Options:
- # Session Start: Tue Feb 24 00:00:00 2009
- # Session Ident: #html-wg
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- # [00:25] <heycam> DanC or tlr, would one of you be able to change the acls for http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-svg-irc to public for me?
- # [00:25] <heycam> (the .txt and .html versions both, i guess)
- # [00:25] <DanC> done
- # [00:25] <heycam> DanC, thanks
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- # [00:30] <heycam> DanC, could you also install http://mcc.id.au/temp/19-svg-minutes.html as http://www.w3.org/2009/02/19-svg-minutes.html?
- # [00:30] <pimpbot> Title: SVG Working Group Teleconference -- 19 Feb 2009 (at mcc.id.au)
- # [00:31] <DanC> I could, but I don't think that's a good use of team contact time. I suggest you mail it to the WG as an attachment
- # [00:31] <DanC> or CVS commit it someplace where you have CVS write access
- # [00:31] <DanC> or mail it to www-archive and send the wg a pointer
- # [00:31] <heycam> ok
- # [00:31] <heycam> yeah that'd work
- # [00:41] <pimpbot> planet: Weekly Status Report, W08/2009 <http://home.kairo.at/blog/2009-02/weekly_status_report_w08_2009>
- # [00:44] <heycam> Hixie, we discussed SVG in text/html last week at our F2F, so we will mail some comments in soon about that (re your reply to the htmlwg minutes)
- # [00:53] <Hixie> cool
- # [00:53] <Hixie> i'm in no rush, the longer you wait the easier it is for me :-)
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- # [01:14] * karl starts to think that we will need a checkbox like "Enable Java" and "Enable Javascript" for Canvas. I know it is done in Javascript I would like a specific checkbox for Canvas. Enable Java is unchecked. I'll probably uncheck canvas.
- # [01:14] <heycam> the longer we wait the more entrenched existing implementations get, you mean? :)
- # [01:14] <Hixie> heycam: yup :-)
- # [01:18] <Philip> karl: Do you want an "Enable <marquee>" and "Enable <font color>" and "Enable <h1>" checkbox too?
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- # [01:47] <karl> hmm Philip you gave me a simple idea. display: none; :) that should work.
- # [01:49] <smedero> karl: though I guess that might not save you from a poorly coded <canvas> widget... (if you were aiming to block <canvas> for performance reasons ala as Mac users tend to do w/ "flashblock").
- # [02:01] <karl> smedero: yes performance and dumb marketing and advertisements messages. Because that will come for sure ;)
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- # [03:36] <gsnedders> karl: Try looking through for where the second column is an IP address
- # [03:38] <karl> most of them no ?
- # [03:38] <gsnedders> Most of them no
- # [03:39] <gsnedders> Enough in some datasets (though obviously not this one) for it to be a big enough issue for it to be ignored in most UAs
- # [03:39] <karl> PLus the fact that
- # [03:39] <karl> Content-Location = "Content-Location" ":"
- # [03:39] <karl> ( absoluteURI | relativeURI )
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- # [03:40] <gsnedders> Yeah. What you want to do is see if the IP address actually matches the URI if you try and access it
- # [03:40] <karl> huh?
- # [03:41] <karl> You mean line of this type http://209.184.141.5/caldwellheight/|http://209.184.141.5/caldwellheight/Default.htm ?
- # [03:41] <gsnedders> Yeah
- # [03:41] <karl> what's wrong with those?
- # [03:41] <gsnedders> The first column is the URI accessed, the second is the content-location value
- # [03:42] <gsnedders> In that case? Nothing
- # [03:42] <karl> yes understood
- # [03:42] <karl> give me an example you consider bogus
- # [03:42] <gsnedders> http://www.infocad.gr|http://192.168.100.90/INDEX.htm
- # [03:43] <karl> ok then ? what is wrong with it?
- # [03:43] <gsnedders> Try accessing both of the URIs
- # [03:43] <karl> you mean they might give you a different result ?
- # [03:44] <gsnedders> Note the latter is a private network one, and thus makes no sense on the public web
- # [03:44] <karl> yes seen that. So how many private networks in the full sample?
