/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-08-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Aug 24 00:00:01 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  16. # [02:35] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7405] New: Looks good! <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0264.html>
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  23. # [05:35] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7406] Layout system for HTML <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0266.html> ** [Bug 7406] New: Layout system for HTML <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0265.html>
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  30. # [07:36] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7407] New: "The examples in the previous section show how information could be marked up on a page that doesn't expect its microdata to be re-used." is not true anymore <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0267.html>
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  32. # [08:36] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7408] New: "This sample how the getItems() method" is missing a "shows". <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0271.html> ** [Bug 7398] the-basic-syntax <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0270.html> ** [Bug 7401] Looking For this <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0269.html> ** [Bug 7405] Looks good! <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/
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  37. # [10:06] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7407] "The examples in the previous section show how information could be marked up on a page that doesn't expect its microdata to be re-used." is not true anymore <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0273.html> ** [Bug 7408] "This sample how the getItems() method" is missing a "shows". <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0272.html>
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  42. # [10:37] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Rather than having such a minor variant, just make the item='' property always have a single type, and remove all the multitype features. (whatwg r3665) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0213.html>
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  46. # [11:07] <pimpbot> changes: hixie: Clarify exactly when you can use short unregistered identifiers in microdata. (whatwg r3666) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0214.html>
  47. # [12:07] <pimpbot> changes: "hixie: Add automated status annotations to W3C version of the spec." (6 messages in thread) <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0220.html>
  48. # [12:37] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 7409] New: It's not clear what labeled control is in cases with > 1 control as a child of the <label> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Aug/0274.html>
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  63. # [13:53] <pimpbot> planet: SVG Open 2009: SVG Coming of Age <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ajaxian/~3/uQXogaIccAk/svg-open-2009-svg-coming-of-age>
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  66. # [14:01] <hsivonen> Did we already publish a WD snapshot?
  67. # [14:01] <hsivonen> if not, I wonder if the chairs would approve using a snapshot that has the status markers even though they weren't present at the time of the vote
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  71. # [14:07] <Lachy> hsivonen, which version of the spec has new status markers?
  72. # [14:09] <gsnedders|work> Lachy: W3C
  73. # [14:10] <hsivonen> Lachy: see for example http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#video
  74. # [14:10] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)
  75. # [14:10] <Lachy> gsnedders|work, I just checked there, didn't see them
  76. # [14:11] <Lachy> hmm, must have loaded a cached version before
  77. # [14:13] <myakura> it seems multiple version doesn't have them.
  78. # [14:13] <gsnedders|work> I don't; think that's up to date
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  81. # [14:17] <Lachy> aargh! Damn lag! Some of my messages aren't getting through and I'm having trouble staying connected today :-(
  82. # [14:18] <gsnedders|work> Awww, poor little Lachy
  83. # [14:21] * rubys loves the new status markers
  84. # [14:23] <anne2> hsivonen, pubdata is tomorrow
  85. # [14:23] * anne2 needs to fix html5-diff but is low on sleep
  86. # [14:24] * anne2 expected to sleep more than an hour
  87. # [14:28] <MikeSmith> anne2: I can deal with it if you want
  88. # [14:30] <Lachy> MikeSmith, rubys, when will the new WD finally be getting published?
  89. # [14:30] <MikeSmith> tomorrow
  90. # [14:32] <anne2> MikeSmith, how long are you still awake for?
  91. # [14:32] <Lachy> are you going to publish the draft with the new status markers, or an older snapshot?
  92. # [14:32] <anne2> MikeSmith, I'd like to take a stab at it now and see how far I get
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  95. # [14:41] <MikeSmith> anne2: OK
  96. # [14:45] <MikeSmith> Lachy: I would suggest that we publish with the status markers
  97. # [14:46] <rubys> jgraham: contrary to my previous suggestion (using 3.2.1 for issue 41), I now think that section 2.2.2 is a better fit.
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  99. # [14:47] <rubys> I take it that Ian would not be opposed to publishing with these particular status markers? I see his post of a few hours ago, but I would prefer a more direct confirmation.
