/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-02-19 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Feb 19 00:00:01 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [00:06] * Parts: billmason (bmason@69.30.57.102)
  4. # [00:06] * Quits: adele (adele@17.244.16.159) (Quit: adele)
  5. # [00:19] * Quits: smedero (smedero@192.223.6.251) (Quit: smedero)
  6. # [00:23] * Quits: aroben (aroben@69.142.95.189) (Quit: aroben)
  7. # [00:24] * Quits: tH (Rob@129.11.83.14) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.1/2008072406])
  8. # [00:32] * Joins: adele (adele@17.244.17.135)
  9. # [00:34] * Joins: Sander_ (svl@86.87.68.167)
  10. # [00:34] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Ping timeout)
  11. # [00:34] * Sander_ is now known as Sander
  12. # [00:40] * Quits: syp (syp@83.219.105.167) (Ping timeout)
  13. # [00:57] * Quits: adele (adele@17.244.17.135) (Quit: adele)
  14. # [01:05] * Joins: Sander_ (svl@86.87.68.167)
  15. # [01:06] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Ping timeout)
  16. # [01:06] * Sander_ is now known as Sander
  17. # [01:13] * Joins: adele (adele@17.244.17.135)
  18. # [01:17] * Quits: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.74) (Ping timeout)
  19. # [01:23] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  20. # [02:56] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  21. # [03:03] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  22. # [03:26] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  23. # [03:29] * Joins: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@68.50.195.181)
  24. # [03:39] * DanC picks up trying to build H:TML ...
  25. # [03:42] <DanC> grabbed http://jing-trang.googlecode.com/files/trang-20081028.zip
  26. # [03:42] <DanC> markup-spec$ make clean; PYTHONPATH=~/projects/html5lib/python/src make TRANG="java -jar ~/src/trang-20081028/trang.jar"
  27. # [03:43] <DanC> that gets me past the trang hurdle... next:
  28. # [03:43] <DanC> cp: cannot stat `/opt/sandbox/dev.w3.org/buildtools/rng/combine/combine.xsl': No such file or directory
  29. # [03:44] <gsnedders> I think MikeSmith came up with some far too complex build-system
  30. # [03:45] * Joins: rubys (rubys@75.182.92.38)
  31. # [03:46] <MikeSmith> gsneddeers: only as complex as it needs to be
  32. # [03:46] <MikeSmith> DanC: I will fix that now
  33. # [03:47] <DanC> this is a cake-walk compared to lots of builds I've worked with
  34. # [03:47] * Quits: adele (adele@17.244.17.135) (Quit: adele)
  35. # [03:47] <DanC> given that only 0.0000000000001 % of the world's population needs to learn how to operate it, I don't see anything horribly wrong with it so far
  36. # [03:48] * Philip wonders where the phrase "cake-walk" comes from
  37. # [03:48] <Philip> I can't imagine that walking on cakes is very easy
  38. # [03:49] <gsnedders> DanC: Hmm, that's a lot less than one person, assuming you were referring to the world's human population
  39. # [03:50] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.)
  40. # [03:50] <DanC> ok, so I didn't get out my calculator. sue me. ;-)
  41. # [03:50] <gsnedders> :)
  42. # [03:50] * gsnedders is just bored
  43. # [03:50] <Dashiva> Philip: Yahoo answers says it's a raffle kind of thing
  44. # [03:51] <gsnedders> When I have physics experiments as part of my project giving me greater than 100% uncertainties, I tend to rather give up and procrastinate.
  45. # [03:52] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  46. # [03:52] <DanC> speaking of procrastinate... this talk of hairy build systems reminds me of when I got the guys at dazel to stay the whole weekend and re-write every makefile in the system.
  47. # [03:52] <gsnedders> heh
  48. # [03:52] <Philip> Dashiva: I would tend to take Yahoo Answers answers with enough salt to bury the entire site, and then encase it in concrete
  49. # [03:53] <DanC> when I was job hunting, I thought seriously about taking standard interview questions like "tell us about one of your accomplishments" and making them into blog articles. that was gonna be one of them.
  50. # [03:53] <Dashiva> Philip: It's useful for getting directions. You find their "answer", then you use that as a hypothesis and check with reputable sources to verify
  51. # [03:53] <gsnedders> You know I'm bored when I can't even be bothered playing with my hair anymore.
  52. # [03:54] <DanC> the lyric you quoted... was that from the U2 song?
  53. # [03:54] * DanC checks...
  54. # [03:54] <gsnedders> DanC: With Or Without You, live versions only
  55. # [03:54] <DanC> hmm... I thought it was a different U2 song. go figure.
  56. # [03:54] <gsnedders> DanC: Actually, which of the two I quoted today?
  57. # [03:54] <gsnedders> DanC: The other is Ultraviolet (Light My Way)
  58. # [03:55] <DanC> https://twitter.com/gsnedders/statuses/1224844909
  59. # [03:55] <pimpbot> Title: Twitter / Geoffrey Sneddon: "We'll shine like stars in ... (at twitter.com)
  60. # [03:55] <MikeSmith> DanC: I remember some of the Dazel build stuff
  61. # [03:55] <gsnedders> Yeah, that's With Or Without You
  62. # [03:55] <gsnedders> http://twitter.com/gsnedders/status/1224398417 is the other
  63. # [03:55] <pimpbot> Title: Twitter / Geoffrey Sneddon: Sometimes I feel like I do ... (at twitter.com)
  64. # [03:56] <MikeSmith> DanC: please sync up to latest CVS.. I just checked in a static copy of combine.xsl and changed the makefile to use it
  65. # [03:58] <DanC> ok...
  66. # [03:58] <DanC> Can't locate CSS.pm in @INC
  67. # [03:58] <DanC> $ apt-cache search CSS.pm
  68. # [03:58] <DanC> libcss-tiny-perl - Read/Write .css files with as little code as possible
  69. # [04:00] <DanC> actually... makefiles that fetch stuff from the net do give me the willies a bit
  70. # [04:01] <DanC> still losing
  71. # [04:02] <MikeSmith> losing?
  72. # [04:02] <DanC> Can't locate CSS.pm in @INC
  73. # [04:02] <DanC> ew... opendns says "Hmm, search.cpan.org isn't loading right now."
  74. # [04:04] <MikeSmith> cpan -i CSS
  75. # [04:06] * DanC watches cpan bootstrap...
  76. # [04:06] <MikeSmith> or perl -MCPAN -e "install CSS" maybe
  77. # [04:06] <DanC> mkdir /usr/local/man/man3: Permission denied at /usr/share/perl/5.10/ExtUtils/Install.pm line 479
  78. # [04:06] <DanC> so this is another root install thingy...
  79. # [04:07] <DanC> apt and cpan don't get along so well, last I checked. hmm.
  80. # [04:07] <rubys> apt-get install libcss-tiny-perl
  81. # [04:08] <DanC> tried that (see above); no joy
  82. # [04:08] <rubys> I've never gotten along with cpan
  83. # [04:08] <DanC> software installation is hard.
  84. # [04:09] <rubys> OK, I see where you found CSS.pm, but what happens when you install it?
  85. # [04:10] <DanC> libcss-tiny-perl doesn't actually have CSS.pm
  86. # [04:10] <DanC> `cpan -i CSS` runs aground when trying to write to /usr without root privs
  87. # [04:10] <gsnedders> I need food.
  88. # [04:11] <DanC> (on software installation: http://www.advogato.org/person/connolly/diary/54.html and http://delicious.com/connolly/software+installation )
  89. # [04:11] <pimpbot> Title: Advogato: Blog for connolly (at www.advogato.org)
  90. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> DanC: I think you can have it install it in ~/perl-modules or wherever
  91. # [04:13] <MikeSmith> and then just update you perl library path to include that directory too
  92. # [04:13] <DanC> do you know the magic prayer?
  93. # [04:14] * MikeSmith pokes around in cpan docs
  94. # [04:14] <MikeSmith> DanC: or you could just get root...
  95. # [04:14] <MikeSmith> the Ubuntu non-root thing is kind of silly
  96. # [04:15] <DanC> well, like I say, using root voids my service contract (with myself).
  97. # [04:15] <DanC> the cpan conflict is with apt in general, i.e. debian too, no?
  98. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> I use cpan and apt together fine
  99. # [04:17] <MikeSmith> man perlmodinstall
  100. # [04:17] <MikeSmith> hmm, no
  101. # [04:17] <MikeSmith> that's not helpful
  102. # [04:17] * DanC pops back from browsing http://intertwingly.net/blog/2007/11/11/TCO
  103. # [04:18] <DanC> you run "cpan -i CSS" as root?
