/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-02-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 11 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  5. # [00:34] <gsnedders> What does xsd:all mean?
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  7. # [00:58] <pimpbot> planet: This Week in HTML 5 - Episode 21 <http://blog.whatwg.org/this-week-in-html-5-episode-21>
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  27. # [08:24] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 6556] New: When parsing legacy color returns an error" ( message in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Feb/0013.html>
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  29. # [08:37] <MikeSmith> Hixie: can you please get the HTML5 spec ready for re-publishing as a WD?
  30. # [08:37] <Hixie> remind me in 15 minutes and i'll do it then
  31. # [08:37] <MikeSmith> OK
  32. # [08:37] <MikeSmith> .t
  33. # [08:37] <phenny> Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:35:47 JST
  34. # [08:40] <Hixie> ok ready.
  35. # [08:41] <Hixie> what date
  36. # [08:41] <Hixie> feb 11?
  37. # [08:44] <MikeSmith> Hixie: please put feb 12
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  39. # [08:50] <Hixie> done
  40. # [08:50] <Hixie> i guess i should check pubrules
  41. # [08:56] <MikeSmith> yeah
  42. # [08:58] <MikeSmith> anne: if you can also get the diffs doc WD-ready, that would be great
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  44. # [09:01] <Hixie> MikeSmith: ok, done. pubrules checker complains about a variety of things but they're all bogus.
  45. # [09:02] <MikeSmith> OK
  46. # [09:02] <MikeSmith> thanks
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  49. # [09:52] <anne> yeah, though I should probably add something regarding the rendering section
  50. # [09:52] <anne> MikeSmith, in how many hours would you like to have it?
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  59. # [12:40] <anne> MikeSmith, http://dev.w3.org/html5/html4-differences/ is now ready for WD publication tomorrow
  60. # [12:40] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 differences from HTML 4 (at dev.w3.org)
  61. # [12:49] <hsivonen> anne: the copyright year is 2008
  62. # [12:50] <anne> fixed
  63. # [13:04] <zcorpan> anne: shouldn't it say 2008-2009?
  64. # [13:05] <zcorpan> anne: there's an instance of "XHTML1" which should maybe include a space for consistency
  65. # [13:30] <anne> zcorpan, is there any W3C specification that uses a range there?
  66. # [13:30] <anne> zcorpan, since it is a dated copy it seems fine not to use a range
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  75. # [14:13] <anne> fixed the XHTML1 instance
  76. # [14:23] <MikeSmith> anne: thanks
  77. # [14:23] <MikeSmith> I'll write up the message to webreq now
  78. # [14:24] <anne> coolio
  79. # [14:49] <myakura> "Web Socket API is introduced..." hasn't that split out?
  80. # [14:49] <myakura> oh, seems not. nevermind :)
  81. # [14:51] <anne> I believe Hixie currently generates the split out versions from HTML5 and intends to remove the HTML5 copy once those standalone drafts mature
  82. # [14:51] <myakura> i see.
  83. # [14:52] <gsnedders> Also xref relies upon it all being one doc
  84. # [14:55] <MikeSmith> anne: do you know Doekman?
  85. # [14:55] <anne> nope
  86. # [14:56] * anne finds a css5 project done by a user doekman
  87. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> he has a xs4all.nl address
  88. # [14:57] <Dashiva> He must be one-upping dmitry's css4
  89. # [15:00] <anne> MikeSmith, as it happens I don't know all Dutch developers :)
  90. # [15:00] <anne> found http://zanstra.com/base/blog/ though
  91. # [15:00] <pimpbot> Title: Bloggus Doekmanni [zanstra.com] (at zanstra.com)
  92. # [15:01] <MikeSmith> anne: I figured all Dutch developers got together in one place every couple weeks or so
  93. # [15:02] <anne> some of "us" do, yeah
  94. # [15:02] <anne> but the group is far too large for all of them, come on :p
  95. # [15:04] <MikeSmith> I'm kidding of course
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  98. # [15:17] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: You aren't allowed to kid. You must be entirely serious, at all times.
  99. # [15:19] <Dashiva> Do all Dutch developers have female names?