  100. # [14:48] <gsnedders|work> rubys: He did actually have to change stuff to get them in the spec, so I'd take it as a yes
  101. # [14:49] <rubys> I've been burned by making assumption about what Ian might think based on what he does, so I'd rather double check.
  102. # [14:50] <anne2> you'd have to wait about 6 to 10 hours for that methinks
  103. # [14:50] <jgraham> rubys: You should be able to add/change the sections using tracker
  104. # [14:51] <rubys> Oh: "HTML5-SPEC-SECTIONS [semantics-0]"... sweet!
  105. # [14:51] <rubys> what's the grammar?
  106. # [14:52] <rubys> I presume that you can list multiple sections? Separated by spaces, commas, ... or ?
  107. # [14:52] <jgraham> space-seperated
  108. # [14:52] <Lachy> rubys, see jgraham's mail about it
  109. # [14:52] <Lachy> he described it as space separated list already
  110. # [14:53] <rubys> where is this described?
  111. # [14:54] <jgraham> rubys: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Aug/1188.html
  112. # [14:54] <pimpbot> Title: Re: Spec with issue markers [was: Re: HTML5-warnings - request to publish as next heartbeat WD] from James Graham on 2009-08-24 (public-html@w3.org from August 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  113. # [14:54] <rubys> OK, I made the change, but it doesn't seem to be immediately online. Is this a matter of a cron job or the like?
  114. # [14:54] <hsivonen> rubys: I'd expect the markers to update when Hixie makes an edit
  115. # [14:54] <rubys> or the next time a draft is pushed out?
  116. # [14:54] <rubys> ah, makes sense.
  117. # [14:54] <jgraham> rubys: It is a matter of the spen being regenned
  118. # [14:55] <rubys> and given that the spec tends to be updated one or more times a day, that's quite sufficient.
  119. # [14:56] <jgraham> rubys: You can sort of check that it worked by going to http://pimpmyspec.net/aquarium.py/annotations/output?spec_status=WD&annotations_url=http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/status.cgi%3Faction%3Dget-all-annotations&tracker_url=http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/
  120. # [14:56] <jgraham> and looking for your issue
  121. # [14:56] <jgraham> (sorry that URL is so long)
  122. # [14:57] <jgraham> (I see ISSUE-41 listed in the extensibility section so it seems to have worked)
  123. # [14:58] <rubys> It is in both places, which is probably overkill, but I simply wanted to see how this worked. I very much like this.
  124. # [14:59] <rubys> if we get a positive confirmation by Ian, I'm inclined to agree with Mike that this information should be included.
  125. # [15:00] <Julian> yes, this is great
  126. # [15:01] <Julian> thanks to James, Maciej, Ian and also Manu to get us here
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  135. # [15:40] <anne2> Lazy Web Request: review http://dev.w3.org/html5/html4-differences/
  136. # [15:40] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 differences from HTML 4 (at dev.w3.org)
  137. # [15:46] <hsivonen> anne2: 1.1 Open Issues could use some re-checking in the light of Maciej's recent emails
  138. # [15:46] <hsivonen> anne2: now that ARIA is in, longdesc's absence isn't controversial per WAI CG's consensus
  139. # [16:08] <pimpbot> changes: annevk: 200 changes to the HTML 5 repository later it has been decided to publish something <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2009Aug/0221.html>
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  145. # [16:20] <DanC> I might be losing track of some of the "suggest closing" issues... checking to see that I don't need to ping anybody else about any of them...
  146. # [16:21] <DanC> who has the ball on SMIL coordination? ah...
  147. # [16:21] <DanC> ACTION-135?
  148. # [16:21] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-135
  149. # [16:21] <trackbot> ACTION-135 -- Michael(tm) Smith to seek review from Dick Bulterman -- due 2009-08-27 -- OPEN
  150. # [16:21] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/135
  151. # [16:21] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-135 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  152. # [16:21] <DanC> hmm... when is dick back?
  153. # [16:22] <DanC> ok... "I'll send off comments at the beginning of the week of 24 August."
  154. # [16:23] <DanC> issue-11?