  104. # [04:18] <DanC> maybe I'll just do that; but it tends to hork the system, eventually
  105. # [04:20] <DanC> oh... and re setuptools... "This is not success. I have seen success before, it looked nothing like this. This is failure. " -- http://bitworking.org/news/Please_stop_using_setuptools__at_least_exclusively__for_now____
  106. # [04:20] <pimpbot> Title: Joe Gregorio | BitWorking | Please stop using setuptools (at bitworking.org)
  107. # [04:21] <MikeSmith> DanC: try this:
  108. # [04:21] <MikeSmith> cd ~/ && cpan . -i CSS
  109. # [04:22] <MikeSmith> hmm, maybe not
  110. # [04:22] <MikeSmith> man CPAN
  111. # [04:22] <DanC> ERROR: Can't create '/usr/local/man/man3'
  112. # [04:23] <DanC> hmm... cpan only wants to write to /usr/local/ ? I can live with that
  113. # [04:24] <MikeSmith> DanC: please see man CPAN
  114. # [04:24] <MikeSmith> search for "I am not root, how can I install a module in a personal directory?"
  115. # [04:24] <MikeSmith> perl -MCPAN -e 'mkmyconfig'
  116. # [04:24] <MikeSmith> or mkmyconfig
  117. # [04:24] <DanC> search for "root" in the man page fails. odd.
  118. # [04:25] * DanC installed it using `sudo cpan -i CSS`
  119. # [04:26] <MikeSmith> that works too (that's how I installed it)
  120. # [04:26] <DanC> hmm... these don't seem to be fatal, but I'm getting a lot of: elements/tbody.html:27: parser error : Premature end of data in tag div line 1
  121. # [04:27] <DanC> ah... yes, they are fatal
  122. # [04:27] <DanC> this step loses: xsltproc --novalid tools/generate-spec-source.xsl html5full-aria-compiled.rng > html.spec.src.html
  123. # [04:27] <MikeSmith> oops
  124. # [04:28] <MikeSmith> please sync up to latest CVS
  125. # [04:28] <MikeSmith> I had a wf error in the tbody.html file
  126. # [04:28] <DanC> no biscuit for you. ;-)
  127. # [04:29] * DanC updates, runs make again...
  128. # [04:30] <DanC> lost again... -:5: HTML parser error : Unexpected end tag : link
  129. # [04:32] <DanC> hard to capture the problem succinctly; this seems to be the failing step:
  130. # [04:32] <DanC> xsltproc --novalid tools/specgen.xsl html.spec.src.html \
  131. # [04:32] <DanC> | xmllint --html - \
  132. # [04:32] <DanC> | perl -pi -e 's/script></script>\n</' \
  133. # [04:32] <DanC> > Overview.html
  134. # [04:32] * DanC chuckles at the mix of xml tools and perl patch-ups
  135. # [04:33] * gsnedders shakes head
  136. # [04:33] <gsnedders> You could just use an HTML toolchain
  137. # [04:33] <rubys> this is the html5 spec?
  138. # [04:35] <MikeSmith> DanC: those are not fatal errors
  139. # [04:35] <MikeSmith> they are expected
  140. # [04:35] <DanC> this is http://www.w3.org/html/wg/markup-spec/ , rubys
  141. # [04:35] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5: The Markup Language (at www.w3.org)
  142. # [04:35] <rubys> ah
  143. # [04:35] <MikeSmith> because xsltproc output-method=html output is broken
  144. # [04:36] <MikeSmith> it generates end tags for empty elements
  145. # [04:36] <DanC> hmm... why use output method=html? I have never bothered, and I've been happy with the output. Maybe I've never tried to generate <script> nor <link>, but it seems to do the right thing with <br />
  146. # [04:36] <DanC> I always use method="xml" for generating HTML
  147. # [04:37] <rubys> link is void, so shouldn't be a problem
  148. # [04:38] <rubys> for script src I put an XML comment inside the element, which gets eaten by XSLT, leaving just the open and close tags
  149. # [04:38] <DanC> hmm... so maybe I'm winning.
  150. # [04:38] * gsnedders certainly isn't :P
  151. # [04:38] <DanC> odd... <link rel="stylesheet" href="style.css" type="text/css"> ... i.e. all these XML tools in the chain, but the output isn't XML-wf
  152. # [04:38] <MikeSmith> DanC: if you got to those error messages, the build completed successfully
  153. # [04:39] <DanC> ah. of course. why wan't it obvious to me? ;-)
  154. # [04:39] <MikeSmith> they are the last messages emitted by the build if it completes as expected
  155. # [04:39] <MikeSmith> heh
  156. # [04:40] * MikeSmith adds a 2>/dev/null to last part of the build
  157. # [04:40] <DanC> ok... now that our game of hunt-the-build-deps is done...
  158. # [04:40] <DanC> what the heck did the thing just do?
  159. # [04:40] * DanC studies the make output
  160. # [04:40] <gsnedders> DanC: Hopefully it didn't just run `rm -rf /`
  161. # [04:40] <gsnedders> DanC: Apart from that, I dunno what it did.
  162. # [04:42] <DanC> very late binding w.r.t. hsivonen's stuff... svn checkout at build-time
  163. # [04:43] <MikeSmith> yep
  164. # [04:43] <DanC> about which see http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/187
  165. # [04:43] <pimpbot> Title: The Mercurial SCM: great for lots of stuff, but not the holy grail | Decentralized Information Group (DIG) Breadcrumbs (at dig.csail.mit.edu)
  166. # [04:43] <MikeSmith> it does a checkout and then actually applies some patches against it
  167. # [04:45] <gsnedders> Hoping that the patches are still valid, therefore?
  168. # [04:46] <MikeSmith> if the patches fail, then I know that Henri has applied them upstream and so it's time I can remove them
  169. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> or I know Henri's made some other change that invalidates them, and I then need to look at what he's changed
  170. # [04:49] <MikeSmith> http://www.kanai.net/weblog/archive/2009/02/19/12h13m27s
  171. # [04:49] <pimpbot> Title: Japanese websites that don't work in Internet Explorer 8 - Gen Kanai weblog (at www.kanai.net)
  172. # [04:49] * DanC puzzles over the INCELIM stuff
  173. # [04:49] <MikeSmith> DanC: Incelim stuff is David Tolpin's work
  174. # [04:50] <DanC> uh... I'm not familiar with it
  175. # [04:50] <MikeSmith> for flattening RelaxNG schemas
  176. # [04:50] <DanC> ah
  177. # [04:50] <DanC> so INClune ELIMinate
  178. # [04:50] <MikeSmith> yeah
  179. # [04:56] <DanC> ok... maybe I don't really want to know how the sausage is made... suppose I want to make a change/fix...
  180. # [04:57] * Quits: rubys (rubys@75.182.92.38) (Quit: Leaving.)
  181. # [04:57] <MikeSmith> DanC: I don't think you need to worry about it much for now at least
  182. # [04:57] <DanC> "all the attribute descriptions that are currently missing need to be added". which ones are missing?
  183. # [04:57] <MikeSmith> heh
  184. # [04:58] <MikeSmith> the ones that are missing are missing
  185. # [04:59] <DanC> ok... scanning... it looks like a/@href is missing
  186. # [04:59] <DanC> oh... no...
  187. # [04:59] <MikeSmith> if you look through the rendered Overview.html file and find "detailed attribute description to come", those are the ones that are missing
  188. # [04:59] * Quits: rking3 (rking3@99.27.42.97) (Quit: rking3)
  189. # [04:59] <MikeSmith> as far as a@href, all of the shared hyperlink attributes are defined at:
  190. # [05:00] <MikeSmith> file:///opt/sandbox/WWW/html/wg/markup-spec/Overview.html#shared-hyperlink-attrs
  191. # [05:00] <MikeSmith> oops
  192. # [05:00] <DanC> hmm... uri = "" | IRI-reference #
  193. # [05:00] <DanC> that seems abiguous; "" _is_ an IRI-reference
  194. # [05:01] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/markup-spec/#shared-hyperlink-attrs
  195. # [05:01] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5: The Markup Language (at www.w3.org)
  196. # [05:03] <DanC> "XSLT-compat" ... how about I try changing that to "legacy-compat"
  197. # [05:04] <MikeSmith> that would be good
  198. # [05:04] <MikeSmith> isn't it about:legacy-compat ?
  199. # [05:05] * MikeSmith tries to remember what the resolution was on that
  200. # [05:05] <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jan/0640.html
  201. # [05:05] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-54: from Ian Hickson on 2009-01-30 (public-html@w3.org from January 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  202. # [05:05] <DanC> heh... pimpbot, you mangled the title
  203. # [05:06] <MikeSmith> pimpbot strips out markup
  204. # [05:06] <pimpbot> MikeSmith: Huh?
  205. # [05:06] <MikeSmith> I need to fix it
  206. # [05:06] <pimpbot> planet: The Spartan Clarity of SOAP <http://blog.mozilla.com/rob-sayre/2009/02/18/the-spartan-clarity-of-soap/>
  207. # [05:06] <MikeSmith> I also need to change the doctype regexes to something more readable
  208. # [05:07] <MikeSmith> e.g., introduce case-insensitive indicator : /<!doctype\s+html\s*>/i
  209. # [05:08] <MikeSmith> anyway, I have to walk to meeting
  210. # [05:08] <DanC> what's this " must not use a DOCTYPE matching the doctype.legacy pattern unless the document is output from a tool that is incapable of generating a DOCTYPE matching the doctype pattern."?! The same document can be produced from N tools.