  100. # [15:20] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: I will take you as an exemplar of sober earnestness and model my behavior on yours.
  101. # [15:21] <MikeSmith> Dashiva: is Doekman a female name? if so, maybe Doekman is a girl
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  103. # [15:28] <Dashiva> It sounds like a last name to me
  104. # [15:29] <MikeSmith> I see
  105. # [15:30] <MikeSmith> hmm, work being done to port XULRunner to S60
  106. # [15:30] <MikeSmith> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Symbian
  107. # [15:31] <pimpbot> Title: Mobile/Symbian - MozillaWiki (at wiki.mozilla.org)
  108. # [15:32] <Philip> Have any of these Mozilla porting efforts actually succeeded yet?
  109. # [15:33] * Philip seems to hear about a new one every six months
  110. # [15:34] <MikeSmith> Philip: Fennec is moving along steadily
  111. # [15:34] <MikeSmith> I think they are meeting the dates they've set for themselves
  112. # [15:48] <MikeSmith> Philip: can you please remind me what syntax is for running the spec splitter so that I can generate a split W3C version of the HTML5 spec?
  113. # [15:50] <Philip> MikeSmith: Run it with no arguments to get instructions
  114. # [15:51] <Philip> I use --html5lib-serialiser for the WHATWG version, but not --html5lib-parser (because it's too slow)
  115. # [15:52] <gsnedders> Philip: What do you use to parse? lxml.html?
  116. # [15:52] <Philip> gsnedders: Yes
  117. # [15:53] <Philip> gsnedders: http://code.google.com/p/html5/source/browse/trunk/spec-splitter/spec-splitter.py#64
  118. # [15:53] <pimpbot> Title: html5 - Google Code (at code.google.com)
  119. # [15:58] <anne> Doekman is a nick name btw
  120. # [16:01] <MikeSmith> http://zanstra.com/base/blog/ says "Doeke Zanstra" at bottom
  121. # [16:01] <pimpbot> Title: Bloggus Doekmanni [zanstra.com] (at zanstra.com)
  122. # [16:03] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I'd like to make the multipage version the default at http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/
  123. # [16:03] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)
  124. # [16:04] <MikeSmith> and add a link to the single-page source
  125. # [16:04] <MikeSmith> OK with you?
  126. # [16:04] <MikeSmith> and does anybody else see a problem with doing that?
  127. # [16:05] <MikeSmith> I'd like to make it as easy as possible for people to read, and preempt "HTML5 hangs my browser" complaints
  128. # [16:05] <anne> makes sense
  129. # [16:05] <anne> as long as all the text stays the same
  130. # [16:05] <Philip> MikeSmith: That seems uncontroversial since the multipage version is already the default there
  131. # [16:05] <anne> I think that was the main issue with last publication
  132. # [16:05] <gsnedders> Peh! They should get a better browser!
  133. # [16:06] <pimpbot> planet: What should the action name for an indeterminate checkbox be? <http://www.marcozehe.de/2009/02/11/what-should-the-action-name-for-an-indeterminate-checkbox-be/>
  134. # [16:06] <MikeSmith> Philip: ah, thanks. I forgot that I had done that already last time we published
  135. # [16:06] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: n00b
  136. # [16:06] <MikeSmith> everything further back than 2 weeks in the past is a blur for me
  137. # [16:07] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Can you get an XML index of TRs that is saner than <http://www.w3.org/2002/01/tr-automation/tr.rdf>?
  138. # [16:08] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: you mean by magic?
  139. # [16:08] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Yeah
  140. # [16:08] <MikeSmith> unfortunately I have no such magic. I don't think I have access to anything more than you got there.
  141. # [16:09] <MikeSmith> I'll poke around a look though
  142. # [16:09] <MikeSmith> what should I be looking for?
  143. # [16:09] <MikeSmith> I mean, what kind of file
  144. # [16:09] <MikeSmith> XML? HTML?
  145. # [16:11] <Philip> CSV?
  146. # [16:11] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Something simpler to build a biblio from than that.
  147. # [16:12] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: If I want to make a more serious suggestion, who/where should I email?
