/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-04-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Apr 02 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  16. # [02:32] <MikeSmith> @bugmail
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  24. # [03:09] <MikeSmith> @bugmail
  25. # [03:09] <pimpbot> MikeSmith: Error: '' is not a valid url.
  26. # [03:09] <MikeSmith> @planet
  27. # [03:09] <pimpbot> MikeSmith: Media Cache <http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2009/04/media_cache.html> ** This Week in HTML 5 - Episode 25 <http://blog.whatwg.org/this-week-in-html-5-episode-25> ** iPhone WebApp cache <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/701087/iphone-webapp-cache> ** Mozilla Project Meeting Minutes: 2009-03-30 <http://blog.mozilla.com/meeting-notes/archives/157> ** WebKitGTK+ 1.1.4 (16 more messages)
  28. # [03:10] <MikeSmith> @more
  29. # [03:10] <pimpbot> MikeSmith: released! <http://blog.kov.eti.br/?p=65> ** Shrinking HTML5 some more <http://annevankesteren.nl/2009/03/more-shrinking-html5> ** Validator.nu HTML Parser 1.2.0 <http://blog.whatwg.org/validatornu-html-parser-120> ** The Validator.nu HTML Parser <http://about.validator.nu/htmlparser/> ** Informal HTML / HTTPbis Meeting <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/03/26/Informal-HTML- (15 more messages)
  30. # [03:10] <MikeSmith> @more
  31. # [03:10] <pimpbot> MikeSmith: HTTPbis-Meeting> ** Canvas 3D, standards, and where <http://almaer.com/blog/canvas-3d-standards-and-where> ** 3D on the Web <http://blog.mozilla.com/standards/2009/03/25/3d-on-the-web/> ** A rough view of the future <http://www.w3.org/QA/2009/03/a_rough_view_of_the_future.html> ** 3D on the Web: It’s Go Time <http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/> ** (14 more messages)
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  33. # [03:14] <MikeSmith> http://esw.w3.org/topic/IETF_HTML5_Meeting_March_2009
  34. # [03:14] <pimpbot> Title: IETF HTML5 Meeting March 2009 - ESW Wiki (at esw.w3.org)
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  41. # [06:41] <pimpbot> planet: This Week in HTML 5 - Episode 26 <http://blog.whatwg.org/this-week-in-html-5-episode-26> ** Making Prototypes with Canvas <http://jonoscript.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/making-prototypes-with-canvas/>
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  52. # [09:29] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/attachment.cgi?id=72
  53. # [09:29] <MikeSmith> when you got time
  54. # [09:30] <MikeSmith> added the warning for the <label>s
  55. # [09:30] <MikeSmith> but reporting the wrong location
  56. # [09:31] <MikeSmith> it's reporting the location of each offending descendant
  57. # [09:31] <MikeSmith> instead of the location of the <label>
  58. # [09:31] <MikeSmith> I'm trying to clue myself about what I'm doing wrong there
  59. # [09:33] <MikeSmith> as far as I can see I'm putting the <label> node and locator objects into the map the right way
  60. # [09:34] <MikeSmith> and the nodes I'm trying to report the location of are definitely those same <label> nodes
  61. # [09:35] <MikeSmith> but getValue() and get(node) seem to be giving me the locator for the descendants instead
  62. # [09:35] <MikeSmith> unless I'm misunderstanding something about how Locator works
  63. # [09:35] <MikeSmith> or sax
  64. # [09:47] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: looks good
  65. # [09:47] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: except the line/column numbers it's reporting are wrong
  66. # [09:47] <hsivonen> oops. that might be my bug
  67. # [09:47] <hsivonen> blush
  68. # [09:48] <hsivonen> instead of .put(child, getDocumentLocator()); it should put a copy of the locator in the map
  69. # [09:48] <MikeSmith> aha
  70. # [09:48] <hsivonen> I have a class for that purpose around somewhere
  71. # [09:49] <MikeSmith> OK, I'll poke around and look
  72. # [09:49] <MikeSmith> unless you point me to it first
  73. # [09:49] <hsivonen> org.whattf.checker.LocatorImpl
  74. # [09:49] <MikeSmith> ah yeah
  75. # [09:49] <hsivonen> sorry about that
  76. # [09:50] <MikeSmith> no problem
  77. # [09:51] <MikeSmith> I didn't mess around with it too long, once I realized something weren't quite right
  78. # [09:53] <MikeSmith> when running into insurmountable problems, it's so wonderful to always have a fat backlog of e-mail messages waiting to turn my attention to instead (waiting to be read and responded to)
  79. # [09:54] <MikeSmith> ensures I never have any idle time at all
  80. # [10:16] <hsivonen> whoa. I found a page where HTML5 charset sniffing works better than Gecko charset sniffing: http://digilander.libero.it/comunedifiume/
  81. # [10:16] <pimpbot> Title: Fiume italiana o Fiume d'Italia, Istria (at digilander.libero.it)
  82. # [10:16] <hsivonen> (trying pages at random from Philip's list)
  83. # [10:16] <Hixie> don't sound SO surprised
  84. # [10:16] <Hixie> it's not like i made that algorithm up out of thin air
  85. # [10:18] <hsivonen> Hixie: I expected them to be so close to equivalent that one wouldn't find differences in the real world.
