/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2008-12-16 / end

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  8. # [01:21] <MikeSmith> rubys: would be good to have you on the telcon this week if you can
  9. # [01:22] * MikeSmith wonders if hsivonen might be traveling
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  17. # [02:27] <rubys> MikeSmith: when is the next telecon?
  18. # [02:31] <MikeSmith> rubys: Thursday at 2am JST
  19. # [02:31] <MikeSmith> I think that'st 12noon EST
  20. # [02:32] <MikeSmith> http://xrl.us/time1600Z
  21. # [02:32] <pimpbot> Title: The Fixed Time World Clock (at xrl.us)
  22. # [02:33] <Philip> 12noon EST on Wednesday?
  23. # [02:34] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_2715
  24. # [02:34] <rubys> are you sure that's right? That URI is for Fri 1:00 am in tokyo
  25. # [02:34] <MikeSmith> rubys: yeah, info at that URI is messed up, I see
  26. # [02:34] <MikeSmith> this one is correct:
  27. # [02:35] <MikeSmith> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=12&day=18&year=2008&hour=17&min=00&sec=0&p1=0
  28. # [02:35] <pimpbot> Title: The Fixed Time World Clock (at www.timeanddate.com)
  29. # [02:35] <MikeSmith> Philip: thursday
  30. # [02:35] <MikeSmith> so I should have say "Fridary at 2am JST"
  31. # [02:35] <Philip> MikeSmith: Ah
  32. # [02:35] <MikeSmith> except without the r
  33. # [02:36] <MikeSmith> extra r
  34. # [02:36] <Philip> Fidary?
  35. # [02:36] <MikeSmith> heh
  36. # [02:36] <rubys> ah. Cool. I have a partial conflict for Wednesday, but not for Thursday.
  37. # [02:37] <MikeSmith> I can't remember if Chris Wilson will be back yet
  38. # [02:37] <MikeSmith> he and I usually take turns chairing the call each week
  39. # [02:38] <rubys> I am looking forward to hsivonen's return too
  40. # [02:38] <MikeSmith> hsivonen was in Mountain View last week
  41. # [02:38] <MikeSmith> he may still be there
  42. # [02:39] <MikeSmith> I guess you know he's been spending some more time with others at Mozilla looking at their parsing code
  43. # [02:39] <Hixie> rubys: if you're around, someone was asking a question about your blog entry in #whatwg earlier
  44. # [02:40] <rubys> I'm hoping to collaborate with him on his parser
  45. # [02:40] <rubys> hixie: ok, I'll check
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  92. # [13:58] <marcos> Question: in the widget spec, would it be a bad thing to use an id attribute on a <widget> element? The widget id is a URI. It is used as a kind of name for the widget, which allows it to be identified in different contexts (e.g., during automatic updating). It is not, however used for CSS or anything like that. Would this cause conflicts with xml:id ?
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  95. # [14:04] <Philip> marcos: I think it should technically work, since only attributes explicitly indicated to be an ID (via DTD or, uh, other stuff?) are treated as an ID, but it would conflict with people (like hsivonen, I think) who want to rename 'xml:id' to 'id', and it would be confusing to anyone who thinks they know what the 'id' attribute means from any other XML language
  96. # [14:05] <Philip> Is there any reason you need to call it 'id', and not something different (like 'uid' or 'uri' or 'name' or whatever)?
  97. # [14:07] <Dashiva> Isn't that wid?
  98. # [14:07] <Dashiva> Maybe he changed it already
  99. # [14:09] <Philip> Don't ask me, I know precisely nothing about widgets :-p
  100. # [14:09] <Philip> (so I'm quite possibly misunderstanding the question)
  101. # [14:10] <Dashiva> No, I mean, looking at the latest draft the attribute is named wid
  102. # [14:10] <Philip> (I installed about two Opera widgets a couple of years ago, and then I realised they were entirely pointless, so that was the end of my interest in widgets :-) )
  103. # [14:11] <jgraham> It is not entirely impossible (though unlikely) that he meant an attribute named wid of type ID
  104. # [14:13] <MikeSmith> I think he done changed it already to "identifier"
  105. # [14:13] <Philip> I suppose it's also possible that he meant it in terms of id attribute, ego attribute and super-ego attribute
  106. # [14:14] <Dashiva> Next you're going to say you stopped using widgets because they remind you of your mother
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  108. # [14:17] <MikeSmith> Philip: maybe we can start a working group to create a markup vocabulary for describing people involved in the Web standards community
  109. # [14:19] <Dashiva> The JSON variation proliferation continues
  110. # [14:20] <MikeSmith> Dashiva: where?
  111. # [14:20] <Dashiva> r2533
  112. # [14:21] <MikeSmith> ah
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  114. # [14:23] <Dashiva> I think I'd prefer an exception on sending host objects instead of setting null. Seems like gratuitous incompatability for a rare case.
  115. # [14:26] <Julian> could somebody summarize why we're deviating from the JSON spec?
  116. # [14:26] <gsnedders> hiho, hiho, it's off to school we go!