  155. # [16:23] * trackbot getting information on ISSUE-11
  156. # [16:23] <trackbot> ISSUE-11 -- default character encoding -- RAISED
  157. # [16:23] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/11
  158. # [16:23] <pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-11 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  159. # [16:23] <DanC> that seems to have fallen into the someday pile; doesn't look like anybody picked up a ball
  160. # [16:27] <DanC> I18N WG chair is engaged. I guess that's good enough.
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  184. # [18:56] <pimpbot> planet: Get Your SVG On: The SVG Open 2009 Conference At Google <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/blogspot/Dcni/~3/RrrjDWVIfb4/get-your-svg-on-svg-open-2009.html>
  185. # [18:59] * MikeSmith is now known as MikeSmith^away
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  187. # [19:56] <pimpbot> planet: jQuery Core/Data or Custom Attributes(Data-Driven) <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1323487/jquery-core-data-or-custom-attributesdata-driven>
  188. # [20:05] * Quits: rubys (rubys@98.27.52.152) (Quit: Leaving.)
  189. # [20:09] * DanC catches up on "Spec with issue markers " thread; enjoys browsing http://hg.hoppipolla.co.uk/anolis/
  190. # [20:09] <pimpbot> Title: anolis: shortlog (at hg.hoppipolla.co.uk)
  191. # [20:21] * gsnedders wonders what's enjoyable about his first ever Python program
  192. # [20:22] <DanC> it's interesting to see how it developed
  193. # [20:22] <DanC> I also have a preference for hg over git, so any time somebody else chooses hg over git, it makes me happy
  194. # [20:22] <gsnedders> hehe
  195. # [20:23] <DanC> I get "bad gateway" at http://bugs.gsnedders.com/projects/show/anolis . known problem?
  196. # [20:23] <gsnedders> yeahyeah…
  197. # [20:23] <gsnedders> Every time I fixed it it'd be broken within another day or two
  198. # [20:23] <gsnedders> I've given up basically :(
  199. # [20:24] <DanC> fair enough
  200. # [20:24] <gsnedders> (The bug tracker is now called gsnedders' inbox)
  201. # [20:24] <DanC> tried and true
  202. # [20:25] <DanC> I'm looking at building a static author's view of the html 5 spec, i.e. without the implementation details
  203. # [20:25] <gsnedders> jgraham started doing stuff with that
  204. # [20:25] <gsnedders> like http://hg.hoppipolla.co.uk/hgwebdir.cgi/anolis/rev/cb3197068bad
  205. # [20:25] <pimpbot> Title: anolis: changeset cb3197068bad (at hg.hoppipolla.co.uk)
  206. # [20:25] <gsnedders> I guess --filter=.impl should work
  207. # [20:26] <DanC> ah... lxml to the rescue again... it has css selector support
  208. # [20:26] <jgraham> Yes it should.
  209. # [20:26] <gsnedders> DanC: By compiling to XPath :)
  210. # [20:27] * DanC sets about trying to get it to work on his machine...
  211. # [20:28] * DanC grabs webapps r3666
  212. # [20:29] <gsnedders> jgraham: I guess you have just under three weeks to get me to pull it in before I start changing stuff in a sizable way
  213. # [20:31] * DanC curses easy_install, trying to get html5lib installed
  214. # [20:31] <jgraham> gsnedders: OK. Anything in particular you need to be happy with it
  215. # [20:31] <gsnedders> jgraham: I haven't looked :D
  216. # [20:31] <jgraham> DanC: Yes, that is broken
  217. # [20:31] <jgraham> Sorry :(
  218. # [20:32] <gsnedders> I thought my repo didn't use ezsetup any more
  219. # [20:32] * jgraham really needs to spend some time getting a release of html5lib out
  220. # [20:32] <gsnedders> Yeah, 11 days ago I removed the dep. on ezsetup
  221. # [20:32] <DanC> I thought I had html5lib checked out. oh well... grabbing it again...
  222. # [20:32] <jgraham> I probably haven't synced in the least 11 days
  223. # [20:32] <gsnedders> DanC: Oh, you can't use the latest revision of html5lib
  224. # [20:33] <DanC> ooh! html5lib has gone to hg too. happy happy joy joy
  225. # [20:33] <jgraham> gsnedders: Why not?