  211. # [05:09] <MikeSmith> feel free to make whatever changes there you think are needed
  212. # [05:09] <MikeSmith> I'll be back in about 20 minues
  213. # [05:09] <MikeSmith> minutes
  214. # [05:10] * DanC made just the one small change, committed it
  215. # [05:10] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Ping timeout)
  216. # [05:10] <DanC> bummer... `make` goes over the wire, even for small changes
  217. # [05:12] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  218. # [05:17] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.246) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  219. # [05:33] <MikeSmith> DanC: it shouldn't use the network unless you make a schema change
  220. # [05:35] * Quits: hober (ted@206.212.254.2) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
  221. # [05:37] <pimpbot> planet: Offered Without Comment <http://blog.mozilla.com/rob-sayre/2009/02/18/offered-without-comment/>
  222. # [05:37] * Joins: hober (ted@206.212.254.2)
  223. # [05:39] * gsnedders waits for somebody to laugh at his email
  224. # [05:41] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190)
  225. # [05:44] <DanC> hmm... I wonder what's going on, then, MikeSmith
  226. # [05:44] <DanC> cvs diff shows a diff in schema.rnc
  227. # [05:52] <MikeSmith> DanC: I'm not seeing any changes to schema.rnc
  228. # [05:52] <MikeSmith> what does the diff show?
  229. # [05:52] <DanC> @@ -1,3 +1,4 @@
  230. # [05:52] <DanC> +default namespace = "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
  231. # [05:52] <pimpbot> DanC: Huh?
  232. # [06:00] <MikeSmith> DanC: hmm, that's weird
  233. # [06:02] <MikeSmith> some difference in our environments I guess
  234. # [06:02] <MikeSmith> but anyway, I don't think that will have any adverse effect
  235. # [06:07] <DanC> yeah, some tool difference, I suspect
  236. # [06:38] <karl> I tried a reply http://visitmix.com/Opinions/Web-Standards-Gone-Wild#200902191236187
  237. # [06:38] <pimpbot> Title: Web Standards Gone Wild - Opinions - MIX Online (at visitmix.com)
  238. # [06:41] <DanC> chuckle... "You’re also comparing apples and oranges, though it’s the WHAT-WG’s fault for putting them all in the same bowl."
  239. # [06:44] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11) (Ping timeout)
  240. # [06:49] <karl> :)))
  241. # [06:49] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  242. # [06:50] <karl> in French to say "what a mess" you can say "Quelle salade !" (What a salad)
  243. # [06:51] <karl> fruits salad :)
  244. # [06:52] <karl> which makes me think right away of the old French Song "salade de fruit" by Bourvil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJlhtDnti7A
  245. # [06:52] <pimpbot> Title: YouTube - Bourvil - Salade de fruits (at www.youtube.com)
  246. # [06:53] <karl> song for the next Tech Plenary with Danc a la guitare
  247. # [07:01] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Ping timeout)
  248. # [07:01] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  249. # [07:05] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Quit: bye)
  250. # [07:06] * DanC hunts for chords...
  251. # [07:07] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  252. # [07:08] <MikeSmith> karl: I think a table with multiple tbody children is actually just multiple tables
  253. # [07:09] * DanC plays along, using http://www.francetabs.com/en/guitar-chords-tabs/chords-tabs.php?lid=1893&tab=salade-de-fruits
  254. # [07:09] <pimpbot> Title: Salade de fruits tab - Bourvil guitar tabs on France Tabs (at www.francetabs.com)
  255. # [07:15] <karl> MikeSmith: I was thinking about something like this
  256. # [07:15] <karl> <table>
  257. # [07:15] <karl> <thead>
  258. # [07:15] <karl> <tr><th></th><th></th></tr>
  259. # [07:15] <karl> </thead>
  260. # [07:15] <karl> <tbody>
  261. # [07:15] <karl> <tr><td>c1r1z1</td><td>c2r1z1</td></tr>
  262. # [07:15] <karl> </tbody>
  263. # [07:15] <karl> <tbody>
  264. # [07:15] <karl> <tr><td>c1r1z2</td><td>c2r1z2</td></tr>
  265. # [07:15] <karl> </tbody>
  266. # [07:15] <karl> </table>
  267. # [07:16] <karl> but I have to check how tbody is defined
  268. # [07:17] <karl> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/tabular-data.html#the-tbody-element
  269. # [07:17] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)
  270. # [07:17] <karl> hmm nothing is said about multiple tbody and its meaning
  271. # [07:18] <DanC> well, MikeSmith , I think I'm done for the night
  272. # [07:20] <karl> I should go to bed too 1:18am
  273. # [07:22] <MikeSmith> DanC, karl : talk to you later
  274. # [07:25] <MikeSmith> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2009/02/svg_filter_effe.html
  275. # [07:25] <pimpbot> Title: Well, I'm Back: SVG Filter Effects For Plain Old HTML (at weblogs.mozillazine.org)
  276. # [07:38] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Ping timeout)
  277. # [07:39] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  278. # [07:42] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Ping timeout)
  279. # [07:43] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  280. # [07:51] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11) (Connection reset by peer)
  281. # [07:53] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  282. # [08:09] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
  283. # [08:14] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Ping timeout)
  284. # [08:19] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.)
  285. # [08:20] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  286. # [08:35] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Ping timeout)
  287. # [08:46] * Joins: laplink (link@78.26.2.125)
  288. # [08:52] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  289. # [08:58] * Quits: laplink (link@78.26.2.125) (Ping timeout)
  290. # [09:04] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  291. # [09:06] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Quit: bye)
  292. # [09:11] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30) (Quit: shepazu)
  293. # [09:13] * Quits: jwatt (roslea@61.88.219.66) (Ping timeout)
  294. # [09:24] * Joins: laplink (link@78.26.2.125)
  295. # [09:29] * Joins: tH (Rob@129.11.83.14)
  296. # [09:53] <hsivonen> Re: Debian and Validator.nu: don't use Debian fastjar; use OpenJDK jar
  297. # [09:56] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  298. # [09:59] <hsivonen> so, does data-* have the getAttribute problem in IEs other than the IE8 mode?
  299. # [10:01] <zcorpan> hsivonen: since data- attributes are "unknown", the camelCase problem doesn't appear
  300. # [10:09] <hsivonen> zcorpan: cool
  301. # [10:13] * Quits: laplink (link@78.26.2.125) (Ping timeout)
  302. # [10:17] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11) (Ping timeout)
  303. # [10:22] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  304. # [10:24] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  305. # [10:49] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  306. # [10:52] * Joins: laplink (link@78.26.2.125)
  307. # [10:53] * Quits: laplink (link@78.26.2.125) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  308. # [11:19] * Joins: myakura (myakura@221.191.119.20)
  309. # [11:29] * Quits: gavin (gavin@63.245.208.169) (Client exited)
  310. # [11:29] * Joins: gavin (gavin@63.245.208.169)
  311. # [11:35] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
  312. # [11:43] <pimpbot> planet: Bespin, canvas, SVG, DOM and other thoughts <http://www.glazman.org/weblog/dotclear/index.php?post/2009/02/19/Bespin-canvas-SVG-DOM-and-other-thoughts>
  313. # [11:44] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Connection reset by peer)
  314. # [11:45] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
  315. # [11:45] * Quits: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@68.50.195.181) (Quit: Leaving)
  316. # [11:45] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Connection reset by peer)
  317. # [11:45] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
  318. # [11:47] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Connection reset by peer)
  319. # [11:55] * Joins: heycam (cam@203.171.195.131)
  320. # [11:58] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30)
  321. # [12:11] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  322. # [12:13] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 6590] character encoding mapping needs to be used for form submission too" ( message in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Feb/0027.html>
  323. # [12:14] * Parts: annevk (opera@77.163.243.203)
  324. # [12:14] * Joins: annevk (opera@77.163.243.203)
  325. # [12:16] * Joins: laplink (link@78.26.2.125)
  326. # [12:20] * Quits: heycam (cam@203.171.195.131) (Connection reset by peer)
  327. # [12:21] * Joins: heycam (cam@203.171.192.196)
  328. # [12:28] * Quits: laplink (link@78.26.2.125) (Ping timeout)
  329. # [12:51] * Joins: laplink (link@78.26.5.223)
  330. # [12:55] * Quits: laplink (link@78.26.5.223) (Ping timeout)
  331. # [13:02] * Quits: heycam (cam@203.171.192.196) (Quit: bye)
  332. # [13:09] * Joins: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233)
  333. # [13:21] * Joins: laplink (link@78.26.5.223)
  334. # [13:29] * Joins: jwatt (roslea@122.111.25.253)
  335. # [13:38] * Quits: tH (Rob@129.11.83.14) (Ping timeout)
  336. # [13:46] * Joins: maddiin (mc@87.185.206.229)
  337. # [14:07] * Joins: wonsuk (wslee@61.255.191.112)
  338. # [14:08] * Quits: laplink (link@78.26.5.223) (Ping timeout)
  339. # [14:09] * Joins: laplink (link@78.26.5.223)
  340. # [14:13] * Parts: wonsuk (wslee@61.255.191.112)
  341. # [14:19] * Quits: laplink (link@78.26.5.223) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  342. # [15:00] * Joins: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30)
  343. # [15:19] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Connection reset by peer)
  344. # [15:19] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
  345. # [15:23] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Connection reset by peer)
  346. # [15:24] * Joins: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80)
  347. # [15:31] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11) (Ping timeout)
  348. # [15:36] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  349. # [15:45] * Joins: MichaelC_ (Michael@128.30.52.30)
  350. # [15:45] * Joins: aroben (aroben@69.142.95.189)
  351. # [15:47] * Quits: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  352. # [15:47] * MichaelC_ is now known as MichaelC
  353. # [16:13] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190)
  354. # [16:14] * Joins: syp (syp@83.219.105.167)
  355. # [16:52] * tlr is now known as nrsagent
  356. # [16:52] * nrsagent is now known as tlr
  357. # [16:54] * Joins: billmason (bmason@69.30.57.102)
  358. # [17:11] * Joins: darobin (robinb@82.233.247.234)
  359. # [17:13] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Ping timeout)
  360. # [17:14] * Joins: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233)
  361. # [17:27] * Joins: billyjackass (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  362. # [17:31] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
  363. # [17:32] * Joins: rubys1 (rubys@75.182.92.38)
  364. # [17:32] * rubys1 changes topic to 'HTML WG Weekly teleconference http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009JanMar/0030.html (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ )'
  365. # [17:32] * rubys1 is now known as rubys
  366. # [17:33] * rubys is looking for a scribe...
