/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-12-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Dec 10 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  12. # [02:15] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I posted a number of separate small patches to v.nu bugzilla
  13. # [02:15] <MikeSmith> if you prefer to take a look at them as one big patch, I can send you that too
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  15. # [02:57] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: separate patches are fine. I meant to follow up on the patches, but I've been busy in meetings
  16. # [02:57] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yep, understood
  17. # [02:57] <MikeSmith> no problem
  18. # [02:58] <MikeSmith> the patches are mostly trivial
  19. # [02:58] <MikeSmith> just sent them for convenience of review
  20. # [02:58] <MikeSmith> and because I'm already using them myself, for generating the document-conformance draft
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  28. # [04:53] <MikeSmith> http://norman.walsh.name/2008/12/09/endTAG
  29. # [04:53] <pimpbot> Title: (at norman.walsh.name)
  30. # [04:53] <MikeSmith> "I've been an elected member of the W3C Technical Architecture Group for eight years. I've had a wonderful time and I hope that I've contributed in useful ways, but I feel like it's time to step aside, at least for a little while."
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  35. # [06:35] <MikeSmith> Hixie: does the value attribute on <input type=url> need to specify an absolute URL?
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  39. # [07:47] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: spec says input[@type=url]/@value is just a just a "valid URL", not necessarily an absolute URL
  40. # [07:47] <MikeSmith> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#url-state
  41. # [07:47] <pimpbot> Title: 4.10 Forms HTML 5 (at www.whatwg.org)
  42. # [07:48] <MikeSmith> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/infrastructure.html#valid-url
  43. # [07:48] <pimpbot> Title: 2 Common infrastructure HTML 5 (at www.whatwg.org)
  44. # [07:48] * MikeSmith raises issue at v.nu bugzilla
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  54. # [09:52] <Hixie> MikeSmith: yeah, we should use absolute urls. send mail?
  55. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> Hixie: OK
  56. # [09:53] <MikeSmith> absolute URLs throughout? or just for value attribute on <input type=url> ?
  57. # [09:54] <Hixie> for the type=url control
  58. # [09:54] <Hixie> doesn't make much sense to allow relative urls
  59. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> Hixie: OK
  60. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> I'll raise a W3C bugzilla bug for it
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  62. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6293
  63. # [10:01] <pimpbot> 6293: mike@w3.org, P2, NEW, specify that the value attribute on <input type=url> must be an absolute URL
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  66. # [10:10] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 6293] New: specify that the value attribute on must be an absolute URL" ( message in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2008Dec/0017.html>
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  71. # [10:40] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 6294] New: Date microsyntax defines incorrect range for month and day fields" (1 message in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2008Dec/0018.html>
  72. # [10:41] <Lachy> I wonder why the W3C buzilla is using ISO-8859-1 instead of UTF-8? It converted "≤" to "&#8804;" in my bug report
  73. # [10:41] <MikeSmith> Lachy: hmm, that's not good. it should use UTF-8
  74. # [10:41] * MikeSmith sends mail to sysreq
  75. # [10:43] <Lachy> it's possibly because it's an old version of buzilla that used ISO-8859-1 as the default. I remember Mozilla went to a lot of effort to change theirs over a few years ago
  76. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> Lachy: I think they're using a fairly new version
  77. # [10:45] <Lachy> yeah, but simply upgrading probably wouldn't change the encoding for compatibility reasons, since the DB would have to be converted on the backend to use UTF-8
  78. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> ah
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  81. # [11:13] <MikeSmith> as defined in the HTML5, can an "absolute URL" end with a hash and fragment ID?
  82. # [11:14] <MikeSmith> s/the HTML5/the HTML5 spec/
  83. # [11:18] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@213.236.208.22)
  84. # [11:20] <MikeSmith> Lachy: do you know if an "absolute URL", as defined in HTML5, can end with a hash and fragment ID?
  85. # [11:21] <anne> I think it does
  86. # [11:21] <anne> s/does/can/
  87. # [11:22] <Lachy> MikeSmith, I assume so. Check the spec to be sure, though
  88. # [11:25] <MikeSmith> anne, Lachy - OK
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  94. # [12:20] <gsnedders> .t
  95. # [12:20] <phenny> Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:19:32 GMT
  96. # [12:20] <gsnedders> So I haven't lagged out
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  99. # [12:41] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 6293] specify that the value attribute on must be an absolute URL" (1 message in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2008Dec/0019.html>
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  103. # [13:30] <gsnedders> .t
  104. # [13:30] <phenny> Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:28:46 GMT
  105. # [13:35] <gsnedders> 4 minutes lag. That's impressive.