  86. # [10:18] <Hixie> ah ok
  87. # [10:18] <Hixie> :-)
  88. # [10:21] <anne> there's also a page where it works worse
  89. # [10:22] <anne> it euc_kr which is not matched in Gecko and therefore it uses the encoding declared in the page
  90. # [10:22] <anne> it has*
  91. # [10:26] <hsivonen> hmm. I guess my default setting was wrong in the old Gecko parser. that's all
  92. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: so I wrapped that getDocumentLocator() with your LocatorImpl and now it's working as expected
  93. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> my bad, really
  94. # [10:31] <MikeSmith> I looked at your existing code and saw where you used that, but didn't know what LocatorImpl was or understand I needed to use it, so I didn't
  95. # [10:32] <MikeSmith> s/understand/understand why/
  96. # [10:32] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11) (Ping timeout)
  97. # [10:33] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: anyway, any preference on whether I use "for (StackNode node : openLabels.keySet())" or Entry
  98. # [10:33] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  99. # [10:33] <MikeSmith> it's not clear to me that advantage there might be to using Entry for this case
  100. # [10:34] <MikeSmith> but I saw that you had used it elsewhere for similar cases
  101. # [10:36] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: if there's a need to use a value in some case, Map.Entry makes sense
  102. # [10:36] <MikeSmith> OK
  103. # [10:36] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: whether it makes perf difference either way depends on the implementation of the Map
  104. # [10:36] <MikeSmith> I see
  105. # [10:37] <hsivonen> I haven't inspected how the impl actually works in OpenJDK
  106. # [10:38] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK, I'll just keep it as Map.Entry
  107. # [10:38] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: btw, your Checker.warn outputs this in GNU format:
  108. # [10:38] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  109. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> "info warning: “label” element with multiple labelable descendants."
  110. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> that is, "info warning" instead of just "info" or "warn"
  111. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> not sure if that's by design...
  112. # [10:39] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I can't remember.
  113. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> I'll look and see if there's any comment
  114. # [10:39] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: it could be by cunning forward-compatible but GCC incompatible design
  115. # [10:40] * hsivonen looks up documentation
  116. # [10:41] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: it's by design, but the design may suck
  117. # [10:41] <hsivonen> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Validator.nu_GNU_Output
  118. # [10:41] <pimpbot> Title: Validator.nu GNU Output - WHATWG Wiki (at wiki.whatwg.org)
  119. # [10:41] <hsivonen> forward-compatible processing model, and stuff
  120. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK, I think it's fine if it's intentional. just wasn't sure til now if it was
  121. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I'm reminded that we are waiting for RMS to make some decision about the quoting issue
  122. # [10:43] <MikeSmith> I think it's been like a month or so again since I last e-mailed them about it
  123. # [10:43] <hsivonen> I'm ok with waiting for another month at this point
  124. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> OK
  125. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> hmm, I need to remember to (re)read http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Validator.nu_GNU_Output next time before bugging you about something you probably already have documented there
  126. # [10:45] <pimpbot> Title: Validator.nu GNU Output - WHATWG Wiki (at wiki.whatwg.org)
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  128. # [10:53] <MikeSmith> @bugmail
  129. # [10:53] <pimpbot> MikeSmith: Error: '' is not a valid url.
  130. # [11:03] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: so, OK if I go ahead and commit that last <label> patch?
  131. # [11:04] <MikeSmith> only substantive change I made after what you reviewed was to add LocatorImpl
  132. # [11:20] * Disconnected
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  134. # [11:20] * Rejoined channel #html-wg
  135. # [11:20] * Topic is 'HTML WG 12 Mar http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2009JanMar/0041.html (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ )'
  136. # [11:20] * Set by DanC on Thu Mar 12 17:00:49
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  138. # [11:21] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: thanks for your guidance and patience with my boneheaded questions
  139. # [11:49] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  140. # [11:52] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: btw, I notice this when building:
  141. # [11:52] <MikeSmith> tests/html5full-xhtml/invalid/007.xhtmlwas supposed to be invalid but was not.
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  143. # [12:23] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: my fault
  144. # [12:25] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: bad/out-of-date test? or schema miss?
