/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-07-31 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Fri Jul 31 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
  3. # [01:01] * Disconnected
  4. # [01:02] * Attempting to rejoin channel #html-wg
  5. # [01:02] * Rejoined channel #html-wg
  6. # [01:02] * Topic is 'Pursuing conformance solutions for the N-body gravitational system known as "the Web", and in general, collectively performing various acts of unparalleled hubris (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/)'
  7. # [01:02] * Set by MikeSmith on Thu Jun 18 07:02:08
  8. # [03:02] * Disconnected
  9. # [03:03] * Attempting to rejoin channel #html-wg
  10. # [03:03] * Rejoined channel #html-wg
  11. # [03:03] * Topic is 'Pursuing conformance solutions for the N-body gravitational system known as "the Web", and in general, collectively performing various acts of unparalleled hubris (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/)'
  12. # [03:03] * Set by MikeSmith on Thu Jun 18 07:02:08
  13. # [03:19] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2009JulSep/thread.html#msg388
  14. # [03:19] <pimpbot> Title: ietf-http-wg@w3.org from July to September 2009: by thread (at lists.w3.org)
  15. # [03:19] <MikeSmith> proposal idea for tab-level cookies
  16. # [03:28] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Add a cautionary note about 8601. (whatwg r3507) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0262.html> ** hixie: Define handling of <listing>, <plaintext>, <acronym>, <xmp>, <dir>. (whatwg r3502) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0261.html> ** hixie: Make <input type=image> a command also. (whatwg r3506) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0260.html
  17. # [03:32] <MikeSmith> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pettersen-cache-context-04
  18. # [03:36] <Dashiva> I love when pimpbot links to non-existent blog posts
  19. # [03:37] <MikeSmith> Dashiva: example?
  20. # [03:38] * MikeSmith finds http://lockshot.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/whats-the-problem-with-ogg-theora/
  21. # [03:39] <Dashiva> Yeah, that's the one
  22. # [03:39] <MikeSmith> so I would guess that's because dude published it, ping went out, then he deleted or renamed it
  23. # [03:40] <MikeSmith> either that or it's the "prediction" feature I added to pimpbot
  24. # [03:40] <MikeSmith> where he imagines/predicts possible future blog postings on particular topics
  25. # [03:40] <Dashiva> Probably the former :)
  26. # [03:41] <Dashiva> Although I suppose it would be possible to predict _some_ blog posts based on how repetitive they can get on certain topics
  27. # [03:41] <MikeSmith> heh
  28. # [03:41] <Dashiva> (Theora, for one)
  29. # [03:41] <MikeSmith> HTML5 vs Flash, another
  30. # [03:44] <Dashiva> Considering the idea that other relevant specifications can define elements, maybe canvas could be completely split out, not just the DOM part of it.
  31. # [03:44] <Dashiva> Would be a nice test of how good the parsing algorithm is at supporting unknown elements
  32. # [03:45] <MikeSmith> I guess if you took that to an extreme, the spec on other new elements could be removed too
  33. # [03:45] <MikeSmith> or even existing elements
  34. # [03:46] * Quits: adele (adele@17.246.19.228) (Quit: adele)
  35. # [03:47] <Dashiva> It should be possible, for future-proofing's sake. But not necessary, since we don't want excessive fragmentation.
  36. # [03:48] <Dashiva> Thinking about the differences between not supporting canvas DOM and not supporting canvas at all, the only difference I can think of is the presence of .width and .height
  37. # [03:49] <MikeSmith> anyway, in general, there are sometimes other good reasons -- other than purely technical ones -- for keeping things together in one spec. At least up to a point.
  38. # [03:50] <MikeSmith> I'm just sayin'
  39. # [03:50] <MikeSmith> would that we could always do things for purely technical reasons
  40. # [03:53] <Dashiva> Hehe
  41. # [03:54] <Dashiva> That could be mighty boring, at least once we build a robo-spec-writer
  42. # [03:55] <MikeSmith> if there were ever a robo spec writer, we would then have to add an entropy feature to it too
  43. # [03:56] <MikeSmith> so that it occasionally made unpredictable and seemingly arbitrary decisions now and then
  44. # [03:57] <MikeSmith> only then would it be able to model the real world
  45. # [03:58] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Clarify what 'completely fetched the entire resource' means... (whatwg r3510) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0265.html> ** hixie: Mention explicitly that type=tel isn't format-checked. (whatwg r3509) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0264.html> ** hixie: fix typos (whatwg r3508) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0263.html>
  46. # [04:00] <MikeSmith> are the any examples of significantly complex specs that have actually been implemented in browsers but that don't have serious flaws or inconsistencies in them?