- # [03:45] <karl> Like I wonder how many are really wrong
- # [03:45] <karl> because from eyesight it seems not that many
- # [03:47] <karl> the example you gave for example is a frameset
- # [03:47] <karl> with a <frame src="http://www.infocadgroup.com" no border=0 noresize>
- # [03:49] <karl> ahah there is a pattern
- # [03:49] <karl> http://web-sniffer.net/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fclacsec.lima.icao.int%2F&submit=Submit&http=1.1&gzip=yes&type=GET&uak=0
- # [03:49] <pimpbot> Title: View HTTP Request and Response Header (at web-sniffer.net)
- # [03:49] <karl> another one of your list
- # [03:49] <karl> and again a frameset <frameset framespacing="0" border="0" frameborder="0" cols="166,*">
- # [03:49] <karl> both were MS Internet Server
- # [03:50] <karl> Now you raised my curiosity
- # [03:50] <gsnedders> Also a fair number will be IIS, which by default (until 7.0 IIRC) always sent Content-Location, even if you couldn't really find it
- # [03:50] <karl> to see which system mangles Content-Location
- # [03:50] <gsnedders> There are cases where Apache sends a bogus Content-Location too
- # [03:50] <karl> gsnedders: did you compile these stats somewhere?
- # [03:50] <karl> That would be cool if you did to publish them
- # [03:50] <gsnedders> Somewhere. That's half my issue with this.
- # [03:51] <gsnedders> Somewhere is the very important word. I don't know where.
- # [03:51] <karl> what is the other half of the issue?
- # [03:51] <gsnedders> It's unfinished analysis
- # [03:51] <karl> ahah.
- # [03:51] <karl> So ok. I consider Content-Location not broken then ;)
- # [03:52] <karl> gsnedders: the list of IPs you collected came from somewhere specific ?
- # [03:52] <gsnedders> karl: Coming from one server, or the list URIs you mean?
- # [03:52] <karl> Maybe I should try to convince Brian Wilson to get the MAMA 2, The Return of The Vengeance of The Anger Web, to look at these?
- # [03:53] <karl> the URIs list
- # [03:53] <karl> was it from a specific sample
- # [03:53] <gsnedders> This is one of Philip's datasets from his crawling
- # [03:54] <gsnedders> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109553
- # [03:54] <gsnedders> http://groups.google.com/group/opera.general/msg/9496b1b58a876b6b
- # [03:54] <karl> gsnedders: many thanks for all the info
- # [03:54] <pimpbot> Title: Bug 109553 [FIX]Implement support for HTTP 1.1 Content-location header (at bugzilla.mozilla.org)
- # [03:54] <pimpbot> Title: relative links resolved incorrectly ? - opera.general | Google Groups (at groups.google.com)
- # [03:55] <gsnedders> No, two of Philip's datasets
- # [03:55] <gsnedders> See the start of http://hg.gsnedders.com/http-parsing/file/bbab4a6298d7/Philip%20Taylor%27s%20Header%20Data/README.txt
- # [03:55] <pimpbot> Title: Tolerant HTTP Parsing: Philip Taylor's Header Data/README.txt@bbab4a6298d7 (at hg.gsnedders.com)
- # [04:01] <karl> ahaha the bugzilla thread is enlightning
- # [04:02] <karl> fear and market share…
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- # [04:12] <karl> oh anne is heading to Keio
- # [04:13] * gsnedders gives up trying to keep up with where anne is in the world
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- # [04:16] <karl> gsnedders: http://twitter.com/annevk/status/1243428997
- # [04:16] <pimpbot> Title: Twitter / Anne van Kesteren: With @sideshowbarker in a ... (at twitter.com)
- # [04:16] <gsnedders> Yeah, I saw that
- # [04:17] <MikeSmith> network connection is a little unstable
- # [04:19] <gsnedders> On a totally unrelated note, anyone got any suggestions of where I could get a job next (academic) year?
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- # [04:39] <karl> gsnedders: http://www.adaptivepath.com/blog/2009/02/12/assumption-is-a-funny-thing/
- # [04:39] <pimpbot> Title: adaptive path » blog » Teresa Brazen » Assumption is a funny thing. (at www.adaptivepath.com)
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- # [04:46] <pimpbot> planet: Offered Without Comment <http://blog.mozilla.com/rob-sayre/2009/02/23/offered-without-comment-2/>
- # [05:00] <karl> HTML 5 Magnetism - http://snuh.tumblr.com/post/74502775/via-birdscene
- # [05:00] <pimpbot> Title: snuh - (via birdscene) (at snuh.tumblr.com)
- # [05:46] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 6610] add a preventable forced-fragment method" ( message in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Feb/0045.html>
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- # [06:17] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 6606] generic 3rd-party , Smart Tags, and Activities prevention" (1 message in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Feb/0046.html>
- # [06:18] <anne2> whoa
- # [06:18] <anne2> wtf
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- # [06:23] <gsnedders> That's long
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- # [07:31] * anne wonders if it's worth his time to go to the IETF HTML5 thingie
- # [07:31] <anne> (aside from actually finding funding)
- # [07:33] <gsnedders> anne: I'd say yes
- # [07:35] <anne> heh, ta; I'll consider it
- # [07:40] <anne> gsnedders, still looking for jobs outside of Oslo, I see? :)
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- # [08:08] <Hixie> anne: if you do go, they're looking for someone to talk about web socket
- # [08:10] <anne> I suppose I'm pretty well informed on that, though not as much as you :)
- # [08:13] <MikeSmith> Hixie: you're not planning to be there?