  145. # [12:27] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: schema miss with IMO silly spec
  146. # [12:28] <hsivonen> I'll remove the test now that datagrid is in a grayed state anyway
  147. # [12:29] <hsivonen> zapped
  148. # [12:29] <MikeSmith> cool
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  151. # [14:26] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/attachment.cgi?id=73
  152. # [14:26] <MikeSmith> patch for "remove repetition-template handling from Assertions.java"
  153. # [14:29] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.30)
  154. # [14:48] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: looks good
  155. # [14:50] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: k
  156. # [14:50] <MikeSmith> smoke-tested
  157. # [14:51] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I guess I ought to take a look at your test setup
  158. # [14:51] <MikeSmith> and submit tests for changes
  159. # [14:53] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: python scripts in the 'validator' svn repo
  160. # [14:53] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK
  161. # [14:55] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Connection reset by peer)
  162. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: no so much tests so far?
  163. # [14:56] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: no
  164. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> wonder about copping some of zcorpan tests
  165. # [15:01] <hsivonen> entering expected results of zcorpan's tests in the JSON db seems like a good idea
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  182. # [17:40] <ChrisWilson> Zakim, this will be html
  183. # [17:40] <Zakim> ok, ChrisWilson; I see HTML_WG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
  184. # [17:46] <gsnedders> ChrisWilson: You see my DM, or do you not look at DMs? :)
  185. # [17:49] <ChrisWilson> @gsnedders u mean that wasn't an April Fools? :) yes, I did see, and will hook up an email thread.
  186. # [17:49] <pimpbot> ChrisWilson: Huh?
  187. # [17:49] <gsnedders> :)
  188. # [17:50] * gsnedders knows some people who ignore DMs, so he thought he better check
  189. # [17:52] <shepazu> I never ignore a DM, that's a good way to get your character attacked by a Mind Flayer or a dragon
  190. # [17:52] * jgraham has no idea what a DM is if it isn't a type of boot
  191. # [17:52] * Philip prefers CTF to DM
  192. # [17:55] <ChrisWilson> shepazu: I never see someone say DM without thinking that.
  193. # [17:55] <shepazu> ChrisWilson: nerd
  194. # [17:55] <ChrisWilson> jgraham: DM=direct message (on Twitter)
  195. # [17:55] * Joins: smedero (smedero@66.114.145.154)
  196. # [17:55] <ChrisWilson> shepazu: I prefer geek, thank you very much. I'm every so slightly too cool to be a nerd. Anymore. I swear.
  197. # [17:56] <ChrisWilson> shepazu: I don't OWN any D&D stuff anymore. Well, except for my miniatures. And the first edition. And the costumes. :)
  198. # [17:57] <shepazu> ChrisWilson: I would totally play a D&D game, if I knew of a good one around me... these days, it's just weekly boardgames with my old gaming pals
  199. # [17:58] <ChrisWilson> shepazu: ...and you could give it up any time, right?
  200. # [17:58] <ChrisWilson> 3
  201. # [17:58] * Joins: masinter (user@192.150.10.200)
  202. # [17:59] * ChrisWilson oh dear, now I'll start another numbers thread. Darn switchbox.
  203. # [17:59] <shepazu> ChrisWilson: yeah, any time I want to
  204. # [18:00] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has now started
  205. # [18:00] <Zakim> + +1.408.536.aaaa
  206. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Julian
  207. # [18:00] <shepazu> it's all about having time to do it... "Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn"
  208. # [18:00] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  209. # [18:00] <masinter> 408.536.aaaa is Adobe, and it's me
  210. # [18:00] * shepazu Zakim, call shepazu
  211. # [18:00] * Zakim ok, shepazu; the call is being made
  212. # [18:00] <ChrisWilson> zakim, microsoft is me.
  213. # [18:00] <Zakim> +ChrisWilson; got it
  214. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Shepazu
  215. # [18:00] <ChrisWilson> zakim, aaaa is masinter
  216. # [18:00] <Zakim> +masinter; got it
  217. # [18:01] * Joins: aroben (aroben@71.58.77.15)
  218. # [18:02] <Zakim> + +1.484.802.aabb
  219. # [18:02] <smedero> Zakim, +1.484.802.aabb is me
  220. # [18:02] <Zakim> +smedero; got it
  221. # [18:02] <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Keio-617
  222. # [18:02] <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
  223. # [18:02] <Zakim> +Keio
  224. # [18:02] <ChrisWilson> Agenda+ ask for scribe
  225. # [18:02] * Zakim notes agendum 1 added
  226. # [18:03] <MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
  227. # [18:03] * trackbot is starting a teleconference
  228. # [18:03] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  229. # [18:03] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/04/02-html-wg-irc
  230. # [18:03] <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
  231. # [18:03] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, trackbot
  232. # [18:03] <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML
  233. # [18:03] <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
  234. # [18:03] <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
  235. # [18:03] <trackbot> Date: 02 April 2009
  236. # [18:03] <ChrisWilson> agenda+ ask for additional issues
  237. # [18:03] * Zakim notes agendum 2 added
  238. # [18:03] <ChrisWilson> agenda+ discuss open/pending review items
  239. # [18:03] * Zakim notes agendum 3 added
  240. # [18:03] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.202.35.52)
  241. # [18:03] <ChrisWilson> agenda+ discuss overdue actions
  242. # [18:03] * Zakim notes agendum 4 added
  243. # [18:03] * ChrisWilson has a hard stop at 10:00, btw.