  47. # [04:06] * MikeSmith notices that deleted post about Theora is from "This blog is written by Harvey Anderson, VP and General Counsel of Mozilla Corporation."
  48. # [04:11] <MikeSmith> Dashiva: anyway, the full text of that blog is currently at http://www.w3.org/html/planet/
  49. # [04:11] <pimpbot> Title: Planet HTML5 (at www.w3.org)
  50. # [04:24] <Dashiva> That's convenient
  51. # [04:34] * Joins: adele (adele@24.7.123.50)
  52. # [04:37] * Quits: adele (adele@24.7.123.50) (Quit: adele)
  53. # [04:53] * Joins: adele (adele@24.7.123.50)
  54. # [04:54] * Quits: adele (adele@24.7.123.50) (Quit: adele)
  55. # [05:58] <pimpbot> planet: <div>Opera Developer Network: <div lang="en-GB" dir="ltr">The HTML 5 experiments</div></div> <http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/show.dml/4195910>
  56. # [06:06] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.226.207.11) (Ping timeout)
  57. # [06:07] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  58. # [07:47] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58) (Client exited)
  59. # [07:49] * Quits: Philip (philip@92.243.11.39) (Ping timeout)
  60. # [07:49] * Joins: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.185.151.94)
  61. # [07:51] * Quits: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org) (Quit: Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.)
  62. # [07:51] * Joins: Philip (philip@92.243.11.39)
  63. # [07:59] <pimpbot> planet: WPS: PostScript and PDF interpreter for HTML 5 canvas <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/-8l-aksnXCI/wps-postscript-and-pdf-interpreter-for-html-5-canvas>
  64. # [08:05] * Joins: MikeSmith (MikeSmith@mcclure.w3.org)
  65. # [08:54] * Joins: J_Voracek (irchon@207.118.12.212)
  66. # [08:54] * Quits: J_Voracek (irchon@207.118.12.212) (Client exited)
  67. # [09:20] * Quits: heycam (cam@130.194.72.84) (Quit: bye)
  68. # [09:20] * Quits: gavin (gavin@99.226.207.11) (Ping timeout)
  69. # [09:26] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  70. # [09:36] * Quits: webben (benh@217.12.15.52) (Ping timeout)
  71. # [09:38] * Joins: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167)
  72. # [09:43] * Disconnected
  73. # [09:44] * Attempting to rejoin channel #html-wg
  74. # [09:44] * Rejoined channel #html-wg
  75. # [09:44] * Topic is 'Pursuing conformance solutions for the N-body gravitational system known as "the Web", and in general, collectively performing various acts of unparalleled hubris (This channel is logged: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/)'
  76. # [09:44] * Set by MikeSmith on Thu Jun 18 07:02:08
  77. # [09:59] <pimpbot> planet: What’s the Problem with Theora? <http://lockshot.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/whats-the-problem-with-ogg-theora/>
  78. # [10:02] * Joins: heycam (cam@124.168.112.102)
  79. # [10:04] * Joins: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44)
  80. # [10:04] * Quits: anne (annevk@83.85.115.44) (Ping timeout)
  81. # [10:09] * Joins: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38)
  82. # [10:11] * Joins: laplink (link@193.157.66.240)
  83. # [10:14] * Quits: timelyx (timeless@88.115.12.126) (Ping timeout)
  84. # [10:15] * Joins: timelyx (timeless@88.115.12.126)
  85. # [10:18] * Quits: timelyx (timeless@88.115.12.126) (Ping timeout)
  86. # [10:23] * Joins: timelyx (timeless@88.115.12.126)
  87. # [10:25] * tlr-longconfcall is now known as tlr
  88. # [10:27] * Quits: timelyx (timeless@88.115.12.126) (Ping timeout)
  89. # [10:28] * Quits: Zeros (Zeros-Elip@67.185.151.94) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  90. # [10:35] * Joins: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.22)
  91. # [10:53] * Joins: webben (benh@217.12.14.240)
  92. # [11:00] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Apparently <xmp> was more like <pre> than <code>. It's all before my time... (whatwg r3511) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0268.html> ** "mike: added section about case insensitivity in tag names and attribute names" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0267.html>