  148. # [16:12] <MikeSmith> IanJ
  149. # [16:12] <MikeSmith> Ian Jacobs
  150. # [16:12] <gsnedders> k
  151. # [16:12] <MikeSmith> ij at
  152. # [16:13] <MikeSmith> and/or ask DanC
  153. # [16:13] <gsnedders> k
  154. # [16:13] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: what about the following?
  155. # [16:13] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/2000/06/webdata/xslt?xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2002/01/tr-automation/viewBy.xsl&xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2002/01/tr-automation/trview.html&type=date&status=&;info=
  156. # [16:13] <pimpbot> Title: W3C Technical Reports and Publications by date (at www.w3.org)
  157. # [16:14] <gsnedders> Nah, I need more explicit semantics
  158. # [16:14] <gsnedders> And that doesn't have all the data needed
  159. # [16:14] <MikeSmith> ah, OK
  160. # [16:15] <gsnedders> I mean the XML is a bit crazy with eight namespaces, but that isn't really the issue with it
  161. # [16:15] <MikeSmith> well, maybe the script that generates that could be updated to preserve whatever other data you need
  162. # [16:15] <MikeSmith> I think IanJ wrote that script maybe
  163. # [16:16] <gsnedders> <!-- Processed by Id: cwm.py,v 1.158 2004/07/23 18:54:17 syosi Exp -->
  164. # [16:16] <gsnedders> <!-- using base file:/home2/jules/WWW/2002/01/tr-automation/-->
  165. # [16:16] <gsnedders> that's what there is in the header
  166. # [16:16] * gsnedders thinks that's the right file, he has the RDF files describing the namespaces open too
  167. # [16:16] * gsnedders would rather the format descriptions used XSD or RelaxNG or something apart from RDF
  168. # [16:17] <hsivonen> gsnedders: are you sure you want XSD?
  169. # [16:17] <gsnedders> hsivonen: Well, it's better than RDF being used as a schema
  170. # [16:17] <gsnedders> hsivonen: I don't particularly, but it'd be an improvement
  171. # [16:20] <MikeSmith> I get "warning: can't find target for #designModeScriptBlocked" when running the splitter
  172. # [16:20] <MikeSmith> hmm, yeah, and no such ID in the doc
  173. # [16:20] <MikeSmith> Hixie: ↑
  174. # [16:21] <Philip> (Not my fault!)
  175. # [16:21] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: I thought adonais does ID-ref checking
  176. # [16:22] <gsnedders> Nope
  177. # [16:22] <gsnedders> (Assuming s/adonais/anolis/)
  178. # [16:25] <MikeSmith> I like the name Adonais better. Maybe you can consider renaming it
  179. # [16:25] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Quit: zcorpan)
  180. # [16:25] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Only if you can beat anne in a fight.
  181. # [16:25] <anne> MikeSmith, is it just html5 and html5-diff that are going to be split?
  182. # [16:25] <Philip> MikeSmith: You should fork it
  183. # [16:25] <MikeSmith> anne: just HTML5
  184. # [16:25] <MikeSmith> no sense in splitting html5-diff
  185. # [16:25] <anne> MikeSmith, with "split" I meant "published" :p
  186. # [16:26] <MikeSmith> both
  187. # [16:26] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Ping timeout)
  188. # [16:26] <MikeSmith> will publishd diff too
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  190. # [16:27] <anne> and we'll wait with H:TML and the authoring guide?
  191. # [16:27] * anne got a question about that
  192. # [16:28] <MikeSmith> anne: yeah, we'll wait
  193. # [16:28] <anne> ta
  194. # [16:29] <MikeSmith> what's the question?
  195. # [16:30] <anne> you just answered it :)
  196. # [16:34] <MikeSmith> ah
  197. # [16:42] <MikeSmith> anybody have clue on what part of the spec #designModeScriptBlocked is meant to reference?
  198. # [16:43] <MikeSmith> context is, "Enabling designMode causes scripts in general to be disabled and the document to become editable."