  117. # [14:27] <Dashiva> Julian: "I didn't stringify host objects, I just converted them to null. This avoids things like people putting DOMStorage objects in there and seeing megabytes of data getting copied unintentionally."
  118. # [14:29] <Julian> I see.
  119. # [14:29] <Dashiva> Don't know about the other differences
  120. # [14:29] <Julian> So it's still a valid JSON wire format then...
  121. # [14:30] <Philip> It's not serialising to a string at all
  122. # [14:31] <Philip> It's just a way of cloning data structures, which is sort of comparable to doing JSON.parse(JSON.serialise(obj))
  123. # [14:33] <Dashiva> I can't wait for the JSON.serialise vs JSON.serialize thing. Or has that already taken place?
  124. # [14:33] <Philip> Is it actually called seriali[zs]e?
  125. # [14:33] <Philip> (I was just guessing)
  126. # [14:34] <Philip> If it is, it's easy to resolve, since web standards are en-US
  127. # [14:34] <Dashiva> Each implementation seems to have its own names
  128. # [14:34] <Dashiva> dumps, stringify, serialize, encode, write...
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  133. # [14:40] <Philip> Hixie: s/arguemnt/argument/
  134. # [14:43] <Philip> x=1; for (i=0; i<100; ++i) x=[x,x]; structured_clone(x) will be fun
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  136. # [14:47] <Dashiva> That's something
  137. # [14:48] <Dashiva> The clone doesn't preserve non-loop duplicates, does it?
  138. # [14:50] <Philip> It doesn't discard them (since there's no cycle), but it doesn't make them references to the same object either
  139. # [14:50] <Philip> so structured_clone() will cause an exponential expansion of its input
  140. # [14:55] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I'm back in Finland. Again *very* jetlagged. Integrating your patches is on the top of my todo list as I wake up properly.
  141. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: no problem
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  143. # [14:56] <Philip> Hixie: It seems odd how the structured cloning algorithm mixes the concepts of returning a value and returning an exception, particularly since exceptions are values - maybe it should say "throw" rather than "return", in case someone thinks it's meant to insert an exception object into the cloned output and then return it
  144. # [14:57] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: mostly just wanted to talk with schema change for "valid e-mail address list" thing. but no hurry.. I got plenty to do in the mean time
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  147. # [15:11] * marcos passed out and just woke up again :(
  148. # [15:15] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: given that it's comma-separated, two datatypes are needed, right?
  149. # [15:17] <hsivonen> marcos: is there anything besides principles that'd prevent using all-ASCII filenames inside widget packages?
  150. # [15:17] <hsivonen> marcos: the paths aren't exposed to the user anyway, right?
  151. # [15:18] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yeah (about datatype).. you can probably ignore half of what I said before (was just thinking out loud).. but I don't think to element patterns would be the right way to go (if that's what you were suggesting before)
  152. # [15:18] <marcos> hsivonen: right
  153. # [15:19] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: do you mean you'd prefer to use a more complicated attribute pattern inside one .elem instead of having two .elems?
  154. # [15:21] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I was suggesting two element patterns before, but indeed it probably isn't the right way
  155. # [15:22] <marcos> hsivonen: a widget user agent checks must check that file names are "valid zip-relative-paths" (meaning that they don't include control chars, or characters outside the ASCII range, etc.). A path can be UTF8 iff the appropriate bit flag is set in the zip file.
  156. # [15:22] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yeah, I think no do two .elem patterns would be better for a number of reasons -- one of them being that there's no other precedent in the schema yet for further sub-classing (for lack of a better work) element patterns that are already sub-typed (that is, but @type value)
  157. # [15:23] <marcos> s/ checks must check/must check
  158. # [15:23] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I have trouble parsing "no do two"
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  160. # [15:23] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: did you mean "do not think two"?
  161. # [15:23] * marcos makes up a new riddle about how many checks should a check check check if a check is done by a UA
  162. # [15:24] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: me too :) not sure what words I meant there.. probably: "I think not doing two .elem patterns..."
  163. # [15:24] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: anyway, I can take a shot at a proposed schema change for it type=email and just send you the patch (so we have concrete to talk about)
  164. # [15:24] <MikeSmith> if you want
  165. # [15:25] <hsivonen> marcos: is this a problem if you a) don't unarchive the .zip and b) use URIs instead of IRIs to address into the package
  166. # [15:25] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: ok. great
  167. # [15:25] <MikeSmith> OK, will have it later today/tomorrow
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  169. # [15:25] <marcos> hsivonen: that's absolutely fine. I have text that states as such in the spec.
  170. # [15:26] <hsivonen> marcos: I see
  171. # [15:26] <MikeSmith> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22878
  172. # [15:26] <pimpbot> Bug 22878: was not found.
  173. # [15:26] <MikeSmith> phe
  174. # [15:27] <MikeSmith> .."This is similar to JSON, but not quite the same."
  175. # [15:27] <Dashiva> Equal, but separate
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  208. # [20:48] <Hixie> Philip: thanks, fixed
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  219. # [23:05] <Hixie> DanC: thanks, that makes sense
  220. # [23:05] <DanC> good
  221. # [23:05] <DanC> and you're welcome
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The end :)