  244. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  245. # [18:03] <ChrisWilson> zakim, who is here?
  246. # [18:03] <Zakim> On the phone I see masinter, Julian, ChrisWilson, Shepazu, smedero, Keio, [Apple]
  247. # [18:04] <Zakim> On IRC I see dsinger, RRSAgent, aroben, masinter, smedero, Zakim, ChrisWilson, MichaelC, dbaron, shepazu, Julian, maddiin, krijn, ROBOd, gavin_, heycam, tH, pimpbot, phenny,
  248. # [18:04] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  249. # [18:04] <Zakim> ... MikeSmith, xover, nico, anne, drry, sryo1, deltab, timelyx, DanC, karl, Dashiva, gsnedders, hober, gavin, jmb, Philip, jgraham, hsivonen, Hixie, wilhelm, ed_work, inimino,
  250. # [18:04] <Zakim> ... trackbot, Yudai
  251. # [18:04] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  252. # [18:04] * Parts: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190) (8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  253. # [18:04] <ChrisWilson> zakim, take up item 1
  254. # [18:04] <Zakim> agendum 1. "ask for scribe" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
  255. # [18:04] <MikeSmith> Zakim, Keio has MikeSmith
  256. # [18:04] <Zakim> +MikeSmith; got it
  257. # [18:04] <ChrisWilson> zakim, pick a scribe
  258. # [18:04] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Shepazu
  259. # [18:04] * Joins: rubys1 (rubys@75.182.92.38)
  260. # [18:05] <MikeSmith> shepazu: ↑
  261. # [18:05] <Zakim> +Sam
  262. # [18:05] * Julian wants lunch as well
  263. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> zakim, pick a scribe
  264. # [18:06] <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose smedero
  265. # [18:06] <smedero> sure
  266. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> Thanks Shawn
  267. # [18:06] <MikeSmith> scribenick: smedero
  268. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> zakim, close item 1
  269. # [18:06] <Zakim> agendum 1, ask for scribe, closed
  270. # [18:06] <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
  271. # [18:06] <Zakim> 2. ask for additional issues [from ChrisWilson]
  272. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> zakin, take up 2
  273. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> zakin, take up item 2
  274. # [18:06] <MikeSmith> scribe: ShawnMedero
  275. # [18:06] <Julian> m
  276. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> zakim, take up 2
  277. # [18:06] <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up 2', ChrisWilson
  278. # [18:06] <ChrisWilson> zakim, take up item 2
  279. # [18:07] <Zakim> agendum 2. "ask for additional issues" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
  280. # [18:07] <ChrisWilson> zakim, close item 2
  281. # [18:07] <Zakim> agendum 2, ask for additional issues, closed
  282. # [18:07] <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
  283. # [18:07] <Zakim> 3. discuss open/pending review items [from ChrisWilson]
  284. # [18:07] <ChrisWilson> zakim, take up item 3
  285. # [18:07] <Zakim> agendum 3. "discuss open/pending review items" taken up [from ChrisWilson]
  286. # [18:07] <ChrisWilson> issue-54, action-103?
  287. # [18:08] <ChrisWilson> action-103?
  288. # [18:08] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-103
  289. # [18:08] <trackbot> ACTION-103 -- Lachlan Hunt to track registration of about: URI scheme -- due 2009-03-17 -- OPEN
  290. # [18:08] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/103
  291. # [18:08] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-103 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  292. # [18:08] <Julian> q+
  293. # [18:08] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  294. # [18:08] * shepazu notes http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090331#l-336
  295. # [18:08] <smedero> masinter: There's something wrong with this action item, it is not clear who is tracking it
  296. # [18:08] <pimpbot> Title: IRC logs: freenode / #whatwg / 20090331 (at krijnhoetmer.nl)
  297. # [18:09] * smedero sees http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Mar/0094.html
  298. # [18:09] <rubys1> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-holsten-about-uri-scheme-00.