  93. # [11:07] * Quits: webben (benh@217.12.14.240) (Quit: leaving)
  94. # [11:07] * Joins: webben (benh@217.12.14.240)
  95. # [11:07] * Quits: webben (benh@217.12.14.240) (Quit: leaving)
  96. # [11:10] * Joins: webben (benh@217.12.14.240)
  97. # [11:57] * Quits: webben (benh@217.12.14.240) (Ping timeout)
  98. # [11:57] * Quits: Sander (svl@86.87.68.167) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  99. # [12:09] * Joins: webben (benh@217.12.14.241)
  100. # [12:12] * Joins: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58)
  101. # [12:30] * Quits: webben (benh@217.12.14.241) (Ping timeout)
  102. # [12:30] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: markup fixes (whatwg r3512) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0269.html>
  103. # [12:33] * Joins: webben (benh@217.12.14.241)
  104. # [13:00] <pimpbot> planet: Microdata (part 1) <http://blog.whatwg.org/microdata1>
  105. # [13:11] * Quits: webben (benh@217.12.14.241) (Ping timeout)
  106. # [13:30] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7179] New: <xmp> should close <p> (does in IE and WebKit) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Jul/0079.html>
  107. # [13:53] * Joins: anne (annevk@83.85.115.44)
  108. # [14:00] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7179] <xmp> should close <p> (does in IE and WebKit) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Jul/0080.html>
  109. # [14:46] * Joins: webben (benh@217.12.14.240)
  110. # [14:47] * Quits: tlr (tlr@128.30.52.30) (Quit: tlr)
  111. # [15:07] * Quits: webben (benh@217.12.14.240) (Ping timeout)
  112. # [15:11] * Joins: webben (benh@217.12.14.241)
  113. # [15:11] * Joins: myakura (myakura@114.163.222.21)
  114. # [15:24] * Joins: maddiin (mc@87.185.207.71)
  115. # [15:29] * Quits: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@118.15.79.149) (Ping timeout)
  116. # [15:31] <pimpbot> changes: annevk: add a section on attributes that are 'changed'; mention processing instructions as SGML feature; mention microdata attributes <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0270.html>
  117. # [15:32] * Joins: rubys (rubys@67.129.38.132)
  118. # [15:50] * Joins: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@118.15.79.149)
  119. # [15:53] * Parts: rubys (rubys@67.129.38.132)
  120. # [16:20] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190)
  121. # [16:26] * Joins: aroben (aroben@71.58.77.15)
  122. # [16:49] * Joins: gsnedders_ (gsnedders@83.252.196.86)
  123. # [17:12] * Quits: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@118.15.79.149) (Ping timeout)
  124. # [17:23] * Quits: webben (benh@217.12.14.241) (Ping timeout)
  125. # [17:26] * Joins: webben (benh@217.12.14.241)
  126. # [17:26] * Joins: Shunsuke (Shunsuke@118.15.79.149)
  127. # [17:42] <anne> I cannot believe how much time Leif is wasting over such a non-issue
  128. # [17:42] * anne sighs
  129. # [17:44] * Quits: webben (benh@217.12.14.241) (Ping timeout)
  130. # [17:53] * Joins: J_Voracek (irchon@207.118.12.212)
  131. # [17:54] * Quits: J_Voracek (irchon@207.118.12.212) (Client exited)
  132. # [18:00] <takkaria> hmm, I'm not at all sure that ignoring something ever counts as supporting it
  133. # [18:02] <anne> I initially thought of addressing all the misguided crap in there, but it is just not worth my time
  134. # [18:02] <anne> It's like this mookid disaster
  135. # [18:03] <anne> If neither proposal works and he doesn't come up with something simple that looks acceptable I'll just leave the document alone for a while
  136. # [18:03] <anne> I don't really care about it. I mostly update it as a courtesy
  137. # [18:07] * Quits: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.22) (Quit: Marcos)
  138. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> anne: fwiw, I think that document is fairly valuable and I appreciate you taking time to maintain it. It's a very good starting point for normal people who want to learn about HTML5.