  106. # [13:35] <gsnedders> Esp. without not being kicked
  107. # [13:42] <wilhelm> gsnedders: jmirc + Opera Mini is your friend.
  108. # [13:42] <gsnedders> wilhelm: My problem is that data is stupidly expensive
  109. # [13:46] <wilhelm> IRC is cheap, and Mini compresses pages about 80-85%. (c:
  110. # [13:48] <gsnedders> wilhelm: It's still stupidly expensive, and I don't want to browse the web on a tiny screen
  111. # [13:52] <gsnedders> anyhow, bye
  112. # [13:52] * gsnedders hopes he gets back on wifi :\
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  115. # [14:16] <gsnedders> It would I appear I do get back on wifi
  116. # [14:17] <anne> MikeSmith, is it really your plan to make that markup spec normative?
  117. # [14:19] <MikeSmith> anne: it's my plan to try to produce something that could be published as a normative, Rec-track doc, yeah
  118. # [14:21] <MikeSmith> and to first show whether it's actually do-able or not to put together a document-conformance spec that can stand on its own
  119. # [14:21] <MikeSmith> I'm inclined at this point to think that it's actually doable
  120. # [14:21] <MikeSmith> but it's nowhere near complete yet, so I could end up being wrong
  121. # [14:21] <anne> but do we want two specs to define the same thing in a normative way?
  122. # [14:22] <MikeSmith> anne: no, we don't
  123. # [14:22] * anne sees a problem then :)
  124. # [14:22] <MikeSmith> yeah
  125. # [14:22] <MikeSmith> or an opportunity
  126. # [14:22] <anne> mwaha, specs enough
  127. # [14:23] * gsnedders has hair falling in his face
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  130. # [14:43] * karl sees an opportunity.
  131. # [14:46] <MikeSmith> an opportunity is an accident waiting to happen
  132. # [14:46] <MikeSmith> but sometimes accidents are happy accidents
  133. # [14:46] <MikeSmith> though at other times, they are just plain accidents
  134. # [14:46] <MikeSmith> or disasters
  135. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> speaking of disasters, the latest lastweekinhml5 has made me seriously re-assess my image of Mr. Last Week
  136. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> I'm finding it hard to reconcile my previous image of him with this new one -- the one who appears to be an MC5 fan
  137. # [14:49] * MikeSmith raises his Goblet of Rock to the MC5
  138. # [14:49] <MikeSmith> every time the word "MC5" is spoken, we must raise our Goblets of Rock in solemn tribute
  139. # [14:50] <MikeSmith> being an MC5 fan is like being a Mason
  140. # [14:51] <MikeSmith> if you find out that another person is a true MC5 fan, you are obligated to extend every courtesy to them that you can
  141. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> unless they do something to somehow break the bonds of MC5-fanhood
  142. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> e.g., by saying something disrespectful of Fred "Sonic" Smith
  143. # [14:54] <MikeSmith> or simply by not adhering to the belief that he is solidly among the pantheon of the most ultra-badass badass guitar players who ever walked the earth
  144. # [14:54] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.28.34.132) (Ping timeout)
  145. # [14:54] * jgraham works on the assumption that mrlastweek is actually just a pseudonym for Hixie
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  147. # [14:55] <MikeSmith> heh
  148. # [14:57] * MikeSmith tries to think of anybody he's come in contact with around standards who has displayed half a lick of awareness about the MC5... and comes up empty
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  150. # [14:57] <MikeSmith> some people keep their secrets well
  151. # [14:58] <gsnedders> "Some days come clean/Other days are sneaky/Some days take less/But most days take more"
  152. # [14:58] <MikeSmith> wait, gsnedders... he's got the tribute-to-Rob-Tyner hairstyle, some signs of music obsession.. could he be Mr. Last Week?
  153. # [14:59] <MikeSmith> that whole thing with "I'm listening to Christian heavy metal right now" could just all be a ruse
  154. # [14:59] * gsnedders feels compelled to add that to his about page
  155. # [14:59] <MikeSmith> a non-American ruse
  156. # [14:59] <MikeSmith> this is all making sense now
  157. # [15:00] <gsnedders> not heavy metal, just tamer metal
  158. # [15:00] <MikeSmith> Rob Tyner would have kicked the crap out of any Christian heavy-metaler he ever came across
  159. # [15:00] <MikeSmith> at least if he was sober at the time
  160. # [15:01] <MikeSmith> and even if we wasn't sober at time, he still would have tried
  161. # [15:01] <gsnedders> This wifi really, really, really, really sucks.