  299. # [18:09] <pimpbot> Title: draft-holsten-about-uri-scheme-00 - The 'about' URI scheme (at tools.ietf.org)
  300. # [18:10] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  301. # [18:10] * rubys1 is now known as rubys
  302. # [18:10] <smedero> Julian: There were a few issues raised with the draft and no revised draft has been submitted yet
  303. # [18:11] <Julian> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-holsten-about-uri-scheme-00
  304. # [18:11] <pimpbot> Title: draft-holsten-about-uri-scheme-00 - The 'about' URI scheme (at tools.ietf.org)
  305. # [18:11] <rubys> q+
  306. # [18:11] * Zakim sees Julian, rubys on the speaker queue
  307. # [18:11] <Julian> q-
  308. # [18:11] * Zakim sees rubys on the speaker queue
  309. # [18:11] <masinter> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/uri-review/current/maillist.html
  310. # [18:11] <pimpbot> Title: Proposed URI Schemes Discussion List (at www.ietf.org)
  311. # [18:11] <ChrisWilson> ack Julian
  312. # [18:11] * Zakim sees rubys on the speaker queue
  313. # [18:11] <ChrisWilson> ack rubys
  314. # [18:11] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  315. # [18:11] <smedero> Topic: about: URI scheme
  316. # [18:12] <shepazu> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090331#l-336
  317. # [18:12] <smedero> rubys: Do we want to address Henri Sivonen's objection?
  318. # [18:12] * Joins: LHSilli (chatzilla@84.208.110.159)
  319. # [18:13] <Julian> I think the title is fine.
  320. # [18:13] <smedero> s/objection/concerns/
  321. # [18:13] <masinter> Send a copy of the template or a pointer to the containing
  322. # [18:13] <masinter> document (with specific reference to the section with the
  323. # [18:13] <masinter> template) to the mailing list uri-review@ietf.org, requesting
  324. # [18:13] <masinter> review. In addition, request review on other mailing lists as
  325. # [18:13] <masinter> appropriate. For example, general discussion of URI syntactical
  326. # [18:13] <masinter> issues could be discussed on uri@w3.org; schemes for a network
  327. # [18:13] <masinter> protocol could be discussed on a mailing list for that protocol.
  328. # [18:14] <masinter> Allow a reasonable time for discussion and comments. Four weeks
  329. # [18:14] <masinter> is reasonable for a permanent registration requests.
  330. # [18:14] <Julian> q+
  331. # [18:14] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  332. # [18:14] <masinter> \]
  333. # [18:14] <shepazu> [I note this is not a very inclusive definition of "the WG", whereas he and all of the browser vendors are in the WG]
  334. # [18:14] <ChrisWilson> ack j
  335. # [18:14] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  336. # [18:15] <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
  337. # [18:15] <smedero> rrsagent, draft minutes
  338. # [18:15] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/02-html-wg-minutes.html smedero
  339. # [18:15] <masinter> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4395.txt
  340. # [18:15] * shepazu waves at Cynthia
  341. # [18:16] <smedero> ChrisWilson: I'm confused here, because we have come with a solution that doesn't require further changes in the spec
  342. # [18:16] <smedero> ChrisWilson: Until the registration of the about: URI scheme is completed
  343. # [18:17] <smedero> masinter: There is a change to the spec but it is pending some other action
  344. # [18:17] <smedero> Sam: The change to the spec has happened
  345. # [18:18] <smedero> masinter: Ok I remember, the change to spec happened and was conditional on the about: URI scheme registration being completed.
  346. # [18:18] <smedero> ChrisWilson: So an email has not been sent yet to complete the registration?
  347. # [18:19] * Julian has followed up on the mailing list
  348. # [18:19] <smedero> ChrisWilson: I will update the action title and move it to next week
  349. # [18:19] <ChrisWilson> action-68?
  350. # [18:19] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-68
  351. # [18:19] <trackbot> ACTION-68 -- Dan Connolly to try factoring URI/URL stuff out as a separate draft -- due 2009-03-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW
  352. # [18:19] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/68
  353. # [18:19] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-68 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  354. # [18:20] <smedero> Topic: ACTION-68 - factoring URI/URL stuff out as a separate draft
  355. # [18:20] <smedero> masinter: There was discussion of this at the IETF meeting last week
  356. # [18:20] <smedero> masinter: There's been some discussion on the list about merging this with the IRI or URI spec
  357. # [18:21] <masinter> action-118?
  358. # [18:21] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-118
  359. # [18:21] <trackbot> ACTION-118 -- Dan Connolly to reformat the document on URLs in HTML 5 as an Internet Draft -- due 2009-04-06 -- OPEN
  360. # [18:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/118
  361. # [18:21] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-118 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  362. # [18:21] <ChrisWilson> action-72?