  367. # [17:33] * Joins: oedipus (oedipus@71.250.74.3)
  368. # [17:34] * billyjackass is now known as MikeSmith
  369. # [17:37] <DanC> rubys, I updated some action item due dates to match when people did them; that causes stuff that was done sooner to appear higher on http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/agenda
  370. # [17:37] <pimpbot> Title: Input for Agenda Planning for the HTML Weekly - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  371. # [17:37] <rubys> excellent
  372. # [17:37] <DanC> if you want to take things in a different order, I can tweak the dates, or we can use Zakim's agenda sorting, or we can just wing it
  373. # [17:38] <rubys> Why isn't the first date in red?
  374. # [17:38] <DanC> cuz it's "pending review" rather than "open"
  375. # [17:38] <DanC> i.e. cuz larry did what he said he'd do (to my satisfaction)
  376. # [17:38] <rubys> ok
  377. # [17:39] <DanC> shall I move 104 on summary down?
  378. # [17:39] <DanC> I'm conflicted: there's been quite a bit of relevant discussion, but not from Chris
  379. # [17:39] <rubys> the order is fine.
  380. # [17:39] <DanC> ok
  381. # [17:40] <rubys> I intend to skip quickly over agenda items which can't be addressed in the meeting.
  382. # [17:40] * Quits: syp (syp@83.219.105.167) (Ping timeout)
  383. # [17:40] <DanC> well, better to deal with them outside the meeting and not spend people's time at all
  384. # [17:41] <DanC> if you're not inviting substantive discussion on summary, I'd like to move it down.
  385. # [17:42] <rubys> that fine too.
  386. # [17:42] <DanC> ACTION-104 due next week
  387. # [17:42] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-104.
  388. # [17:42] <trackbot> ACTION-104 Inquire about table summary and headers status at PFWG caucus on 2009-02-06 due date now next week
  389. # [17:43] <rubys> last time I chaired, we covered the entire agenda in 30 minutes. The previous time, we completed in just under 60.
  390. # [17:43] * Joins: syp (syp@83.219.105.167)
  391. # [17:44] <DanC> I'm conflicted likewise about alt... there has been substantive discussion, but the actual signals re "ACTION-98 Discuss missing-alt with the WAI CG and report back" are "we [the WAI folks] aren't ready to report yet"
  392. # [17:44] <rubys> reordering only matters if there is an expectation that we won't finish.
  393. # [17:44] <oedipus> table summary and headers are temporarily on the side-burner, as we have dedicated several supplemental meetings to provide @alt wording and requirements
  394. # [17:44] <oedipus> we = PFWG/WAI
  395. # [17:44] <DanC> ah; good to know, oedipus
  396. # [17:46] <DanC> well, rubys, it would be nice if the order would stabilize more at T-24 hours, so that people could prepare better and judge whether to attend this week. (e.g. Matt May)
  397. # [17:46] <DanC> I'm conflicted between "leave it stable" and "update it with all the info you can find, whenever you find it"
  398. # [17:46] <oedipus> we are working assiduously on it -- most of the WAI WG chairs are involved with a core of PF participants -- we had hoped to provide something for today, but are exercising caution and due dilligence before we submit our final findings and recommendations to the HTML WG -- our HTML5 Issues Caucus tomorrow (20 February 2009) is dedicated solely to wrapping up on @alt
  399. # [17:47] <DanC> oedipus, it would be nice if you (collectively) would emit some technical signals meanwhile; 2 week latency kinda kills collaboration.
  400. # [17:47] <oedipus> i provided an update after last week's meeting
  401. # [17:48] <DanC> it was completely procedural. (or did I miss some technical content?)
  402. # [17:48] <rubys> I've twisted Julian's arm, and found a scribe! Thanks Julian!
  403. # [17:48] <DanC> yeah... thanks, Julian
  404. # [17:48] <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0285.html
  405. # [17:48] <pimpbot> Title: details on report of PFWG HTML5 actions & issues status from Gregory J. Rosmaita on 2009-02-12 (public-html@w3.org from February 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  406. # [17:48] <oedipus> "1a) consensus is that the new headers wording is good
  407. # [17:49] <annevk> regrets for today
  408. # [17:49] * Quits: myakura (myakura@221.191.119.20) (Quit: Leaving...)
  409. # [17:49] <oedipus> "summary: the self-reference bug shouldn't be closed until the specification is updated to outlaw self-referencing header"
  410. # [17:49] <Julian> I'll need hand-holding for the cleanup and publication, though.
  411. # [17:49] <annevk> this is one of the few weeks I'm at home these days and I have to meet some family and such ;)
  412. # [17:49] * DanC invites RRSagent a little early to get annevk's regrets on record...
  413. # [17:49] <oedipus> "Bug 5822 this bug has been overtaken by events and has been closed"
  414. # [17:49] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  415. # [17:49] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-irc
  416. # [17:49] <DanC> yes, oedipus , I read that message. as I say, it's all procedural
  417. # [17:50] <DanC> it's a nice supplement to last week's minutes, but what I'd like is participation in the relevant threads.
  418. # [17:50] <oedipus> the sticky wicket is this part: "PF WG already made an official announcement on this issue and requested the attribute be re-instated, consult:
  419. # [17:50] <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Aug/0213.html
  420. # [17:50] <oedipus> "
  421. # [17:50] <pimpbot> Title: Re: Request for PFWG WAI review of summary for tabular data from Al Gilman on 2008-08-06 (public-html@w3.org from August 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
  422. # [17:51] <oedipus> "PF WG's position from the outset has been that there is a need to restore @summary for TABLE in the draft specification BEFORE the next public working draft is issued -- janina sajka, chair of PFWG will probably say so formally in the near future in a post to public-html"
  423. # [17:51] * Joins: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.74)
  424. # [17:51] <oedipus> that last seems pretty specific
  425. # [17:51] <DanC> yes, Al G's msg of 6 Aug was noted in the telconference; what we noted is: it doesn't include an argument to justify the conclusion "@summary should stay"
  426. # [17:52] <DanC> yes, the last is specific, but it's procedural, not a technical argument
  427. # [17:52] <oedipus> what is the counter argument? where is the evidence of abuse? why are people afraid of content that assists a certain user group to have the same understanding of a table that a sighted person has by looking at it?
  428. # [17:53] <oedipus> what is the hold up? why haven't we moved forward on this -- why was our request to restore summary NOT heeded before the next PWD was pushed?
  429. # [17:53] <oedipus> those are the questions that need to be answered
  430. # [17:53] <DanC> I can look up the counter-argument; I'm pretty sure it's cited in the tracker
  431. # [17:54] <DanC> the request wasn't heeded because it wasn't persuasive
  432. # [17:54] <oedipus> the only thing i've heard is vague generalities
  433. # [17:54] <rubys> don't worry too much about PWD, beyond the fact that the issue wasn't noted accurately in the draft.
  434. # [17:54] <oedipus> well, since the PWD is a yard-stick by which our progress is measured, the lack of summary is EXTREMELY disappointing
  435. # [17:55] <rubys> the issue needs to be closed by last call
  436. # [17:55] <rubys> there are a lot of issues which aren't making progress
  437. # [17:56] <oedipus> yes, but there are people within and without the HTML WG who are working hard and dilligently -- we aren't just sniping from the sidelines -- our hands are as dirty as anyone else's
  438. # [17:56] <DanC> editor's position is given in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Dec/0175.html , from ian@hixie.ch on 2008-12-20. I don't agree with it, but I don't think Al's msg of 6 Aug helps much.
  439. # [17:56] <pimpbot> Title: Table feedback from Ian Hickson on 2008-12-20 (public-html@w3.org from December 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
  440. # [17:56] <rubys> I'm not suggesting that anybody is merely sniping from the sidelines. The issue is far from closed.