  226. # [20:33] <gsnedders> jgraham: NS
  227. # [20:33] <jgraham> Does anolis care?
  228. # [20:33] <DanC> what version do you recommend?
  229. # [20:33] <jgraham> DanC: I recommend using the latest version but using --parser=lxml.html
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  231. # [20:34] <jgraham> or wahtever the option is called
  232. # [20:34] <gsnedders> That'll work
  233. # [20:34] <jgraham> (html5lib will still be used for output)
  234. # [20:34] <jgraham> (it will also be much faster)
  235. # [20:34] <gsnedders> jgraham: Because of fe8b06c2bd it won't work
  236. # [20:35] <DanC> hmm... when I try "~/src/html5lib/python$ python setup.py --prefix=~ install" I get "error: option --prefix not recognized"
  237. # [20:35] <gsnedders> It needs to be after install
  238. # [20:36] <DanC> ugh... same spew as with easy_install.
  239. # [20:36] <DanC> TEST FAILED: /home/connolly/lib/python2.6/site-packages/ does NOT support .pth files
  240. # [20:37] * DanC can't believe python installation is still this screwed up after ... what... a decade?
  241. # [20:37] <gsnedders> Well, it seems nicer than PHP…
  242. # [20:38] <DanC> aha... my PYTHONPATH was wrong.
  243. # [20:38] * jgraham has used virtualenv once and found that it helped a lot alhough it does operate in a rather python-sentric way
  244. # [20:39] <jgraham> *centric
  245. # [20:39] <DanC> whee! it seems to be working:
  246. # [20:39] <DanC> connolly@pav:~/projects/html5-author/webapps$ ~/src/anolis/anolis --parser=lxml.html --filter=.impl source html5-author.html
  247. # [20:40] * Joins: ChrisWilson (cwilso@131.107.0.85)
  248. # [20:40] <DanC> where's the magic list of options that's used to make http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html ?
  249. # [20:40] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at dev.w3.org)
  250. # [20:40] * DanC wonders if it's in the svn stuff from whatwg.org ...
  251. # [20:41] <DanC> hmm... no Makefile at all in here.
  252. # [20:41] <jgraham> DanC: Look at the defaults on pimpmyspec.net
  253. # [20:43] <DanC> ok, I will... but... doesn't hixie have a makefile somewhere? does he keep it outside the svn stuff?
  254. # [20:43] <gsnedders> DanC: His script that does everything does a lot, is specific to the filepaths on his server, and contains passwords
  255. # [20:43] <DanC> hmm
  256. # [20:44] <DanC> I usually handle that with: make PASSWD=xyzpdq
  257. # [20:44] <DanC> but oh well
  258. # [20:44] <Philip> Not good on a shared machine where anyone can see the commands you run :-)
  259. # [20:44] <gsnedders> --parser=lxml.html --omit-option-tags=on --output-encoding=ascii --w3c-compat-xref-a-placement=on
  260. # [20:44] <DanC> jgraham, I don't see the defaults. ah. thanks.
  261. # [20:45] <gsnedders> (I think)
  262. # [20:47] * Joins: maddiin (mc@87.185.240.14)
  263. # [20:50] <DanC> anolis: error: no such option: --omit-option-tags
  264. # [20:50] <gsnedders> Um, just ignore that then
  265. # [20:50] <gsnedders> It doesn't really matter anyway
  266. # [20:51] <DanC> anolis: error: --w3c-compat-xref-a-placement option does not take a value
  267. # [20:51] <gsnedders> Just ignore the value then
  268. # [20:51] * Joins: rubys1 (rubys@98.27.52.152)
  269. # [20:51] <DanC> webapps$ ~/src/anolis/anolis --parser=lxml.html --output-encoding=ascii --w3c-compat-xref-a-placement --filter=.impl source html5-author.html
  270. # [20:51] <gsnedders> (Really, it's hardly as if I wrote it or anything)
  271. # [20:52] <DanC> hmm... no title page. that gets glued on separately?