  363. # [18:21] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-72
  364. # [18:21] <trackbot> ACTION-72 -- Sam Ruby to monitor progress of testing re 20 Dec HTML 5 spec draft and test materials from WCAG 2 -- due 2009-03-26 -- OPEN
  365. # [18:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/72
  366. # [18:21] <smedero> Sam: I suggest we close out ACTION-68 and leave ACTION-118 open
  367. # [18:21] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-72 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  368. # [18:22] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  369. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> I suggest just closing that
  370. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> it was about headers
  371. # [18:23] <smedero> Topic: ACTION-72: monitor progress of testing table-headers re 20 Dec HTML 5 spec draft and test materials from WCAG 2
  372. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> somebody retitled it
  373. # [18:23] <ChrisWilson> q?
  374. # [18:23] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  375. # [18:23] <smedero> Sam: I suggested we closed this and DanC had some concerns surrounding the test materials.
  376. # [18:23] <MikeSmith> I would just close it and let Dan re-open it if he objects
  377. # [18:23] <smedero> ChrisWilson: Lets leave it up to DanC to decide whether to close it or make it something actionable.
  378. # [18:24] <ChrisWilson> action-99?
  379. # [18:24] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-99
  380. # [18:24] <trackbot> ACTION-99 -- Sam Ruby to review @profile -- due 2009-03-26 -- OPEN
  381. # [18:24] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/99
  382. # [18:24] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-99 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  383. # [18:24] <jgraham> Since nothing else has blocked on tests, it seems strange for this one issue to do so
  384. # [18:24] <smedero> Topic: ACTION-99 - Review @profile
  385. # [18:25] <ChrisWilson> action-108?
  386. # [18:25] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-108
  387. # [18:25] <trackbot> ACTION-108 -- Larry Masinter to ask the TAG to consider HTML in particular in its work on versioning -- due 2009-03-30 -- OPEN
  388. # [18:25] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/108
  389. # [18:25] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-108 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  390. # [18:25] <smedero> Topic: ACTION-108 - Ask the TAG to consider HTML in particular in its work on versioning
  391. # [18:26] * smedero loathes pimpbot during telecons
  392. # [18:26] <smedero> masinter: I did bring this up with the TAG. Most of the discussion has been without a framework to discuss alternatives
  393. # [18:27] * Quits: pimpbot (pimpbot@80.68.92.65) (Client exited)
  394. # [18:27] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  395. # [18:27] <smedero> masinter: I don't mind keeping the action open and changing the title.
  396. # [18:27] <ChrisWilson> action-114?
  397. # [18:27] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-114
  398. # [18:27] <trackbot> ACTION-114 -- Cynthia Shelly to report progress on ARIA TF due 26 Mar 2009 -- due 2009-03-26 -- OPEN
  399. # [18:27] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/114
  400. # [18:27] <smedero> ChrisWilson: I'll move it out two weeks and change the title to say "Report back..."
  401. # [18:28] <smedero> Cynthia_Shelly: I am going to put a placeholder for the API mapping draft up this afternoon
  402. # [18:29] <smedero> Cynthia_Shelly: We're having status meetings every two weeks
  403. # [18:29] <ChrisWilson> action-115?
  404. # [18:29] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-115
  405. # [18:29] <trackbot> ACTION-115 -- Dan Connolly to set up WBS for HTML WG participants to @@ reTPAC 2009 -- due 2009-04-07 -- OPEN
  406. # [18:29] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/115
  407. # [18:29] <smedero> ChrisWilson: I don't know that DanC actually did this
  408. # [18:29] <ChrisWilson> action-116?
  409. # [18:29] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-116
  410. # [18:29] <trackbot> ACTION-116 -- Michael(tm) Smith to coordinate review of current H:TML draft -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN
  411. # [18:29] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/116
  412. # [18:30] <ChrisWilson> action-117?
  413. # [18:30] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-117
  414. # [18:30] <trackbot> ACTION-117 -- Doug Schepers to get svg working group to propose specific text -- due 2009-03-26 -- OPEN
  415. # [18:30] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/117
  416. # [18:30] <smedero> MikeSmith: I think this is a duplicate of another action item
  417. # [18:30] <smedero> Shepazu: We followed through on this but the editor doesn't like to work that way
  418. # [18:31] <smedero> Shepazu: The SVG WG has decided it is not good use of time to discuss things just on our mailing list or telecons. It is faster to cross-post our threads to HTML.
  419. # [18:31] <smedero> Shepazu: We spent a lot of time putting the proposal together and we didn't feel like it was a good use of our time
  420. # [18:32] <smedero> Sam: So this action is done?
  421. # [18:32] <smedero> Shepazu: Yes, though the larger topic is still ongoing
  422. # [18:32] <Julian> We have http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/37
  423. # [18:32] <smedero> issue-37?