  441. # [17:56] <oedipus> bottom line: PFWG wants @summary
  442. # [17:57] * Quits: darobin (robinb@82.233.247.234) (Client exited)
  443. # [17:57] <DanC> yes, and I want a porche for christmas.
  444. # [17:57] <DanC> stating what you want isn't enough to get it.
  445. # [17:57] <oedipus> we have shown the need for it, we have shown use cases, we have gathered data, and no one who was blind in 1999 is any less blind 10 years later, so why was @summary removedd -- that is the question -- we cannot prove a negative as you would have us
  446. # [17:58] <oedipus> do'\
  447. # [17:58] * jgraham wonders what data is being alluded to
  448. # [17:58] <rubys> actually, my father in law was legally blind in 1999, but no longer is
  449. # [17:58] <oedipus> steve faulkner's collection
  450. # [17:58] <jgraham> oedipus: pointer?
  451. # [17:58] <DanC> Al's msg doesn't show the need for it. I think perhaps other messages have, would you like to help collect them, oedipus ?
  452. # [17:59] <oedipus> well, i admire and congratulate your dad, but i'm not any less blind than i was when i was on the HC review team that worked on HTML4x and CSS2 with the respective working groups
  453. # [17:59] <rubys> you may very well have provided enough justification, and this working group hasn't quite caught up
  454. # [17:59] <DanC> hang on... can we stick with "we have shown use cases, we have gathered data" and get that in the tracker?
  455. # [17:59] * Joins: masinter (user@76.102.104.162)
  456. # [18:00] <oedipus> just read any of steve faulkner's recent posts
  457. # [18:00] <oedipus> hold on, i'll get a pointer
  458. # [18:00] <oedipus> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/summary.html
  459. # [18:00] <pimpbot> Title: summary attribute usage data (at www.paciellogroup.com)
  460. # [18:00] * DanC finds http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0420.html
  461. # [18:01] <rubys> time to invite Zakim?
  462. # [18:01] <oedipus> also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0503.html
  463. # [18:01] <pimpbot> Title: Re: Use and abuse of summary from Leif Halvard Silli on 2009-02-19 (public-html@w3.org from February 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  464. # [18:01] <oedipus> and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0512.html
  465. # [18:01] <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
  466. # [18:01] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  467. # [18:01] <pimpbot> Title: Re: Use and abuse of summary from Steven Faulkner on 2009-02-19 (public-html@w3.org from February 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  468. # [18:01] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  469. # [18:01] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  470. # [18:01] * Joins: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  471. # [18:01] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  472. # [18:01] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  473. # [18:01] <trackbot> Date: 19 February 2009
  474. # [18:01] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  475. # [18:01] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike-Mobile
  476. # [18:01] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  477. # [18:01] <Zakim> +Mike
  478. # [18:01] <DanC> ACTION-98: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0420.html Re: Use and abuse of summary ; also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0503.html
  479. # [18:01] * trackbot attempting to add comment notes to ACTION-98.
  480. # [18:01] <trackbot> ACTION-98 Discuss missing-alt with the WAI CG and report back notes added
  481. # [18:01] <pimpbot> Title: Use and abuse of summary from Steven Faulkner on 2009-02-18 (public-html@w3.org from February 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  482. # [18:01] <DanC> action-98: and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0512.html
  483. # [18:01] * trackbot attempting to add comment notes to ACTION-98.
  484. # [18:01] <trackbot> ACTION-98 Discuss missing-alt with the WAI CG and report back notes added
  485. # [18:01] <pimpbot> Title: Re: Use and abuse of summary from Steven Faulkner on 2009-02-19 (public-html@w3.org from February 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  486. # [18:02] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  487. # [18:02] <DanC> thanks, gregory; those do seem to have technical content; I'll try to read them more closely
  488. # [18:02] <ChrisWilson> zakim, microsoft is me
  489. # [18:02] <Zakim> +ChrisWilson; got it
  490. # [18:02] * DanC Zakim, call DanC-work
  491. # [18:02] * Zakim ok, DanC; the call is being made
  492. # [18:02] <oedipus> no problem
  493. # [18:02] <Zakim> +DanC
  494. # [18:02] <DanC> Topic: Convene, review agenda
  495. # [18:02] <jgraham> Interestingly none of stevef's examples follow wcag
  496. # [18:02] <Zakim> +Matt_May
  497. # [18:03] <oedipus> jgraham are you referring to WCAG2 H7?
  498. # [18:03] <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  499. # [18:03] <Zakim> On the phone I see Julian, Sam, Masinter, Mike, ChrisWilson, DanC, Matt_May
  500. # [18:03] <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
  501. # [18:04] <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
  502. # [18:04] <Zakim> On the phone I see Julian, Sam, Masinter, Mike, ChrisWilson, DanC, Matt_May, Gregory_Rosmaita
  503. # [18:04] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.202.35.52)
  504. # [18:04] <Zakim> On IRC I see masinter, ChrisWilson, RRSAgent, syp, oedipus, rubys, MikeSmith, Julian, billmason, dbaron, aroben, MichaelC, gavin_, zcorpan, maddiin, jwatt, annevk, shepazu, gavin,
  505. # [18:04] <Zakim> ... ROBOd, tlr, hober, sryo, karl, Lachy, asbjornu, gsnedders, krijnh, deltab, DanC, inimino, drry, lucky711x, hsivonen, xover, Shunsuke, Dashiva, timelyx, trackbot, jmb, phenny,
  506. # [18:04] <DanC> Topic: ISSUE-4 (html-versioning): HTML Versioning and DOCTYPEs
  507. # [18:04] <Zakim> ... pimpbot, jgraham, wilhelm, takkaria, Hixie, Philip, Yudai
  508. # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  509. # [18:04] <Julian> scrobe: Julian
  510. # [18:04] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  511. # [18:04] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  512. # [18:04] <MikeSmith> action-93?
  513. # [18:04] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-93
  514. # [18:04] <trackbot> ACTION-93 -- Larry Masinter to make a proposal on doctypes and versioning -- due 2009-02-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  515. # [18:04] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/93
  516. # [18:04] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-93 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  517. # [18:04] <oedipus> scribe: Julian
  518. # [18:04] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-4
  519. # [18:05] <DanC> q+
  520. # [18:05] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  521. # [18:05] <oedipus> ScribeNick: Julian
  522. # [18:05] * Joins: mattmay (mattmay@71.227.174.117)
  523. # [18:05] <DanC> ack danc
  524. # [18:05] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  525. # [18:05] * Parts: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190) (8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  526. # [18:06] <Julian> Masinter: preference for versionig mech. in the language
  527. # [18:06] <Julian> Masinter: no specific technical proposal yet
  528. # [18:06] <jgraham> oedipus: WCAG H73
  529. # [18:06] <Julian> Masinter: not happy with lack of versioning
  530. # [18:07] <DanC> good point... "Should the new HTML language bear a version mechanism?" is probably worth chaning
  531. # [18:07] <Julian> DanC: change title of issue (not to be specific to DOCTYPE)
  532. # [18:07] <DanC> but hmm... maybe that _is_ the issue.
  533. # [18:08] <dsinger> it does seem as if the chairs/team-leads of HTML and XHTML could usefully chat about the use of namespaces (that a new specification can extend a namespace but not incompatibly redefine it)?
  534. # [18:08] <DanC> (no, in point of fact, the TAG doesn't have a finding on versioning.)
  535. # [18:08] <Julian> (talk about related TAG finding)
  536. # [18:08] <Julian> Masinter: update TAG finding and see how it then applies to HTML
  537. # [18:09] <Julian> Masinter: due during TAG F2F meeting in march
  538. # [18:09] <DanC> TAG ftf is 3-5 Mar http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/#mtg
  539. # [18:09] <pimpbot> Title: W3C Technical Architecture Group (TAG) (at www.w3.org)
  540. # [18:09] <Julian> DanC: no agreed upon TAG finding
  541. # [18:09] <Julian> Masinter: ...draft finding...
  542. # [18:10] <Julian> DanC: advocate version attribute?
  543. # [18:10] <jgraham> HTML design principles seem more relevant than the TAG finding if the TAG is working from different principles...
  544. # [18:11] <DanC> ACTION: Larry ask the TAG to consider HTML in particular in its work on versioning
  545. # [18:11] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  546. # [18:11] * RRSAgent records action 1
  547. # [18:11] <trackbot> Created ACTION-108 - Ask the TAG to consider HTML in particular in its work on versioning [on Larry Masinter - due 2009-02-26].
  548. # [18:11] <DanC> close action-93
  549. # [18:11] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-93.
  550. # [18:11] <trackbot> ACTION-93 Make a proposal on doctypes and versioning closed
  551. # [18:11] <DanC> action-108 due 15 Mar
  552. # [18:11] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-108.
  553. # [18:11] <trackbot> ACTION-108 Ask the TAG to consider HTML in particular in its work on versioning due date now 15 Mar
  554. # [18:12] <DanC> action-108 due 30 Mar
  555. # [18:12] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-108.