  272. # [20:52] <jgraham> yes
  273. # [20:52] <gsnedders> DanC: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/header-whatwg-html5
  274. # [20:52] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.whatwg.org)
  275. # [20:53] <gsnedders> (or header-w3c-html5)
  276. # [20:53] * DanC reads the makefile in
  277. # [20:53] <DanC> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Makefile
  278. # [20:54] <DanC> hmm... no anolis in there; I guess anolis gets run before the spec is checked in to dev.w3.org
  279. # [20:54] <gsnedders> Yup
  280. # [20:55] <DanC> wierd... internal server error at http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/tools/spec-splitter.py
  281. # [20:56] * DanC finds http://code.google.com/p/html5/source/browse/trunk/spec-splitter/spec-splitter.py
  282. # [20:56] <pimpbot> Title: spec-splitter.py - html5 - Project Hosting on Google Code (at code.google.com)
  283. # [21:02] <DanC> this is a bit of a maze of twisty passages. I suppose manu had to figure all this out... let's take a look at http://html5.digitalbazaar.com/
  284. # [21:02] <pimpbot> Title: HTML5 @ Digital Bazaar (at html5.digitalbazaar.com)
  285. # [21:03] <DanC> hmm... can't find a path to the git repository and such
  286. # [21:03] <DanC> ah. http://wiki.github.com/html5/spec
  287. # [21:03] <pimpbot> Title: Home - spec - GitHub (at wiki.github.com)
  288. # [21:03] <DanC> GNU Autoconf?!
  289. # [21:04] * DanC has so far avoided that beast
  290. # [21:04] <rubys1> jgraham: Given a checkout of anolis from hg, how does one integrate the wonderful new status indicators?
  291. # [21:09] <Hixie> damons: you're better off starting with the post-generated spec and filtering that; the mulipage splitter slits the post-generated one, that way it gets e.g. cross-references and everything automatically
  292. # [21:09] <Hixie> er
  293. # [21:09] <Hixie> s/damons/DanC/
  294. # [21:10] <Hixie> DanC: otherwise you have to worry about filtering out the other specs, doing substitution magic, then running anolis, etc etc etc
  295. # [21:10] * Joins: adele (adele@17.246.18.111)
  296. # [21:11] <DanC> I see. hmm... I was aiming to build from original source, but I suppose that's not all that important.
  297. # [21:12] <jgraham> rubys1: In addition to the usual options use --annotation=/path/or/url/to/annotations/file
  298. # [21:12] <jgraham> er --annotations
  299. # [21:12] <DanC> the post-generated spec is http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ ?
  300. # [21:12] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)
  301. # [21:13] <Hixie> .../Overview.html, iirc
  302. # [21:13] <DanC> hmm... http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/ is not multi-page
  303. # [21:13] <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 (at www.w3.org)
  304. # [21:13] <jgraham> where the annotations file is the output from pimpmyspec.net/annotations that we talked about earlier
  305. # [21:15] <jgraham> er that is the wrong url
  306. # [21:16] <jgraham> (you can also use the code at http://hg.hoppipolla.co.uk/hgwebdir.cgi/w3c_issues/ to do something similar locally and I don't think it is too hideously out of date)
  307. # [21:16] <pimpbot> Title: w3c_issues: shortlog (at hg.hoppipolla.co.uk)
  308. # [21:23] * Joins: rubys (rubys@98.27.52.152)
  309. # [21:24] <rubys1> jgraham, and use the XML file you mentioned previously as the annotations file?
  310. # [21:25] <rubys1> ah, sorry, just caught up. excellent!
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  329. # [23:09] <MikeSmith> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10316027-17.html
  330. # [23:09] <pimpbot> Title: RIM sets sights on WebKit, acquires Torch Mobile | The Digital Home - CNET News (at news.cnet.com)
  331. # [23:15] <MikeSmith> action-139?
  332. # [23:15] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-139
  333. # [23:15] <trackbot> ACTION-139 -- Manu Sporny to produce 3 separate HTML5 drafts and the external Microdata draft -- due 2009-09-18 -- OPEN
  334. # [23:15] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/139
  335. # [23:15] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-139 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
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The end :)