the more features we add the less implementations get right
  22. # [04:21] <MikeSmith> I can definitely understand that
  23. # [04:21] <MikeSmith> I can also understand people with insight into accessibility wanting the accessibility issues to get addressed sooner rather than later
  24. # [04:23] <Hixie> the accessibility of Ogg and MPEG seem to be the responsibility of the Ogg and MPEG groups respectively, not ours :-)
  25. # [04:23] <MikeSmith> and especially being concerned that the implementations will end up done in a way that prevents accessibility features from being added to them later
  26. # [04:23] <Hixie> i don't see why people would be concerened about that, i mean, what could possibly be done to prevent adding bolt-on accessibility features later?
  27. # [04:25] <MikeSmith> dunno. I know a lot of people aren't particularly thrilled with lack of accessibility in <canvas>.. though I guess that's more of an issue of its lack of (or very limited) accessibility being inherent to it
  28. # [04:26] <Hixie> i don't really understand what it would mean for <canvas> to be more accessible than it is today
  29. # [04:27] <Hixie> it seems to me to be just as accessible as <object>
  30. # [04:27] <Hixie> and nobody is complaining about that as far as i can tell
  31. # [04:29] <MikeSmith> I guess it was maybe that we were stuck with object, but that adding a new element that was similarly lacking-accessibility-by-design was maybe not the best thing to do
  32. # [04:29] <MikeSmith> not saying that I agree with that
  33. # [04:30] <MikeSmith> but anyway, it's a moot point now that canvas has been implemented across multiple browsers
  34. # [04:30] <MikeSmith> and there are obviously a lot of developers that are very happy to have it
  35. # [04:30] <Hixie> i don't think it's that, since people complain about <img> all the time, despite us being "stuck with it" even more than <object>
  36. # [04:31] <MikeSmith> yeah, I guess that's true
  37. # [04:31] <MikeSmith> maybe it's an issue of canvas actually being a lot more useful than object
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  81. # [13:31] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: the common.data.tokens.comma-separated datatype is not actually used by any referenced patterns in the schema, so should me removed, I think
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  91. # [13:56] * Set by MikeSmith on Fri Sep 19 02:09:54
  92. # [13:56] <MikeSmith> man, I dig the fact that Web Inspector lets you use XPath expressions
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  97. # [14:01] * Set by MikeSmith on Fri Sep 19 02:09:54
  98. # [14:01] <Philip> but still they seem wholly useless
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  104. # [14:04] <MikeSmith> heh
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  152. # [19:24] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: axis dates from a time when HTML5 didn't have tables at all. I should remove it.
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  162. # [21:05] * karl wonders if MikeSmith seen this http://titaniumapp.com/
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  164. # [21:10] <karl> >Titanium is built on top of WebKit
  165. # [21:14] <Philip> Is anyone making a new browser that's *not* built on WebKit?
  166. # [21:16] <Dashiva> Blackbird?
  167. # [21:17] <hsivonen> Is Titanium like an Open Source AIR?
  168. # [21:25] <karl> hsivonen: it seems
  169. # [21:25] <karl> it seems to be like a layer of painting for creating a desktop app over a browser engine
  170. # [21:25] <karl> which is not necessary always good but interesting to see.
  171. # [21:26] <hsivonen> It'll be interesting to see how it fares compared to AIR
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  173. # [21:27] <karl> so far I didn't have a very successful user experience with Adobe Air on the mac.
  174. # [21:28] <karl> though I'm biaised I guess, I have a tendency to prefer desktop apps which integrate an http layer, than browser apps which tries to look like desktop apps
  175. # [21:29] <karl> I discovered this recently too http://ditchnet.org/httpclient/
  176. # [21:29] <pimpbot> Title: HTTP Client - Mac Developer Tool for HTTP Debugging (at ditchnet.org)
  177. # [21:29] <karl> > A Mac OS X Leopard developer tool for debugging HTTP services by graphically creating & inspecting complex HTTP messages.
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  193. # [23:30] <karl> about Canvas
  194. # [23:30] <karl> >The only thing that strikes me as odd, strictly from an interface perspective, is the fact that I can’t drag the “image” to the Desktop, the way that I would a JPEG or GIF image.
  195. # [23:31] <karl> -- http://benfry.com/writing/archives/223
  196. # [23:31] <pimpbot> Title: writing | ben fry Subjectively Attractive Client-Side Scripted Browser-Delivered Charts and Plots (at benfry.com)
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The end :)