  556. # [18:12] <trackbot> ACTION-108 Ask the TAG to consider HTML in particular in its work on versioning due date now 30 Mar
  557. # [18:12] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-35
  558. # [18:12] <DanC> (let's use names along with numbers...)
  559. # [18:12] <DanC> Topic: ISSUE-35 (aria-processing)
  560. # [18:13] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  561. # [18:13] * Joins: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217)
  562. # [18:13] <Julian> Cynthia: interest in HTML WG to join task force?
  563. # [18:14] <Julian> s/Cynthia/Sam/
  564. # [18:14] <DanC> (anne declined. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0225.html )
  565. # [18:14] <pimpbot> Title: Re: Joint task force on ARIA user agent implementation from Anne van Kesteren on 2009-02-11 (public-html@w3.org from February 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  566. # [18:14] <Julian> Cynthia: keep TF under 20 people
  567. # [18:14] <DanC> hsivonen?
  568. # [18:15] <Julian> DanC: not heard from Henri S.
  569. # [18:15] <DanC> ACTION-107 due next week
  570. # [18:15] <DanC> ACTION-107 due next week
  571. # [18:15] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-107.
  572. # [18:15] <trackbot> ACTION-107 recruit ARIA joint-TF members due date now next week
  573. # [18:15] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-59 (normative-language-reference):
  574. # [18:16] <Julian> MikeSmith: ned people committed to reviewing the draft
  575. # [18:16] <rubys> s/ned/need/
  576. # [18:16] <Julian> MikeSmith: ..and contributing
  577. # [18:16] <Julian> MikeSmith: ...adding examples
  578. # [18:16] <DanC> (I'm working on contributing... learned the editing mechanics and made a small edit yesterday)
  579. # [18:16] <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
  580. # [18:16] <Zakim> On the phone I see Julian, Sam, Masinter, Mike, ChrisWilson, DanC, Matt_May, Gregory_Rosmaita, [Apple], Cynthia_Shelly
  581. # [18:16] <Zakim> [Apple] has dsinger
  582. # [18:17] <Julian> MikeSmith: ask people on the call
  583. # [18:17] <Julian> Cynthia: timeline?
  584. # [18:17] <DanC> q+ to say he'd like to get 2 drafts out by June
  585. # [18:17] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  586. # [18:17] <Julian> MikeSmith: 1..2 months?
  587. # [18:18] <masinter> q+
  588. # [18:18] * Zakim sees DanC, masinter on the speaker queue
  589. # [18:18] <Julian> Cynthia: interested in reviewing
  590. # [18:18] <DanC> ack danc
  591. # [18:18] <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to say he'd like to get 2 drafts out by June
  592. # [18:18] * Zakim sees masinter on the speaker queue
  593. # [18:19] <Julian> DanC: recreated build process and did first commit
  594. # [18:19] <Julian> q+
  595. # [18:19] * Zakim sees masinter, Julian on the speaker queue
  596. # [18:19] <DanC> ack masinter
  597. # [18:19] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  598. # [18:20] <Julian> Masinter: add note about normative overlap issue
  599. # [18:20] <DanC> action-100?
  600. # [18:20] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-100
  601. # [18:20] <trackbot> ACTION-100 -- Michael(tm) Smith to add a note about issue-67 to the Status section of "HTML 5: The Markup Language" -- due 2009-02-19 -- OPEN
  602. # [18:20] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/100
  603. # [18:20] <rubys> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/100
  604. # [18:20] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-100 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  605. # [18:20] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-100 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  606. # [18:20] <DanC> (what's the overlap, technically? help? I'm missing a detail)
  607. # [18:21] <DanC> (oh... overlap with /TR/html5/ ?)
  608. # [18:21] * rubys nods
  609. # [18:21] <Julian> Masinter: need a statement about what's missing
  610. # [18:21] <Julian> q+ to volunteer for review
  611. # [18:21] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  612. # [18:21] <oedipus> ack ju
  613. # [18:21] <Zakim> Julian, you wanted to volunteer for review
  614. # [18:21] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  615. # [18:22] * Lachy is here now. If there's any relevant topic for me to comment on, ping me
  616. # [18:22] * DanC would appreciate MikeSmith scribbling down what Larry requested in a little more detail
  617. # [18:22] * DanC waves to Lachy
  618. # [18:22] <Julian> SamC: got sufficient interest
  619. # [18:22] <rubys> s/SamC/SamR/
  620. # [18:23] <DanC> ACTION: Sam pursue publication of HTML 5: The Markup Language... poll or whatever
  621. # [18:23] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  622. # [18:23] * RRSAgent records action 2
  623. # [18:23] <trackbot> Created ACTION-109 - Pursue publication of HTML 5: The Markup Language... poll or whatever [on Sam Ruby - due 2009-02-26].
  624. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> action: Michael(tm) to add note to H:TML draft about what's currently missing and planned to be added
  625. # [18:23] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  626. # [18:23] <trackbot> Created ACTION-110 - Add note to H:TML draft about what's currently missing and planned to be added [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2009-02-26].
  627. # [18:23] * RRSAgent records action 3
  628. # [18:23] * Parts: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217)
  629. # [18:23] <DanC> close action-77
  630. # [18:23] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-77.
  631. # [18:23] <trackbot> ACTION-77 Lead HTML WG to response to TAG discussion and report back to TAG closed
  632. # [18:23] * Quits: zcorpan (zcorpan@88.131.66.80) (Quit: zcorpan)
  633. # [18:23] <oedipus> ISSUE-31 (missing-alt) http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31 - What to do when a reasonable text equivalent is unknown/unavailable?
  634. # [18:23] <oedipus> Action 98 (http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/98 - Discuss missing-alt with the WAI CG and report back - due 2009-02-25 - open
  635. # [18:23] <oedipus> we are working assiduously on it -- most of the WAI WG chairs are involved with a core of PF participants -- we had hoped to provide something for today, but are exercising caution and due dilligence before we submit our final findings and recommendations to the HTML WG -- our HTML5 Issues Caucus tomorrow (20 February 2009) is dedicated solely to wrapping up on @alt
  636. # [18:23] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  637. # [18:23] <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 98
  638. # [18:23] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-31 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  639. # [18:23] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-98 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  640. # [18:23] <Julian> ISSUE: ISSUE-31 (missing-alt)
  641. # [18:23] * trackbot noticed an ISSUE. Trying to create it.
  642. # [18:23] <trackbot> Created ISSUE-69 - ISSUE-31 (missing-alt) ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/69/edit .
  643. # [18:24] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-31 (missing-alt)
  644. # [18:24] <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0429.html
  645. # [18:24] <pimpbot> Title: Re: Need differentiator between "no alt text provided" and "no alt text necessary" from Dan Connolly on 2009-02-18 (public-html@w3.org from February 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  646. # [18:24] <oedipus> PF and the WAI CG are working assiduously on it -- most of the WAI WG chairs are involved with a core of PF participants -- we had hoped to provide something for today, but are exercising caution and due dilligence before we submit our final findings and recommendations to the HTML WG -- our HTML5 Issues Caucus tomorrow (20 February 2009) is dedicated solely to wrapping up on @alt
  647. # [18:24] <DanC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Feb/0246.html
  648. # [18:24] <pimpbot> Title: Re: Need differentiator between "no alt text provided" and "no alt text necessary" from Dan Connolly on 2009-02-11 (public-html@w3.org from February 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  649. # [18:25] <Julian> DanC: tried to confirm that james craig was speaking on behalf of PF WG
  650. # [18:25] <Julian> Matt: TF still working toward it
  651. # [18:25] <Julian> Matt: will take longer
  652. # [18:26] <DanC> ACTION-98 due 15 March 2009
  653. # [18:26] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-98.
  654. # [18:26] <trackbot> ACTION-98 Discuss missing-alt with the WAI CG and report back due date now 15 March 2009
  655. # [18:26] <Julian> Gregory: trying to come up with comprehensive and complete answer
  656. # [18:26] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-20 (table-headers)
  657. # [18:27] <Julian> DanC: propose to close issue
  658. # [18:27] <Julian> DanC: no movement
  659. # [18:27] <Julian> DanC: new tests by James graham
  660. # [18:28] <Julian> DanC: leave it as low prio
  661. # [18:28] <jgraham> Would like someone to take over writing tests
  662. # [18:28] <Julian> Gregory, can you repeat that in IRC?
  663. # [18:28] <DanC> action-72?