  162. # [15:03] <gsnedders> now, these claims of me not drinking…
  163. # [15:03] <gsnedders> down to 3KB/s
  164. # [15:03] <gsnedders> 179KB!? This is going to take ages to download!
  165. # [15:04] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: look around and see if somebody's got an HSDPA modem, and if they do, beat them up and steal it
  166. # [15:04] <MikeSmith> that's what Rob Tyner would have done
  167. # [15:04] <MikeSmith> your philosophy should be to always ask yourself, in any situation you're in, What Would Rob Tyner Do?
  168. # [15:04] <MikeSmith> and do that
  169. # [15:05] <MikeSmith> WWRTD
  170. # [15:05] <gsnedders> I think I'm giving up on this wifi
  171. # [15:05] * gsnedders loks around
  172. # [15:05] * gsnedders doesn't see
  173. # [15:06] <gsnedders> yay!
  174. # [15:08] <karl> :)
  175. # [15:09] * Quits: gsnedders (gsnedders@217.28.34.132) (Ping timeout)
  176. # [15:11] <karl> reading bruce lawson column in ZDnet http://resources.zdnet.co.uk/articles/comment/0,1000002985,39574452,00.htm?r=4
  177. # [15:11] <pimpbot> Title: Will 2008 prove the year the web grew up? - at ZDNet.co.uk (at resources.zdnet.co.uk)
  178. # [15:16] <MikeSmith> karl: that's a nice article
  179. # [15:16] <MikeSmith> "After three years of guerrilla spec development outside the W3C by the Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group (WhatWG), led by Apple, Mozilla and Opera, the W3C reversed its previous decision to freeze HTML at 2002's HTML 4.01."
  180. # [15:21] <Philip> "All the non-Microsoft browser manufacturers also acknowledge this trend, and are working on ever-faster JavaScript engines to render the Ajax-powered web." - but Microsoft is working on improving its JS engine performance too
  181. # [15:22] <Philip> (Not to the same extent as other browsers, but it's still something they've explicitly said they've worked on for IE8, as far as I remember)
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  184. # [15:59] <karl> hmmm weird brain, reading the title of "when I grew up", I have the last hit of Pussycat dolls in my head
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  200. # [18:33] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/2007doc/byalpha.html
  201. # [18:33] <pimpbot> Title: Characters Ordered by Entity Name (at www.w3.org)
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  209. # [19:20] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/markup-spec/#named-charref
  210. # [19:20] <pimpbot> Title: HTML: The Markup Language (at www.w3.org)
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  212. # [20:01] <karl> MikeSmith: did you see that Nokia was leaving Japan
  213. # [20:01] <karl> http://eurotechnology.com/blog/2008/12/nokia-quits-japan-for-now_10.html
  214. # [20:01] <pimpbot> Title: eurotechnology.japan.blog: NOKIA quits Japan - for now... (at eurotechnology.com)
  215. # [20:01] * Joins: aroben (adamroben@17.244.16.238)
  216. # [20:05] <pimpbot> planet: This Week in HTML 5 - Episode 15 <http://blog.whatwg.org/this-week-in-html-5-episode-15>
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  220. # [20:13] <Philip> hsivonen: If it's "a really bad idea to mint IRI-looking rel keywords that contain letters A-Z", wouldn't it make sense to require (for document conformance) that if a keyword contains a colon then it must not use A-Z?
  221. # [20:14] <hsivonen> Philip: sure
  222. # [20:14] <hsivonen> Philip: also, it's a bad idea to mint non-ASCII values considering the Link HTTP header
  223. # [20:17] <karl> hmmm interesting section http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/#conformance-checkers-0
  224. # [20:17] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)
  225. # [20:19] <karl> There is an issue with this one: "the token's public identifier is the case-sensitive string "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" and the token's system identifier is either missing or the case-sensitive string "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd"."
  226. # [20:20] <karl> It is not necessary a doctype mistake but a mime type mistake, aka the user really wants to use XHTML 1.1 but has forgotten to set the proper mime type
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  228. # [20:23] <karl> Maybe a warning saying "if you really want to use XHTML 1.1, fix your mime type. If you want to send with text/html, change your doctype to <!DOCTYPE html>
  229. # [20:23] <karl> Maybe a warning saying "if you really want to use XHTML 1.1, fix your mime type to application/xhtml+xml. If you want to send with text/html, change your doctype to <!DOCTYPE html>
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The end :)