/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-08-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Aug 08 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  5. # [00:50] <pimpbot> planet: HTML5 AppCache in UIWebView <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1247264/html5-appcache-in-uiwebview>
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  14. # [02:51] <pimpbot> changes: "hixie: Update to latest Web IDL. (whatwg r3556)" (5 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0070.html>
  15. # [03:21] <pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 7224] Crash in application C++ exception Unsupported file format header 46466c17" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0046.html> ** [Bug 7225] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7224 <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0044.html> ** [Bug 7226] has enabled --> have enabled <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009
  16. # [03:21] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: HTMLInputElement.files should return the same object until the list changes. (bug 7229) (whatwg r3558) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0072.html> ** hixie: Allow location.replace() to be accessed cross-origin too. (whatwg r3557) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0071.html>
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  18. # [03:51] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7079] Inconsistency in algorithm descriptions for parsing integers <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0058.html> ** [Bug 7075] The embed element should be deprecated <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0057.html> ** [Bug 6606] generic 3rd-party <mark>, Smart Tags, and Activities prevention <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0056.html>
  19. # [03:51] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Ensure 'object' doesn't clash with WebIDL (whatwg r3563) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0077.html> ** hixie: Rename 'CDATA' to 'Raw Text' to avoid confusing it with CDATA sections. (bug 6689) (whatwg r3562) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0076.html> ** hixie: Typo (bug 7214) (whatwg r3561) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0075.html>
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  21. # [04:21] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7186] oppo n iuniu in niun iun lin in liunniuniuniun i <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0060.html> ** [Bug 7080] Grammatical error in DOM trees section <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0059.html>
  22. # [04:21] <Dashiva> So now cats are reporting bugs?
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  29. # [09:21] <anne> hmm, someone gave me editbugs
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  31. # [09:22] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7215] character encodings and XML <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0061.html>
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  35. # [10:22] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Make document.title safe from synchronous mutation events. (whatwg r3566) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0080.html> ** hixie: Clarify how events propagate to Window. (whatwg r3565) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0079.html> ** hixie: Make innerHTML, outerHTML, and insertAdjacentHTML() trigger mutation events as if a DocumentFragment had been inserted. (whatwg r3564)
  36. # [10:53] <pimpbot> changes: "hixie: Clean up some references in preparation for actually having a references section. (whatwg r3567)" (5 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0085.html>
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  50. # [15:54] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7062] replace terms "CDATA element" and "RCDATA element" with... something better <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0062.html>
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  52. # [16:24] <pimpbot> changes: "mike: unwound the <iframe> content-model change; made some other refinements to Syntax section" (2 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0087.html>
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  54. # [16:54] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7245] New: canvas <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0063.html>
  55. # [16:59] <Philip> I'm glad we've got this new easy-to-use bug reporting system
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  57. # [17:59] <Dashiva> I see Hixie makes comments on some of them, will people ever see those comments? Do they even know where to look to follow up their own bug report?
  58. # [18:09] <MikeSmith> dunno if people will know where to look for the responses, but regardless it is good to have a response on record, at least
  59. # [18:11] <MikeSmith> btw, I tried to set it up so that notification about bugs would not get mailed to the bug-notification list (and to this channel) until they get confirmed, but it seems to send them regardless
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  63. # [19:02] <pimpbot> planet: Beyond XHTML <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/08/08/Beyond-XHTML>
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  67. # [19:30] <Dashiva> Oh, who taught Garrett about formal objections?
  68. # [19:32] <annevk> dunno, but he wasn't taught well
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  72. # [21:25] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7062] replace terms "CDATA element" and "RCDATA element" with... something better <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0064.html>
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  78. # [23:08] * Joins: rubys1 (rubys@98.27.52.152)
  79. # [23:09] <rubys1> mjs: can you explain what you meant by "this version of HTML5"?
  80. # [23:09] <mjs> rubys1: I mean the next one being HTML6 or HTML5.1 or whatever
  81. # [23:10] <rubys1> ok, cool
  82. # [23:11] <mjs> rubys1: in other words, I think <datagrid> is not right as it until recently was specified, and there is no time left to redesign it in the HTML5 cycle, but I'd like to see the feature come back in better form in a later version of HTML
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  84. # [23:11] <rubys1> understood
  85. # [23:12] <rubys1> http://tinyurl.com/nw653o
  86. # [23:12] <pimpbot> Title: HTML5 Live DOM Viewer (at tinyurl.com)
  87. # [23:13] <rubys1> I'm curious about things like how we can enable things like HTML5.next given how much HTML5 nails down the parsing rules.
  88. # [23:14] <Hixie> we just change the parsing rules
  89. # [23:14] <rubys1> can't that break the web?