  139. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> and I admire your patience with dude
  140. # [18:33] <pimpbot> changes: "mike: pull upstream schema change that adds all global event-handler attributes, as well as those specific to the <body> element" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0273.html> ** annevk: small SGML feature change; adding links to HTML4 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0271.html>
  141. # [18:37] <anne> looking at your draft I realize we have a lot of datatypes :)
  142. # [18:50] * Parts: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44)
  143. # [18:52] * Joins: adele (adele@17.246.19.228)
  144. # [18:56] <MikeSmith> anne: indeed
  145. # [18:57] <MikeSmith> and also lots of code in v.nu for doing the datatype-checking for them
  146. # [19:04] <anne> It's a rather interesting library to write I think
  147. # [19:04] <anne> though in some cases probably fairly complex
  148. # [19:18] * Joins: Marcos (Marcos@213.236.208.22)
  149. # [19:39] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  150. # [19:57] <MikeSmith> hmm, if I want to have a [CSS] citation and have the associated item in the References section point to a single document, what document do I point to?
  151. # [19:59] <MikeSmith> nm
  152. # [19:59] <anne> beijing?
  153. # [19:59] <MikeSmith> ?
  154. # [19:59] <anne> http://www.w3.org/TR/css-beijing/
  155. # [19:59] <pimpbot> Title: Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) Snapshot 2007 (at www.w3.org)
  156. # [19:59] <MikeSmith> I guess it necessarily needs to be CSS 2.1
  157. # [20:00] * anne was not joking :)
  158. # [20:00] * MikeSmith looks
  159. # [20:00] <MikeSmith> anne: why "beijing"?
  160. # [20:00] <MikeSmith> why'd they pick that word?
  161. # [20:00] <anne> I think it was decided there
  162. # [20:00] <MikeSmith> ah
  163. # [20:01] <MikeSmith> OK, I'll use that -- thanks
  164. # [20:02] <Philip> It's like a travel diary, but encoded in URLs
  165. # [20:04] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.240)
  166. # [20:13] * Quits: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.73) (Ping timeout)
  167. # [20:15] <takkaria> like a really dry travel diary
  168. # [20:18] * Joins: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.73)
  169. # [20:28] * Quits: Lachy (Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (Quit: Leaving)
  170. # [20:40] * Quits: myakura (myakura@114.163.222.21) (Quit: Leaving...)
  171. # [20:57] * Joins: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44)
  172. # [21:16] * Quits: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169) (Client exited)
  173. # [21:16] * Quits: aroben (aroben@71.58.77.15) (Connection reset by peer)
  174. # [21:16] * Joins: gavin_ (gavin@63.245.208.169)
  175. # [21:16] * Joins: aroben (aroben@71.58.77.15)
  176. # [21:32] * Parts: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44)
  177. # [22:00] * Quits: aroben (aroben@71.58.77.15) (Connection reset by peer)
  178. # [22:03] * Joins: annevk (opera@83.85.115.44)
  179. # [22:04] <pimpbot> changes: mike: added descriptions for global attributes that were missing them <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Jul/0274.html>
  180. # [22:06] * Joins: ROBOd2 (robod@89.122.216.38)
  181. # [22:08] * Quits: ROBOd (robod@89.122.216.38) (Ping timeout)
  182. # [22:51] * Quits: ROBOd2 (robod@89.122.216.38) (Quit: http://www.robodesign.ro )
  183. # [23:17] * Joins: tH (Rob@82.4.89.172)
  184. # [23:34] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7183] New: Hum, ham eu acho que... sei, bom, acho que é isso mesmo, meu comentario é: ronaldo! <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Jul/0081.html>
  185. # [23:42] <annevk> hmm, confused Portugese
  186. # [23:42] * annevk wonders what the success rate of this new feature is
  187. # [23:43] <gsnedders_> annevk: Low enough for you to manage to find bogus bugs to read until your birthday, I think.
  188. # [23:43] <gsnedders_> :P
  189. # Session Close: Sat Aug 01 00:00:00 2009

The end :)