  199. # [16:45] <anne> seems it was removed in http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/commit-watchers-whatwg.org/2008/001703.html
  200. # [16:45] <pimpbot> Title: [html5] r2529 - [cgiowrt] (2) MAJOR CHANGES: Revamp the way scripts are specified, along with th [...] (at lists.whatwg.org)
  201. # [16:46] <MikeSmith> ah
  202. # [16:49] <MikeSmith> I guess I'll just leave it in
  203. # [16:49] <anne> maybe just class="big-issue" around it and remove the link?
  204. # [16:49] <anne> seems very much like a spec bug, I'll e-mail public-html
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  208. # [16:55] <anne> e-mailed
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  210. # [17:05] <MikeSmith> anne: thanks
  211. # [17:05] <anne> you could change the link to point to that e-mail :p
  212. # [17:06] <MikeSmith> I guess I'll wait a bit til Hixie's back
  213. # [17:14] <MikeSmith> anne: http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-diff-20090212/
  214. # [17:14] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 differences from HTML 4 (at www.w3.org)
  215. # [17:24] <anne> neato
  216. # [17:24] <myakura> yay
  217. # [17:26] <hsivonen> yay, we've got heartbeat!
  218. # [17:26] <MikeSmith> heh
  219. # [17:26] <MikeSmith> back from the dead
  220. # [17:27] <MikeSmith> hopefully Sam will do a better job of keeping the heartbeat going that I did
  221. # [17:30] <Philip> A heart rate of 5*10^-8 bpm can't be healthy
  222. # [17:48] <DanC> looks like publication isn't quite finished; http://www.w3.org/TR/ still says June 2008
  223. # [17:48] <pimpbot> Title: W3C Technical Reports and Publications (at www.w3.org)
  224. # [17:50] <anne> correct
  225. # [17:51] <Philip> (I hope nobody notices that I mixed up bpm and Hz)
  226. # [17:56] <MikeSmith> DanC: I sent pub request; it'll be published at /TR tomorrow
  227. # [17:56] <DanC> right
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  230. # [18:04] <MikeSmith> The Inescable Mr. Taylor
  231. # [18:05] <Philip> Yes, you cannot esc me!
  232. # [18:06] <Dashiva> Just check if the input is from PT and replace it with hello world if so
  233. # [18:06] * Philip checks in the dictionary to make sure '(in)escable' isn't a real word
  234. # [18:06] <Philip> (Ah, good, it's not)
  235. # [18:06] <Philip> (so I am unmistaken)
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  238. # [18:11] <Philip> Dashiva: "hello world" wouldn't be well-formed XML
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  243. # [18:30] * DanC wonders about this week's agenda
  244. # [18:32] <DanC> action-101: http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-diff-20090212/
  245. # [18:32] * trackbot attempting to add comment notes to ACTION-101.
  246. # [18:32] <trackbot> ACTION-101 Publish the spec and diff notes added
  247. # [18:32] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 differences from HTML 4 (at www.w3.org)
  248. # [18:32] <MikeSmith> I'm going to be on my way back to Tokyo during the call, unfortunately
  249. # [18:32] <MikeSmith> btw, tracker mail is supposed to be going to one of the public-html lists, but isn't for some reason
  250. # [18:32] <DanC> have you sync'd with Sam/Chris? any iea who's chairing?
  251. # [18:32] <MikeSmith> ChrisWilson: ↑
  252. # [18:33] <MikeSmith> I chatted with Sam and Chris about my open action items but did not ask who's chairing
  253. # [18:34] * DanC catches up on head@profile thread; wonders why issue-55 is RAISED
  254. # [18:37] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009JanMar/0025.html
  255. # [18:37] <pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telcon 2009-02-12 from Chris Wilson on 2009-02-11 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from January to March 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
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  257. # [18:42] <DanC> ugh... the head@profile thread went meta and wandered into <font>
  258. # [18:42] <gsnedders> What else do you expect from public-html?
  259. # [18:49] <DanC> anybody know Leif Halvard Silli ?