  90. # [23:14] <mjs> I think there's two cases:
  91. # [23:14] <Hixie> sure, you have to do it carefully
  92. # [23:14] <Hixie> it's exactly like the html4-5 transition
  93. # [23:14] <mjs> 1) anything that we want to be parsed in the same way that an unknown element is parsed in HTML5 will work fine
  94. # [23:15] <Hixie> the rules were nailed down for html4 too, it just wasn't written anywhere
  95. # [23:15] <mjs> 2) anything that needs to be parsed differently, we need to do everything we can to verify that content doesn't depend on the behavior when treated as an unknown element
  96. # [23:15] <rubys1> there was a wide variety of implementations on html4
  97. # [23:15] <rubys1> mjs: did you see my link?
  98. # [23:16] <rubys1> first bar is inside of datagrid, second one is outside
  99. # [23:16] <Hixie> rubys1: not anywhere near as wide as you might think
  100. # [23:16] <mjs> rubys1: I did, and I expect you were making a point, but I did not get what the point was (likely my lack of imagination)
  101. # [23:17] <rubys1> I don't believe that #1 is the case.
  102. # [23:17] <mjs> I don't follow the logic..
  103. # [23:18] <mjs> are you saying this behavior for unknown elements would not ever be acceptable for a real element?
  104. # [23:18] <mjs> (in the face of unclosed tags, may I add)
  105. # [23:19] <rubys1> Let's compromise :-) How about s/not ever/unlikely to/
  106. # [23:19] <Dashiva> How is it unacceptable in your example?
  107. # [23:20] <mjs> I believe what's happening is that <zetagrid> is never closed, due to the lack of a close tag for <p>
  108. # [23:20] <rubys1> but datagrid is closed by </datagrid>....
  109. # [23:20] <rubys1> I claim that people have an unfortunate tendency to forget to correctly close tags. I think I can back that up with evidence.
  110. # [23:21] <mjs> indeed, so datagrid doesn'
  111. # [23:21] <mjs> t parse the same as an unknown element
  112. # [23:21] <mjs> <span> parses the same as an unknown element (IIRC)
  113. # [23:22] <rubys1> nope
  114. # [23:22] <rubys1> try <span><z>x</span><bar>
  115. # [23:22] <Hixie> a whole bunch of elements in html5 parse like unknown elements according to the HTML5 parsing rules
  116. # [23:22] <Lachy> that's weird, why is there a difference between <datagrid> and <zetagrid>? Aren't both unknown elements in existing browsers?
  117. # [23:23] <rubys1> Lachy: HTML5 Live DOM Viewer
  118. # [23:23] <rubys1> (Validator.nu)
  119. # [23:23] <Lachy> oh
  120. # [23:23] <mjs> rubys1: if I replace zetagrid in your example with span, the parse tree is the same
  121. # [23:23] <Lachy> assumed I was looking at the normal live dom viewer
  122. # [23:23] <mjs> rubys1: if I replace span with zetagrid in your second example, the parse tree is the same
  123. # [23:23] <Hixie> Lachy: you were phished!
  124. # [23:23] <Dashiva> I wonder how long until there's a formal objection to "an end tag whose tag name is sarcasm"
  125. # [23:25] <rubys1> ok, I see... picking <p> was unfortunate.
  126. # [23:25] <mjs> yes, some elements are supposed to have <p>-closing behavior that <span> and random unknown elements do not
  127. # [23:30] <Dashiva> Making the list of p-closing elements separate from the specification would probably be a lot of work for little gain too
  128. # [23:31] <annevk> all compat problems Opera has had so far has been with attributes, not new elements
  129. # [23:32] <annevk> (including <event-source>, <output>, <datalist>)
  130. # [23:32] <annevk> have been*
  131. # [23:33] <Lachy> Hixie, did the issues graph ever function in Opera before you added the labels earlier today?
  132. # [23:33] <annevk> yeah
  133. # [23:34] <Dashiva> Does it use the canvas text apis, maybe?
  134. # [23:34] <Lachy> ok. I was trying to modify it to make it work in Opera by checking if the canvas text was supported or not before attempting to use it, but I can't get it to work
  135. # [23:34] <Lachy> Dashiva, yes
  136. # [23:34] <Lachy> Hixie, do you have a copy of it that works from before you added that stuff, so I can compare the two and see what changes you actually made?
  137. # [23:35] <Lachy> that would help me figure out what's wrong
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  139. # [23:50] <Hixie> Lachy: i just removed all the checks for whether the text api is supported
  140. # [23:51] <Hixie> Lachy: (since i'd added code that relied on the text api without testing if it was supported, and it was easier to just take out all the checks than try to add more checks in)
  141. # [23:51] <Hixie> surely everyone supports the text apis by now
  142. # [23:51] <Hixie> i don't have an old copy handy
  143. # [23:52] <Dashiva> Lachy: Did you handle the call to measureText too?
  144. # [23:59] <annevk> someone who cares and follows the WS URL scheme debate should point out that if there's any renaming new names for both schemes need to be considered
  145. # Session Close: Sun Aug 09 00:00:00 2009

The end :)