- # [08:14] <gsnedders> anne: Oh, just looking generally, yeah.
- # [08:14] <gsnedders> anne: I should probably do something about applying for Op though
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- # [08:51] <MikeSmith> action: Michael(tm) to update http://www.w3.org/TR/web-forms-2/ with placeholder doc from gsnedders
- # [08:51] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
- # [08:51] <trackbot> Created ACTION-112 - Update http://www.w3.org/TR/web-forms-2/ with placeholder doc from gsnedders [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2009-03-03].
- # [08:51] <pimpbot> Title: Web Forms 2.0 (at www.w3.org)
- # [08:51] <pimpbot> Title: Web Forms 2.0 (at www.w3.org)
- # [08:51] <MikeSmith> action-112?
- # [08:51] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-112
- # [08:51] <trackbot> ACTION-112 -- Michael(tm) Smith to update http://www.w3.org/TR/web-forms-2/ with placeholder doc from gsnedders -- due 2009-03-03 -- OPEN
- # [08:51] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/112
- # [08:51] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-112 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
- # [09:00] * gsnedders has his name highlighted three times and jumps in fear
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- # [09:25] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-web-forms-2-20090226/
- # [09:25] <pimpbot> Title: Web Forms 2.0 (at www.w3.org)
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- # [10:03] <Hixie> MikeSmith: i don't endorse the pay to play model
- # [10:04] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I don't understand the context
- # [10:05] <Hixie> being at the ietf meeting
- # [10:05] <anne> IETF has fees?
- # [10:05] <anne> o_O
- # [10:05] <MikeSmith> or do you mean the travel costs?
- # [10:11] <Hixie> isn't there a fee to participate in the bofs?
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- # [10:38] <MikeSmith> Hixie: dunno about fees
- # [10:39] <MikeSmith> I know nothing about how the IETF does the f2f meetins
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- # [11:49] <Julian> Mike, see https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf74/ietfreg.py
- # [11:49] <pimpbot> Title: IETF Registration System (at www.ietf.org)
- # [11:50] <Julian> Hixie, it's not really different from W3C, except if you happen to be Invited Expert.
- # [11:50] <Hixie> that's a pretty big difference :-)
- # [11:53] <MikeSmith> Julian: thanks for the info
- # [11:54] <MikeSmith> action-108?
- # [11:54] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-108
- # [11:54] <trackbot> ACTION-108 -- Larry Masinter to ask the TAG to consider HTML in particular in its work on versioning -- due 2009-03-30 -- OPEN
- # [11:54] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/108
- # [11:54] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-108 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
- # [12:00] <Julian> Hixie, it's a different financing model. The IETF has meeting fees, the W3C has membership fees.
- # [12:00] <Hixie> see my comments in #whatwg earlier
- # [12:00] <Julian> Optimally, the IETF would get more voluntary funding from big organisations, so that meeting fees could be reduced...
- # [12:01] <Hixie> optimally, they wouldn't have meetings :-)
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- # [12:01] <Julian> There's no requirement to attend them.
- # [12:02] <anne> what if you want to start new work (I know the Atom example)
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- # [12:16] <MikeSmith> trackbot, close issue-71
- # [12:16] * trackbot attempting to close ISSUE-71.
- # [12:16] <trackbot> ISSUE-71 Test from IRC to see if tracker mail integration working closed
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- # [12:53] <Julian> Anne, yes BOFs require physical attendance
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- # [13:52] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 6618] New: and early on handled in a Gecko/WebKit/Presto-inconsisten way" (1 message in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Feb/0047.html>
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- # [14:51] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: you there?
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- # [14:51] <MikeSmith> wanted to ask what precedents you found for stuff like the WF2 placeholder thing
- # [14:54] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: nm
- # [14:54] <MikeSmith> anne gave it to me
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- # [15:03] <karl> http://www.apple.com/safari/
- # [15:03] <pimpbot> Title: Apple - Safari - Introducing Safari 4 - See the web in a whole new way (at www.apple.com)
- # [15:03] <karl> new version of Safari
- # [15:03] * anne hopes it does cross-origin requests
- # [15:06] <MikeSmith> excellent
- # [15:07] * myakura surprised that it now has a native look for Windows
- # [15:09] <karl> hmm
- # [15:10] * karl sees dick contests again on performances. sigh
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- # [15:10] <rubys> "For Mac + PC" Sigh.
