/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-08-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Aug 23 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  7. # [01:44] <pimpbot> planet: Maxwell's Silver Hammer: RDFa and HTML5's Microdata <http://realtech.burningbird.net/semantic-web/rdf-and-rdfa/rdfa-and-html5s-maxwells-silver-hammer> ** HTML5: A Story in Progress <http://realtech.burningbird.net/html5-story-progress>
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  21. # [10:04] <jgraham> Are we seriously expecting to get a full proposal for canvas accessibility apis by last call? That sounds like a disster waiting to happen.
  22. # [10:04] <jgraham> *disaster
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  25. # [10:05] <jgraham> If the options are a) split out canvas or b) delay LC untill we have a canvas accessibility api, a) seems by far the preferable option
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  27. # [10:06] <Hixie> jgraham: from what i understand, the people who met about it basically concluded that aria used on the fallback is a fine solution
  28. # [10:07] <Hixie> (which of course is what the spec has said for ages)
  29. # [10:07] <jgraham> Yeah I didn't realy understand that because when it was discussed here it seemed like a much harder problem than than
  30. # [10:08] <jgraham> *than that
  31. # [10:09] <Hixie> that discussion was about exposing focusable areas
  32. # [10:09] <Hixie> in the canvas itself
  33. # [10:10] <jgraham> Hixie: On a slightly different topic, do you have any in principle objection to adding the static status markers to the W3C version of the spec
  34. # [10:12] <Hixie> not at all
  35. # [10:14] <jgraham> Great. I guess I should send mail to the list. Would you prefer to run the script that combines the open tracker issues into the annotations document locally or as a web service?
  36. # [10:15] <jgraham> s/list/list suggesting it/ or so
  37. # [10:15] <Hixie> web service please
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  39. # [10:15] <jgraham> OK, I guessed that. I will set something up :)
  40. # [10:16] <Hixie> :-)
  41. # [10:18] <mjs> jgraham: I think the changes to the spec will be minor
  42. # [10:18] <mjs> jgraham: now that one of the main people involved in producing a proposal is me, I think the odds of it being off the deep end are low
  43. # [10:19] <mjs> incidentally, think having a requirement that non-rendered children of the canvas with a tabindex attribute must participate in the tab cycle and get focus events would solve the focus issue
  44. # [10:19] <mjs> still need to try out whether this is workable for some real canvas content
  45. # [10:20] <mjs> jgraham: also - are you going to add the issue markers too? at this point, I don't think it would hurt to add every W3C issue, since the total number of them is not inordinate and seems to be shrinking
  46. # [10:21] <Hixie> making display:none content participate in the tab order is going to be a pain
  47. # [10:21] <mjs> spec-wise or implementation-wise?
  48. # [10:21] <Hixie> wait
  49. # [10:21] <Hixie> it's not display:none
  50. # [10:22] <Hixie> it should already be in the tab order, i think
  51. # [10:22] <Hixie> spec-wise
  52. # [10:23] <Hixie> oh, no
  53. # [10:23] <Hixie> i just need to change "but only if the element is being rendered" to something about canvases
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  55. # [10:31] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7404] New: "but only if the element is being rendered" needs to take into account <canvas> descendants if we're making them focusable <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0263.html>
  56. # [10:38] <jgraham> mjs vanished :(
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  58. # [10:41] <mjs> jgraham: yeah, my internet is sucking tonight
  59. # [10:41] <mjs> I saw Hixie's remarks though
  60. # [10:42] <mjs> Hixie: anyway, I'm not totally sure this is a sensible way to go, need to work through a few examples
  61. # [10:49] <jgraham> mjs: Re: issue markers, I have added all of the ones in the OPEN/RAISED states
  62. # [10:51] <mjs> jgraham: I'm personally not sure which way PENDING REVIEW should go, but there's only one such issue currently and no obvious place to mark it
  63. # [10:51] <Hixie> btw if we're showing issue markers, it'd be far more useful to show the markers for issues in bugzilla or in my imap folders, rather than the issue tracker
  64. # [10:52] <Hixie> given what a mess the latter is
  65. # [10:53] <jgraham> Hixie: I see it as an incentive to keep the tracker up to date
  66. # [10:54] <Hixie> how so?