  424. # [18:32] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-37
  425. # [18:32] <trackbot> ISSUE-37 -- Integration of SVG and MathML into text/html -- OPEN
  426. # [18:32] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/37
  427. # [18:33] <smedero> ChrisWilson: I'm under the impression that the SVG WG isn't happy with the current draft
  428. # [18:33] <smedero> Shepazu: It is not that we're not happy with the current draft but there are certain changes we'd like to see made.
  429. # [18:33] <smedero> Shepazu: We're just not sure how to move forward
  430. # [18:34] <smedero> Shepazu: The only way we see things moving is if a browser vendor comes forward and notes implementation issues
  431. # [18:34] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
  432. # [18:35] <smedero> masinter: That's your prediction of the future given past behavior of this working group?
  433. # [18:36] <smedero> Shepazu: That's the way I see it working
  434. # [18:37] * Joins: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30)
  435. # [18:37] <smedero> Shepazu: I think the larger goal of trying to get SVG into HTML is what we are all working for... some of the details may not be the way HTML WG or SVG WG would like.
  436. # [18:37] <smedero> Shepazu: Implementation experience tends to carry a lot of weight in this group
  437. # [18:38] <smedero> ChrisWilson: Sounds like we should close this action item.
  438. # [18:38] <smedero> masinter: Is there a way we could encourage implementations
  439. # [18:39] <smedero> Shepazu: There is implementation work. Henri Sivonen is working on updating his parser
  440. # [18:39] <smedero> Shepazu: I could outline in a wiki some work that the SVG WG think needs to be done to test performance issues
  441. # [18:40] <smedero> Shepazu: The existing action is done though.
  442. # [18:40] <ChrisWilson> issue-20?
  443. # [18:40] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-20
  444. # [18:40] <trackbot> ISSUE-20 -- Improvements to the table-headers algorithm in the HTML 5 spec -- RAISED
  445. # [18:40] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/20
  446. # [18:40] <masinter> will we raise a new action to track the implementaiton work?
  447. # [18:40] <jmb> fwiw, hubbub (http://netsurf-browser.org/projects/hubbub) supports the SVG parsing parts of the current specification
  448. # [18:41] <ChrisWilson> masinter: if you can come up with an actionable action, go ahead and file it
  449. # [18:41] <smedero> Topic: ISSUE-20 table-headers
  450. # [18:41] <shepazu> s/Henri Sivonen is working on updating his parser/Henri Sivonen is working on a parser for Mozilla/
  451. # [18:42] * smedero thanks shepazu because shepazu talks rather fast
  452. # [18:42] * shepazu pats smedero on the back for good scribing
  453. # [18:42] <ChrisWilson> has anyone reviewed the spec changes for th/td association, wrt issue-20?
  454. # [18:42] <smedero> wasn't this the point of DanC's action?
  455. # [18:42] * shepazu @smedero, I think you captured the essence well
  456. # [18:42] <smedero> to write and run tests on table-headers...
  457. # [18:43] <smedero> ACTION-72?
  458. # [18:43] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-72
  459. # [18:43] <trackbot> ACTION-72 -- Sam Ruby to monitor progress of testing re 20 Dec HTML 5 spec draft and test materials from WCAG 2 -- due 2009-04-09 -- OPEN
  460. # [18:43] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/72
  461. # [18:44] * Joins: adele (adele@17.246.18.119)
  462. # [18:44] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
  463. # [18:45] <ChrisWilson> issue-52?
  464. # [18:45] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-52
  465. # [18:45] <trackbot> ISSUE-52 -- Respond to XHTML2 WG objections to language in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1 -- RAISED
  466. # [18:45] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/52
  467. # [18:46] <smedero> Topic: ISSUE-52 - Respond to XHTML2 WG objections to language in HTML5 draft regarding XHTML1
  468. # [18:46] <Julian> q+
  469. # [18:46] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  470. # [18:46] <smedero> ChrisWilson: You filed this initially, do you have an update?
  471. # [18:47] <ChrisWilson> ack j
  472. # [18:47] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  473. # [18:47] <smedero> MikeSmith: Things have happened since this issue has opened that invalidate this issue
  474. # [18:47] <ChrisWilson> s/You/MikeSmith, you
  475. # [18:47] <smedero> s/since this issue has opened/since this issue was opened/
  476. # [18:48] <ChrisWilson> issue-72?
  477. # [18:48] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-72
  478. # [18:48] <trackbot> ISSUE-72 -- Need to make it publicly clear that http://www.w3.org/TR/web-forms-2/ is obsoleted by HTML5 -- RAISED
  479. # [18:48] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/72
  480. # [18:49] <smedero> MikeSmith: The placeholder was put up for ISSUE-72, it can be closed out
  481. # [18:49] <ChrisWilson> zakim, agenda?