- # [15:10] <karl> that too :)
- # [15:11] <rubys> I have a PC. I wish that they would say what that really mean: for OSX and Windows.
- # [15:11] <karl> interesting things the browsers have a tendency to melt more and more the borders of UI habits between the browser and the desktop, such as cover flow for example for safari
- # [15:12] <Philip> "Nitro Engine" - did they think a name like "SquirrelFish Extreme" was not good for marketing?
- # [15:12] <karl> HTML 4.01 Support
- # [15:13] <karl> Safari supports HTML 4.01, the authoring language that defines the structure and layout of web documents.
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- # [15:14] * karl sees another dick contest
- # [15:14] <karl> Safari is the first — and only — web browser to pass Acid 3. Acid 3 tests a browser’s ability to fully render pages using the web standards used to build dynamic, next-generation websites, including CSS, JavaScript, XML, and SVG.
- # [15:15] * Philip likes it when browsers compete on performance and standards support
- # [15:15] <anne> heh, I like how they emphasize "and only"
- # [15:15] <karl> Websites can now deliver rich, interactive media as easily as they deliver images. The first browser to support HTML 5 audio and video tags, Safari helps developers create media-rich sites that don’t require additional plug-ins. The media tags also offer a rich scripting API, allowing developers to create powerful new controls as well as controls that match the style of the page.
- # [15:16] <karl> anne: yep the - and only - is… :)
- # [15:17] * hsivonen keeps wondering why some users prefer ClearType over Apple's proper AA
- # [15:17] <hsivonen> "To provide a consistent Windows experience, Safari now uses Windows standard fonts, but you can choose to use Apple’s crisp anti-aliased fonts if you prefer."
- # [15:19] <hsivonen> karl: aren't perf 'dick constests' good for users?
- # [15:19] <karl> hsivonen: I have no binary answer to that.
- # [15:21] <Philip> hsivonen: Maybe because people get used to how text looks on Windows, and so Apple's version just looks weird and distracting
- # [15:25] <karl> hsivonen: the issue is not about better fonts, but as Philip said habits. It's hard for a user to switch users experience in between two paradigms all the time. I remember when the aliasing had been introduced on the mac, it took me times to adjust.
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- # [15:26] <hsivonen> true, consistency is the key
- # [15:27] <hsivonen> however, ClearType sucks for @font-face, because Linux & Mac -oriented Free fonts don't necessarily have ClearType-friendly hinting
- # [15:36] <karl> aria support good
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- # [15:57] * DanC finds the summary thread kinda interesting...
- # [15:57] * jgraham would like to have the coherence of thought and time to respond to that properly
- # [15:59] * anne puts time in other things
- # [15:59] <DanC> well, the S/N ratio of the thread is pretty good (considering the history) so far
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- # [16:24] * jgraham thinks that gun control anaologies are probably best avoided when discussing already controversial topics :)
- # [16:24] <jgraham> analogies
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- # [16:28] <Philip> Maybe use of the summary attribute should be encouraged in some countries and illegal in others
- # [16:38] <jgraham> @Summaries don't kill people, people do. And monkeys do too (if they've got an @summary)
- # [16:38] <pimpbot> jgraham: Huh?
- # [16:43] <anne> pimpbot, get AI complete will you?
- # [16:43] <pimpbot> anne: Huh?
- # [16:44] <anne> figures
- # [16:48] <Dashiva> jgraham: Now add in the law of attraction
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- # [18:54] <karl> http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/02/24/Cataloging-Venial-Sins
- # [18:54] <pimpbot> Title: Sam Ruby: Cataloging Venial Sins (at intertwingly.net)
- # [18:55] <karl> I wonder how you define error handling without conformance. As in you don't know what it should be
- # [18:56] <pimpbot> planet: Cataloging Venial Sins <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/02/24/Cataloging-Venial-Sins>
- # [18:57] <rubys1> karl: i think this is different than grammar, as in "noun+verb=sentence".
- # [18:58] <rubys1> It is more like "last year, font was in fashion, this year we prefer style"
- # [19:00] <karl> dans mon dictionnaire, cela s'appelle "usage ancien".
- # [19:00] <karl> in my dictionnary, this is called "old usage".
- # [19:03] <karl> it's why we had deprecated and obsolete in old specifications no?
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- # [23:20] <karl> http://280atlas.com/
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- # [23:34] <DanC> ACTION DanC: get Sam and Chris to look at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34786/TPAC2009/
- # [23:34] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
- # [23:34] <trackbot> Created ACTION-113 - Get Sam and Chris to look at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34786/TPAC2009/ [on Dan Connolly - due 2009-03-03].
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- # Session Close: Wed Feb 25 00:00:00 2009
The end :)