  67. # [10:56] <jgraham> Because one of the problems with the traker is that it has basically been considered write-only untill now. But afaict the W3C position is that we have to drive the number of tracker issues to 0 by Last Call so highlighting where there are issues and where the open issues are incongrous with the stability of the section seems helpful in achieving that
  68. # [10:57] <mjs> jgraham: the people who need to feel more urgency in managing the issues list are the Chairs
  69. # [10:57] <mjs> jgraham: I don't think in-spec issue markers will have much effect one way or the other on that
  70. # [10:57] <jgraham> mjs: Maybe not.
  71. # [10:58] <mjs> otoh it is the position of the chairs (and I guess the W3C) that the issues list does need to be managed to 0, so issue markers would accurately reflect w3c blockers to Last Call
  72. # [10:58] <mjs> I don't believe the chairs consider bugzilla bugs to be a hard blocker for instance, though that list seems much more actively managed
  73. # [10:59] <jgraham> That is my impression too.
  74. # [11:01] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Tidy up the microdata section in preparation of defining some variants for usability testing (see mail to whatwg list); disallow straight identifiers in this version altogether. (whatwg r3662) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0211.html>
  75. # [11:01] <jgraham> I think that in sections like #video a presentation that shows that the text is considered stable but that there are three open issues does highlight that something is wrong
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  77. # [11:03] <mjs> jgraham: well, at least I managed to close the "should video even exist" issue
  78. # [11:04] <mjs> jgraham: I still have not seen the reason someone objected to ISSUE-9 being closed
  79. # [11:04] <mjs> maybe I should propose it to be closed again
  80. # [11:05] <jgraham> Realistically ISSUE-7 can't block last call
  81. # [11:05] <jgraham> Or we my potentially never go to LC
  82. # [11:07] <Hixie> i wonder what would happy if i raised an objection like "we shouldn't allow slashes in void tags" and got an issue tracker issue filed for it
  83. # [11:07] <Hixie> and then refused to accept it being closed
  84. # [11:07] <jgraham> I assume at some point we would have to have a vote
  85. # [11:08] <Hixie> so you're saying there's a chance i could get that decision overturned? oooooh!
  86. # [11:08] <Hixie> i should do that then
  87. # [11:08] <Hixie> i wonder what other things i could get changed without data
  88. # [11:09] <Hixie> all the times i've had to make the spec disagree with what i want due to not being able to back up my position
  89. # [11:10] <jgraham> I suppose if it was clear that no one agreed with your position someone could declre consensus without a vote
  90. # [11:11] <Hixie> neither of our chairs seem predisposed to making any sort of decisions
  91. # [11:11] <Hixie> so i doubt that would happen
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  93. # [11:31] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Mention that microdata does not imply a relationship with the document's contents. (whatwg r3663) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0212.html>
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  95. # [11:35] <mjs> jgraham: so far I haven't seen the chairs inclined to deny solo objectors
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  101. # [14:51] <jgraham> Hixie: http://pimpmyspec.net/aquarium.py/annotations/output?spec_status=WD&annotations_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whatwg.org%2Fspecs%2Fweb-apps%2Fcurrent-work%2Fstatus.cgi%3Faction%3Dget-all-annotations&tracker_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fhtml%2Fwg%2Ftracker%2F
  102. # [14:52] <jgraham> Should give you a fresh annotations file from whatwg.org plus the current issues for the issue tracker
  103. # [14:54] <jgraham> if you add annotation={the url above} and annotate_w3c_issues=on to your pms.net query string you shuld get the the status markers and issue boxes
  104. # [14:55] <jgraham> (the curly braces are of course not literals)
  105. # [14:55] <jgraham> Work it out from the form on http://pimpmyspec.net if I ahven't been clear enough
  106. # [14:55] <pimpbot> Title: Pimp My Spec (at pimpmyspec.net)
  107. # [15:34] <gsnedders> (Also bare in mind the other things you currently set)
  108. # [15:34] <gsnedders> *bear
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  114. # [18:49] <pimpbot> planet: HTML 5 <video> - webcam integration? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1318834/html-5-video-webcam-integration>
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  121. # Session Close: Mon Aug 24 00:00:01 2009

The end :)