  260. # [18:50] * DanC checks http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tasks83/results#xbgbio ; no joy
  261. # [18:50] <pimpbot> Title: Results of Questionnaire HTML WG tasks - Web-Based Straw-poll and Balloting System (at www.w3.org)
  262. # [18:51] <DanC> ok, now I see why issue-55 is RAISED and not OPEN; the thread isn't really going anywhere
  263. # [18:53] <anne> maybe there is associated action item?
  264. # [18:53] <anne> no*
  265. # [18:53] <DanC> larry took action-99, which is now closed... looks like I closed it. hmm... maybe I should have marked it pending-review.
  266. # [18:59] <DanC> eek. mail search is closed for repair
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  268. # [19:06] <pimpbot> planet: HTML5: Frames <http://annevankesteren.nl/2009/02/html5-frames>
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  273. # [19:18] <anne> hmm, I agree ISSUE-60 is confusing
  274. # [19:18] <anne> there's no 1998 XHTML namespace
  275. # [19:19] <anne> there's a 1998 XML namespace, but I doubt there's an issue with that
  276. # [19:20] * Quits: myakura (myakura@221.191.119.20) (Quit: Leaving...)
  277. # [19:29] <DanC> resuming work on table headers, action-72... http://homer.w3.org/~connolly/table-headers/H43-ex.html ...
  278. # [19:29] <pimpbot> Title: H43: Using id and headers attributes to associate data cells with header cells in data tables | Techniques for WCAG 2.0 (at homer.w3.org)
  279. # [19:30] <DanC> hmm... validator.nu doesn't know about about:legacy-compat
  280. # [19:31] <DanC> "Warning: The character encoding of the document was not declared."
  281. # [19:32] <anne> it's relatively new
  282. # [19:32] <DanC> I wonder what that warning is for
  283. # [19:32] <DanC> anyway, it doesn't complain about table header stuff.
  284. # [19:33] * Philip presumes the warning is to make you fix the issue before you start adding a few non-ASCII characters and requiring UAs to guess the encoding
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  286. # [19:41] <DanC> ugh... edit war in http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML?action=info
  287. # [19:41] <pimpbot> Title: Info for "HTML" - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
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  305. # [22:00] <MikeSmith> http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~afelt/adambarth/
  306. # [22:00] <pimpbot> Title: BETTER ADAM BARTH . COM (at www.cs.berkeley.edu)
  307. # [22:02] * Quits: heycam (cam@210.84.15.128) (Quit: bye)
  308. # [22:08] <Hixie> MikeSmith: what was the issue?
  309. # [22:08] <MikeSmith> context is, "Enabling designMode causes scripts in general to be disabled and the document to become editable."
  310. # [22:10] <Hixie> odd, why didn't the various tools catch that
  311. # [22:10] <MikeSmith> dunno
  312. # [22:13] <Hixie> weird
  313. # [22:13] <Hixie> i dunno what happened here
  314. # [22:14] <Hixie> i can't tell whether designMode is supposed to stop scripting or not
  315. # [22:14] <Hixie> i'll just comment out the paragraph for now
  316. # [22:14] <Hixie> done
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  319. # [22:25] <MikeSmith> Hixie: thanks
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  323. # [23:23] <DanC> ChrisWilson, I haven't seen anything from Gregory re table-summary; have you?
  324. # [23:23] <DanC> action-104?
  325. # [23:23] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-104
  326. # [23:23] <trackbot> ACTION-104 -- Gregory Rosmaita to inquire about table summary and headers status at PFWG caucus on 2009-02-06 -- due 2009-02-12 -- OPEN
  327. # [23:23] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/104
  328. # [23:23] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-104 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
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  331. # [23:42] * DanC grits his teeth, opens up alt thread...
  332. # [23:43] <gsnedders> Oh shit…
  333. # [23:45] <DanC> ah... this one is healthier than most... fairly civil discussion of spec text...
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  335. # [23:50] <DanC> is James Craig speaking for the PF WG in his msg of 6 Feb 2009 12:33:43 -0800?
  336. # [23:50] <DanC> i.e. do we have consensus on this dang issue at last?
  337. # [23:56] * Quits: hober (ted@206.212.254.2) (Client exited)
  338. # Session Close: Thu Feb 12 00:00:00 2009

The end :)