  482. # [18:49] <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
  483. # [18:49] <Zakim> 3. discuss open/pending review items [from ChrisWilson]
  484. # [18:49] <Zakim> 4. discuss overdue actions [from ChrisWilson]
  485. # [18:49] <ChrisWilson> zakim, close item 3
  486. # [18:49] <Zakim> agendum 3, discuss open/pending review items, closed
  487. # [18:49] <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
  488. # [18:49] <Zakim> 4. discuss overdue actions [from ChrisWilson]
  489. # [18:49] <ChrisWilson> zakim, close item 4
  490. # [18:49] <Zakim> agendum 4, discuss overdue actions, closed
  491. # [18:49] <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
  492. # [18:49] <smedero> rrsagent, draft minutes
  493. # [18:49] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/02-html-wg-minutes.html smedero
  494. # [18:49] <Julian> q+
  495. # [18:49] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  496. # [18:49] <ChrisWilson> any other discussions people want to have?
  497. # [18:49] <ChrisWilson> ack j
  498. # [18:49] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  499. # [18:50] <smedero> Chair: ChrisWilson
  500. # [18:52] <smedero> ( scribe misses a bunch of discussion surrounding whether or not to open an issue concerning this thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Apr/0017.html )
  501. # [18:52] <Julian> I will open an issue.
  502. # [18:52] * smedero apologizes, I got caught up reading it...
  503. # [18:53] * dsinger I guess we need to hear from Microsoft as to why they have not implemented application/ after so long...
  504. # [18:54] <dsinger> q+
  505. # [18:54] * Zakim sees dsinger on the speaker queue
  506. # [18:54] <Julian> q+
  507. # [18:54] * Zakim sees dsinger, Julian on the speaker queue
  508. # [18:55] <ChrisWilson> ack dsinger
  509. # [18:55] * Zakim sees Julian on the speaker queue
  510. # [18:57] * ChrisWilson is just not gonna rise to that.
  511. # [18:57] * masinter forgot it was April 2 and not April 1
  512. # [18:58] <Julian> RFC 4329
  513. # [18:58] <ChrisWilson> ack j
  514. # [18:58] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  515. # [19:04] <Zakim> -masinter
  516. # [19:04] * dsinger byeeeeee
  517. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Keio
  518. # [19:04] <ChrisWilson> bye
  519. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Julian
  520. # [19:04] <Zakim> -ChrisWilson
  521. # [19:04] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  522. # [19:04] <smedero> rrsagent, draft minutes
  523. # [19:04] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/02-html-wg-minutes.html smedero
  524. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
  525. # [19:04] <Zakim> -Sam
  526. # [19:05] <Zakim> -Shepazu
  527. # [19:05] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.202.35.52) (Quit: dsinger)
  528. # [19:07] <smedero> Regrets: DanC, Joshue
  529. # [19:08] * Parts: LHSilli (chatzilla@84.208.110.159)
  530. # [19:08] * Quits: Julian (chatzilla@217.91.35.233) (Connection reset by peer)
  531. # [19:09] * Quits: rubys (rubys@75.182.92.38) (Quit: Leaving.)
  532. # [19:09] <smedero> rrsagent, draft minutes
  533. # [19:09] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/04/02-html-wg-minutes.html smedero
  534. # [19:09] <smedero> rrsagent, make minutes public
  535. # [19:09] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', smedero. Try /msg RRSAgent help
  536. # [19:09] <smedero> rrsagent, make log public
  537. # [19:09] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, smedero
  538. # [19:09] <smedero> rrsagent, bye
  539. # [19:09] <RRSAgent> I see no action items
  540. # [19:09] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30)
  541. # [19:15] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  542. # [19:28] * Quits: smedero (smedero@66.114.145.154) (Quit: smedero)
  543. # [19:29] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.241)
  544. # [19:31] <Zakim> -smedero
  545. # [19:31] <Zakim> HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
  546. # [19:31] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.536.aaaa, Julian, ChrisWilson, Shepazu, masinter, smedero, dsinger, MikeSmith, Sam, Cynthia_Shelly
  547. # [19:31] * Joins: smedero (smedero@66.114.145.154)
  548. # [19:40] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  549. # [21:04] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  550. # [21:04] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  551. # [21:21] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  552. # [21:37] * Joins: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  553. # [22:15] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  554. # [22:19] * Joins: dsinger (mobile@17.246.17.198)
  555. # [22:20] * Quits: dsinger (mobile@17.246.17.198) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://rooms.derflash.de)
  556. # [23:10] * Quits: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30) (Ping timeout)
  557. # Session Close: Fri Apr 03 00:00:00 2009

The end :)