  664. # [18:28] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-72
  665. # [18:28] <trackbot> ACTION-72 -- Dan Connolly to monitor progress of testing re 20 Dec HTML 5 spec draft and test materials from WCAG 2 -- due 2009-02-26 -- OPEN
  666. # [18:28] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/72
  667. # [18:28] * oedipus ok
  668. # [18:28] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-72 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  669. # [18:29] <DanC> DanC: I proposed to close a while ago, but the proposal didn't carry because Chaals and James want more study
  670. # [18:29] <oedipus> GJR: table headers and summary are still on our front-burner, but we are concentrating on the alt issue right now because of availability of WAI chairs to work intensely on a complete and comprehensive solution
  671. # [18:29] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-32 (table-summary)
  672. # [18:29] * jgraham only wants tests
  673. # [18:29] <jgraham> really
  674. # [18:29] <Julian> SamC: can't close this week
  675. # [18:29] <Julian> s/SamC/Sam/
  676. # [18:29] <DanC> q+
  677. # [18:29] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  678. # [18:30] <Julian> Chris: need to figute how to make decision
  679. # [18:30] <Julian> s/sfigute/figure/
  680. # [18:31] <Julian> DanC: thinks PF WG is done with this
  681. # [18:31] <Julian> Gregory: still PF consensus that summary should be in the spec
  682. # [18:32] <oedipus> s/Gregory: still PF/Matt_May: still
  683. # [18:32] <DanC> (I think Matt said that... yeah)
  684. # [18:32] <oedipus> but i concur with matt
  685. # [18:32] <DanC> (TODO: take some pointers that i mistakenly put on action-98 and move them to the summary issue)
  686. # [18:33] <Julian> Gregory: PF chair is changing, ARIA going to LC
  687. # [18:33] * DanC pauses to see if julian or rubys types the action this time
  688. # [18:34] <rubys> action: sam to work on process issues re: summary due late march
  689. # [18:34] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  690. # [18:34] * RRSAgent records action 4
  691. # [18:34] <trackbot> Created ACTION-111 - Work on process issues re: summary due late march [on Sam Ruby - due 2009-02-26].
  692. # [18:34] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-37 (html-svg-mathml)
  693. # [18:34] <DanC> action-111 due 30 March
  694. # [18:34] * trackbot attempting to change due date on ACTION-111.
  695. # [18:34] <trackbot> ACTION-111 Work on process issues re: summary due late march due date now 30 March
  696. # [18:34] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-56 (urls-webarch)
  697. # [18:35] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-54 (doctype-legacy-compat)
  698. # [18:35] <DanC> Lachy, no news on about: URI scheme, is there?
  699. # [18:35] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-63 (origin-req-scope)
  700. # [18:35] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-55 (head-profile)
  701. # [18:35] <DanC> q+ to request an agendum re IETF in March
  702. # [18:35] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  703. # [18:35] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-60 (html5-xhtml-namespace)
  704. # [18:36] <DanC> ack danc
  705. # [18:36] <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to request an agendum re IETF in March
  706. # [18:36] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  707. # [18:36] <Lachy> DanC, no news about that yet
  708. # [18:36] <Julian> TOPIC: ISSUE-13 (handling-http-401-status)
  709. # [18:36] <Julian> TOPIC: ACTION-77 (edit)
  710. # [18:36] <Lachy> DanC, whens the due date on the about: URI thing?
  711. # [18:36] <Julian> TOPIC: ACTION-98
  712. # [18:36] <masinter> ((was away))
  713. # [18:36] <Julian> TOPIC: ACTION-100
  714. # [18:37] <DanC> ACTION-103?
  715. # [18:37] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-103
  716. # [18:37] <trackbot> ACTION-103 -- Lachlan Hunt to track registration of about: URI scheme -- due 2009-03-05 -- OPEN
  717. # [18:37] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/103
  718. # [18:37] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  719. # [18:37] <DanC> action-100?
  720. # [18:37] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-100
  721. # [18:37] <trackbot> ACTION-100 -- Michael(tm) Smith to add a note about issue-67 to the Status section of "HTML 5: The Markup Language" -- due 2009-02-19 -- OPEN
  722. # [18:37] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/100
  723. # [18:37] <Julian> TOPIC: ACTION-107
  724. # [18:37] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-100 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  725. # [18:37] <Julian> TOPIC: IETF coordination
  726. # [18:37] * DanC suggests Julian only do a Topic: if we actually take up substantive discussion
  727. # [18:37] <DanC> " 74th IETF - San Francisco, CA, USA
  728. # [18:37] <DanC> (March 22-27, 2009)"
  729. # [18:37] <dsinger> overlapping the AC rep meeting
  730. # [18:37] <dsinger> curses
  731. # [18:37] <DanC> -- http://www.ietf.org/
  732. # [18:37] <Julian> Sam: IETF meeting late March SF
  733. # [18:37] <pimpbot> Title: IETF Home Page (at www.ietf.org)
  734. # [18:38] <dsinger> can we do it a day later?
  735. # [18:38] <DanC> q+ to ... umm... apologize or something about the W3C AC/IETF conflict
  736. # [18:38] * Zakim sees DanC on the speaker queue
  737. # [18:39] <DanC> ack danc
  738. # [18:39] <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to ... umm... apologize or something about the W3C AC/IETF conflict
  739. # [18:39] <oedipus> ack da
  740. # [18:39] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  741. # [18:39] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  742. # [18:39] <Julian> DanC: couldn't avoid the conflict
  743. # [18:39] <Julian> Sam: ApacheCon conflicts as well
  744. # [18:40] <Julian> Sam: cont. discussion on mailing list
  745. # [18:40] <Julian> DanC: agenda: URI overlap, web sockets,
  746. # [18:40] <Julian> ...what else?
  747. # [18:41] <Julian> Masinter: talk about IETF process issues
  748. # [18:41] <Julian> Masinter: identify actual issues first
  749. # [18:42] <Julian> Sam: IETF side to coord agenda
  750. # [18:42] <DanC> rather:
  751. # [18:42] <DanC> Sam: from the W3C side, I'll coordinate agenda; I'm not sure who from the IETF side
  752. # [18:42] <Julian> Masinter: MNot essential because of HTTPbis
  753. # [18:43] <Julian> Sam: will follow up on mailing list
  754. # [18:43] <masinter> Lisa has broader charter as app area director in HTTP
  755. # [18:43] <oedipus> second move to adjourn
  756. # [18:43] <DanC> +1 adjourn
  757. # [18:43] <dsinger> ok
  758. # [18:43] <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
  759. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Matt_May
  760. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  761. # [18:43] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  762. # [18:43] <Zakim> -DanC
  763. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Sam
  764. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
  765. # [18:43] * tlr is now known as tlr-later
  766. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Masinter
  767. # [18:43] <MikeSmith> Zakim, drop Mike
  768. # [18:43] <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
  769. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Mike
  770. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Julian
  771. # [18:43] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  772. # [18:43] <Zakim> Attendees were Julian, Sam, Masinter, Mike, ChrisWilson, DanC, Matt_May, Gregory_Rosmaita, dsinger, Cynthia_Shelly
  773. # [18:43] <DanC> say... that felt pretty crisp and fairly productive... mostly checking status of email discussions, but that's good.
  774. # [18:44] * oedipus julian the first thing is to get the first draft of the minutes up
  775. # [18:44] * Joins: alexf (alejandro@85.152.42.1)
  776. # [18:44] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  777. # [18:44] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  778. # [18:44] <DanC> oh... right... julian...
  779. # [18:44] * Parts: alexf (alejandro@85.152.42.1)
  780. # [18:44] <Julian> That's behind an ACL.
  781. # [18:44] * oedipus now, we need to check the minutes to ensure that the attendance fields are populated and check the script's diagnostic output
  782. # [18:44] * Quits: mattmay (mattmay@71.227.174.117) (Quit: mattmay)
  783. # [18:44] <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs public
  784. # [18:44] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, DanC
  785. # [18:44] <Julian> Oh, not anymore, OK.
  786. # [18:44] * Quits: masinter (user@76.102.104.162) (Client exited)
  787. # [18:45] <Julian> Now, sanity checks and fixes?
  788. # [18:45] <oedipus> chair: Sam_Ruby
  789. # [18:45] <DanC> Julian, the essential thing is to mail whatever you can to the WG. oedipus is experienced at helping the bots prepare the "whatever you can"
  790. # [18:45] * oedipus yep
  791. # [18:45] * oedipus do you want to be coached or to observe?
  792. # [18:45] * Julian wants to be coached
  793. # [18:46] * oedipus ok, then the chair was missing so i added sam's name
  794. # [18:46] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  795. # [18:46] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  796. # [18:46] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 19 Feb 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  797. # [18:46] * DanC leaves this in the evidently-capable hands of Julian and oedipus , takes a break before TAG telcon
  798. # [18:46] * Julian nods
  799. # [18:46] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.202.35.52) (Quit: dsinger)
  800. # [18:46] * oedipus now, we should dismiss zakim with "zakim, plese part"
  801. # [18:47] <DanC> or:
  802. # [18:47] <DanC> Zakim, list attendees?
  803. # [18:47] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, DanC.
  804. # [18:47] <DanC> Zakim, list attendees
  805. # [18:47] <Zakim> sorry, DanC, I don't know what conference this is
  806. # [18:47] <DanC> phpht.
  807. # [18:47] <Julian> Zakim, please part
  808. # [18:47] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  809. # [18:47] * oedipus that will get us the list of attendees
  810. # [18:47] * oedipus now "rrsagent, make minutes" again and check
  811. # [18:47] <DanC> hmm... glitch somewhere. Zakim seems to have a few screws lose.
  812. # [18:48] <Julian> the agenda still says: Chair SV_MEETING_CHAIR
  813. # [18:48] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  814. # [18:48] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  815. # [18:48] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 19 Feb 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  816. # [18:48] * oedipus now it should update -- usually takes a few seconds
  817. # [18:49] <oedipus> s/figute/figure/
  818. # [18:49] * oedipus taking a long time to update
  819. # [18:49] * Julian maybe it wants "Sam" instead of "Sam_Ruby"?
  820. # [18:49] * oedipus it should be indifferent - the underscore is simply a means of tying first and last names together; space is interpreted as a new name
  821. # [18:50] <Julian> s/MNot/Mark Nottingham/
  822. # [18:50] <Julian> s/what else?/HTTP, mime types/
  823. # [18:51] * oedipus everytime you want to effect a change, you need to issue an "rrsagent, make minutes"
  824. # [18:51] <Julian> yes
  825. # [18:51] <Julian> rrsagent, make minutes
  826. # [18:51] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-minutes.html Julian
  827. # [18:51] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 19 Feb 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  828. # [18:51] * oedipus the important thing is that rrsagent is the only tool you and i have to tweak and clean up the minutes
  829. # [18:52] * oedipus that's why i don't dismiss rrsagent, until i have sent out the announcement
  830. # [18:52] <DanC> RRSAgent, stop
  831. # [18:52] * RRSAgent is not logging
  832. # [18:52] <DanC> that way you don't have to hide with /me any more
  833. # [18:52] <DanC> I think you can start again if you want to ammend
  834. # [18:52] <Julian> merci
  835. # [18:52] <DanC> amend
  836. # [18:53] * oedipus thanks DanC
  837. # [18:53] * oedipus that command hadn't been working for a while
  838. # [18:53] <oedipus> chair+ Sam
  839. # [18:53] * oedipus let's try that
  840. # [18:53] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  841. # [18:53] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  842. # [18:53] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 19 Feb 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  843. # [18:55] <oedipus> don't know why it won't ack the chair's name
  844. # [18:55] <Julian> chair: Sam
  845. # [18:56] <Julian> rrsagent, make minutes
  846. # [18:56] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-minutes.html Julian
  847. # [18:56] * rubys wonders why his ears are ringing
  848. # [18:56] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 19 Feb 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  849. # [18:56] * oedipus we can't get the bot to ack you as chair
  850. # [18:56] <rubys> lol
  851. # [18:56] * oedipus hmmm -- perhaps...
  852. # [18:57] <oedipus> s/SV_MEETING_CHAIR/Sam_Ruby
  853. # [18:57] * oedipus let's sed if that works
  854. # [18:57] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  855. # [18:57] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  856. # [18:57] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 19 Feb 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  857. # [18:58] <Julian> no joy
  858. # [18:58] <oedipus> i'm flummoxed
  859. # [18:58] <oedipus> julian, we can leave it to DanC or other staff to edit the minutes to add sam as chair
  860. # [18:58] <DanC> no!
  861. # [18:58] <DanC> do what you can and send it to the wg, please!
  862. # [18:58] <oedipus> chair: rubys
  863. # [18:59] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  864. # [18:59] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  865. # [18:59] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 19 Feb 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  866. # [18:59] <oedipus> sam, your new name is SV_MEETING_CHAIR
  867. # [18:59] <DanC> supplement with hand-written note atop your email message, if you like
  868. # [18:59] <Julian> ack
  869. # [18:59] * rubys is now known as SV_MEETING_CHAIR
  870. # [18:59] <oedipus> julian, they seem ready for primetime
  871. # [19:00] * oedipus LOL
  872. # [19:00] * DanC LOL
  873. # [19:00] <Julian> ok, so I send pointer plus ASCII version to the mailing list?
  874. # [19:00] <oedipus> to the public-html-announce list
  875. # [19:00] <oedipus> to the public-html-wg-announce list
  876. # [19:00] <oedipus> the same list to which agendas are posted
  877. # [19:01] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913])
  878. # [19:01] * Joins: Julian_ (chatzilla@217.91.35.233)
  879. # [19:01] * Julian_ is now known as Julian
  880. # [19:01] <oedipus> julian, you ok from here?
  881. # [19:01] <SV_MEETING_CHAIR> Chair: Sam
  882. # [19:01] <Julian> i think so
  883. # [19:01] <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
  884. # [19:01] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-minutes.html oedipus
  885. # [19:01] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 19 Feb 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  886. # [19:01] <oedipus> you can use the "comma tool" to get an ascii verion "URL,text"
  887. # [19:02] <oedipus> in your browser, that is
  888. # [19:02] <oedipus> i'll be around, if you need, just ping me, julian
  889. # [19:02] <Julian> merci
  890. # [19:03] <oedipus> pas de quoi
  891. # [19:03] * SV_MEETING_CHAIR is now known as rubys
  892. # [19:19] <oedipus> julian, i have to run -- everything o.k. with the minutes?
  893. # [19:19] <Julian> already sent
  894. # [19:19] <oedipus> should've checked <grin> - thanks for minuting - it's not as easy as it looks!
  895. # [19:19] <oedipus> julian, last bit "rrsagent, please part"
  896. # [19:20] <Julian> rrsagent, please part
  897. # [19:20] <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-actions.rdf :
  898. # [19:20] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Larry ask the TAG to consider HTML in particular in its work on versioning [1]
  899. # [19:20] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-irc#T17-09-35
  900. # [19:20] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Sam pursue publication of HTML 5: The Markup Language... poll or whatever [2]
  901. # [19:20] <oedipus> that will get the actions into the RDF for the WG
  902. # [19:20] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-irc#T17-21-02
  903. # [19:20] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael(tm) to add note to H:TML draft about what's currently missing and planned to be added [3]
  904. # [19:20] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-irc#T17-21-03
  905. # [19:20] <RRSAgent> ACTION: sam to work on process issues re: summary due late march [4]
  906. # [19:20] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-html-wg-irc#T17-32-17
  907. # [19:20] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  908. # [19:20] <oedipus> rock'n'roll!
  909. # [19:20] <Julian> again, thanks a lot
  910. # [19:20] <oedipus> no problem
  911. # [19:20] <oedipus> thanks for scribing
  912. # [19:26] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913])
  913. # [19:27] * Joins: adele (adele@17.244.17.135)
  914. # [19:33] * Joins: tH (Rob@129.11.83.14)
  915. # [19:43] <karl> http://blog.atebits.com/2009/02/fixing-oauth/
  916. # [19:43] <pimpbot> Title: Fixing OAuth (at blog.atebits.com)
  917. # [19:43] <karl> >The OAuth Core 1.0 spec hard codes the concept of a web browser as the means to authenticate with a provider. I would like to generalize that and introduce a new term, call it an authentication gateway for now.
  918. # [19:53] * Quits: rubys (rubys@75.182.92.38) (Quit: Leaving.)
  919. # [20:29] * Joins: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217)
  920. # [20:30] * Parts: Laura (lauracarls@131.212.98.217)
  921. # [20:34] <DanC> wild... no public-html mail since 9:32am today? or is this IMAP latency?
  922. # [20:35] <gsnedders> DanC: 15:34Z is the last email I have
  923. # [20:35] * Philip too
  924. # [20:35] * DanC can't convert 07:32:41 -0800 to Z-time in his head
  925. # [20:35] <gsnedders> 15:32:41Z
  926. # [20:46] * Quits: maddiin (mc@87.185.206.229) (Quit: maddiin)
  927. # [21:03] * Quits: adele (adele@17.244.17.135) (Quit: adele)
  928. # [21:12] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.230)
  929. # [21:39] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30) (Quit: shepazu)
  930. # [22:00] <DanC> close ACTION-104
  931. # [22:00] * trackbot attempting to close ACTION-104.
  932. # [22:00] <trackbot> ACTION-104 Inquire about table summary and headers status at PFWG caucus on 2009-02-06 closed
  933. # [22:03] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  934. # [22:17] * Quits: aroben (aroben@69.142.95.189) (Quit: aroben)
  935. # [22:25] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.230) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  936. # [22:31] * DanC updates ISSUE-32 a bit
  937. # [22:32] * tlr-later is now known as tlr
  938. # [22:33] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.246)
  939. # [22:36] * Joins: aroben (aroben@69.142.95.189)
  940. # [22:36] * Quits: karl (karlcow@70.81.32.202) (Quit: O public road, I say back I am not afraid to leave you, yet I love you, you express me better than I can express myself.)
  941. # [22:37] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30)
  942. # [22:44] * Quits: jwatt (roslea@122.111.25.253) (Ping timeout)
  943. # [22:58] * Parts: billmason (bmason@69.30.57.102)
  944. # [23:12] * Quits: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913])
  945. # [23:17] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  946. # [23:25] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Ping timeout)
  947. # [23:28] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  948. # [23:29] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  949. # [23:29] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Quit: tlr)
  950. # [23:30] * Joins: karl (karlcow@96.20.128.140)
  951. # [23:34] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Ping timeout)
  952. # [23:36] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  953. # [23:36] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
  954. # [23:37] * Joins: jwatt (roslea@61.88.219.66)
  955. # [23:41] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30)
  956. # [23:46] * Quits: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66) (Ping timeout)
  957. # [23:53] * Joins: heycam (cam@61.88.219.66)
  958. # Session Close: Fri Feb 20 00:00:00 2009

The end :)